2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[Jvaughn]

Take the best player available and trade the underperforming kids for some vets.

We don't need vets, we're not contending. If we're moving pieces, we should be looking for assets back.

I understand your point, but all teams need vets. Stockpiling young assets with no guidance is a recipe to end up like The Process era Sixers. Obviously CP3 is a HOFer, but look at the impact he had for the Thunder who weren't even supposed to sniff the playoffs.

[MGB8]

Any time you ask yourself how we can use the #4 pick to fit in with our current players, you should put $1 in a jar.

Our core is terrible. White, Lavine, Lauri, WCJ. It's basura.

I'm not so down on them, and a full blown rebuild isn't particularly appealing (though more appealing than when they did the Jimmy trade because of the mass objections to being a "treadmill team").

In any event, I'm not down on White or LaVine as potentially starting level pieces on a good team. Both can shoot and create, LaVine's defense while bad has improved and White is "ok" on that end. They aren't team corner-stones, but you can have them on a strong team - even starting - if the other pieces are right.

I'm pretty down on Markkanen because I don't think the Niko-ish "shooting 4" has a real place in the modern NBA - you just guard them with a wing and there's no real offensive advantage, but there is a defensive liability. Maybe Lauri could develop into an offensive 5 for a D'Antoni team, but I'm not sure he can switch well enough on defense.

I'm similarly down on Carter Jr. (and I didn't want to draft him in the first place) because at the 5: (1) he's undersized against bigger players when they come up; (2) doesn't add a lot of "shot-altering" defensive presence; (3) is limited in his switch-ability (though he has some); (4) he's not a "plus" offensive player, generally; and (5) he hasn't developed a 3 that's good enough for opponents to have to respect. To me he's basically "just a guy" - the current version of "average Al" but without the 3 point shot or passing - kind of "dime a dozen" in the current NBA. But he also could be a starter on a strong team, like the Celtics with Kemba-Brown-Tatum-Hayward as the other 4 players - because of the general devaluation of the center position in the modern NBA.

[Andi Obst]

Going off NBADraft.net, I'd be interested in Nate Hinton, Grant Riller, Uros Trifunovic, or Trevelin Queen.

Jump all over Markus Howard if he goes undrafted.

Riller would be insane value at 44. Big fan of Hinton, too

[PaKii94]

https://youtu.be/OQ76ddgZmt0

@37:50

Bob meyers makes a good point. Jimmy butler is a player like that. I think vassell can be too with elite multi position defense

[wonderboy2]

It’s funny how people around the league actually like the bulls young core of Carter, White, Lavine, Markannan. But this board **** on them. But this board like players like Sato when analysts and people from opposing teams don’t like or want him.

[Grodoboldo]

It’s funny how people around the league actually like the bulls young core of Carter, White, Lavine, Markannan. But this board **** on them. But this board like players like Sato when analysts and people from opposing teams don’t like or want him.

If you manage to sit next to AK next summer league, you're gonna bring this Sato subject up, aren't you?

[Southpaw]

Any time you ask yourself how we can use the #4 pick to fit in with our current players, you should put $1 in a jar.

Our core is terrible. White, Lavine, Lauri, WCJ. It's basura.

Yes sir, it's basura indeed. We should be drafting BPA, but not who's BPA now. It should who they project to be BPA and is also most likely to reach that potential.

I also agree that we should trade the other "young" guys, hopefully for some consolidation trades. We could get solid vets somewhere else. Look at Dallas roster for example, their vets are mostly end of the bench guys in Barea, Lee and Boban. We don't need to pay huge dollars for vet presence.

[Jvaughn]

Since Givony sold ou-- I mean went to ESPN, who has had the most accurate mocks?

[TheSuzerain]

Any time you ask yourself how we can use the #4 pick to fit in with our current players, you should put $1 in a jar.

Our core is terrible. White, Lavine, Lauri, WCJ. It's basura.

I'm not so down on them, and a full blown rebuild isn't particularly appealing (though more appealing than when they did the Jimmy trade because of the mass objections to being a "treadmill team").

In any event, I'm not down on White or LaVine as potentially starting level pieces on a good team. Both can shoot and create, LaVine's defense while bad has improved and White is "ok" on that end. They aren't team corner-stones, but you can have them on a strong team - even starting - if the other pieces are right.

I'm pretty down on Markkanen because I don't think the Niko-ish "shooting 4" has a real place in the modern NBA - you just guard them with a wing and there's no real offensive advantage, but there is a defensive liability. Maybe Lauri could develop into an offensive 5 for a D'Antoni team, but I'm not sure he can switch well enough on defense.

I'm similarly down on Carter Jr. (and I didn't want to draft him in the first place) because at the 5: (1) he's undersized against bigger players when they come up; (2) doesn't add a lot of "shot-altering" defensive presence; (3) is limited in his switch-ability (though he has some); (4) he's not a "plus" offensive player, generally; and (5) he hasn't developed a 3 that's good enough for opponents to have to respect. To me he's basically "just a guy" - the current version of "average Al" but without the 3 point shot or passing - kind of "dime a dozen" in the current NBA. But he also could be a starter on a strong team, like the Celtics with Kemba-Brown-Tatum-Hayward as the other 4 players - because of the general devaluation of the center position in the modern NBA.

You could have White/Lavine start on a contending team (especially Lavine, White needs to grow to get there), but you certainly wouldn't want them starting in the backcourt together.

Defensively, that's a bottom 5 (maybe 10 if I'm generous) backcourt in the league.

And on offense, you're woefully short on passing/playmaking ability if you put them next to each other in the backcourt. Neither has great vision. They pretty much just hunt shots for themselves.

A big reason why Lauri/WCJ have disappointed is our total lack of an NBA caliber playmaker who can get others involved. The days of pass-only PGs are over, but passing remains a huge part of the modern game.

[TheSuzerain]

Take the best player available and trade the underperforming kids for some vets.

We don't need vets, we're not contending. If we're moving pieces, we should be looking for assets back.

I understand your point, but all teams need vets. Stockpiling young assets with no guidance is a recipe to end up like The Process era Sixers. Obviously CP3 is a HOFer, but look at the impact he had for the Thunder who weren't even supposed to sniff the playoffs.

What impact did CP3 have in the long run? Thunder are tread-milling hard right now.

We should build through the draft. Properly this time by stacking 3-4 picks per draft for 2-3 years.

The roster is not salvageable in any enjoyable way. The only saving grace would be a superstar Free Agent signing. You guys really willing to put our chips on that again?

[Grodoboldo]

Since Givony sold ou-- I mean went to ESPN, who has had the most accurate mocks?

NBADraft net. For the last couple of years I think they're out of their mind
Still, comes draft night and they're much more on point than the other places.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

[Andi Obst]

Since Givony sold ou-- I mean went to ESPN, who has had the most accurate mocks?

I think it will be incredibly hard to find an accurate mock this year especially. So many player being ranked all over the place.

NBADraft net. For the last couple of years I think they're out of their mind
Still, comes draft night and they're much more on point than the other places.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

Man, that would a wild outcome. Sacramento drafting Precious at 12, Orlando taking another backup center at 15, which is both terrible value and a terrible fit (especially with Lewis, Hampton, Terry and Maxey still available), Cole dropping to Boston, Poku dropping out of the first round (???) or Atlanta going with Toppin at 6...so many crazy things going on.

[Grodoboldo]

Since Givony sold ou-- I mean went to ESPN, who has had the most accurate mocks?

I think it will be incredibly hard to find an accurate mock this year especially. So many player being ranked all over the place.

NBADraft net. For the last couple of years I think they're out of their mind
Still, comes draft night and they're much more on point than the other places.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

Man, that would a wild outcome. Sacramento drafting Precious at 12, Orlando taking another backup center at 15, which is both terrible value and a terrible fit (especially with Lewis, Hampton, Terry and Maxey still available), Cole dropping to Boston, Poku dropping out of the first round (???) or Atlanta going with Toppin at 6...so many crazy things going on.

There's still too much time till draft day, so I wouldn't put much stock on this yet. Generally things get more real one or two weeks prior to the real thing.
But I'm telling you, I doubted them the last couple of years, I'm not doing it again.
(which is why they will probably guess everything wrong this time, lol)

[TheSuzerain]

Sacramento and Orlando making terrible picks is a very likely outcome. NBADraft.net knows their stuff!

[PlayerUp]

Take the best player available and trade the underperforming kids for some vets.

We don't need vets, we're not contending. If we're moving pieces, we should be looking for assets back.

I understand your point, but all teams need vets. Stockpiling young assets with no guidance is a recipe to end up like The Process era Sixers. Obviously CP3 is a HOFer, but look at the impact he had for the Thunder who weren't even supposed to sniff the playoffs.

Vets or no vets, without a star we aren't going anywhere. We don't need vets right now. We need to keep building assets until we have clear star upside player(s).

Mavs didn't need vets to take off.
Grizzlies didn't need vets to take off.

Stop wasting our cap space on Tomas and Youngs and focus instead on absorbing contracts for picks back like the Grizzlies and Hawks have been doing.

[PlayerUp]

Sacramento and Orlando making terrible picks is a very likely outcome. NBADraft.net knows their stuff!

Hornets as well.

[PlayerUp]

Since Givony sold ou-- I mean went to ESPN, who has had the most accurate mocks?

ESPNs - https://tv5.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable
CBS - https://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft/
The Ringer - https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

[Andi Obst]

Sacramento and Orlando making terrible picks is a very likely outcome. NBADraft.net knows their stuff!

Fair enough.

[Jvaughn]

We don't need vets, we're not contending. If we're moving pieces, we should be looking for assets back.

I understand your point, but all teams need vets. Stockpiling young assets with no guidance is a recipe to end up like The Process era Sixers. Obviously CP3 is a HOFer, but look at the impact he had for the Thunder who weren't even supposed to sniff the playoffs.

What impact did CP3 have in the long run? Thunder are tread-milling hard right now.

We should build through the draft. Properly this time by stacking 3-4 picks per draft for 2-3 years.

The roster is not salvageable in any enjoyable way. The only saving grace would be a superstar Free Agent signing. You guys really willing to put our chips on that again?

Thunder were projected a bottom 5 team and ended up being a possession away from playing the Lakers in the next round. Playing playoff basketball is so underrated for player growth and development. I wouldn't call them treadmill at all. I definitely disagree about adding 3-4 rookies per year for 3 years. Seems like a recipe for disaster with all that inexperience.

I don't see any FA signing here until we prove we can build a competitive roster. And while, the draft is the cheapest way to add talent, playing the trade market is undervalued. Whether or not we are willing to trade them, we have young players that can fetch decent returns. And with the cap space we should have next year we should be on the lookout for deals to absorb salary in the offseason.

[StunnerKO]

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Ok
Good still in October