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theGreatRC wrote:shrink wrote:Jayu, can you rank the following 8 assets?
Trae, Collins, Reddish, Hunter, Heurter, #6 pick, 2021 ATL 1st (unprotected), 2020 #1
And do you see any variation between your order, and the order of the Hawks front office?
That sounds about right tbh
Trae
Collins
Reddish/Hunter
Huerter/#6
KGdaBom wrote:shrink wrote:jayu70 wrote:This is from last week's Q&A of a Hawks beat writer (Chris Kirschner, The Athletic, ATL):
Just an aside, but I always roll my eyes when I see a “sportswriter” add, “.. if he reaches his highest potential outcome.”
Yeah, a lot of players would be great if they did that. Jarrett Culver would be too - we better not trade him for #2!
The value of a player is based not on their highest potential outcome, but the likelihood that they maximize some of that. It is their expected value that determines their worth, not their highest potential outcome. This is not real analysis when you add that phrase, it’s fan-speak.
Edwards IMO has much more potential than Reddish. No way in hell I would give up #1 for Reddish. Reddish and #6 maybe. Hawks fans on their board have dug in on the greatness of Reddish so no deal to be had there.
jayu70 wrote:theGreatRC wrote:shrink wrote:Jayu, can you rank the following 8 assets?
Trae, Collins, Reddish, Hunter, Heurter, #6 pick, 2021 ATL 1st (unprotected), 2020 #1
And do you see any variation between your order, and the order of the Hawks front office?
That sounds about right tbh
Trae
Collins
Reddish/Hunter
Huerter/#6
Got it.
Sign5 wrote:Yea not happening, I expected a better retort but what do I expect from realgm(ers) in 2025. Just quote and state things that lack context, then repeat the same thing over and over as if something new and profound was said. Just lol.
shrink wrote:jayu70 wrote:theGreatRC wrote:
That sounds about right tbh
Trae
Collins
Reddish/Hunter
Huerter/#6
Got it.
What I was particularly interested in was where the two picks slotted.
jayu70 wrote:KGdaBom wrote:shangrila wrote:Can you elaborate on this rumour? I haven't seen it mentioned before.
I'm guessing something like Atlanta gets 8+27 from NY, we get 6 and a future pick from you/NY respectively and NY lands the 1?
Let me see if I understand you correctly. Atlanta would be giving up 6 and a future #1 to get 8 and 27? Sounds like Atlanta is getting totally hosed if they're including a future #1 that is likely to be better than the 27 pick they got for trading back from 6 to 8.
No.
Atlanta trades #6 to NYK for #8 and #27.
NYK then trade #6 and Dallas 2021 1st to Minny for #1. Minny prefers the NYK 2021 1st in lieu of the Dallas 1st.
Wolveswin wrote:If you really like someone in this draft, you won’t like this scenario. But this does accomplish making Wolves better, weakens 2 western conference teams Wolves should be able to pass in the playoff standings, while getting their 2021 1st back. Enjoy...
Jazz Give: Gobert + Bogdanovic
Jazz Get: #1 Overall + Dieng + Johnson + 2022 Warriors 1st
Jazz Reasoning: get #1 overall and expiring contracts as they build around soon to be maxed Mitchell.
Grizzlies Give: Clarke + Dieng + Winslow
Grizzlies Get: #2 Overall + Wiggins + Spellman + Looney
Grizzlies Reasoning: cash in on Clarke to get Ball or Edwards next to Morant.
Warriors Give: #2 Overall + Wiggins + Looney + 2021 Wolves 1st + 2022 1st (unprotected)
Warriors Get: Gobert + Winslow (via Iggy TPE)
Warriors Reasoning: set their lineup for championship run.
Wolves Give: #1 Overall + Johnson + Spellman
Wolves Get: Clarke + Bogdanovic + 2021 Own 1st Returned
Wolves Reasoning: is Rosas likes Clarke next to Towns and 2021 draftees better than player at top of this draft, this trade his for him. Bogdanovic is also nice starting vet for this young team.
Towns | Reid
Clarke | Hernangomez | Vanderbilt
Bogdanovic | Culver | Layman
Beasley | Okogie
Russell | McJordan
Sign5 wrote:Yea not happening, I expected a better retort but what do I expect from realgm(ers) in 2025. Just quote and state things that lack context, then repeat the same thing over and over as if something new and profound was said. Just lol.
jayu70 wrote:KGdaBom wrote:shangrila wrote:Can you elaborate on this rumour? I haven't seen it mentioned before.
I'm guessing something like Atlanta gets 8+27 from NY, we get 6 and a future pick from you/NY respectively and NY lands the 1?
Let me see if I understand you correctly. Atlanta would be giving up 6 and a future #1 to get 8 and 27? Sounds like Atlanta is getting totally hosed if they're including a future #1 that is likely to be better than the 27 pick they got for trading back from 6 to 8.
No.
Atlanta trades #6 to NYK for #8 and #27.
NYK then trade #6 and Dallas 2021 1st to Minny for #1. Minny prefers the NYK 2021 1st in lieu of the Dallas 1st.
shrink wrote:Which GSW asset do you all believe has more value?
2020 #2 or 2021 MIN 1st, Top 3 protected, then unprotected?
shangrila wrote:jayu70 wrote:KGdaBom wrote:Let me see if I understand you correctly. Atlanta would be giving up 6 and a future #1 to get 8 and 27? Sounds like Atlanta is getting totally hosed if they're including a future #1 that is likely to be better than the 27 pick they got for trading back from 6 to 8.
No.
Atlanta trades #6 to NYK for #8 and #27.
NYK then trade #6 and Dallas 2021 1st to Minny for #1. Minny prefers the NYK 2021 1st in lieu of the Dallas 1st.
That's what I said. Not sure why KG jumped in there asking a question about my question to you, when obviously if I knew what was going on I wouldn't be asking the question in the first place but, well, here we are.
shrink wrote:Which GSW asset do you all believe has more value?
2020 #2 or 2021 MIN 1st, Top 3 protected, then unprotected?
Streakers33 wrote:shrink wrote:Which GSW asset do you all believe has more value?
2020 #2 or 2021 MIN 1st, Top 3 protected, then unprotected?
That’s where I been thinking we go after their pick and grab Edwards and wiseman. Sign our free agents and go.
Might be a year GS just trades out.. if this is a 3 guy draft and we don’t want ball, we go get both picks giving up future picks and call it a night.. we won’t ever see pick one or two again.. so get aggressive and go. Talent grab in the draft. Tell towns we are doing it and win!
Now do that trade today.. then on draft night, when the bulls, hawks, nyc want to trade up they need more to it cuz u taking both guys.. and we need godfather offers to trade or move on.
Sign5 wrote:Yea not happening, I expected a better retort but what do I expect from realgm(ers) in 2025. Just quote and state things that lack context, then repeat the same thing over and over as if something new and profound was said. Just lol.
shrink wrote:The MIN-NYK-GSW option that Hollinger originally mentioned holds the most interest to me, because NYK a would pick Ball. Here’s a new spin:
GSW GIVES: Wiggins, #2, 2021 MIN 1st, (Iguodala TPE)
GSW GETS: Mitchell Robinson, Randle, Ellington, #8 (James Johnson)
NYK GIVES: #8, Mitchell Robinson, Randle, Ellington
NYK GETS: #1, #17, #33, Wiggins, Omari Spellman
MIN GIVES: #1, #17, #33, Spellman, (Johnson)
MIN GETS: #2, 2021 MIN 1st
Why for GSW? If they want to compete next year with contenders who spent their payroll better, they need to give up something to turn Wiggins into productive salary. Randle and Ellington provide some vets, while the star of the deal, Mitchell Robinson, learns on the job. Randle and Ellington are on partially guaranteed deals in 2022, so they may provide trade flexibility, along with the #8 pick, and James Johnson, who provides expiring salary matching trade fodder for acquiring one more good piece.
Why for NYK? They realize they need to add something significant to #8 to get the #1 pick, and between Barrett, Mitchell and their unprotected 2021 pick, they choose Mitchell. They expect Ball to make mistakes as a rookie, and moving Randle and Mitchell makes it likely their 2021 pick has a lot of value. The #1 pick guarantees they get their man - if MIN uses it on Ball themselves, or trades it to a team that does, NYK’s plan falls apart. They add additional young prospects in #17, #33, and Spellman, who should get some minutes with Randle and Mitchell leaving, Wiggins is a tough pill the following two years, but Randle/Ellington/Mitchell cost that much next year. This is the rebuild mode (Ball, picks, keep the 2021 NYK pick)
Why for MIN? This seems like a no-brainer. It’s doubtful (I think?) that they were picking Ball, so they get value from going to #1 to #2 without their player going off the draft board (even if it just to trade it). They give up three prospects to reclaim their 2021, which frees them from any Stepian issues if they want to use a pick for some future trade. This create roster space, the the TPE is more valuable to MIN than Johnson.
shrink wrote:The MIN-NYK-GSW option that Hollinger originally mentioned holds the most interest to me, because NYK a would pick Ball. Here’s a new spin:
GSW GIVES: Wiggins, #2, 2021 MIN 1st, (Iguodala TPE)
GSW GETS: Mitchell Robinson, Randle, Ellington, #8 (James Johnson)
NYK GIVES: #8, Mitchell Robinson, Randle, Ellington
NYK GETS: #1, #17, #33, Wiggins, Omari Spellman
MIN GIVES: #1, #17, #33, Spellman, (Johnson)
MIN GETS: #2, 2021 MIN 1st
Why for GSW? If they want to compete next year with contenders who spent their payroll better, they need to give up something to turn Wiggins into productive salary. Randle and Ellington provide some vets, while the star of the deal, Mitchell Robinson, learns on the job. Randle and Ellington are on partially guaranteed deals in 2022, so they may provide trade flexibility, along with the #8 pick, and James Johnson, who provides expiring salary matching trade fodder for acquiring one more good piece.
Why for NYK? They realize they need to add something significant to #8 to get the #1 pick, and between Barrett, Mitchell and their unprotected 2021 pick, they choose Mitchell. They expect Ball to make mistakes as a rookie, and moving Randle and Mitchell makes it likely their 2021 pick has a lot of value. The #1 pick guarantees they get their man - if MIN uses it on Ball themselves, or trades it to a team that does, NYK’s plan falls apart. They add additional young prospects in #17, #33, and Spellman, who should get some minutes with Randle and Mitchell leaving, Wiggins is a tough pill the following two years, but Randle/Ellington/Mitchell cost that much next year. This is the rebuild mode (Ball, picks, keep the 2021 NYK pick)
Why for MIN? This seems like a no-brainer. It’s doubtful (I think?) that they were picking Ball, so they get value from going to #1 to #2 without their player going off the draft board (even if it just to trade it). They give up three prospects to reclaim their 2021, which frees them from any Stepian issues if they want to use a pick for some future trade. This create roster space, the the TPE is more valuable to MIN than Johnson.
Sign5 wrote:Yea not happening, I expected a better retort but what do I expect from realgm(ers) in 2025. Just quote and state things that lack context, then repeat the same thing over and over as if something new and profound was said. Just lol.
shrink wrote:I think you guys may be over-estimating our trade position here. If we moves from #1 to #2, that has value, but both trade partners would point out that it costs us nothing if NYK is getting pick to draft Ball. I am doing a poll over on the Trade Board, and they are one of the only teams that would take him first. Whether we kept the pick or traded it, getting Edwards or Wiseman at the #2 still keeps all our options open. We can easily be cut out of this deal, if NYK thinks they can just deal for the #2 and still get Ball.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Klomp wrote:shrink wrote:I think you guys may be over-estimating our trade position here. If we moves from #1 to #2, that has value, but both trade partners would point out that it costs us nothing if NYK is getting pick to draft Ball. I am doing a poll over on the Trade Board, and they are one of the only teams that would take him first. Whether we kept the pick or traded it, getting Edwards or Wiseman at the #2 still keeps all our options open. We can easily be cut out of this deal, if NYK thinks they can just deal for the #2 and still get Ball.
They are the only fan base that would take him first. It's an important distinction. No one knows what the teams could do. Minnesota could easily draft Ball first, leaving NY in the dust if they tried to cut us out.
Sign5 wrote:Yea not happening, I expected a better retort but what do I expect from realgm(ers) in 2025. Just quote and state things that lack context, then repeat the same thing over and over as if something new and profound was said. Just lol.
shrink wrote:Finally, if we are going to disregard information because it was posted by fans, then every thread at RealGM is worthless.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
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