Deep Dive into Masai's Presidency

[Raps in 4]

Bring back BC!

[kalel123]

The posts in this thread are pretty funny and filled with conjecture pertaining to what the discussion is actually about:

-not being happy with a title (no we are happy but adding nuance to Masai’s tenure is a fair discussion)
-being new fans who haven’t seen the dark days (seen it all but I don’t compare to Colangelo or Mighty Mouse not wanting to be here, just trying to create a contender for years to come and looking at the mediocre Lebronto years that seems to be back again)
-that we’re looking for attention (ironic considering a post asking for attention is asking for attention)
-anger that we do not understand basketball or are haters or could do a better job (yes critique means we could do a better job. It’s the same as blindly following to critique it just doesn’t go with the household narrative that Masai is infallible)
-personal shots which is my fav and short quips for +1, and yet not actually responding to valid points made (barring a few and to those I give respect)

Why do you want a contender for years to come? Because you want to eventually win a title. What has Ujiri won with Raptors last season? A championship. Case closed.

Whatever you are arguing for at this point with regards to what he did to get there is b**ching for the sake of b**ching. Plenty of people have shot your arguments to shreds EARLY in this thread you just choose to selectively ignore them because you want to continue on b**ching. You just don't like it because people are just calling you out how they see it. Whatever it is that you claim to be saying, most people see right through BS and see what you are actually doing. Don't play the victim.

Yeah, Ujiri made mistakes on the way to a championship but so have other great GM's. Point is he got to where we needed to get to by smart drafting, trades, etc. and collecting assets to get that last piece when one became available. His positives greatly outweigh the negatives just like other great GM's. And we would've had that contender for years to come (and probably won back-to-back) had that piece not left. But that is nobody's fault because Raptors did everything anybody could possibly do to get him to stay. He just wanted to play close to home.

Every team eventually goes into a lull where they have to rebuild/retool and that's where we are now. Nothing wrong with that. At least we got our options wide open, being committed to only Siakam long-term. If someone has some constructive ideas about what can be done going forward or even a better man for the job going forward. Great. Let's discuss. But you clearly don't because all you've managed to do is keep harping on the past and moaning and whining to no end, then you are just being a whinny little * with nothing but toxin to contribute, shouldn't be surprised that so many people respond to you the way they do. Again, they see right through all the BS in your posts. Don't play the victim.

And hey, even if we do end up giving big money to Fred Van Vleet and OG, one thing Ujiri has kept constant is the flexibility in cap and contracts overall so I doubt that will change when it's all said and done this offseason. At least let the man do something before you go criticize. He has earned that much respect at least. And if core of Siakam, Van Vleet, and OG are so terrible as you say, we are going to at minimum be picking accordingly in draft and adding to the core and collecting assets. It's soon not going to be just Siakam, Van Vleet, and OG any more. They just happen to be who we have now. Of course, you would be too short-sighted and happy to be b**ching about the past to realize this. But just thought I would mention it.

[kalel123]

But he didnt win this yr, and while the future hasnt happened, he wont win it in subsequent yrs.

We are living in a world where the Toronto Raptors won a title in the hardest big 4 league to win a title, something no one really ever expected despite our obvious homerism, and mother **** are in these streets whining like babies.

What?

The NBA is probably the easiest of the big 4 to win a championship because if you have a top 5/10 player you are almost automatically a contender. One player can drastically change your fortunes. The same doesn't go for the NFL, NHL or MLB.

Yes, people are in the streets protesting. Sure, make up some strawman. People aren't just blindly loyal to Masai and then all of a sudden you have a bunch of wannabe gate keepers telling people what they can or cannot think.

WTF kind of parallel universe are you living in? You certainly ain't living in mine.

[Pooh_Jeter]

2012-2013 - Nuggets finished 57-25 [MASAI FINAL YEAR)

2013-2014 - Nuggets finished 36-46.

2014-2015 - Nuggets finished 30-52.

2015-2016 - Nuggets finished 33-49

2016-2017 - Nuggets finished 40-42.


So the 4 years after Masai left the Nuggets were a garbage team but you are saying that they ended up in a better position than the team he currently resides over even though the Raptors made the ECF finals in the 2016 and won a chip in 2019, and won 50+ games for 5 straight seasons.

WTF?

Is it currently 2013?

Nuggets are in game 7 against the title favourites and going forward have a Jokic/Murray/MPJ core.

The Raptors best player is 34 and on the last year of his deal. They will be paying Siakam/FVV/OG 75M.

Convenient you left out the last two years when the Nuggets have been flourishing. If the Nuggets were in the trash Eastern Conference they easily make the playoffs more than they did in the stacked West.

Also, this idea that I can only be happy with a championship every year is ridiculous. It's the pursuit and path towards one that is needed. Desperately hoping a one in a million trade falls into your lap isn't smart planning. It might take a full rebuild in which case I'm perfectly fine with some lean years. I don't rate 50 win regular seasons like I'm some desperate T Wolves fan.

Lol.

You realize it's not easy to win a title, right? The margin of error is pretty small and you need some luck. What does this say about the Clippers if they lose? The Clippers have two MVP caliber players, a great supporting cast, and traded their future to win a title this year. Sometimes teams can do literally everything to win a title and still come up short.

We were moments away from advancing to the ECF, sometimes it doesn't go your way. Last year we were moments away from losing in the 2nd round, but we got some luck.

The Nuggets twice this series had two huge comebacks. They could have easily been eliminated 4-1.

Your premise was that the Nuggets are far better off compared to when Masai left. That argument itself was ridiculous because the 4 years after Masai left the Nuggets were terrible. You can't take an entirely different era and like things got better once Masai left, lol.

So let's say the Nuggets advance to the WCF and lose to the Lakers? What difference does that make? We also advanced to the ECF where we won 2 games against the eventual champion Cavaliers.

My god, it's like some of you posters act as if it's title or bust, it's not that easy.

We don't know what will happen with the Nuggets going forward. We don't know what injury issues they may face. We don't know if they will be able to sign critical pieces.

Just a year ago the Sixers looked like they were poised to make a title run. They nearly beat us a year ago and may have gone on to win the entire thing if they did. They had Embiid, Simmons, Butler and Harris. They made some foolish moves and Simmons got hurt before the playoffs. They got swept in the 1st round.

It's such a strawman argument people are building. Of course no one expects to win a championship EVERY year, but the idea behind building a contender is that you have a championship window. Things will break for you or against you. The reality is that Toronto was ONLY a contender when they had Kawhi. Every other year was window dressing.

Most of the people here would absolutely roast the Pacers and Hawks run in the EC, yet Masai is some sort of messiah.

My point about the Nuggets is that they did just fine without Masai around and are currently in a better position than the Raptors are. Don't put words into my mouth that I didn't say.

[Pooh_Jeter]

We are living in a world where the Toronto Raptors won a title in the hardest big 4 league to win a title, something no one really ever expected despite our obvious homerism, and mother **** are in these streets whining like babies.

What?

The NBA is probably the easiest of the big 4 to win a championship because if you have a top 5/10 player you are almost automatically a contender. One player can drastically change your fortunes. The same doesn't go for the NFL, NHL or MLB.

Yes, people are in the streets protesting. Sure, make up some strawman. People aren't just blindly loyal to Masai and then all of a sudden you have a bunch of wannabe gate keepers telling people what they can or cannot think.

Lolol yes, all you need is a “top 5/10 player” and you’re automatically a contender. AHahahaha. Relatedly, who are the top 5/10 players in the NBA next season? Dallas a contender? Portland? New Jersey? What if a team has 2 top 10 players, should everyone else quit? Lol, what indeed.

And? You didn't actually provide a rebuttal.

Dallas is absolutely a contender if they get healthy and they will be players in 2021 FA. If KD is even 75% of what he was they are a contender. Portland when healthy is in a similar position.

One great player makes FAR more of a difference in the NBA. That's fact, now give me an actual argument instead of laughing to yourself.

[Johnny Bball]

What?

The NBA is probably the easiest of the big 4 to win a championship because if you have a top 5/10 player you are almost automatically a contender. One player can drastically change your fortunes. The same doesn't go for the NFL, NHL or MLB.

Yes, people are in the streets protesting. Sure, make up some strawman. People aren't just blindly loyal to Masai and then all of a sudden you have a bunch of wannabe gate keepers telling people what they can or cannot think.

Lolol yes, all you need is a “top 5/10 player” and you’re automatically a contender. AHahahaha. Relatedly, who are the top 5/10 players in the NBA next season? Dallas a contender? Portland? New Jersey? What if a team has 2 top 10 players, should everyone else quit? Lol, what indeed.

And? You didn't actually provide a rebuttal.

Dallas is absolutely a contender if they get healthy and they will be players in 2021 FA. If KD is even 75% of what he was they are a contender. Portland when healthy is in a similar position.

One great player makes FAR more of a difference in the NBA. That's fact, now give me an actual argument instead of laughing to yourself.

What's a contender? The top 1, 2, 4 or 8 teams in each conference? You tell me that, then I'll rip this hypocritical post to shreds.

[OakleyDokely]

[OakleyDokely]

[Danny1616]

Is it currently 2013?

Nuggets are in game 7 against the title favourites and going forward have a Jokic/Murray/MPJ core.

The Raptors best player is 34 and on the last year of his deal. They will be paying Siakam/FVV/OG 75M.

Convenient you left out the last two years when the Nuggets have been flourishing. If the Nuggets were in the trash Eastern Conference they easily make the playoffs more than they did in the stacked West.

Also, this idea that I can only be happy with a championship every year is ridiculous. It's the pursuit and path towards one that is needed. Desperately hoping a one in a million trade falls into your lap isn't smart planning. It might take a full rebuild in which case I'm perfectly fine with some lean years. I don't rate 50 win regular seasons like I'm some desperate T Wolves fan.

Lol.

You realize it's not easy to win a title, right? The margin of error is pretty small and you need some luck. What does this say about the Clippers if they lose? The Clippers have two MVP caliber players, a great supporting cast, and traded their future to win a title this year. Sometimes teams can do literally everything to win a title and still come up short.

We were moments away from advancing to the ECF, sometimes it doesn't go your way. Last year we were moments away from losing in the 2nd round, but we got some luck.

The Nuggets twice this series had two huge comebacks. They could have easily been eliminated 4-1.

Your premise was that the Nuggets are far better off compared to when Masai left. That argument itself was ridiculous because the 4 years after Masai left the Nuggets were terrible. You can't take an entirely different era and like things got better once Masai left, lol.

So let's say the Nuggets advance to the WCF and lose to the Lakers? What difference does that make? We also advanced to the ECF where we won 2 games against the eventual champion Cavaliers.

My god, it's like some of you posters act as if it's title or bust, it's not that easy.

We don't know what will happen with the Nuggets going forward. We don't know what injury issues they may face. We don't know if they will be able to sign critical pieces.

Just a year ago the Sixers looked like they were poised to make a title run. They nearly beat us a year ago and may have gone on to win the entire thing if they did. They had Embiid, Simmons, Butler and Harris. They made some foolish moves and Simmons got hurt before the playoffs. They got swept in the 1st round.

It's such a strawman argument people are building. Of course no one expects to win a championship EVERY year, but the idea behind building a contender is that you have a championship window. Things will break for you or against you. The reality is that Toronto was ONLY a contender when they had Kawhi. Every other year was window dressing.

Most of the people here would absolutely roast the Pacers and Hawks run in the EC, yet Masai is some sort of messiah.

My point about the Nuggets is that they did just fine without Masai around and are currently in a better position than the Raptors are. Don't put words into my mouth that I didn't say.

That's not the reality whatsoever.

The reality is that had Lebron not been in the East, the Raptors had a legitimate chance to make the finals in multiple seasons.

Are you telling me that every other team in the East in the 1990s when the Bulls with Jordan were dominating were not contenders? According to your definition of what a "contender" is all elite eastern conference teams in the 1990s like the Pacers, the Knicks etc. were all pretenders?

All you can do is put your team in a position to compete for a title and hope that the dominoes fall your way.

Example: The Mavericks were an elite 50+ win team for 12 straight seasons. They got bounced in the playoffs early multiple teams, including a disaster loss to the 8th seeded Warriors in 2007 when Dirk won the MVP and the Mavs had the #1 record in the league. Finally, in 2011 everything came together and they won their first title.

Some teams like the '04-'10 Suns, the '90-'93 Suns, the '85-'90 Cavs, the '00 to '04 Kings, the '11-'16 Clippers, the '12-'16 Pacers, the '11-'16 Thunder were great teams that just couldn't get over the hump.

If you think that a 50+ win team that makes the top 8 or top 4 every single year is a "pretender" you shouldn't watch the NBA anymore.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Lolol yes, all you need is a “top 5/10 player” and you’re automatically a contender. AHahahaha. Relatedly, who are the top 5/10 players in the NBA next season? Dallas a contender? Portland? New Jersey? What if a team has 2 top 10 players, should everyone else quit? Lol, what indeed.

And? You didn't actually provide a rebuttal.

Dallas is absolutely a contender if they get healthy and they will be players in 2021 FA. If KD is even 75% of what he was they are a contender. Portland when healthy is in a similar position.

One great player makes FAR more of a difference in the NBA. That's fact, now give me an actual argument instead of laughing to yourself.

What's a contender? The top 1, 2, 4 or 8 teams in each conference? You tell me that, then I'll rip this hypocritical post to shreds.

Lol, I bet you fist pump after every post you make. "Yeah Johnny Bball, you got that guy good!"

It's subjective. It's usually the top 2 seeds in the conference, but it depends on roster construction and match ups going into the playoffs. This year was more wide open than most.

Every basketball expert and even coach/executive will tell you the regular season and playoffs are far different. There is a major difference between 16 game players and 82 game players.

[Pooh_Jeter]

That's not the reality whatsoever.

The reality is that had Lebron not been in the East, the Raptors had a legitimate chance to make the finals in multiple seasons.

Are you telling me that every other team in the East in the 1990s when the Bulls with Jordan were dominating were not contenders? According to your definition of what a "contender" is all elite eastern conference teams in the 1990s like the Pacers, the Knicks etc. were all pretenders?

All you can do is put your team in a position to compete for a title and hope that the dominoes fall your way.

Example: The Mavericks were an elite 50+ win team for 12 straight seasons. They got bounced in the playoffs early multiple teams, including a disaster loss to the 8th seeded Warriors in 2007 when Dirk won the MVP and the Mavs had the #1 record in the league. Finally, in 2011 everything came together and they won their first title.

Some teams like the '04-'10 Suns, the '90-'93 Suns, the '85-'90 Cavs, the '00 to '04 Kings, the '11-'16 Clippers, the '12-'16 Pacers, the '11-'16 Thunder were great teams that just couldn't get over the hump.

If you think that a 50+ win team that makes the top 8 or top 4 every single year is a "pretender" you shouldn't watch the NBA anymore.

Here is the difference, the Knicks and Pacers actually took MJ to the brink, the Raptors NEVER made LeBron sweat. If you think that 6 game series was actually close you're delusional. It's the most lopsided 6 game series in NBA history according to point differential.

Sure, if LeBron magically wasn't there maybe the Raptors make the Finals, but if they were in the West I bet they don't even make it out of the first round. Hypotheticals work both ways.

Regular season success isn't indicative of playoff success. Don't tell me what I can or can't watch. Why do all you Masai truthers try to act like my parents? I couldn't care less if Danny1616 thinks I shouldn't watch ball. I'd never say something that lame to someone.

[kalel123]

What?

The NBA is probably the easiest of the big 4 to win a championship because if you have a top 5/10 player you are almost automatically a contender. One player can drastically change your fortunes. The same doesn't go for the NFL, NHL or MLB.

Yes, people are in the streets protesting. Sure, make up some strawman. People aren't just blindly loyal to Masai and then all of a sudden you have a bunch of wannabe gate keepers telling people what they can or cannot think.

Lolol yes, all you need is a “top 5/10 player” and you’re automatically a contender. AHahahaha. Relatedly, who are the top 5/10 players in the NBA next season? Dallas a contender? Portland? New Jersey? What if a team has 2 top 10 players, should everyone else quit? Lol, what indeed.

And? You didn't actually provide a rebuttal.

Dallas is absolutely a contender if they get healthy and they will be players in 2021 FA. If KD is even 75% of what he was they are a contender. Portland when healthy is in a similar position.

One great player makes FAR more of a difference in the NBA. That's fact, now give me an actual argument instead of laughing to yourself.

Sometimes an opinion is so idiotic that they don't deserve a rebuttal. Such is the case here. But since you are just asking for it..

You are arguing the difference between NBA and other leagues. A difference that don't really make it any easier to win a championship.

This league is a super-star driven league, yes. If you argue that all you need to do is find a couple of top 5/10 player and have a few things break in your favor and you win a championship just like that. Sure.

But you are not appreciating how hard it is to find those top 5/10 players especially if you are a team like Toronto where the options of getting even one of those players, let alone two or three, here is very limited compared to teams like LA, GS, Miami, etc. Makes it actually harder to win a chip in the NBA because even if you have a couple of top 5/10 players, all you need is someone like MJ to come along and crush your hopes for the duration of your window. Or you could end up with a James Harden and never win.

That's why you have so little number of teams over the entire history with a championship and even fewer with multiple. And why our championship was that much more impressive and important.

If things were like they were in NFL, it would be actually easier for teams like ours to win a championship.

[Johnny Bball]

And? You didn't actually provide a rebuttal.

Dallas is absolutely a contender if they get healthy and they will be players in 2021 FA. If KD is even 75% of what he was they are a contender. Portland when healthy is in a similar position.

One great player makes FAR more of a difference in the NBA. That's fact, now give me an actual argument instead of laughing to yourself.

What's a contender? The top 1, 2, 4 or 8 teams in each conference? You tell me that, then I'll rip this hypocritical post to shreds.

Lol, I bet you fist pump after every post you make. "Yeah Johnny Bball, you got that guy good!"

It's subjective. It's usually the top 2 seeds in the conference, but it depends on roster construction and match ups going into the playoffs. This year was more wide open than most.

Every basketball expert and even coach/executive will tell you the regular season and playoffs are far different. There is a major difference between 16 game players and 82 game players.

So the top two seeds in each conference. The Lakers and the Clippers are likely the best teams in the west by far because of their talent and stars, win or lose, by those experts. And yet here you are saying Dallas, Nuggets, Portland are all competing which those same experts using your logic would say it not possible. And by your logic, this year the raptors were not competitive and have no future chance though.

I don't fist pump. I just shake my head at how hypocritical, negative and **** up the logic is that you use to continue your narrative.

I'll also assume we shouldn't hear a complaint from you since we have 6 more years after winning last year to get competitive again under this GM for him to be considered good.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Lolol yes, all you need is a “top 5/10 player” and you’re automatically a contender. AHahahaha. Relatedly, who are the top 5/10 players in the NBA next season? Dallas a contender? Portland? New Jersey? What if a team has 2 top 10 players, should everyone else quit? Lol, what indeed.

And? You didn't actually provide a rebuttal.

Dallas is absolutely a contender if they get healthy and they will be players in 2021 FA. If KD is even 75% of what he was they are a contender. Portland when healthy is in a similar position.

One great player makes FAR more of a difference in the NBA. That's fact, now give me an actual argument instead of laughing to yourself.

Sometimes an opinion is so idiotic that they don't deserve a rebuttal. Such is the case here. But since you are just asking for it..

You are arguing the difference between NBA and other leagues. A difference that don't really make it any easier to win a championship.

This league is a super-star driven league, yes. If you argue that all you need to do is find a couple of top 5/10 player and have a few things break in your favor and you win a championship just like that. Sure.

But you are not appreciating how hard it is to find those top 5/10 players especially if you are a team like Toronto where the options of getting even one of those players, let alone two or three, here is very limited compared to teams like LA, GS, Miami, etc. Makes it actually harder to win a chip in the NBA because even if you have a couple of top 5/10 players, all you need is someone like MJ to come along and crush your hopes for the duration of your window. Or you could end up with a James Harden and never win.

That's why you have so little number of teams over the entire history with a championship and even fewer with multiple. And why our championship was that much more impressive and important.

If things were like they were in NFL, it would be actually easier for teams like ours to win a championship.

How about you read the initial argument?

He said the NBA is the hardest of the big 4 to win a championship. I said no, it isn't. Where did I then say it was child's play to win a championship? Of course it's hard to secure a top 5/10 player, but with one move you can become a contender. You can't make one move like that and become a contender in the other 3 major leagues.

[ratul]

I would vote for Masai for PM. Seriously.

[Pooh_Jeter]

What's a contender? The top 1, 2, 4 or 8 teams in each conference? You tell me that, then I'll rip this hypocritical post to shreds.

Lol, I bet you fist pump after every post you make. "Yeah Johnny Bball, you got that guy good!"

It's subjective. It's usually the top 2 seeds in the conference, but it depends on roster construction and match ups going into the playoffs. This year was more wide open than most.

Every basketball expert and even coach/executive will tell you the regular season and playoffs are far different. There is a major difference between 16 game players and 82 game players.

So the top two seeds in each conference. The Lakers and the Clippers are likely the best teams in the west by far because of their talent and stars, win or lose, by those experts. And yet here you are saying Dallas, Nuggets, Portland are all competing which those same experts using your logic would say it not possible. And by your logic, this year the raptors were not competitive and have no future chance though.

I don't fist pump. I just shake my head at how hypocritical, negative and **** up the logic is that you use to continue your narrative.

I'll also assume we shouldn't hear a complaint from you since we have 6 more years after winning last year to get competitive again under this GM for him to be good.

Did you notice how I said it's subjective, but it tends to be the top 2 seeds? Notice I didn't outright say "ONLY TOP 2 SEEDS CAN BE CONTENDERS." For a guy with such an inflated ego and sense of his own self worth you sure don't like to read and understand what you are responding to.

I even said this year was more wide open than others because the defending champs lost their best player and the Warriors imploded. You're such an angry dude, your blood pressure must be sky high. Have a glass of milk and a cookie, you deserve it.

[Danny1616]

That's not the reality whatsoever.

The reality is that had Lebron not been in the East, the Raptors had a legitimate chance to make the finals in multiple seasons.

Are you telling me that every other team in the East in the 1990s when the Bulls with Jordan were dominating were not contenders? According to your definition of what a "contender" is all elite eastern conference teams in the 1990s like the Pacers, the Knicks etc. were all pretenders?

All you can do is put your team in a position to compete for a title and hope that the dominoes fall your way.

Example: The Mavericks were an elite 50+ win team for 12 straight seasons. They got bounced in the playoffs early multiple teams, including a disaster loss to the 8th seeded Warriors in 2007 when Dirk won the MVP and the Mavs had the #1 record in the league. Finally, in 2011 everything came together and they won their first title.

Some teams like the '04-'10 Suns, the '90-'93 Suns, the '85-'90 Cavs, the '00 to '04 Kings, the '11-'16 Clippers, the '12-'16 Pacers, the '11-'16 Thunder were great teams that just couldn't get over the hump.

If you think that a 50+ win team that makes the top 8 or top 4 every single year is a "pretender" you shouldn't watch the NBA anymore.

Here is the difference, the Knicks and Pacers actually took MJ to the brink, the Raptors NEVER made LeBron sweat. If you think that 6 game series was actually close you're delusional. It's the most lopsided 6 game series in NBA history according to point differential.

Sure, if LeBron magically wasn't there maybe the Raptors make the Finals, but if they were in the West I bet they don't even make it out of the first round. Hypotheticals work both ways.

Regular season success isn't indicative of playoff success. Don't tell me what I can or can't watch. Why do all you Masai truthers try to act like my parents? I couldn't care less if Danny1616 thinks I shouldn't watch ball. I'd never say something that lame to someone.

Way to pick and choose.

The 37 win and 8th seed Atlanta Hawks took the 1st seed Celtics who eventually won the chip to the brink in the 2008 playoffs.

Many lower seeded teams have taken top seeded teams to the "brink."

I value a great franchise with great management by their consistency over a large period of time.

For 7 seasons we have been an elite team in the NBA. We have won 50+ games five times, won a championship, made the ECF and made the semi-finals 3 times.

Only a handful of teams over the past 7 years can even rival what we've accomplished and those teams had to have either Lebron, Steph or KD.

[kalel123]

And? You didn't actually provide a rebuttal.

Dallas is absolutely a contender if they get healthy and they will be players in 2021 FA. If KD is even 75% of what he was they are a contender. Portland when healthy is in a similar position.

One great player makes FAR more of a difference in the NBA. That's fact, now give me an actual argument instead of laughing to yourself.

Sometimes an opinion is so idiotic that they don't deserve a rebuttal. Such is the case here. But since you are just asking for it..

You are arguing the difference between NBA and other leagues. A difference that don't really make it any easier to win a championship.

This league is a super-star driven league, yes. If you argue that all you need to do is find a couple of top 5/10 player and have a few things break in your favor and you win a championship just like that. Sure.

But you are not appreciating how hard it is to find those top 5/10 players especially if you are a team like Toronto where the options of getting even one of those players, let alone two or three, here is very limited compared to teams like LA, GS, Miami, etc. Makes it actually harder to win a chip in the NBA because even if you have a couple of top 5/10 players, all you need is someone like MJ to come along and crush your hopes for the duration of your window. Or you could end up with a James Harden and never win.

That's why you have so little number of teams over the entire history with a championship and even fewer with multiple. And why our championship was that much more impressive and important.

If things were like they were in NFL, it would be actually easier for teams like ours to win a championship.

How about you read the initial argument?

He said the NBA is the hardest of the big 4 to win a championship. I said no, it isn't. Where did I then say it was child's play to win a championship? Of course it's hard to secure a top 5/10 player, but with one move you can become a contender. You can't make one move like that and become a contender in the other 3 major leagues.

You stated and I quote "The NBA is probably the easiest of the big 4 to win a championship"

And yes, it is the hardest to win a championship if you are a team like Toronto Raptors. With a GM like Masai Ujiri, it'd actually be easier in those other leagues.

And I don't recall Lakers becoming a contender after adding LeBron, who to me is #2 overall GOAT. And I don't consider a team like the Rockets a contender either. Even in the NBA where one star can have the greater impact than other team sports, it's not as simple as just adding a top player. Why do you think Bucks have been bounced out in the fashion they have been? And no, I don't consider them a contender either.

[Pooh_Jeter]

That's not the reality whatsoever.

The reality is that had Lebron not been in the East, the Raptors had a legitimate chance to make the finals in multiple seasons.

Are you telling me that every other team in the East in the 1990s when the Bulls with Jordan were dominating were not contenders? According to your definition of what a "contender" is all elite eastern conference teams in the 1990s like the Pacers, the Knicks etc. were all pretenders?

All you can do is put your team in a position to compete for a title and hope that the dominoes fall your way.

Example: The Mavericks were an elite 50+ win team for 12 straight seasons. They got bounced in the playoffs early multiple teams, including a disaster loss to the 8th seeded Warriors in 2007 when Dirk won the MVP and the Mavs had the #1 record in the league. Finally, in 2011 everything came together and they won their first title.

Some teams like the '04-'10 Suns, the '90-'93 Suns, the '85-'90 Cavs, the '00 to '04 Kings, the '11-'16 Clippers, the '12-'16 Pacers, the '11-'16 Thunder were great teams that just couldn't get over the hump.

If you think that a 50+ win team that makes the top 8 or top 4 every single year is a "pretender" you shouldn't watch the NBA anymore.

Here is the difference, the Knicks and Pacers actually took MJ to the brink, the Raptors NEVER made LeBron sweat. If you think that 6 game series was actually close you're delusional. It's the most lopsided 6 game series in NBA history according to point differential.

Sure, if LeBron magically wasn't there maybe the Raptors make the Finals, but if they were in the West I bet they don't even make it out of the first round. Hypotheticals work both ways.

Regular season success isn't indicative of playoff success. Don't tell me what I can or can't watch. Why do all you Masai truthers try to act like my parents? I couldn't care less if Danny1616 thinks I shouldn't watch ball. I'd never say something that lame to someone.

Way to pick and choose.

The 37 win and 8th seed Atlanta Hawks took the 1st seed Celtics who eventually won the chip to the brink in the 2008 playoffs.

Many lower seeded teams have taken top seeded teams to the "brink."

I value a great franchise with great management by their consistency over a large period of time.

For 7 seasons we have been an elite team in the NBA. We have won 50+ games five times, won a championship, made the ECF and made the semi-finals 3 times.

Only a handful of teams over the past 7 years can even rival what we've accomplished and those teams had to have either Lebron, Steph or KD.

The Pacers and Knicks were good for extended periods of time and YOU brought them up. Take the L.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Sometimes an opinion is so idiotic that they don't deserve a rebuttal. Such is the case here. But since you are just asking for it..

You are arguing the difference between NBA and other leagues. A difference that don't really make it any easier to win a championship.

This league is a super-star driven league, yes. If you argue that all you need to do is find a couple of top 5/10 player and have a few things break in your favor and you win a championship just like that. Sure.

But you are not appreciating how hard it is to find those top 5/10 players especially if you are a team like Toronto where the options of getting even one of those players, let alone two or three, here is very limited compared to teams like LA, GS, Miami, etc. Makes it actually harder to win a chip in the NBA because even if you have a couple of top 5/10 players, all you need is someone like MJ to come along and crush your hopes for the duration of your window. Or you could end up with a James Harden and never win.

That's why you have so little number of teams over the entire history with a championship and even fewer with multiple. And why our championship was that much more impressive and important.

If things were like they were in NFL, it would be actually easier for teams like ours to win a championship.

How about you read the initial argument?

He said the NBA is the hardest of the big 4 to win a championship. I said no, it isn't. Where did I then say it was child's play to win a championship? Of course it's hard to secure a top 5/10 player, but with one move you can become a contender. You can't make one move like that and become a contender in the other 3 major leagues.

You stated and I quote "The NBA is probably the easiest of the big 4 to win a championship"

And yes, it is the hardest to win a championship if you are a team like Toronto Raptors. With a GM like Masai Ujiri, it'd actually be easier in those other leagues.

And I don't recall Lakers becoming a contender after adding LeBron, who to me is #2 overall GOAT. And I don't consider a team like the Rockets a contender either. Even in the NBA where one star can have the greater impact than other team sports, it's not as simple as just adding a top player. Why do you think Bucks have been bounced out in the fashion they have been? And no, I don't consider them a contender either.

I was in a quote thread with Danny1616, you jumped in out of context and then deleted the evidence. The Rockets took the prime Warriors to the brink, they were absolutely contenders until Harden blew up the team.

LeBron was hurt for most of last year and look at where they are now.