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2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome)

Moderators: dakomish23, mpharris36, j4remi, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, HerSports85, Deeeez Knicks

Who are you voting for?

Donald Trump
29
28%
Joe Biden
63
60%
Howie Hawkins
4
4%
Jo Jorgensen
3
3%
Kanye West
6
6%
 
Total votes: 105

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1081 » by BallSacBounce » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:37 am

Stannis wrote:
BallSacBounce wrote:
So the battle lines are drawn. Peace loving law and order guy on the right and riotous arsonists on the left. Wonder which side the public will pick. It's so hard to figure out.


Trump is anti-war as much as Obama was... which isn't much. His total number of troops deployed is the same as Obama's. And if you keep "bombing the crap out of them", you are going to have to eventually send more.

The Kosovo-Serbia "peace deal" is a farce. Serbia still doesn't recognize Kosovo which will still leave bad blood between the two nations. And Serbia is already refraining from moving their embassy to Jerusalem.

Kosovo and Serbia are FAR from leaving the past behind. Still a lot of red flags, and I'm convinced most people haven't even read this deal at all. They see a picture and say "oh look, peace has been achieved".

The signing of any peace deal doesn't complete the work. It's certainly an excellent step in the right direction with lots of good things in the deal. This is just sour grapes.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1082 » by BallSacBounce » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:06 pm

Sour Joe just can't bring himself to say Trump is doing good work with these peace deals. Says he is doing it "accidentally." What a buffoon.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/11/joe-biden-trump-accidentally-making-peace-between-israel-and-arab-states/

“I think Trump is going to accidentally do something positive here, in terms of this issue of … other Arab states” making peace and establishing normal relations with Israel, Biden told a fundraiser hosted by the far-left J Street organization, as quoted by the Times of Israel.


OK Joe, you run with that.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1083 » by BallSacBounce » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:33 pm

Joe Biden: Trump's USMCA "Is Better Than NAFTA, But"

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/09/10/joe_biden_trumps_usmca_is_better_than_nafta_but.html


Tapper repeatedly pressed Biden to give Trump "credit" for signing a new deal to replace NAFTA, but Biden would not budge.

JAKE TAPPER: So you asked and what did he do after he got elected, and you brought up the tax bill. Something else he did was renegotiated NAFTA.

JOE BIDEN: He did.

TAPPER: He renegotiated NAFTA. When you ran for president and Barack Obama ran for president you both said you would renegotiate NAFTA. Nancy Pelosi said the USMCA, which President Trump signed into law is a, quote, a victory for America's workers. Does he deserve credit for that?

JOE BIDEN: No, I think. Remember, he wasn't the one that pushed that particular one that passed. The House amended the bill, amended the bill. It's a big deal.

TAPPER: He signed it.

BIDEN: They amended it. He was giving pharma a way out, a gigantic break the way he's doing now with pharma. They are building overseas and getting tax breaks for it. That's what it was about with him. They said we're not going to do that.

TAPPER: He renegotiated NAFTA and you didn't is the point.

BIDEN: Because we had a Republican Congress that wouldn't go along with us renegotiating.

TAPPER: Doesn't he deserve some credit for that? It's better, USMCA is better than NAFTA.

BIDEN: It is better than NAFTA. But look at what the overall trade policy has been, even with NAFTA? We now have this gigantic deficit in trade with Mexico. Not because NAFTA wasn't made better, because overall trade policy and how he deals with it made everything worse.

TAPPER: I guess my only point is: I'm a blue-collar guy sitting in Macomb County, Michigan, if I were that person.

BIDEN: Yeah.

TAPPER: I'm sitting here listening to your pitch and I'm thinking, "I like what he has to sell but he's part of the establishment that has been selling my jobs down the river. He supported NAFTA, he supported Most Favored Nation status for China and Trump renegotiated NAFTA and Obama and Biden didn't."


That last paragraph, that is exactly what this election is about. For 30 years whatever American jobs US Establishment Politicians both Republican and Democrats could not export they imported illegal aliens and gave out H1B visas to take. Until Trump.

You have Trump to thank for this reversal. And only him. No one else was lifting a finger to bring those jobs back from China. They all said we were becoming a service economy. **** that ****.

When Trump was campaigning last election and said he was going to bring those jobs back Obama said "what magic wand does he have." You don't need a magic wand you just need to give a **** and take a stand and stop selling out our country's citizens.

Mitch McConnell and the US Chamber of Commerce is bullsheet, Obama the same. They're all in on it. It's a big club and you ain't in it.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1084 » by Pointgod » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:16 pm

BallSacBounce wrote:Joe Biden: Trump's USMCA "Is Better Than NAFTA, But"

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/09/10/joe_biden_trumps_usmca_is_better_than_nafta_but.html


Tapper repeatedly pressed Biden to give Trump "credit" for signing a new deal to replace NAFTA, but Biden would not budge.

JAKE TAPPER: So you asked and what did he do after he got elected, and you brought up the tax bill. Something else he did was renegotiated NAFTA.

JOE BIDEN: He did.

TAPPER: He renegotiated NAFTA. When you ran for president and Barack Obama ran for president you both said you would renegotiate NAFTA. Nancy Pelosi said the USMCA, which President Trump signed into law is a, quote, a victory for America's workers. Does he deserve credit for that?

JOE BIDEN: No, I think. Remember, he wasn't the one that pushed that particular one that passed. The House amended the bill, amended the bill. It's a big deal.

TAPPER: He signed it.

BIDEN: They amended it. He was giving pharma a way out, a gigantic break the way he's doing now with pharma. They are building overseas and getting tax breaks for it. That's what it was about with him. They said we're not going to do that.

TAPPER: He renegotiated NAFTA and you didn't is the point.

BIDEN: Because we had a Republican Congress that wouldn't go along with us renegotiating.

TAPPER: Doesn't he deserve some credit for that? It's better, USMCA is better than NAFTA.

BIDEN: It is better than NAFTA. But look at what the overall trade policy has been, even with NAFTA? We now have this gigantic deficit in trade with Mexico. Not because NAFTA wasn't made better, because overall trade policy and how he deals with it made everything worse.

TAPPER: I guess my only point is: I'm a blue-collar guy sitting in Macomb County, Michigan, if I were that person.

BIDEN: Yeah.

TAPPER: I'm sitting here listening to your pitch and I'm thinking, "I like what he has to sell but he's part of the establishment that has been selling my jobs down the river. He supported NAFTA, he supported Most Favored Nation status for China and Trump renegotiated NAFTA and Obama and Biden didn't."


That last paragraph, that is exactly what this election is about. For 30 years whatever American jobs US Establishment Politicians both Republican and Democrats could not export they imported illegal aliens and gave out H1B visas to take. Until Trump.

You have Trump to thank for this reversal. And only him. No one else was lifting a finger to bring those jobs back from China. They all said we were becoming a service economy. **** that ****.

When Trump was campaigning last election and said he was going to bring those jobs back Obama said "what magic wand does he have." You don't need a magic wand you just need to give a **** and take a stand and stop selling out our country's citizens.

Mitch McConnell and the US Chamber of Commerce is bullsheet, Obama the same. They're all in on it. It's a big club and you ain't in it.


See this the bull that makes me push back whenever someone says CNN has some type of bias against the right wing. A simple fact check from Jake Tapper would show that manufacturing had declined under Trump even before the pandemic and his trade wars was completely to blame. Biden was right that Obama tried to renegotiate NAFTA but Republicans refused to work with him. But somehow the Democrats working in a bipartisan fashion through Congress doesn’t get any positive coverage.

With everything with Trump it’s all show and little substance but the media falls for it because the bar is so low.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trumps-spotty-record-on-manufacturing-jobs-163449515.html

From that perspective, Biden’s criticism largely holds up. Trump claims to have created the “greatest economy ever” before the coronavirus arrived, which is a comical exaggeration. In many respects, the U.S. economy grew at a similar pace from the last three years of the Obama administration into early 2020. Overall employment growth slowed a bit under Trump, but wages rose, which is typical of an expansion moving from middle to later stages. On manufacturing, however, one factor—Trump’s trade disputes with China and other countries, and the protectionist tariffs he imposed on many imports—may have caused a manufacturing slowdown and undermined the promises Trump made in 2016.


And here’s the important bolded part
And there’s no evidence of manufacturing jobs that had left for other countries returning to the United States during the last three years, as Trump promised.


The trade deficit has increased under Trump, the deficit and debt is at record levels, the economy is in shambles, unemployment is up and this isn’t even mentioning the 200000 dead from the coronavirus, blatant corruption, illegality and I haven’t gotten to Trump’s moral failures.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1085 » by Pointgod » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:23 pm

BallSacBounce wrote:Sour Joe just can't bring himself to say Trump is doing good work with these peace deals. Says he is doing it "accidentally." What a buffoon.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/11/joe-biden-trump-accidentally-making-peace-between-israel-and-arab-states/

“I think Trump is going to accidentally do something positive here, in terms of this issue of … other Arab states” making peace and establishing normal relations with Israel, Biden told a fundraiser hosted by the far-left J Street organization, as quoted by the Times of Israel.


OK Joe, you run with that.


Trump has had four years to create peace deals and all of a sudden within the last two months with an election coming up he’s suddenly Jimmy Carter? You serious can’t be this naive. The so called peace deals aren’t worth the paper that they’re written on. And the people nominating him for the Nobel prize are far right idiots looking for attention. Donald Trump is not some Foreign policy dove.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1086 » by Pointgod » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:08 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1087 » by Stannis » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:56 pm

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1088 » by Stannis » Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:26 pm

Edward Snowden Reacts To Russia Meddling In U.S. Elections | The 11th Hour | MSNBC

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1089 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:33 pm



Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1090 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:37 pm

Stannis wrote:Edward Snowden Reacts To Russia Meddling In U.S. Elections | The 11th Hour | MSNBC



#FreeSnowden. Let this American Patriot come home to a hero's welcome.

The Court of Appeals found that Snowden was right!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-nsa-spying/u-s-court-mass-surveillance-program-exposed-by-snowden-was-illegal-idUSKBN25T3CK

Seven years after former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden blew the whistle on the mass surveillance of Americans’ telephone records, an appeals court has found the program was unlawful - and that the U.S. intelligence leaders who publicly defended it were not telling the truth.

In a ruling handed down on Wednesday, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit said the warrantless telephone dragnet that secretly collected millions of Americans’ telephone records violated the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and may well have been unconstitutional.

Snowden, who fled to Russia in the aftermath of the 2013 disclosures and still faces U.S. espionage charges, said on Twitter that the ruling was a vindication of his decision to go public with evidence of the National Security Agency’s domestic eavesdropping operation.

“I never imagined that I would live to see our courts condemn the NSA’s activities as unlawful and in the same ruling credit me for exposing them,” Snowden said in a message posted to Twitter.

Evidence that the NSA was secretly building a vast database of U.S. telephone records - the who, the how, the when, and the where of millions of mobile calls - was the first and arguably the most explosive of the Snowden revelations published by the Guardian newspaper in 2013.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1091 » by Stannis » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:46 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter

I actually think Biden needs to just reach out to more corrupt Republicans, and do everything he can do secure George W Bush's endorsement.

In all seriousness, I think the focus on healthcare and Latinos are key here. Bernie is right. Biden is overlooking those big time.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1092 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:58 pm

Stannis wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter

I actually think Biden needs to just reach out to more corrupt Republicans, and do everything he can do secure George W Bush's endorsement.

In all seriousness, I think the focus on healthcare and Latinos are key here. Bernie is right. Biden is overlooking those big time.


Have you noticed that Biden has stopped talking about the public option and other left leaning programs? This is who he is, a Republican-lite "Democrat." He wants to give more money to the military and to law enforcement. He's tone deaf.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1093 » by Stannis » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:07 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Stannis wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter

I actually think Biden needs to just reach out to more corrupt Republicans, and do everything he can do secure George W Bush's endorsement.

In all seriousness, I think the focus on healthcare and Latinos are key here. Bernie is right. Biden is overlooking those big time.


Have you noticed that Biden has stopped talking about the public option and other left leaning programs? This is who he is, a Republican-lite "Democrat." He wants to give more money to the military and to law enforcement. He's tone deaf.


Yea, I actually think the GOP is capitalizing on this and making Trump come out as the anti-War guy. I don't think Trump is anti-war at all. But neither do I think Biden is. Especially when he is aligning himself with the McCain/Bush-esque republicans. Just flat out dumb.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1094 » by Oscirus » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:57 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19


The Black community loves Donald. Just ask him.

https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00668517&cycle=2020. Though who knows the people in the shadows running that thing
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1095 » by Oscirus » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:00 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Stannis wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter

I actually think Biden needs to just reach out to more corrupt Republicans, and do everything he can do secure George W Bush's endorsement.

In all seriousness, I think the focus on healthcare and Latinos are key here. Bernie is right. Biden is overlooking those big time.


Have you noticed that Biden has stopped talking about the public option and other left leaning programs? This is who he is, a Republican-lite "Democrat." He wants to give more money to the military and to law enforcement. He's tone deaf.

Not progressive does not mean republican lite and just because he's not concentrating on those policy points doesnt mean ignoring them.

As for relying on AOC to campaign for ya, ask Bernie how that worked out for him.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1096 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:08 am

Oscirus wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Stannis wrote:I actually think Biden needs to just reach out to more corrupt Republicans, and do everything he can do secure George W Bush's endorsement.

In all seriousness, I think the focus on healthcare and Latinos are key here. Bernie is right. Biden is overlooking those big time.


Have you noticed that Biden has stopped talking about the public option and other left leaning programs? This is who he is, a Republican-lite "Democrat." He wants to give more money to the military and to law enforcement. He's tone deaf.

Not progressive does not mean republican lite and just because he's not concentrating on those policy points doesnt mean ignoring them.

As for relying on AOC to campaign for ya, ask Bernie how that worked out for him.



Bernie was kicking Joe’s ass until Obama, the DNC and Clyburn stuck theIt noses into it. Please.

What are you going to tell me if/when the under 45 age group doesn’t come out to vote for Joe?
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1097 » by Stannis » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:19 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:What are you going to tell me if/when the under 45 age group doesn’t come out to vote for Joe?


This is key right here. Bernie is trying to help Biden with that demographic, as well as the Latino demographic. Biden should listen here. I don't want to hear any Bernie blame if the DNC pulls another 2016.

Getting Republican voters will be tough. They are stubborn. But if they hate Donald so much, they will vote against him anyways. I don't think you really need to go out of your way to get those votes.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1098 » by Oscirus » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:23 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Have you noticed that Biden has stopped talking about the public option and other left leaning programs? This is who he is, a Republican-lite "Democrat." He wants to give more money to the military and to law enforcement. He's tone deaf.

Not progressive does not mean republican lite and just because he's not concentrating on those policy points doesnt mean ignoring them.

As for relying on AOC to campaign for ya, ask Bernie how that worked out for him.



Bernie was kicking Joe’s ass until Obama, the DNC and Clyburn stuck theIt noses into it. Please.

What are you going to tell me if/when the under 45 age group doesn’t come out to vote for Joe?

How did Obama get involved anywhere and dont tell me any bull conspiracy young turks nonsense. Fact is that once it was one on one and the votes weren't split among multiple candidates, Bernie got his ass spanked.

And I'm not gonna tell you anything because as shown by bernie again, they dont come out and vote enough to make the difference anyway. If bernie couldn't get that turnout when he had their support, what makes you think that Biden would?
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1099 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:40 am

Oscirus wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Oscirus wrote:Not progressive does not mean republican lite and just because he's not concentrating on those policy points doesnt mean ignoring them.

As for relying on AOC to campaign for ya, ask Bernie how that worked out for him.



Bernie was kicking Joe’s ass until Obama, the DNC and Clyburn stuck theIt noses into it. Please.

What are you going to tell me if/when the under 45 age group doesn’t come out to vote for Joe?

How did Obama get involved anywhere and dont tell me any bull conspiracy young turks nonsense. Fact is that once it was one on one and the votes weren't split among multiple candidates, Bernie got his ass spanked.

And I'm not gonna tell you anything because as shown by bernie again, they dont come out and vote enough to make the difference anyway. If bernie couldn't get that turnout when he had their support, what makes you think that Biden would?


:lol: Who do you think got all of the Democratic candidates - who swore up and down to “take it all the way to the Convention” - to suddenly and very conspicuously drop out of the Primary (except for Warren, of course) prior to the South Carolina primary? If you don’t believe it was Obama than you either aren’t keeping up or in denial.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1100 » by Phish Tank » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:08 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:

Bernie was kicking Joe’s ass until Obama, the DNC and Clyburn stuck theIt noses into it. Please.

What are you going to tell me if/when the under 45 age group doesn’t come out to vote for Joe?

How did Obama get involved anywhere and dont tell me any bull conspiracy young turks nonsense. Fact is that once it was one on one and the votes weren't split among multiple candidates, Bernie got his ass spanked.

And I'm not gonna tell you anything because as shown by bernie again, they dont come out and vote enough to make the difference anyway. If bernie couldn't get that turnout when he had their support, what makes you think that Biden would?


:lol: Who do you think got all of the Democratic candidates - who swore up and down to “take it all the way to the Convention” - to suddenly and very conspicuously drop out of the Primary (except for Warren, of course) prior to the South Carolina primary? If you don’t believe it was Obama than you either aren’t keeping up or in denial.


most of them were running out of money by Super Tuesday, so that's a moot point. Can't stay in a race with no $ on hand.

The real issue isn't SC, but rather the fact that Bernie lost both MI and WI, two states Bernie won in strong fashion in 2016
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