Is Kevin Knox a Keeper or a Bust?

blueNorange · Post #81 » by **blueNorange** » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:29 pm

Juco24 wrote:Watching these playoffs as a whole... I think it would be wise to move Knox to the 4. I'm not a Knox fan but if you can trade Randle- why not play Knox @ the 4? It's his best chance for success imo

many reasons

1. terrible rebounder
2. terrible defender
3. is a pussy

blueNorange · Post #82 » by **blueNorange** » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:30 pm

jermsknicks wrote:I didn't want to draft him, but then Summer League Knox made me a believer.

Watching teams in the bubble just made me realize we are years away from competing. We need to develop and resign our draft picks and he is one of them.

Next year, we are probably going to draft some kids out of highschool. If he doesn't become a star after year 2, are we going to just let him walk and become a star somewhere else?

We have to develop our guys and play them. No more signing journeymen to take the spot of the guys we need to develop. Don't get me wrong, there are busts in the league, I just don't think Knox is one of them.

summer league is filled with guys who have as much talent as you, me, and everyone else on here.

blueNorange · Post #83 » by **blueNorange** » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:33 pm

NYKAL wrote:
Jimmit79 wrote:BUST fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

the only one who fooled you was the Knicks organization and their lack of a developmental staff WHICH, we did not have before

knicks development has nothing to do with knox being bad.

knox was only drafted because fizdale saw him 1 on 1 during workouts.

NYKAL · Post #84 » by **NYKAL** » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:20 pm

blueNorange wrote:
NYKAL wrote:
Jimmit79 wrote:BUST fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

the only one who fooled you was the Knicks organization and their lack of a developmental staff WHICH, we did not have before

knicks development has nothing to do with knox being bad.

knox was only drafted because fizdale saw him 1 on 1 during workouts.

BAD is a subjective term. Kawhi had no jumper when he came into the league. Not saying he compares but, it shows that development can go a long way. Derozan had no jumper when he came into the league.

I fully believe Knox would have made a big leap this season had 2 things happened:

1 We had a developmental staff to work with him WHICH we did not so, he was left to work on his own which if anything will reinforce his bad habits.

2. Not signing Morris. Knox to me looked good enough in pre-season to get the starters spot. It would have been far BETTER for his confidence than signing a Vet to play ahead of him.

Juco24 · Post #85 » by **Juco24** » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:30 pm

blueNorange wrote:
Juco24 wrote:Watching these playoffs as a whole... I think it would be wise to move Knox to the 4. I'm not a Knox fan but if you can trade Randle- why not play Knox @ the 4? It's his best chance for success imo

many reasons

1. terrible rebounder
2. terrible defender
3. is a pussy

Montmorencie · Post #86 » by **Montmorencie** » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:22 pm

He is the worst among many bad players and the bar is set really high in that department.

Chanel Bomber · Post #87 » by **Chanel Bomber** » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:51 pm

Sethaholic16 wrote:http://www.tankathon.com/players/kevin-knox

And this is why you don't ignore analytics when drafting players

« Analytics are just another tool in the tool box » - Scott Perry.

I knew we were screwed then.

The biggest reason for the demise of this franchise since 2013 has been its disdain for analytics. It’s the one common denominator between James Dolan, Phil Jackson, Steve Mills and Scott Perry. I don’t have high hopes for this new regime either tbh.

Jump Shot · Post #88 » by **Jump Shot** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:28 am

I take chits that are tougher than Kevin Knox.

This guy is king of the trash heap players. He's a bum of the highest order.

knicks94 · Post #89 » by **knicks94** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:42 am

I think Knox can succeed being casted as a Monstar in the Space Jam sequel.

KnicksGadfly · Post #90 » by **KnicksGadfly** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:28 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
Sethaholic16 wrote:http://www.tankathon.com/players/kevin-knox

And this is why you don't ignore analytics when drafting players

« Analytics are just another tool in the tool box » - Scott Perry.

I knew we were screwed then.

The biggest reason for the demise of this franchise since 2013 has been its disdain for analytics. It’s the one common denominator between James Dolan, Phil Jackson, Steve Mills and Scott Perry. I don’t have high hopes for this new regime either tbh.

Nah...the quote was right. Analytics is a tool in the toolbox. You still gotta measure character (making sure dude doesn't get arrested), health (making sure dude doesn't get hurt every game), why an analytical model is recommending a player (so you don't get Joey Dorsey), why one model might not be good (PER), etc.

It's just that yea, they didn't care about it. Also, they saw a workout and got a huge boner. Too much arrogance. I also can't trust a small number of eyetests---people are too prone to their biases. The same posters who recommend DSJ are the same posters who recommended Sexton. Bust bust bust. But I think if we expand the number of eyetests, seek dissenting opinions, eliminating groupthink...they can have value.

3toheadmelo · Post #91 » by **3toheadmelo** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:53 am

KnicksGadfly wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
Sethaholic16 wrote:http://www.tankathon.com/players/kevin-knox

And this is why you don't ignore analytics when drafting players

« Analytics are just another tool in the tool box » - Scott Perry.

I knew we were screwed then.

The biggest reason for the demise of this franchise since 2013 has been its disdain for analytics. It’s the one common denominator between James Dolan, Phil Jackson, Steve Mills and Scott Perry. I don’t have high hopes for this new regime either tbh.

Nah...the quote was right. Analytics is a tool in the toolbox. You still gotta measure character (making sure dude doesn't get arrested), health (making sure dude doesn't get hurt every game), why an analytical model is recommending a player (so you don't get Joey Dorsey), why one model might not be good (PER), etc.

It's just that yea, they didn't care about it. Also, they saw a workout and got a huge boner. Too much arrogance. I also can't trust a small number of eyetests---people are too prone to their biases. The same posters who recommend DSJ are the same posters who recommended Sexton. Bust bust bust. But I think if we expand the number of eyetests, seek dissenting opinions, eliminating groupthink...they can have value.

Since when was Sexton a bust? He’s averaging 21 PPG on 47/38/85 splits. He’d easily be our best guard, despite his short comings as a true PG.

Hes_On_Fire · Post #92 » by **Hes_On_Fire** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:14 am

Nbabrothers wrote:He has great upside but have we seen enough of Knox to evaluate him as a bust?

No he doesn’t.

Hes_On_Fire · Post #93 » by **Hes_On_Fire** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:24 am

Fizdale never drafted Knox.

Perry (and Mills) did.

Don’t change the narrative.

Fat · Post #94 » by **Fat** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:50 am

He probably doesn’t even use himself in 2k

spree2kawhi · Post #95 » by **spree2kawhi** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:30 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:« Analytics are just another tool in the tool box » - Scott Perry.

I knew we were screwed then.

The biggest reason for the demise of this franchise since 2013 has been its disdain for analytics. It’s the one common denominator between James Dolan, Phil Jackson, Steve Mills and Scott Perry. I don’t have high hopes for this new regime either tbh.

Nah...the quote was right. Analytics is a tool in the toolbox. You still gotta measure character (making sure dude doesn't get arrested), health (making sure dude doesn't get hurt every game), why an analytical model is recommending a player (so you don't get Joey Dorsey), why one model might not be good (PER), etc.

It's just that yea, they didn't care about it. Also, they saw a workout and got a huge boner. Too much arrogance. I also can't trust a small number of eyetests---people are too prone to their biases. The same posters who recommend DSJ are the same posters who recommended Sexton. Bust bust bust. But I think if we expand the number of eyetests, seek dissenting opinions, eliminating groupthink...they can have value.

Since when was Sexton a bust? He’s averaging 21 PPG on 47/38/85 splits. He’d easily be our best guard, despite his short comings as a true PG.

I'd trade for him and love.

Sexton
Frank
RJ
Love
Mitch

So far, so good...

spree2kawhi · Post #96 » by **spree2kawhi** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:33 am

Let's watch what Knox does coming into the next year. He's still a long shooter who can handle the ball and even create out of the pick and roll. I also don't think a Kuzma or MPJ is a much tougher player.

I know many will disagree, but the potential is there.

KnicksGadfly · Post #97 » by **KnicksGadfly** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:41 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:« Analytics are just another tool in the tool box » - Scott Perry.

I knew we were screwed then.

The biggest reason for the demise of this franchise since 2013 has been its disdain for analytics. It’s the one common denominator between James Dolan, Phil Jackson, Steve Mills and Scott Perry. I don’t have high hopes for this new regime either tbh.

Nah...the quote was right. Analytics is a tool in the toolbox. You still gotta measure character (making sure dude doesn't get arrested), health (making sure dude doesn't get hurt every game), why an analytical model is recommending a player (so you don't get Joey Dorsey), why one model might not be good (PER), etc.

It's just that yea, they didn't care about it. Also, they saw a workout and got a huge boner. Too much arrogance. I also can't trust a small number of eyetests---people are too prone to their biases. The same posters who recommend DSJ are the same posters who recommended Sexton. Bust bust bust. But I think if we expand the number of eyetests, seek dissenting opinions, eliminating groupthink...they can have value.

Since when was Sexton a bust? He’s averaging 21 PPG on 47/38/85 splits. He’d easily be our best guard, despite his short comings as a true PG.

You're right. He would be our best guard, but man, that ain't saying much. Hell, it might even be my own bias. I know if RJ put up those numbers, I'd be going nuts right now. So yea, I have to be aware of my own scouting issues and be more humble.

Maybe bust is too strong a word---he ain't Bargs or Bennett. At the same time, I wouldn't categorize him as a stud or a HR. I think the goal of every team is to get a chip. Where Sexton was drafted, I think you're hoping for a lead guard for a contender, or at least a starter level player on a championship level team. Sexton has 2 shortcomings. He's not a true PG, which is not a deal-breaker, but he's really FAR from a true PG in that he overdribbles and can't see, and that's a problem. Moreover, he has defensive shortcomings. I guess Cleveland could try to build around him. Sexton PG, floor spacer, role player/point forward/lead ball handler, role player, role player, with a 2nd option sprinkled in, but best case scenario for me is 6th man. That's not a bad result for him. Still, that ain't what Cleveland needs.

That's my point with guys like DSJ and Sexton. Both guys came in with similar worries. Defense, offense first, questionable shots. Sexton improved that shot, which is impressive, but unless he seriously breaks through somehow, he's gonna be at the 6th man slot. I don't think improving a shot is that easy...how many players in this league would be amazing if they had a shot? Giannis, Simmons, Frank, Westbrook, Rondo, Dort, Randle, etc...all these guys, you know they work hard and still can't do it. Give them a shot and a lot of them jump so many levels. What is Kawhi Leonard without a shot? What is Jaylen Brown without a shot? But with Sexton, he developed a shot...and his scenario is 6th man? A bit disappointing. DSJ didn't, and now he's where he is. The thing is, I think you can sorta project this. Yes, if these guys hit their potentials as playmakers, then it can be amazing. Most likely, though, they're not going to hit that level. And if they don't hit that level, what is their role?

That's where scouting and analytics both come in, I guess. How do you separate these guys? At some point, I can handle 1, maybe 2 big weaknesses. But if a prospect has several glaring weaknesses in playmaking, defense and possibly shooting, that's a shat-ton to deal with.

KnicksGadfly · Post #98 » by **KnicksGadfly** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:49 am

spree2kawhi wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:
Nah...the quote was right. Analytics is a tool in the toolbox. You still gotta measure character (making sure dude doesn't get arrested), health (making sure dude doesn't get hurt every game), why an analytical model is recommending a player (so you don't get Joey Dorsey), why one model might not be good (PER), etc.

It's just that yea, they didn't care about it. Also, they saw a workout and got a huge boner. Too much arrogance. I also can't trust a small number of eyetests---people are too prone to their biases. The same posters who recommend DSJ are the same posters who recommended Sexton. Bust bust bust. But I think if we expand the number of eyetests, seek dissenting opinions, eliminating groupthink...they can have value.

Since when was Sexton a bust? He’s averaging 21 PPG on 47/38/85 splits. He’d easily be our best guard, despite his short comings as a true PG.

I'd trade for him and love.

Sexton
Frank
RJ
Love
Mitch

So far, so good...

I'd want a PG and a new SG for that lineup. Frank is no go if he can't shoot. Sexton no go if he can't make plays. Oh and some compensation if we're taking Love.

Vet PG
Dotson/Bullock
RJ
Love
Mitch

Off the bench:
Sexton
Frank

Thibs would probably do wonders with Sexton in that way. He's done it before.

FutureKnicksGM · Post #99 » by **FutureKnicksGM** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:51 am

I thought he improved some - defense, decision making, shot selection (while still not being good in any of these areas), while his shot fell off. I think his shot returns, and if he plays the 4 he still has a chance to develop.

Juco24 · Post #100 » by **Juco24** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:00 am

FutureKnicksGM wrote:I thought he improved some - defense, decision making, shot selection (while still not being good in any of these areas), while his shot fell off. I think his shot returns, and if he plays the 4 he still has a chance to develop.

We're in the minority but I do agree. Dude just turned 21 and now has Kenny P to help with his growth. Coach Cal said he'd struggle initially. Based on that... I'm still hopeful. Maybe not confident but hopeful