***Around The League 2020 Bubble Thread***

KGdaBom · Post #281 » by **KGdaBom** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:15 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
His game is build around exceptional athletic skills. However, he developed zero basketball awareness during his NBA career, he is already 31yo, shoot first-comboguard, with no jumpshot, no passing game, with 3 yrs left of his 206mil/5yrs contact.

Right now he struggles because he comes after latest injury, which is kind of expected since he is an injury prone player. Still dont see context?

Zero basketball awareness and no passing game for a guy who has led the NBA in assists and averaged 10 rebounds per game from the PG position. Rebounding is all about awareness. What does the amount of his contract have to do with his impact as a basketball player. Minimus your bias just blinds you so often. You're a good guy, but you seldom let go of your bias and see things clearly.

Oh no, here we go again.

1) in Russ case it is not called awareness, it is called stats padding: stealing rebounds from teammates, throwing multiple times the ball without reading defense. He runs like a deer, he jumps like a deer, he thinks like a deer. Everybody has been laughing on it, you seem to be late, but no worries, watch actual games and join the party.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

2) Have you ever wondered why OKC with washed up CP3 looked better in playoffs than OKC with Russ and PG13? Why this year Westbrook advanced to the second-round for the first time since 2016? Why both KD and PG13 left OKC as soon as another option became realistic?

3) Westbrook indeed plays his best season. But again, context is important. Morey overhauled HOU roster to fit Westbrook.

I've watched him play a million times and I would be thrilled to have him on my team or even as my teammate. Is he flawless? No of course not. However, what he does well far outweighs what he doesn't do well.

You look for any excuse you can find to denigrate him. He'll be a very deserving member of basketball's hall of fame in his first year of eligibility. However, you have made up your mind to hate on him so enjoy yourself.

Jedzz · Post #282 » by **Jedzz** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:18 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:

Read on Twitter

I remember some MIN fans said that Westbrook is a good PG for MIN

Westbrook despite his jump shooting weakness has had a very good year by compensating with what he's very good at. He gets to the rim, plays D, assists, and rebounds. He's struggling at the moment.

His game is build around exceptional athletic skills. However, he developed zero basketball awareness during his NBA career, he is already 31yo, shoot first-comboguard, with no jumpshot, no passing game, with 3 yrs left of his 206mil/5yrs contact.

Right now he struggles because he comes after latest injury, which is kind of expected since he is an injury prone player. Still dont see context?

No need to pile on negatives that aren't there. In his last 4 consectuive seasons for OKC he everaged over ten assists per game. He doesn't fit into Houston's offense in the same way so it's dropped to 7 this year. So his passing isn't horrible, it's similar to Rubio's output of feeding of others even if people see him as ballhog or something. He's just been onball so much as well. His major fault is outside shooting and long jumpers

Jedzz · Post #283 » by **Jedzz** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:21 pm

Edwards will save the day. 18 shots at 29-31% at a time. The great Wolves savior of the next 5 seasons, not. I really hope he can become a consistent shooter if they draft him and also become a real defender. Hope in one hand and a bag of in the other.

minimus · Post #284 » by **minimus** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:22 pm

Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Westbrook despite his jump shooting weakness has had a very good year by compensating with what he's very good at. He gets to the rim, plays D, assists, and rebounds. He's struggling at the moment.

His game is build around exceptional athletic skills. However, he developed zero basketball awareness during his NBA career, he is already 31yo, shoot first-comboguard, with no jumpshot, no passing game, with 3 yrs left of his 206mil/5yrs contact.

Right now he struggles because he comes after latest injury, which is kind of expected since he is an injury prone player. Still dont see context?

No need to pile on negatives that aren't there. In his last 4 consectuive seasons for OKC he everaged over ten assists per game. He doesn't fit into Houston's offense in the same way so it's dropped to 7 this year. So his passing isn't horrible, it's similar to Rubio's output of feeding of others even if people see him as ballhog or something. He's just been onball so much as well. His major fault is outside shooting and long jumpers

Have you just compared Rubio's passing ability and IQ to Westbrook s?! How dare you!

Also, HOU five-out is the best possible fit for Westbrook

Jedzz · Post #285 » by **Jedzz** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:24 pm

minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
His game is build around exceptional athletic skills. However, he developed zero basketball awareness during his NBA career, he is already 31yo, shoot first-comboguard, with no jumpshot, no passing game, with 3 yrs left of his 206mil/5yrs contact.

Right now he struggles because he comes after latest injury, which is kind of expected since he is an injury prone player. Still dont see context?

No need to pile on negatives that aren't there. In his last 4 consectuive seasons for OKC he everaged over ten assists per game. He doesn't fit into Houston's offense in the same way so it's dropped to 7 this year. So his passing isn't horrible, it's similar to Rubio's output of feeding of others even if people see him as ballhog or something. He's just been onball so much as well. His major fault is outside shooting and long jumpers

Have you just compared Rubio's passing ability and IQ to Westbrook s?! How dare you!

Also, HOU five-out is the best possible fit for Westbrook

Did I say anything about IQ ? Will you admit per game he assists others on Rubio's level or not?

Also, Westbrooks missed 3s are probably why they just lost to the Lakers. Everyone else over 15 minutes was shooting at or near 50%. He shot 1 of 7 from 3. He was left undefended out there and that's why he got 7 shots from 3. 5 out isn't his best possible fit.

Maybe Eric Gordan hits even more than 6 of 12 if two defenders aren't jumping in his face because one doesn't have to defend westbrook outside.

Jedzz · Post #286 » by **Jedzz** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:45 pm

minimus wrote:

Zero basketball awareness and no passing game for a guy who has led the NBA in assists and averaged 10 rebounds per game from the PG position. Rebounding is all about awareness. What does the amount of his contract have to do with his impact as a basketball player. Minimus your bias just blinds you so often. You're a good guy, but you seldom let go of your bias and see things clearly.

Oh no, here we go again.

1) in Russ case it is not called awareness, it is called stats padding: stealing rebounds from teammates, throwing multiple times the ball without reading defense. He runs like a deer, he jumps like a deer, he thinks like a deer. Everybody has been laughing on it, you seem to be late, but no worries, watch actual games and join the party.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

First clip. All I see there is a bunch of players that can't shoot or won't shoot. He's feeding others, plenty of those are nice open shots if they take them and make them. He's not feeding a bunch of double teams or anything. he's not throwing passes into the stands missing people.

Second clip.
As if Kevin Love got his rebound a different way. As if Towns does now? Any decent player racking up high amounts of rebounds will show nearly half of them as easy collections of the ball. Why? Because they are simply good at being where the ball will be. It's part of game IQ really. Nobody ever saw Timberwolves players both jumping up to collect the rebound? You want them to. They aren't always going to know their teammate is right there as well behind them. They might hear/feel that person behind them and think it could be an opponent. Just go get if you are the type to go get them.

These are just complainers using the guy that is the center of action all game every game to blame. Is he a perfect baller? Hell no. Is he entirely graceful and smooth all the time? No. But he doesn't have near the negatives some of you want to apply. His greatest weakness is the long jumpers and the fact that hasn't developed for him in any consistent way. In fact, if he was a better shooter he clearly would take more shots and people would then complain he's a ball hog all day. He knows he's not a great shooter. Just like Rubio knew early on as a Wolves player. Difference might be that Rubio at least slowly developed the ability more, while Westbrook continued focusing on being a fearless driving guard.

KGdaBom · Post #287 » by **KGdaBom** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:47 pm

Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
No need to pile on negatives that aren't there. In his last 4 consectuive seasons for OKC he everaged over ten assists per game. He doesn't fit into Houston's offense in the same way so it's dropped to 7 this year. So his passing isn't horrible, it's similar to Rubio's output of feeding of others even if people see him as ballhog or something. He's just been onball so much as well. His major fault is outside shooting and long jumpers

Have you just compared Rubio's passing ability and IQ to Westbrook s?! How dare you!

Also, HOU five-out is the best possible fit for Westbrook

Did I say anything about IQ ? Will you admit per game he assists others on Rubio's level or not?

Also, Westbrooks missed 3s are probably why they just lost to the Lakers. Everyone else over 15 minutes was shooting at or near 50%. He shot 1 of 7 from 3. He was left undefended out there and that's why he got 7 shots from 3. 5 out isn't his best possible fit.

Maybe Eric Gordan hits even more than 6 of 12 if two defenders aren't jumping in his face because one doesn't have to defend westbrook outside.

If Westbrook had a good three he would be the best basketball player of all time. Since his 3 basically sucks he's merely one of the best basketball players of all time.

minimus · Post #288 » by **minimus** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:52 pm

Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
No need to pile on negatives that aren't there. In his last 4 consectuive seasons for OKC he everaged over ten assists per game. He doesn't fit into Houston's offense in the same way so it's dropped to 7 this year. So his passing isn't horrible, it's similar to Rubio's output of feeding of others even if people see him as ballhog or something. He's just been onball so much as well. His major fault is outside shooting and long jumpers

Have you just compared Rubio's passing ability and IQ to Westbrook s?! How dare you!

Also, HOU five-out is the best possible fit for Westbrook

Did I say anything about IQ ? Will you admit per game he assists others on Rubio's level or not?

Also, Westbrooks missed 3s are probably why they just lost to the Lakers. Everyone else over 15 minutes was shooting at or near 50%. He shot 1 of 7 from 3. He was left undefended out there and that's why he got 7 shots from 3. 5 out isn't his best possible fit.

Maybe Eric Gordon hits even more than 6 of 12 if two defenders aren't jumping in his face because one doesn't have to defend westbrook outside.

If Rubio had Westbrook athletic tools and used same stats padding tactic he would average 20+ assists. So no, Russell is not near close to Rubio as passer. With regard to IQ and passing, have you ever seen low basketball IQ PG who had success in NBA (outside of Teague)? They are not throwing the ball in gym, they MUST read defense and make decisions.

Westbrook biggest problem right now is not his shooting. He has always been a bad shooter. He was brought in HOU as slasher, secondary ballhandler who can put pressure on rim, collapse defense, score or make simple kick-out. Right now they is not the most dominant athlete on the floor, he struggles at finishing at rim and drawing contact.

P.S. And yes, LAL adjusted to HOU. They went small, allowed to their big wings to play bigger role. Kuzma, LeBron, Morris they all played well.

KGdaBom · Post #289 » by **KGdaBom** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:58 pm

minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
Have you just compared Rubio's passing ability and IQ to Westbrook s?! How dare you!

Also, HOU five-out is the best possible fit for Westbrook

Did I say anything about IQ ? Will you admit per game he assists others on Rubio's level or not?

Also, Westbrooks missed 3s are probably why they just lost to the Lakers. Everyone else over 15 minutes was shooting at or near 50%. He shot 1 of 7 from 3. He was left undefended out there and that's why he got 7 shots from 3. 5 out isn't his best possible fit.

Maybe Eric Gordon hits even more than 6 of 12 if two defenders aren't jumping in his face because one doesn't have to defend westbrook outside.

If Rubio had Westbrook athletic tools and used same stats padding tactic he would average 20+ assists. So no, Russell is not near close to Rubio as passer. With regard to IQ and passing, have you ever seen low basketball IQ PG who had success in NBA (outside of Teague)? They are not throwing the ball in gym, they MUST read defense and make decisions.

Westbrook biggest problem right now is not his shooting. He has always been a bad shooter. He was brought in HOU as slasher, secondary ballhandler who can put pressure on rim, collapse defense, score or make simple kick-out. Right now they is not the most dominant athlete on the floor, he struggles at finishing at rim and drawing contact.

P.S. And yes, LAL adjusted to HOU. They went small, allowed to their big wings to play bigger role. Kuzma, LeBron, Morris they all played well.

Being smaller is such an advantage that even though the Lakers went smaller than normal they were still much larger than Houston. How did they possibly win the game with such a massive disadvantage.
Rubio is one of the best passers to ever live. He is a better passer than Westbrook. So freaking what? Westbrook is still a very good passer.

Jedzz · Post #290 » by **Jedzz** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 4:09 pm

minimus wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
minimus wrote:
Have you just compared Rubio's passing ability and IQ to Westbrook s?! How dare you!

Also, HOU five-out is the best possible fit for Westbrook

Did I say anything about IQ ? Will you admit per game he assists others on Rubio's level or not?

Also, Westbrooks missed 3s are probably why they just lost to the Lakers. Everyone else over 15 minutes was shooting at or near 50%. He shot 1 of 7 from 3. He was left undefended out there and that's why he got 7 shots from 3. 5 out isn't his best possible fit.

Maybe Eric Gordon hits even more than 6 of 12 if two defenders aren't jumping in his face because one doesn't have to defend westbrook outside.

If Rubio had Westbrook athletic tools and used same stats padding tactic he would average 20+ assists. So no, Russell is not near close to Rubio as passer. With regard to IQ and passing, have you ever seen low basketball IQ PG who had success in NBA (outside of Teague)? They are not throwing the ball in gym, they MUST read defense and make decisions.

if Rubio had....if Rubio had... We aren't talking about what ifs here. We are talking about what is.

Have I ever seen bad passers? Yes I have. They pass the ball right out of bounds often because they can't project where their teammates are going well enough or can't actuallytime or toss the pass well. Westbrook doesn't fit this narrative.

Westbrook is just a different kind of passer and sets up players for a shot differently than Rubio does. Westbrook uses his own gravity to free up others and he knows where that gap is going to form in his wake. He feeds that area. The problem isn't his when his teammates refuse to shoot or can't make a shot. Just like it wasn't Rubio's fault when all of the Wovles players couldn't make a shot. Rubio would have had many more assists as well. Rubio drives in looking around the court for where best to pass the ball based on what the defense is showing him. They both are using game IQ but just differently.

JMac is maybe a little closer to Westbrook in this regard than he would be closer to Rubio. JMac starts with the threat of his own attack in much the same way and already knows where a gap will form. He might have better timing than Westbrook. Hmm, look at that. I just said JMac is a westbrook that can hit 3s! What have I done?

Neeva · Post #291 » by **Neeva** » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:27 am

Wolves would be in such a better place if they missed the playoffs two years ago and got MPJ with their pick and Kat would not have embarassed himself in the first round houston series. Rosas’ treasure chest for trades would be insane. **** Jokic, missing a damn chippie.

KGdaBom · Post #292 » by **KGdaBom** » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:34 am

Neeva wrote:Wolves would be in such a better place if they missed the playoffs two years ago and got MPJ with their pick and Kat would not have embarassed himself in the first round houston series. Rosas’ treasure chest for trades would be insane. **** Jokic, missing a damn chippie.

And everything else would be different and we wouldn't have the #1 pick now. No Rosas, no Beasley, Hernangomez, Russell, Okogie, Culver and on and on. I'm so glad we won that game and had the privilege of losing in the first round of the playoffs.
You change one thing you change everything. We really have no idea what would have happened.

Post #293 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:38 am

Neeva wrote:Wolves would be in such a better place if they missed the playoffs two years ago and got MPJ with their pick and Kat would not have embarassed himself in the first round houston series. Rosas’ treasure chest for trades would be insane. **** Jokic, missing a damn chippie.

Considering the Wolves have missed out on Steph Curry, Giannis, and Jamal Murray among so many others, I’m not particularly confident they would have drafted the right guy. At least in this case we got to watch some playoff games.

Neeva · Post #294 » by **Neeva** » Tue Sep 8, 2020 4:13 am

Worm Guts wrote:
Neeva wrote:Wolves would be in such a better place if they missed the playoffs two years ago and got MPJ with their pick and Kat would not have embarassed himself in the first round houston series. Rosas’ treasure chest for trades would be insane. **** Jokic, missing a damn chippie.

Considering the Wolves have missed out on Steph Curry, Giannis, and Jamal Murray among so many others, I’m not particularly confident they would have drafted the right guy. At least in this case we got to watch some playoff games.

MPJ was such an obvious bpa at 14 though even Thibs would not mess it up.

Post #295 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Sep 8, 2020 4:21 am

Neeva wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:
Neeva wrote:Wolves would be in such a better place if they missed the playoffs two years ago and got MPJ with their pick and Kat would not have embarassed himself in the first round houston series. Rosas’ treasure chest for trades would be insane. **** Jokic, missing a damn chippie.

Considering the Wolves have missed out on Steph Curry, Giannis, and Jamal Murray among so many others, I’m not particularly confident they would have drafted the right guy. At least in this case we got to watch some playoff games.

MPJ was such an obvious bpa at 14 though even Thibs would not mess it up.

I’m not sure if that’s true, but of all the times you could use hindsight to improve the Wolves and you want take away the only playoff appearance in 15 years.

minimus · Post #296 » by **minimus** » Tue Sep 8, 2020 1:37 pm

Watch on YouTube

Jedzz · Post #297 » by **Jedzz** » Tue Sep 8, 2020 7:38 pm

minimus wrote: no passing game

Jedzz wrote:No need to pile on negatives that aren't there.

minimus wrote:HOU five-out is the best possible fit for Westbrook

Jedzz wrote:Westbrooks missed 3s are probably why they just lost to the Lakers. Everyone else over 15 minutes was shooting at or near 50%. He shot 1 of 7 from 3. He was left undefended out there and that's why he got 7 shots from 3. 5 out isn't his best possible fit.

Maybe Eric Gordan hits even more than 6 of 12 if two defenders aren't jumping in his face because one doesn't have to defend westbrook outside.

minimus wrote:Westbrook biggest problem right now is not his shooting. He has always been a bad shooter.

minimus wrote:

Watch on YouTube

I don't know man. It's hard to believe but this is the order these statements were posted. Your video also confirms my point and brought up how his missed threes likely cost them the game as they couldn't out shoot their opponent that had the clear leverage on inside game. His lack of reliability shooting those caused the other Rockets problems on defense as they sagged off him. We have seen that here before.

I know you also said he was brought in to be a slasher/finisher. The Rockets weren't ever going to win the inside game on defense or even offense once they removed Howard. The reality is in the 5 out he is one of the 5. He needs to have that 3 point shooting skill or it can be taken advantage of. Just like warnings from some here that don't want a PF that can't shoot from the arc. It to matters to this 5 out against good opponents. Which is why I've been harping on this about MN draft prospects. A player like Edwards may end up just like Westbrook if he can't reliably hit 3s enough.

Post #298 » by **Calinks** » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:04 am

OKC making a mistake bot bringing Donovon back after what he did.

Jedzz · Post #299 » by **Jedzz** » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:16 am

Calinks wrote:OKC making a mistake not bringing Donovon back after what he did.

Seems strange alright. But is it him maybe also not wanting to stay? He maybe didn't like them selling off everyone and if they now plan to also attempt to sell off CP, maybe he's not excited about a rebuild. But they are loaded with picks.

Post #300 » by **Calinks** » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:25 am

Jimmy Butler has validated all of his previous actions

Struggled for years on the Bulls.

Got to the playoffs on the wolves and broke a decade-plus drought. Was the best player.

Didn't think he had a future on the wolves and forced his way out. Got to Philly which seemed like a golden fit.

Didn't like the future there either and got out.

Maneuvered his way to the Heat, the wolves fell into obscurity. The Sixers are not nearly as good and get bounced out of the first round. The Miami Heat have the best record in the playoffs and are easily getting into conference finals with a shot to be in title games.

Butler is on the most successful postseason team of his career, he is the star player on that team like he wanted, and he has big compliment of great role players with the chance to add more talent. He is playing in Miami where he wants to be. He is clearly in the best position he could hope for.

He played it beautifully for himself.