Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($)

[Ducklett]

This is a long con to move the Magic out of Orlando. Mark my words.

[Tarheel]

This is a long con to move the Magic out of Orlando. Mark my words.

I'm pretty sure the Magic signed a fairly long-term lease of the new arena, so can't see them leaving any time soon.

[PrimeThyme]

Says he believes the Bucks series would have gone differently if the Magic had Gordon, Carter-Williams, Bamba, Isaac and Aminu healthy

lol
delusional old man

In fairness, I think it probably would have. Even at full health, I think if we played them again it would have ended in a sweep. 9/10 I think that series ends in a sweep.

We capitalized on a post-Corona Bucks team. Yes, they are flawed (as we saw against Miami), but they are still far superior to us in every facet. Bamba and Aminu certainly aren't why we lost that series and AG/MCW wouldn't have moved the needle either.

Clark was arguably the most important supporting piece in that series with his ability to knock down 3's. Something Aminu/AG can't consistently do for us. He wouldn't have gotten any burn had AG/Aminu been there.

[Max Power]

Honestly, did we expect them to say anything else but this? Part of a GM/President of B-ball Operations job is to massage the media and the fan base into thinking things are improving. Weltman isn’t going to go on record and mirror what a bunch of die hards on a chat board think.

Exactly.

What else is he going to say? "This team isn't good enough and we need an overhaul"?

My thoughts are Weltman and Hammond got this off season to put the Magic back on the path to contendership, or the rebuild gets green lit and they’ll be let go after 20-21. So they’ll be working the phones to find a star, any star to get this situations stink smelling a little rosier.

It definitely feels like the off-season when Henny traded for Ibaka but I don't get the sense WeHam are in the hot seat as much.

No matter how you look at it, coming off two playoff appearances and another compromised season from a financial point of view, I don't think Martins is going to "demand better or else."

I honestly have no faith in Weltman and Hammond to turn this roster into a championship contender. I’d welcome an entire regime change next summer. Clifford is the only person in this current organization I’d keep. I do believe his quality as a coach isn’t truly known until he gets a roster with championship level talent. He’s done a good job here.

While I agree that this team doesn't appear to be on trajectory to reach contender status, I'm still of the mind that staying around the 6-9 seed is the second best place to be.

I'll keep saying it — one star or one of our young guys making a major leap is all you need to go up in the standings by 3-4 slots.

I bet Buford and the Spurs are thinking the same thing and I'll follow them.

And I agree, Max, I think Clifford has given all you can ask for.

I can see your point here Kent. While I don’t think the seats hot yet either. It’s definitely a lot less comfortable. Although the fact that Markelle Fultz resurgence will likely give them a little bit of breathing room I suspect. I’m hoping these guys will make a bold move and change up this roster. I do think you can make something with a few of these guys already here. It’s almost like they’ve got the supporting players in place, now we need the leads.

[MagicFan101]

I would hold judgement on these statements until we see what happens this offseason.

You can’t go out before trade season kicking and screaming “all our assets are worthless! They have no value! I hate them all!”

You have to play the used car salesman role and at least try and up sell something. Hype up the one game we won, hope for more and a dream of better with this talent. See if some sucker GM is a little more intrigued by Gordon or Evan than he should be.


... !! IF !! nothing happens and we roll out the same roster next season then I’m getting in line with you all and calling for their heads.

[swarlesbarkley]

:cry:

Says he believes the Bucks series would have gone differently if the Magic had Gordon, Carter-Williams, Bamba, Isaac and Aminu healthy

lol
delusional old man

It would have been

I guess we probably would've lost by less so technically the series would've gone differently.

[Knightro]

The sad thing for us as fans is the fact that Weltman and Hammond are taking the Magic down the path that ownership and Martins want them to take.

The DeVos family and Martins want the team to be competitive. Of course they'd love for them to be contending too, but make no mistake competitive with no path to becoming contending is still preferable to tanking/rebuilding in their eyes.

Think about it this way.

You're a mid 30s working professional. It's a Wednesday night in early March. You live within a reasonable driving distance of Amway. You get off work at 5pm. If the Magic are 30-31 at the time, you're a whole hell of a lot more likely to decide on a whim at 5pm on a Wednesday night "I think I'm gonna go buy a ticket to see the Magic play tonight" than you are if they're 18-43.

And if you decide to buy a ticket, then you're probably going to end up pay for a parking space. You may buy yourself or one of your kids a jersey or hat or shirt from the team shop. You're gonna buy concessions. If you have kids and you bring them, they may have fun watching Stuff and all the miscellaneous nonsense that goes on and beg you to go back later that same month.

If they're 18-43, you're not even giving it a second thought. You might even decline free tickets.

That is what Alex Martins and the DeVos family are DESPERATE to avoid. They want your money and people don't spend money on really bad sports products.

The Magic, unfortunately, have a much bigger problem than Jeff Weltman. It starts at the top.

[Def Swami]

The sad thing for us as fans is the fact that Weltman and Hammond are taking the Magic down the path that ownership and Martins want them to take.

The DeVos family and Martins want the team to be competitive. Of course they'd love for them to be contending too, but make no mistake competitive with no path to becoming contending is still preferable to tanking/rebuilding in their eyes.

Think about it this way.

You're a mid 30s working professional. It's a Wednesday night in early March. You live within a reasonable driving distance of Amway. You get off work at 5pm. If the Magic are 30-31 at the time, you're a whole hell of a lot more likely to decide on a whim at 5pm on a Wednesday night "I think I'm gonna go buy a ticket to see the Magic play tonight" than you are if they're 18-43.

And if you decide to buy a ticket, then you're probably going to end up pay for a parking space. You may buy yourself or one of your kids a jersey or hat or shirt from the team shop. You're gonna buy concessions. If you have kids and you bring them, they may have fun watching Stuff and all the miscellaneous nonsense that goes on and beg you to go back later that same month.

If they're 18-43, you're not even giving it a second thought. You might even decline free tickets.

That is what Alex Martins and the DeVos family are DESPERATE to avoid. They want your money and people don't spend money on really bad sports products.

The Magic, unfortunately, have a much bigger problem than Jeff Weltman. It starts at the top.

That kid is leaving the game asking his dad for a Miami Heat jersey.

[OrlChamps2030]

The sad thing for us as fans is the fact that Weltman and Hammond are taking the Magic down the path that ownership and Martins want them to take.

The DeVos family and Martins want the team to be competitive. Of course they'd love for them to be contending too, but make no mistake competitive with no path to becoming contending is still preferable to tanking/rebuilding in their eyes.

Think about it this way.

You're a mid 30s working professional. It's a Wednesday night in early March. You live within a reasonable driving distance of Amway. You get off work at 5pm. If the Magic are 30-31 at the time, you're a whole hell of a lot more likely to decide on a whim at 5pm on a Wednesday night "I think I'm gonna go buy a ticket to see the Magic play tonight" than you are if they're 18-43.

And if you decide to buy a ticket, then you're probably going to end up pay for a parking space. You may buy yourself or one of your kids a jersey or hat or shirt from the team shop. You're gonna buy concessions. If you have kids and you bring them, they may have fun watching Stuff and all the miscellaneous nonsense that goes on and beg you to go back later that same month.

If they're 18-43, you're not even giving it a second thought. You might even decline free tickets.

That is what Alex Martins and the DeVos family are DESPERATE to avoid. They want your money and people don't spend money on really bad sports products.

The Magic, unfortunately, have a much bigger problem than Jeff Weltman. It starts at the top.

There’s definitely some fundamental truth to this. But it seems like an oversimplification of the whole situation.

Per www.espn.com/nba/attendance our attendance has remained middling since 2015. Anecdotally, I don’t know many people who care about the Magic post-D12. Local TV ratings are up, but still abysmal. I imagine increased attendance may not even be Magic fans but opposing fans and tourists.


I’m sure market research analysts are much more knowledgeable than I am, and this insight is once again oversimplified, but it seems short term sacrifice leading to superior draft position and higher likelihood of drafting a star would be far more sustainable long term product? I mean, Mark Cuban came out and admitted they were tanking for Doncic lol. Stars run this league. Look at the only times this franchise has been relevant.

I think it’s quite possible another factor to consider that is factoring into the equation is that ownership/Martins know nothing about basketball and see the 8th seed and getting swept out of the first round as an accomplishment

My post was all over the place because I wrote it as it came to mind, the state of this team is depressing

[tiderulz]

:cry:

Says he believes the Bucks series would have gone differently if the Magic had Gordon, Carter-Williams, Bamba, Isaac and Aminu healthy

lol
delusional old man

It would have been

we would have played better. we still would have lost

[Knightro]

There’s definitely some fundamental truth to this. But it seems like an oversimplification of the whole situation.

Per www.espn.com/nba/attendance our attendance has remained middling since 2015. Anecdotally, I don’t know many people who care about the Magic post-D12. Local TV ratings are up, but still abysmal. I imagine increased attendance may not even be Magic fans but opposing fans and tourists.

I’m sure market research analysts are much more knowledgeable than I am, and this insight is once again oversimplified, but it seems short term sacrifice leading to superior draft position and higher likelihood of drafting a star would be far more sustainable long term product? I mean, Mark Cuban came out and admitted they were tanking for Doncic lol. Stars run this league. Look at the only times this franchise has been relevant.

I think it’s quite possible another factor to consider that is factoring into the equation is that ownership/Martins know nothing about basketball and see the 8th seed and getting swept out of the first round as an accomplishment

My post was all over the place because I wrote it as it came to mind, the state of this team is depressing

It's a very simplified look at things, I agree.

To simplify it even further...

The Magic's desire to field a competitive roster is overwhelmingly financially driven.

The team makes less money (they'd probably argue significantly less, but I'm skeptical of that) when the product on the court is REALLY bad compared to when the team is mediocre and make no mistake, this is all about the dollars for the DeVos family and Martins.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

There’s definitely some fundamental truth to this. But it seems like an oversimplification of the whole situation.

Per www.espn.com/nba/attendance our attendance has remained middling since 2015. Anecdotally, I don’t know many people who care about the Magic post-D12. Local TV ratings are up, but still abysmal. I imagine increased attendance may not even be Magic fans but opposing fans and tourists.

I’m sure market research analysts are much more knowledgeable than I am, and this insight is once again oversimplified, but it seems short term sacrifice leading to superior draft position and higher likelihood of drafting a star would be far more sustainable long term product? I mean, Mark Cuban came out and admitted they were tanking for Doncic lol. Stars run this league. Look at the only times this franchise has been relevant.

I think it’s quite possible another factor to consider that is factoring into the equation is that ownership/Martins know nothing about basketball and see the 8th seed and getting swept out of the first round as an accomplishment

My post was all over the place because I wrote it as it came to mind, the state of this team is depressing

It's a very simplified look at things, I agree.

To simplify it even further...

The Magic's desire to field a competitive roster is overwhelmingly financially driven.

The team makes less money (they'd probably argue significantly less, but I'm skeptical of that) when the product on the court is REALLY bad compared to when the team is mediocre and make no mistake, this is all about the dollars for the DeVos family and Martins.

There's sadly a strong contingent of high up season ticket holders who have loved every single thing the FO & Martins has done since Henny left. The ST events only confirm how crazy some people are and those people believe we're 1-2 pieces away from contending and that injuries have hurt us. There's a reason why Vuc wasn't traded even before his All Star season and its got a lot to do with old fans and the love affair with him. Luckily the dude has grown and showed up this playoff season, can't ask from much more from him. Unfortunately I see the same thing happening with Fournier and wouldn't be shocked if he's locked up when the time comes

[jonbob17]

I hope he was just being tight lipped, though it didn't seem like it.

[Def Swami]

We're essentially the John Hammond Bucks.

From 2008 to 2017, the Milwaukee Bucks had an average win record of 43%. They essentially hovered between 30 to 40 some wins every season, except for 2014, where they ended up with 15 wins. The Bucks never tanked or made any moves that would sacrifice the now for the future in that timespan. Even the year where they had 15 wins, the team simply sucked (we'll eventually have one of those if we continue down this path). The whole thing flips because they strike gold once in 2013 and draft Giannis at pick 15.

I think that's the plan here. To just keep treading water and eventually a miracle will land in their lap. It's kind of amazing that Hammond lasted so long in Milwaukee given how bad his history was there. Check is basketball reference page and it's just a murder's row of inconsequential moves that don't move the needle, a few egregiously bad ones, and a few good ones (Giannis, Middleton, and Brogdon). But, in 10 years, it came down to they got lucky with Giannis.

My fear has always been that Fultz is their miracle waiting to happen. And there is no real back up plan.

[VFX]

What’s hilarious is the built in excuse that they will always have regardless of the situation.

If they honestly believe any of this ****, then they are as dumb as I believed they were. If not, then why even do this interview if you aren’t going to give honest answers.

It’s a lose-lose for them. They are either completely delusional or will make me question everything they say moving forward if they actually do happen to make changes.

This isn’t a playoff roster, at full health or not. Everyone in the world knows this roster is capped and needs to make moves.

[Driguez]

[MartinsIzAfraud]

We're essentially the John Hammond Bucks.

From 2008 to 2017, the Milwaukee Bucks had an average win record of 43%. They essentially hovered between 30 to 40 some wins every season, except for 2014, where they ended up with 15 wins. The Bucks never tanked or made any moves that would sacrifice the now for the future in that timespan. Even the year where they had 15 wins, the team simply sucked (we'll eventually have one of those if we continue down this path). The whole thing flips because they strike gold once in 2013 and draft Giannis at pick 15.

I think that's the plan here. To just keep treading water and eventually a miracle will land in their lap. It's kind of amazing that Hammond lasted so long in Milwaukee given how bad his history was there. Check is basketball reference page and it's just a murder's row of inconsequential moves that don't move the needle, a few egregiously bad ones, and a few good ones (Giannis, Middleton, and Brogdon). But, in 10 years, it came down to they got lucky with Giannis.

My fear has always been that Fultz is their miracle waiting to happen. And there is no real back up plan.

It’s exactly what they’re doing and every 2nd round pick has been a Brogdan like copy with worse shooting. 4 year senior, minimal athletic ability, decent defender but needs offensive help.

[tiderulz]

We're essentially the John Hammond Bucks.

From 2008 to 2017, the Milwaukee Bucks had an average win record of 43%. They essentially hovered between 30 to 40 some wins every season, except for 2014, where they ended up with 15 wins. The Bucks never tanked or made any moves that would sacrifice the now for the future in that timespan. Even the year where they had 15 wins, the team simply sucked (we'll eventually have one of those if we continue down this path). The whole thing flips because they strike gold once in 2013 and draft Giannis at pick 15.

I think that's the plan here. To just keep treading water and eventually a miracle will land in their lap. It's kind of amazing that Hammond lasted so long in Milwaukee given how bad his history was there. Check is basketball reference page and it's just a murder's row of inconsequential moves that don't move the needle, a few egregiously bad ones, and a few good ones (Giannis, Middleton, and Brogdon). But, in 10 years, it came down to they got lucky with Giannis.

My fear has always been that Fultz is their miracle waiting to happen. And there is no real back up plan.

It’s exactly what they’re doing and every 2nd round pick has been a Brogdan like copy with worse shooting. 4 year senior, minimal athletic ability, decent defender but needs offensive help.

have they?
Frazier - 3 year college player

Strengths: Rare physical specimen with tremendous length … High level athlete … Hit 12’1.5 on his max vert, the highest of anyone at the 2018 NBA draft combine …

Justin Jackson - 2 years at Maryland

Strengths: Has ideal size for a small forward, standing 6’7” with a 7’2 wingspan and weighing in at 225 pounds … Possesses the athletic gifts that should entice teams to give him a hard look

Iwundu i would agree with. and yes, neither Frazier nor Jackson were good shooters, but they were both touted as very good athletes

[MagicStarwipe]

There’s definitely some fundamental truth to this. But it seems like an oversimplification of the whole situation.

Per www.espn.com/nba/attendance our attendance has remained middling since 2015. Anecdotally, I don’t know many people who care about the Magic post-D12. Local TV ratings are up, but still abysmal. I imagine increased attendance may not even be Magic fans but opposing fans and tourists.

I’m sure market research analysts are much more knowledgeable than I am, and this insight is once again oversimplified, but it seems short term sacrifice leading to superior draft position and higher likelihood of drafting a star would be far more sustainable long term product? I mean, Mark Cuban came out and admitted they were tanking for Doncic lol. Stars run this league. Look at the only times this franchise has been relevant.

I think it’s quite possible another factor to consider that is factoring into the equation is that ownership/Martins know nothing about basketball and see the 8th seed and getting swept out of the first round as an accomplishment

My post was all over the place because I wrote it as it came to mind, the state of this team is depressing

It's a very simplified look at things, I agree.

To simplify it even further...

The Magic's desire to field a competitive roster is overwhelmingly financially driven.

The team makes less money (they'd probably argue significantly less, but I'm skeptical of that) when the product on the court is REALLY bad compared to when the team is mediocre and make no mistake, this is all about the dollars for the DeVos family and Martins.

There's sadly a strong contingent of high up season ticket holders who have loved every single thing the FO & Martins has done since Henny left. The ST events only confirm how crazy some people are and those people believe we're 1-2 pieces away from contending and that injuries have hurt us. There's a reason why Vuc wasn't traded even before his All Star season and its got a lot to do with old fans and the love affair with him. Luckily the dude has grown and showed up this playoff season, can't ask from much more from him. Unfortunately I see the same thing happening with Fournier and wouldn't be shocked if he's locked up when the time comes

Seems like they are more concerned with keeping up a wholesome conservative image than building a great team. The nice polite wouldn't put a foot wrong white Vucevic is a much preferable ambassoder than the cheerleader banging, multiple baby out of wedlock to multiple women black Dwight Howard.

[Kent]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not a WeHam apologist and definitely not one for Martins.

That said, we have no idea what this FO has attempted to pull off and been offered from other teams.

We as fans are only judging them by the on-court product. Before you jump on me here, I'm not saying we're wrong to do that.

But — I said it elsewhere... making changes to make changes isn't a sound strategy. Hennigan made this mistake and it bit us.

Somewhere the discussion turned to the team wanting to make money. That's natural, as professional sports is a business after all.

To think that ownership would prefer to keep a steady ship and hover at the 8 spot versus make any drastic changes at all does not support that argument.

The money that can be made going deeper in the playoffs and getting worldwide exposure doesn't only put more money in their pockets now but drives up the value of the franchise, long-term.

Granted, bottoming out means short-term loss and not every business is willing to take that chance when it doesn't guarantee you a change in fortune.

We tried that recently, remember? (Oladipo, Gordon, Payton)

Sure, we got lucky before but the rules have changed post-The Process.

But to act like that's the ONLY way to go from here to become a championship contender is madness.

The front office's job is to improve the team.

You're kidding yourself if the brass (WeHam, Martin's, DeVos, etc.) is content with where this team is at compared to where we were over 10 years ago.

Professional sports is a weird animal — you have drafts, free agency, trades, a regular season, and playoff. You can't always make huge strides in just one-season stretches.

It's a long game, in other words.

And you do your best to position yourself with maximum opportunity and wiggle room (see Boston Celtics).

Guys get better. Guys get worse. Diamonds in the rough are uncovered. Trades can come off as lopsided with time.

That's all to say that there is luck involved.

Personally, I'd rather be in play for the 7-8 seeds for a few years so that when we do catch a break, we can be right in the thick of it... versus what we could be experiencing as a Kings or Knicks fan (with respect).

In summary, I'm not saying bottoming out isn't a good strategy. Just that it's not the only one.

And just because we aren't making wholesale moves every year, it doesn't mean it compromises our ability to strike on a really great deal or two to get us right back where we want to be.

Even if we have to stay the course for as long as it takes for that opportunity to present itself.