Mock and big board thread take 2

[Stillwater]

The first thread got off topic so I will open this up again here.
Please stick to the topic of discussing future draft prospects not past ones.

I am pretty certain the league is going to do its best to attempt to make the pre draft process
as close to normal as possible with the push back to Nov.
So hopefully they can gather some better intel than what they
have so far.
here is an example of a first round only where CLE buys a mid first from a tax team
and stays at 5 and JW slides to them
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/773871/

[KGdaBom]

We're doing a fan voted big board over on the Timberwolves forum. Fist player to 5 votes or best out of 10 than it moves on to the next spot. I thought you might like to see it.
1. Edwards.
2. Ball
3. Wiseman
4. Avdija
5. Okongwu
6. Hayes
7. Vassell
8. Williams
9. Okoro
10. Haliburton
11. Toppin
12. S.Bey (3) Maxey (1) Pokusevsky (1)
Notice we are voting on #12 and Bey is leading with 3 votes. I thought Williams at 8 was surprising and I think it's cool to hate on Toppin right now, but I will be very surprised if he falls to 11. Once again this is not a mock draft. This is a Wolves based big board.

[Stillwater]

We're doing a fan voted big board over on the Timberwolves forum. Fist player to 5 votes or best out of 10 than it moves on to the next spot. I thought you might like to see it.
1. Edwards.
2. Ball
3. Wiseman
4. Avdija
5. Okongwu
6. Hayes
7. Vassell
8. Williams
9. Okoro
10. Haliburton
11. Toppin
12. S.Bey (3) Maxey (1) Pokusevsky (1)
Notice we are voting on #12 and Bey is leading with 3 votes. I thought Williams at 8 was surprising and I think it's cool to hate on Toppin right now, but I will be very surprised if he falls to 11. Once again this is not a mock draft. This is a Wolves based big board.

yeah they had one going early on the general draft board but it fizzled out.
with the push back I am not expecting too much happening on here until after some form of combine or better new information is made available about health status any red flags etc.
Toppin is one that I think has a very large window and could go anywhere from 2 down to 14. His age and lack of lateral mobility are big enough factors I think he slides some.
It is interesting how these vote mocks go since they are usually way off from realty lol

[jbk1234]

It's kind of difficult to mock this draft because both Minny and GS want to trade back or even out. If they're unable, I could see both Edwards and Wiseman dropping.

I could see the Wolves drafting Okongwu. I could see GS drafting Vassell. I think Edwards/Ball go three and four in that scenario. It would be my hope that the Cavs take either Wiseman, Hayes or Okoro in that scenario.

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[Stillwater]

Yep very unclear who will actually go before the Cavs pick despite there being some clear high floor options and a couple considered elite ceiling but are really far far away from it bein attainable.
Its tough because often the tournament gives you a good idea of who teams are really looking at

[Stillwater]

I really dont have a big board for CLE at this time based on ltd information about each targeted players interest in CLE and its market vs other locations, each prospects proven anthro and health status etc.
There pretty much is little else for me to learn about any of them from a skills standpoint although a combine or even some updated accurate athletic/strength testing proven on youtube by each prospect would help to see who the workers are since there has been so much time since the college season hit the skids.
It would be nice to pick somebody with a love of the game that has them add skill in the extended offseason instead of lounging around

[Stillwater]

after seeing what Herro is doing in Miami has me thinking Immanuel Quickley should be a first rounder. He possesses many of the same elite numbers like ft % and corner 3's but he also plays well within the offense off ball with ball handlers like Maxey. Granted he never passed the ball last season and his role really was ltd to catch and shoot , but the more I watch him move with and without the ball on older film, he can play the back up pg position in the league with exceptional length to defend with film study and reps and if his shooting transfers can be inserted as a 6th man scorer if he expands his iso game. he already shows decent separation skill and mobility. I would love to get proof of length and anthro somehow to mock him right...but I would definitely buy a early 2nd if he was still available although I think if the predraft process goes anything like normal, he will be gone in the 20's. Most see him as a catach and shoot undersized wing...I see a high upside 2 way score first 1 guard that had a huge green llight from Cal to shoot it instead of pass it and so since he showed he can play off ball better because of his movement and shooting skills and length to denfend helps his cause further off ball.
idk maybe he would be another one of those undersized 2 guards , but I think if he really has a 6'10"ws and his smooth athleticism really also includes a vert pushing the 40" mark... I think its a surefire success story waiting to happen.
https://hoopsprospects.com/2020/05/12/immanuel-quickley-scouting-report/

[JonFromVA]

Tyler Herro's success even at 6'5" with a 6'3" wingspan is another reason Aaron Nesmith should be shooting up the boards; but if we can get back in the draft I do like the idea of a shooter with defensive potential.

According to nbadraft.net Quickley even at 21 yrs old, 6-3 190 is still not a very physical player, struggles to finish at the rim, tends to shy away from contact, etc. Certainly worth considering if we can buy a pick but I'd expect the Cavs to look first towards adding depth to the front-court.

[Stillwater]

Tyler Herro's success even at 6'5" with a 6'3" wingspan is another reason Aaron Nesmith should be shooting up the boards; but if we can get back in the draft I do like the idea of a shooter with defensive potential.

According to nbadraft.net Quickley even at 21 yrs old, 6-3 190 is still not a very physical player, struggles to finish at the rim, tends to shy away from contact, etc. Certainly worth considering if we can buy a pick but I'd expect the Cavs to look first towards adding depth to the front-court.

Exactly lol he is an exceptional shooter and moves well with the ball but is best in off ball movement and continues to get negative reviews about his subpar finishing ability heck even the link i posted says it.
The point is he has great length for 6'3 to defend some 2s and is more explosive than he showed according to some reports anyway which i can buy to some degree helping him finish better with more spacing just looking at his length and mitts etc but id want proof before i picked him.
His handles are average though and needs to get stronger add a floater etc.
His production increased in year 2 just from usage increase but id guess hes a worker too and I actually think Herro helped him find his niche.
Even if just by example.

[Stillwater]

So a lot of the Cavs targets like Okongwu Wiseman Vassell etc are apparently opting out of the combine, however there could still be some avenues to get a private workout.
My guess is unless they are in love with Avdija or some guard prospect the odds are increasing Wiseman is there for the taking;
Here I have Cavs taking him at 5 and buying a late first to gamble on McDaniels developmenthttps://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/777290/

[JonFromVA]

So a lot of the Cavs targets like Okongwu Wiseman Vassell etc are apparently opting out of the combine, however there could still be some avenues to get a private workout.
My guess is unless they are in love with Avdija or some guard prospect the odds are increasing Wiseman is there for the taking;
Here I have Cavs taking him at 5 and buying a late first to gamble on McDaniels developmenthttps://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/777290/

Would had been nice to see the players who weren't in the NCAA this last year competing in some of those scrimmages with the NCAA players, but even in better times we see players opt-out - typically because they got a promise from a team.

[Stillwater]

So a lot of the Cavs targets like Okongwu Wiseman Vassell etc are apparently opting out of the combine, however there could still be some avenues to get a private workout.
My guess is unless they are in love with Avdija or some guard prospect the odds are increasing Wiseman is there for the taking;
Here I have Cavs taking him at 5 and buying a late first to gamble on McDaniels developmenthttps://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/777290/

Would had been nice to see the players who weren't in the NCAA this last year competing in some of those scrimmages with the NCAA players, but even in better times we see players opt-out - typically because they got a promise from a team.

the promises I question a lot, I mean most of the agents are advising players who are already ranked in the lottery to opt out beyond anthro testing and even more this season just are not even going apparently given the Pandemic.
I was really hoping to get some accurate anthro on prospects like Vassell / WIlliams and wanted to see Okongwu and Wiseman athletic head to head.
regardless at this point it wont make too much difference because CLE probably will not be keeping the pick if the predraft process goes like it is right now.

[mg]

I was almost certain the Cavs were going to take a wing (Avidja, Okoro, or Vassell) but now not so sure. It sounds like Nance is expecting to be more of a 3/4 this season plus Windler is healthy..
It wouldn't surprise me if they seriously consider Okongwu or Wiseman if he falls. I guess that would mean not re-signing Tristan though. Outside of Love and Drummond who is a rental there are no long term 4/5 pieces on this team esp if Nance is going to start playing more minutes at the 3. Bell can probably soak up some minutes but he's more of a back of the rotation type. Apparently Bolden was also a pleasant surprise during their camp this week fwiw.

[mg]

So a lot of the Cavs targets like Okongwu Wiseman Vassell etc are apparently opting out of the combine, however there could still be some avenues to get a private workout.
My guess is unless they are in love with Avdija or some guard prospect the odds are increasing Wiseman is there for the taking;
Here I have Cavs taking him at 5 and buying a late first to gamble on McDaniels developmenthttps://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/777290/

Would had been nice to see the players who weren't in the NCAA this last year competing in some of those scrimmages with the NCAA players, but even in better times we see players opt-out - typically because they got a promise from a team.

the promises I question a lot, I mean most of the agents are advising players who are already ranked in the lottery to opt out beyond anthro testing and even more this season just are not even going apparently given the Pandemic.
I was really hoping to get some accurate anthro on prospects like Vassell / WIlliams and wanted to see Okongwu and Wiseman athletic head to head.
regardless at this point it wont make too much difference because CLE probably will not be keeping the pick if the predraft process goes like it is right now.

The problem is I've also heard rumors about Minn, GS, Chi, ATL, Det, and the Knicks also having interest in moving their lottery pick this year. If it's that much of a buyers market I'm not sure they could get a fair return tbh.

[Revenged25]

Would had been nice to see the players who weren't in the NCAA this last year competing in some of those scrimmages with the NCAA players, but even in better times we see players opt-out - typically because they got a promise from a team.

the promises I question a lot, I mean most of the agents are advising players who are already ranked in the lottery to opt out beyond anthro testing and even more this season just are not even going apparently given the Pandemic.
I was really hoping to get some accurate anthro on prospects like Vassell / WIlliams and wanted to see Okongwu and Wiseman athletic head to head.
regardless at this point it wont make too much difference because CLE probably will not be keeping the pick if the predraft process goes like it is right now.

The problem is I've also heard rumors about Minn, GS, Chi, ATL, Det, and the Knicks also having interest in moving their lottery pick this year. If it's that much of a buyers market I'm not sure they could get a fair return tbh.

If they are all selling I'd see about picking one of them up cheap. This draft class might not be deep but there are some very interesting players in it.

[Stillwater]

the promises I question a lot, I mean most of the agents are advising players who are already ranked in the lottery to opt out beyond anthro testing and even more this season just are not even going apparently given the Pandemic.
I was really hoping to get some accurate anthro on prospects like Vassell / WIlliams and wanted to see Okongwu and Wiseman athletic head to head.
regardless at this point it wont make too much difference because CLE probably will not be keeping the pick if the predraft process goes like it is right now.

The problem is I've also heard rumors about Minn, GS, Chi, ATL, Det, and the Knicks also having interest in moving their lottery pick this year. If it's that much of a buyers market I'm not sure they could get a fair return tbh.

If they are all selling I'd see about picking one of them up cheap. This draft class might not be deep but there are some very interesting players in it.

yeah there are good prospects its just not going to be easy to make the right selection that you are willing to pay number 5 pick $ too so trading out makes some sense if say Hayes is available and somebody is willing to give up a 2021 1st for it

[JonFromVA]

As much they might want to pull off a deal for a proven player in a trade down, there's a lot of stars that need to align to make that kind of deal happen starting with a coveted player dropping to 5.

[Stillwater]

As much they might want to pull off a deal for a proven player in a trade down, there's a lot of stars that need to align to make that kind of deal happen starting with a coveted player dropping to 5.

that last part is the only reason a trade DOWN probably wont happen stars aligned or not given its unlikely any teams in the 6-14 range are interested in giving up a 21 1st along with the late lottery pick in this draft or whatever rookie scale player CLE wants for the pick because the odds are it will also be a player high on CLE big board and they just take him there. If Hayes or Ball are there at 5 though AND the Cavs top 4 targets all go in the top 4 then the odds go up they could get that 21 1st instead of the teams in the top 4 that turned down the same offer.

[Stillwater]

Edwards falls a lot in this one and a couple go higher or much higher than most think they will...
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/782967/

[Stillwater]

trade city at the top and CAVS jump in sending 5 a protected future Love etc for Aaron Gordon NAW Jaxson Hayes Chuma Okeke and more
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/786024/

Minnesota agrees to trade the 1(ball) with NY where they get back NY own 21 1st top 4 protected then unprotected in 22 as well as the NY picks this year at 8(Okongwu) and 27(Kurucs)

GSW goes all in sending Draymond home with Wiggins to DET with the 2(Hayes) pick for Griffin,Kennard 7th(Avdija) and DET 21 1st lottery protected

CHA trades down giving up 3(Wiseman) Batums expiring and Zeller to BOS for Haywards expiring Robert WIlliams Romeo Langford and BOS picks in 2020 at 14(Maxey) and 30(Oturo)

CLE trades KLove Osman McKinnie and the 5th,& CLE 22 1st lottery protected then top 4 protected in 23 & 24 then unprotected in 25 with ORL and NOP
CLE gets Gordon,NAW,Jaxson Hayes,s/t Chuma Okeke,15(Pokusevski stashed),42(bpa backcourt defensive specialist or elite shooter) & their 22 2nd back.
NOP get 5th(Okoro),McKinnie,Birch,ORL 22 2nd and Love.
ORL gets Osman, Holiday,CLE 22 1st lottery protected then top 4 protected in 23 & 24 then unprotected in 25,NOP 21 2nd w/ CHI swap rights and 2020 13th(Hampton).
-________________________________
post trade
20-21 CLE
1-15 roster:
Sexton/Garland/Exum
Windler/NAW/[kpj/exum]
KPJ/Okeke/[windler]
Gordon/Nance/[okeke]/Wade
Drummond/Hayes/[nance]/Bell
two ways:
42nd pick(ie; Quickly/Hinton/Alexander/Bane etc)
udfa/fa/open spot-
so CLE outgoing:
Love,5th,Osman,22 protected 1st,McKinnie.
incoming:
Gordon,15(Poku or sim stash),Hayes,NAW,s/t Okeke.
--------------
more details
NOP outgoing :
Holiday,NAW,JHayes 13th,42nd, CLE 22 2nd,NOP 21 2nd w/ CHI swap rights.
incoming:
Love,(5th Okoro or sim)McKinnie,Birch,ORL 22 2nd.
--------------
Orlando outgoing:
Gordon,Birch,Okeke,15
incoming:
Holiday,Osman,13th(Hampton or sim),NOP 21 2nd w/ CHI swap rights,CLE 22 1st lottery protected etc maybe CLE throws in WAS 22 2nd in the Okeke s/t