Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

[Xatticus]

Here is what I think the Magic FO is hoping will happen, and that is the 'young core' of Isaac, Bamba, Fultz and Okeke will develop into the same players in 2-3 years regardless of what actual game minutes they get right now, and they are sold on the idea of developing behind vets and 'playing meangingful games' at the end of the season to assist in that.

So you could have a situation where you dump Vuc/Evan/AG/Ross and blood the 'young core', and the Magic blow hard for 2-3 years and then the 'young core' either blossom or they stink and we move on

Or

You keep Vuc/Evan/AG/Ross, the Magic are fringe playoff team for 2-3 years, and then the 'young core' either blossom or they stink and we move on.

Ie in 2-3 years we depend on those guys and are in the same spot regardless, so why suck in the meantime.

Again, I am not suggesting this is the correct approach, but I imagine it's what the FO are thinking when they look at possible paths forward.

The truly unfortunate state about this current situation is that our young core is such a mystery. There is no doubting the boatload of potential that exists there. But as of now, it's nearly just that: potential.

JI's ballhandling, shooting, and confidence improvements along with his elite defensive attributes make him a prospective cornerstone piece for a franchise, but he can't catch a break with injuries.
Markelle made HUGE strides this season, but still, his play painted him as more of an average starter or solid backup. That's not to say he won't continue to improve, I think he will, but that's the reality of where we are now.
Chuma was projected to be a lottery pick before he tore his ACL. There some Michael Porter Jr. potential there, but it's still just unknown.
Bamba was considered a top 5 draft talent who had the physical attributes and shooting mechanics to be a starting center in today's NBA, but much like Isaac, he's been unable to stay healthy.


These are all guys who could be game-changers for a franchise but seem to have an equal chance, at this point of being in the bust-average range. The franchise is in a fog right now; stuck between the known of the old guard and the unknown of its youth. There is reason for optimism, but it's hard to make it out clearly. Despair seems like it's right in front of our faces, and that's hard to shake as a fan of a team who's been stuck in no-man's-land for so long.

You can always look glass half full or glass half empty:

1. Glass half empty- our young core will never be good enough to compete, and our veterans will only take us into first round of playoffs. By playing veterans we are hurting young players development, and we are losing on lottery picks. Young players will revolt against having smaller roles.

2.Glass half full- we are making the playoffs despite having many raw young players in rotation, players we knew they were multi year projects. We are teaching them the winning habits in roles they can succed in. We are good enough to sign veterans on team friendly deals. We are drafting in the middle of first round where talent is still high but contracts much lower. Our players have higher value around the league and we can move them when opportunity comes.

This isn't about optimism versus pessimism.

Stating that this roster is balanced is absurd. We have zero competent playmakers. We have scarcely any shooting. Perhaps he is referring to height? ...or ethnicity?

Implying that the outcome of the series might've been different, but for injuries, is simply delusional.





-That glass is half full.

[pepe1991]

The truly unfortunate state about this current situation is that our young core is such a mystery. There is no doubting the boatload of potential that exists there. But as of now, it's nearly just that: potential.

JI's ballhandling, shooting, and confidence improvements along with his elite defensive attributes make him a prospective cornerstone piece for a franchise, but he can't catch a break with injuries.
Markelle made HUGE strides this season, but still, his play painted him as more of an average starter or solid backup. That's not to say he won't continue to improve, I think he will, but that's the reality of where we are now.
Chuma was projected to be a lottery pick before he tore his ACL. There some Michael Porter Jr. potential there, but it's still just unknown.
Bamba was considered a top 5 draft talent who had the physical attributes and shooting mechanics to be a starting center in today's NBA, but much like Isaac, he's been unable to stay healthy.


These are all guys who could be game-changers for a franchise but seem to have an equal chance, at this point of being in the bust-average range. The franchise is in a fog right now; stuck between the known of the old guard and the unknown of its youth. There is reason for optimism, but it's hard to make it out clearly. Despair seems like it's right in front of our faces, and that's hard to shake as a fan of a team who's been stuck in no-man's-land for so long.

You can always look glass half full or glass half empty:

1. Glass half empty- our young core will never be good enough to compete, and our veterans will only take us into first round of playoffs. By playing veterans we are hurting young players development, and we are losing on lottery picks. Young players will revolt against having smaller roles.

2.Glass half full- we are making the playoffs despite having many raw young players in rotation, players we knew they were multi year projects. We are teaching them the winning habits in roles they can succed in. We are good enough to sign veterans on team friendly deals. We are drafting in the middle of first round where talent is still high but contracts much lower. Our players have higher value around the league and we can move them when opportunity comes.

This isn't about optimism versus pessimism.

Stating that this roster is balanced is absurd. We have zero competent playmakers. We have scarcely any shooting. Perhaps he is referring to height? ...or ethnicity?

Implying that the outcome of the series might've been different, but for injuries, is simply delusional.





-That glass is half full.

Magic lack of shooting is beyond hopless on current roster.

Magic were 14# among team with most wide open 3s taken. But... they are 3rd worst in making open 3s.

On whole roster nobody but Evan menaged to shoot 3s even at league's average level last year ( 35,8%).

What this roster is, is homless version of Toronto Raptors, without Nurse, without Lowry, without Siakam. They just follow same " in playoffs they will be able to switch on defense all positions" logic, while failing to understand that offense also needs to do something in order ot keep them in games. And where Raptors have 6 times allstar Lowry, emerging players like Siakam and Anunboy and scoring punch from Vleet, Magic have Vuc and bunch of replacment level talents that are nowhere near talented defenders nor have required skills to fill needs of modern offense.

[cedric76]

You can always look glass half full or glass half empty:

1. Glass half empty- our young core will never be good enough to compete, and our veterans will only take us into first round of playoffs. By playing veterans we are hurting young players development, and we are losing on lottery picks. Young players will revolt against having smaller roles.

2.Glass half full- we are making the playoffs despite having many raw young players in rotation, players we knew they were multi year projects. We are teaching them the winning habits in roles they can succed in. We are good enough to sign veterans on team friendly deals. We are drafting in the middle of first round where talent is still high but contracts much lower. Our players have higher value around the league and we can move them when opportunity comes.

This isn't about optimism versus pessimism.

Stating that this roster is balanced is absurd. We have zero competent playmakers. We have scarcely any shooting. Perhaps he is referring to height? ...or ethnicity?

Implying that the outcome of the series might've been different, but for injuries, is simply delusional.





-That glass is half full.

Magic lack of shooting is beyond hopless on current roster.

Magic were 14# among team with most wide open 3s taken. But... they are 3rd worst in making open 3s.

On whole roster nobody but Evan menaged to shoot 3s even at league's average level last year ( 35,8%).

What this roster is, is homless version of Toronto Raptors, without Nurse, without Lowry, without Siakam. They just follow same " in playoffs they will be able to switch on defense all positions" logic, while failing to understand that offense also needs to do something in order ot keep them in games. And where Raptors have 6 times allstar Lowry, emerging players like Siakam and Anunboy and scoring punch from Vleet, Magic have Vuc and bunch of replacment level talents that are nowhere near talented defenders nor have required skills to fill needs of modern offense.

I love how this team is built

Strong defense, multi positional defenders, this team will prove us all wrong. Go Magic

[cedric76]

FYI, Evan is having hair implants today so he ll have a huge year next season, our future is bright

Confidence + 10

Just kidding, he went to the hairdresser as he deiced to go Bald Full time

[zaymon]

You can always look glass half full or glass half empty:

1. Glass half empty- our young core will never be good enough to compete, and our veterans will only take us into first round of playoffs. By playing veterans we are hurting young players development, and we are losing on lottery picks. Young players will revolt against having smaller roles.

2.Glass half full- we are making the playoffs despite having many raw young players in rotation, players we knew they were multi year projects. We are teaching them the winning habits in roles they can succed in. We are good enough to sign veterans on team friendly deals. We are drafting in the middle of first round where talent is still high but contracts much lower. Our players have higher value around the league and we can move them when opportunity comes.

This isn't about optimism versus pessimism.

Stating that this roster is balanced is absurd. We have zero competent playmakers. We have scarcely any shooting. Perhaps he is referring to height? ...or ethnicity?

Implying that the outcome of the series might've been different, but for injuries, is simply delusional.





-That glass is half full.

Magic lack of shooting is beyond hopless on current roster.

Magic were 14# among team with most wide open 3s taken. But... they are 3rd worst in making open 3s.

On whole roster nobody but Evan menaged to shoot 3s even at league's average level last year ( 35,8%).

What this roster is, is homless version of Toronto Raptors, without Nurse, without Lowry, without Siakam. They just follow same " in playoffs they will be able to switch on defense all positions" logic, while failing to understand that offense also needs to do something in order ot keep them in games. And where Raptors have 6 times allstar Lowry, emerging players like Siakam and Anunboy and scoring punch from Vleet, Magic have Vuc and bunch of replacment level talents that are nowhere near talented defenders nor have required skills to fill needs of modern offense.

Well thats the look of a glass if our goal is to win championship in next 2 years Going optimistic route, if Okeke is really 39 % three point shooter, Vucevic is shooting more like in po, and Fournier opts in we will potentially have 3 above average shooters, 1 average shooter and Fultz in our starting lineup. Biggest deficit will be playmaking depending on Fultz development, but having Vucevic is enormous advantage over other teams.
From bench Dj if he resigns, Ross, Clark, Bamba. All average to good shooters. We will also have our pick ? Some good shooters available there. Trading AG for playmaker would do wonders, maybe Hayes ?

[pepe1991]

Am i only one who don't expects Okeke to do better than 8 ppg, 34% for 3 in rookie year ?

[pepe1991]

This isn't about optimism versus pessimism.

Stating that this roster is balanced is absurd. We have zero competent playmakers. We have scarcely any shooting. Perhaps he is referring to height? ...or ethnicity?

Implying that the outcome of the series might've been different, but for injuries, is simply delusional.





-That glass is half full.

Magic lack of shooting is beyond hopless on current roster.

Magic were 14# among team with most wide open 3s taken. But... they are 3rd worst in making open 3s.

On whole roster nobody but Evan menaged to shoot 3s even at league's average level last year ( 35,8%).

What this roster is, is homless version of Toronto Raptors, without Nurse, without Lowry, without Siakam. They just follow same " in playoffs they will be able to switch on defense all positions" logic, while failing to understand that offense also needs to do something in order ot keep them in games. And where Raptors have 6 times allstar Lowry, emerging players like Siakam and Anunboy and scoring punch from Vleet, Magic have Vuc and bunch of replacment level talents that are nowhere near talented defenders nor have required skills to fill needs of modern offense.

Well thats the look of a glass if our goal is to win championship in next 2 years Going optimistic route, if Okeke is really 39 % three point shooter, Vucevic is shooting more like in po, and Fournier opts in we will potentially have 3 above average shooters, 1 average shooter and Fultz in our starting lineup. Biggest deficit will be playmaking depending on Fultz development, but having Vucevic is enormous advantage over other teams.
From bench Dj if he resigns, Ross, Clark, Bamba. All average to good shooters. We will also have our pick ? Some good shooters available there. Trading AG for playmaker would do wonders, maybe Hayes ?

Going objective rout. Team without any major injuries won 42 games. Year later with some injuries fell below .500.
Best player is 30. Best young player won't play for one year.
Team is capped out for next 2 years.

Magic only enormous adventage over other teams is zero interest from media and fans to make pressure on front office and ownership to take responsibility for incompetence last 8 years.

Magic receive: Arron Afflalo, Al Harrington, a 2013 second round pick that would turn out to be Romero Osby and a 2014 first round pick that would turn out to be Dario Saric (from Denver), Christian Eyenga, Josh McRoberts and a 2017 first round pick that would become second round picks Wesley Iwundu and Rodions Kurucs (from Los Angeles), Nikola Vucevic, Mo Harkless and a 2017 first round pick that would become De’Aron Fox (from Philadelphia)

So out of all pointless assets and salray fillers , due horrific asset menagment Saric was flipped to Payton and potential Fox pick was lost in shuffle. And this was trade that was going to kickstart rebuild. Instad, it did nothing.

Talking about media not giving a flying F about a team, how is possible that nobody confronts Weltman about Bamba show he made? They said he has lasting COVID 19 issues that don't allow him to recover and practice. Ok sounds convincing. Long term danger from recovery and career in jeopardy? It will take years to know, right? NAAAH, 4 days after Magic are eliminated from playoffs team announces Bamba is cleared to practice. How convincing timeline.

Or the time when team official Isaac return was 4 to 8 weeks... that turned into 7 months. Anybody asked hard questions form media? Naah.
Aminu recovery? naah.

As long as fansided reporters have exclusive enterence in lockeroom they are writing love letters about a team that didn't pass first round of playoffs since 2010. On East.

[Skybox]

You can always look glass half full or glass half empty:

1. Glass half empty- our young core will never be good enough to compete, and our veterans will only take us into first round of playoffs. By playing veterans we are hurting young players development, and we are losing on lottery picks. Young players will revolt against having smaller roles.

2.Glass half full- we are making the playoffs despite having many raw young players in rotation, players we knew they were multi year projects. We are teaching them the winning habits in roles they can succed in. We are good enough to sign veterans on team friendly deals. We are drafting in the middle of first round where talent is still high but contracts much lower. Our players have higher value around the league and we can move them when opportunity comes.

This isn't about optimism versus pessimism.

Stating that this roster is balanced is absurd. We have zero competent playmakers. We have scarcely any shooting. Perhaps he is referring to height? ...or ethnicity?

Implying that the outcome of the series might've been different, but for injuries, is simply delusional.





-That glass is half full.

Magic lack of shooting is beyond hopless on current roster.

Magic were 14# among team with most wide open 3s taken. But... they are 3rd worst in making open 3s.

On whole roster nobody but Evan menaged to shoot 3s even at league's average level last year ( 35,8%).

What this roster is, is homless version of Toronto Raptors, without Nurse, without Lowry, without Siakam. They just follow same " in playoffs they will be able to switch on defense all positions" logic, while failing to understand that offense also needs to do something in order ot keep them in games. And where Raptors have 6 times allstar Lowry, emerging players like Siakam and Anunboy and scoring punch from Vleet, Magic have Vuc and bunch of replacment level talents that are nowhere near talented defenders nor have required skills to fill needs of modern offense.

I don't agree with you Pepe but I have to salute you for "Homeless version of Toronto Raptors"...Bravo

[dckingsfan]

Because Isaac, Bamba and Okeke are theoretically the right type of players to build around Fultz. If we can only move on and build around THAT core, then I'd be happy to wait for the results without needing to win now. I don't fear the future we have with our current youngsters. I may get there one day but that day isn't here yet.

To that end - would a Rui Hachimura for Bamba trade make any sense?

Any comment on this?

Or on

Ish Smith, Jerome Robinson and our #9 for Bamba, Aminu, your #15?

[Skybox]

Because Isaac, Bamba and Okeke are theoretically the right type of players to build around Fultz. If we can only move on and build around THAT core, then I'd be happy to wait for the results without needing to win now. I don't fear the future we have with our current youngsters. I may get there one day but that day isn't here yet.

To that end - would a Rui Hachimura for Bamba trade make any sense?

Any comment on this?

Or on

Ish Smith, Jerome Robinson and our #9 for Bamba, Aminu, your #15?

First glance at Hachimura suggests he doesn’t do anything as well as AG...not score, not 3pt %, not reb, not assists, not D...what am I not seeing? Is he expected to be a better shooter in near future?

[Xatticus]

Because Isaac, Bamba and Okeke are theoretically the right type of players to build around Fultz. If we can only move on and build around THAT core, then I'd be happy to wait for the results without needing to win now. I don't fear the future we have with our current youngsters. I may get there one day but that day isn't here yet.

To that end - would a Rui Hachimura for Bamba trade make any sense?

Any comment on this?

Or on

Ish Smith, Jerome Robinson and our #9 for Bamba, Aminu, your #15?

I don't see the appeal of a Hachimura for Bamba swap. I don't get the impression that our front office is really committed to seeing through Bamba's development at this point, but Hachimura adds nothing we need and I'm not sure he'd really ever see the floor for us. Even with Isaac out for the year, he'd be behind Gordon and Okeke. He's rather awful right now and I just don't see much upside.

As for the second proposal... sure? If our front office likes someone that is still available when your pick comes up (Hayes?), then I don't see any reason why they wouldn't do this. I think Clifford is mandated to find minutes for Bamba, but I don't think he really wants to play him. I think the front office would be fine moving on from him if they could figure out a way to spin it as a positive instead of a straight dump. I'm sure they'd be happy to nab Smith if they can't retain Augustin.

[j-ragg]

I wouldn’t be opposed to a young wing for Bamba trade at all. I just don’t think Rui is the guy. Not a floor spacer (like most others in Orlando), not a stopper on defense.

I think his ability to create a shot would be semi useful fwiw. But I was just never a big fan of his game.

[dckingsfan]

To that end - would a Rui Hachimura for Bamba trade make any sense?

Any comment on this?

Or on

Ish Smith, Jerome Robinson and our #9 for Bamba, Aminu, your #15?

I don't see the appeal of a Hachimura for Bamba swap. I don't get the impression that our front office is really committed to seeing through Bamba's development at this point, but Hachimura adds nothing we need and I'm not sure he'd really ever see the floor for us. Even with Isaac out for the year, he'd be behind Gordon and Okeke. He's rather awful right now and I just don't see much upside.

As for the second proposal... sure? If our front office likes someone that is still available when your pick comes up (Hayes?), then I don't see any reason why they wouldn't do this. I think Clifford is mandated to find minutes for Bamba, but I don't think he really wants to play him. I think the front office would be fine moving on from him if they could figure out a way to spin it as a positive instead of a straight dump. I'm sure they'd be happy to nab Smith if they can't retain Augustin.

Interesting - the second trade is the one that is preferred on our board as well.

[tiderulz]

Am i only one who don't expects Okeke to do better than 8 ppg, 34% for 3 in rookie year ?

i expect him to do better than that. if he shows the hustle he did in college, he can do 10ppg just on that hustle.

[zaymon]

Going objective rout. Team without any major injuries won 42 games. Year later with some injuries fell below .500.
Best player is 30. Best young player won't play for one year.
Team is capped out for next 2 years.

Lets go the objective route together. This year we were close to 0.500 with:

1. 21 year old point guard who played sparingly for the last 2 years, and didnt even shoot until late in the summer.

2. Ill- fitting forward rotation, one of whom is not a good starter and we already have replacement for (Gordon), second is still very young, raw, and was injured most of the time (Isaac).

3. Giving rotation spot to center who is not ready to play from physical and skill stand point (Bamba)

4. One of the worst injury luck in the whole league (Vucevic, Dj, MCW, Isaac, Gordon, Aminu)

5. Season stopping right when we entered our easiest part.

Why are we so hard on ourselves ? I know we are not giving ourselves benefit of the doubt becouse this group never achieved anything but the number of things we can improve on next year is staggering. Lets even assume Fultz doesnt develop and we change our rotation by drafting Lewis. Lewis/Fournier/Okeke/Aminu/Vucevic. This lineup is vastly different from current group. There is shooting from every position (average to good), potential to break defense of the dribble (Lewis speed + everyone being able to attack close out). Now imagine Ross for Aminu. In this scenario we still have Gordon to trade (and Isaac in the future). I dont think we will be contenders next year but i can see many potential scenarios to make us exciting and potentially dangerous against every team once again.

[j-ragg]

lol ah yes soon as Gordon is gone we will go back to 50+ win seasons.

[MagicMatic]

lol ah yes soon as Gordon is gone we will go back to 50+ win seasons.

It’s a catch 22. On one hand you know your getting something for Gordon. On the other, you are admitting to playing through Vuc for the foreseeable future.

[zaymon]

lol ah yes soon as Gordon is gone we will go back to 50+ win seasons.

It’s a catch 22. On one hand you know your getting something for Gordon. On the other, you are admitting to playing through Vuc for the foreseeable future.

Guy was literally unplayable from october to january. Thats 42 games. Not being able to handle the ball, not being able to spot up. Only things he could do were post ups and transition and we only used him there to make him feel better about himself becouse he was in 50 percentile, your average joe.

[Skin]

Because Isaac, Bamba and Okeke are theoretically the right type of players to build around Fultz. If we can only move on and build around THAT core, then I'd be happy to wait for the results without needing to win now. I don't fear the future we have with our current youngsters. I may get there one day but that day isn't here yet.

To that end - would a Rui Hachimura for Bamba trade make any sense?

Any comment on this?

Or on

Ish Smith, Jerome Robinson and our #9 for Bamba, Aminu, your #15?

Nah Swole Bamba is a keeper. Lotta hurt fans out there who don't want to accept that the man was recovering from covid as an excuse for coach not playing him. They think coach didn't play him because he thinks Bamba sucks.

Gimme 9 + cap filler and Vucevic is all yours. Thank you for showing the interests in Bamba that our own fans don't see.

[j-ragg]

lol ah yes soon as Gordon is gone we will go back to 50+ win seasons.

It’s a catch 22. On one hand you know your getting something for Gordon. On the other, you are admitting to playing through Vuc for the foreseeable future.

Either way we'll play through Vuc until he retires from basketball.