BigUps wrote:So, does this mean the board would be content with Vassell?
A 3 & D guy? No thanks.
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BigUps wrote:So, does this mean the board would be content with Vassell?
MrSparkle wrote:I think the most disappointing player I'd get out of this draft is another one-way liability. I'm so sick of those; whether it's offense (Hutch, Carter, Gafford) or defense (Valentine, Lauri, Dunn, Kornet). I'd rather just sign an undrafted player to a laughable NBA contract if that's the roulette I play. Cause honestly, I don't see what a lot of those guys bring that Arci and Shaq don't.
Give me a tough starter who can:
- Dribble
- Defend
- Rebound
- Pass
- Shoot
It's tough because the top-6 is red-flag central, but really, like every draft, there will be atleast 1 stud in the top crop. There is never a 100% fail rate at the top of the draft, and frankly, between GSW, CHI and ATL, I don't think all 3 FOs are gonna whiff.
I think I don't want:
Okoro - Cause he's not gonna shoot or create.
Wiseman - Cause he's not gonna shoot or create, and might even be a defensive liability if he doesn't rotate well.
LaMelo - Dude checks all the boxes theoretically, but I really think he's gonna be a piss-poor shooter like his brother, and worse yet, I think he's going to be soft and injury prone.
Obi - Defensive flags.
Which leaves: Deni, Hayes and of course the unanimous #1 (so far) Edwards. Okongwu can't shoot but he's a high-motor two-way monster in the paint, so I'm not crying if he comes in and posterizes WCJ and Lauri in practice.
But then, I do see a scenario where the players I didn't "want" actually end up better. This is a tough draft.
Pistol King wrote:sco wrote:Agree. Hope you're right. I still don't buy the argument that just because other prospects would look worse in Israel,
Not just in Israel, particularly in Maccabi Tel Aviv, and I extendedly explained why.that Deni, a guy who looks slow to me (sorry)
Find me one time in the second half of the season, when he really tried on defense and still couldn't guard his opponent, whether it was a point guard, wing or PF. Usually when he failed defensively it was due to lack of effort, lack of focus or being careful because of foul trouble. Not because slow feet. You can argue with me and say he must improve his body shape to be able to guard fast players at the NBA level consistently, I'll be with you on that, you can argue with me and say he's not quick as the typical 6'5 wing in the NBA, I can agree with you on that too, but I'd disagree if you say he's slower than the typical 6'9 NBA player. Not only that, I think he will be quicker than the average 6'9 player. Particularly once his body stop to grow and he learns how to use his body.and, more importantly, doesn't have a left hand
Finishing with left:
From 0:22':
https://youtu.be/SlM6WlHljUw?t=22
From 2:08':
https://youtu.be/MIRh_bOhMks?t=128
From 2:13':
https://youtu.be/MIRh_bOhMks?t=134
From 4:00':
https://youtu.be/MIRh_bOhMks?t=240
From 0:15':
https://youtu.be/ByFlnkbacfs?t=14
From 2:50':
https://youtu.be/ByFlnkbacfs?t=169
From 12:43':
https://youtu.be/Jl8ldSuDx7k?t=763
It's not that he doesn't have left hand, he just need to learn to use it consistently. Big difference. He dribbles a lot with his left hand and he has shown he can finish with his left as well. He said on the Mike Shmitz breakdown he didn't really pay attention to it (bad coaching). It is fixable.and is a suspect shooter, will look good in the NBA.
Suspect doesn't mean he can't shoot, right? it just means some people afraid his bad FT indicates he might not be developed into a good shooter. My only advice on this is to watch his full games and see how he shots (especially after the break) and then ask yourself whether with his work ethic he can do the little adjustments needed to completely clean his shot. For me, there are enough reasons to believe he can, he shot ~70% from FT since the break, with higher amount of FT attempts, the form/mechanics looks good, and the touch look good. I still think his biggest need is to strengthen his legs and gain more body control after he learns his body. It will take his whole game to the next level.I do agree that it's too easy to compare him to other similarly sized Euro's to project his success/failure
Happy we completely agree on something
MrSparkle wrote:I think the most disappointing player I'd get out of this draft is another one-way liability. I'm so sick of those; whether it's offense (Hutch, Carter, Gafford) or defense (Valentine, Lauri, Dunn, Kornet). I'd rather just sign an undrafted player to a laughable NBA contract if that's the roulette I play. Cause honestly, I don't see what a lot of those guys bring that Arci and Shaq don't.
Give me a tough starter who can:
- Dribble
- Defend
- Rebound
- Pass
- Shoot
With 1 x-factor (either hustle, vision, or clutch genes).
It's tough because the top-6 is red-flag central, but really, like every draft, there will be atleast 1 stud in the top crop. There is never a 100% fail rate at the top of the draft, and frankly, between GSW, CHI and ATL, I don't think all 3 FOs are gonna whiff.
I think I don't want:
Okoro - Cause he's not gonna shoot or create.
Wiseman - Cause he's not gonna shoot or create, and might even be a defensive liability if he doesn't rotate well. But I can see that if all went perfectly well, he is the 2nd most talented prospect.
LaMelo - Dude checks all the boxes theoretically, but I really think he's gonna be a piss-poor shooter like his brother, and worse yet, I think he's going to be soft and injury prone. On the long-shot he actually pans out though, I do "agree" - like Wiseman, LaMelo is the most talented player in this draft minus his playground jump-shot. But then, he's just such a funny case of a project. Like, does he have a clutch gene? He's lost games most his life playing in pro leagues due to his dad's shenanigans, so this guy doesn't even have the success that Deni or Hayes have.
Obi - Defensive flags.
Vassell - No creation ability.
Which leaves: Deni, Hayes and of course the unanimous #1 (so far) Edwards. Okongwu can't shoot but he's a high-motor two-way monster in the paint, so I'm not crying if he comes in and posterizes WCJ and Lauri in practice.
BeKuK wrote:I knew most people would pick Lamelo Ball....which I am also picking, but I'm really curious to know what it would look like if his father would not be Lavar Ball as we all know Lavar.
2018C3 wrote:Submitted my vote......... Deni
Not a great shooter, lacks athleticism, Does not project to be a defensive juggernaut. I have a really hard time understanding why people see so much potential in his game.
If drafted, I doubt he will ever be a better player than Lauri Markkanen, or Wendal Carter.
arusinov wrote:2018C3 wrote:Submitted my vote......... Deni
Not a great shooter, lacks athleticism, Does not project to be a defensive juggernaut. I have a really hard time understanding why people see so much potential in his game.
If drafted, I doubt he will ever be a better player than Lauri Markkanen, or Wendal Carter.
I really like all those takes about Deni's "lack of athleticism" as if he was Dario Saric or Kyle Anderson
Actually Deni has close to 40 inch max vertical:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/io37y3/do_you_consider_deni_avdija_a_good_athlete/
And run coast-to-coast from steal to dunk in less than 4 seconds:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/igv0qc/deni_avidja_straight_line_speed/
Now... "I don't like to play the race card" but I don't believe people would question his athleticism if he wasn't "a white Euro".
Dez wrote:BeKuK wrote:I knew most people would pick Lamelo Ball....which I am also picking, but I'm really curious to know what it would look like if his father would not be Lavar Ball as we all know Lavar.
It's got nothing to do with his father and everything to do with the large flaws in his game.
The only positive in his game is his passing.
sco wrote:Appreciate the sales pitch on Deni (I mean that in a good way - I don't want to not want him). I see some promise that I overlooked during my very minimal review of his body of work!
MrSparkle wrote:I think the most disappointing player I'd get out of this draft is another one-way liability. I'm so sick of those; whether it's offense (Hutch, Carter, Gafford) or defense (Valentine, Lauri, Dunn, Kornet). I'd rather just sign an undrafted player to a laughable NBA contract if that's the roulette I play. Cause honestly, I don't see what a lot of those guys bring that Arci and Shaq don't.
Give me a tough starter who can:
- Dribble
- Defend
- Rebound
- Pass
- Shoot
With 1 x-factor (either hustle, vision, or clutch genes).
It's tough because the top-6 is red-flag central, but really, like every draft, there will be atleast 1 stud in the top crop. There is never a 100% fail rate at the top of the draft, and frankly, between GSW, CHI and ATL, I don't think all 3 FOs are gonna whiff.
I think I don't want:
Okoro - Cause he's not gonna shoot or create.
Wiseman - Cause he's not gonna shoot or create, and might even be a defensive liability if he doesn't rotate well. But I can see that if all went perfectly well, he is the 2nd most talented prospect.
LaMelo - Dude checks all the boxes theoretically, but I really think he's gonna be a piss-poor shooter like his brother, and worse yet, I think he's going to be soft and injury prone. On the long-shot he actually pans out though, I do "agree" - like Wiseman, LaMelo is the most talented player in this draft minus his playground jump-shot. But then, he's just such a funny case of a project. Like, does he have a clutch gene? He's lost games most his life playing in pro leagues due to his dad's shenanigans, so this guy doesn't even have the success that Deni or Hayes have.
Obi - Defensive flags.
Vassell - No creation ability.
Which leaves: Deni, Hayes and of course the unanimous #1 (so far) Edwards. Okongwu can't shoot but he's a high-motor two-way monster in the paint, so I'm not crying if he comes in and posterizes WCJ and Lauri in practice.
MGB8 wrote:
See, I see red flags on all of them. I'm not sure that Deni couldn't be a bit of a liability on both ends in the NBA. You put a Jimmy Butler or even Marcus Smart on him (or a lesser player), and can he get past them? Can he easily get his shot off over them due to his size... or is he a "small" 6'9 in that sense? And can he switch to defend the fast 6'5 guy?