2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want???

[NoDopeOnSundays]

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I like Patrick more than Vassell, showed more with the ball in his hands and got to the line more despite playing less.

[stuporman]

If I'm taking a 3&d guy then they need to hit 3s at a good clip already not have to hope and wait for them to turn into a good 3ball shooter eventually

[jvsimonetti0514]

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I like Patrick more than Vassell, showed more with the ball in his hands and got to the line more despite playing less.

Yeah, I like him reminds me a little bit of Marcus Morris. I'd rather take a chance on someone that has upside in creating shots for himself than someone like Vassell.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

If I'm taking a 3&d guy then they need to hit 3s at a good clip already not have to hope and wait for them to turn into a good 3ball shooter eventually

I don't want a 3&D guy, I want a dynamic player that can do more than just shoot catch & shoot threes on offense. It would be one thing if Vassell took a lot of threes, but he didn't, the volume & his freethrow shooting make it hard to tell if his shot is real or not. If the shooting isn't real then you're in trouble because there's not much else there offensively.

[Garbagelo]

if you draft a 3 and D player in the lotto, they better be able to shoot and defend good NBA players

I'm not convinced that Vassell can do either at the NBA level

His 73 FT% is suspect for a guy who shot 40% from 3

His thin frame doesn't give me confidence that he can defend the bulkier high scoring wings, even after adding weight

Add to this his poor play making skills for a guard is a major red flag

Things just don't add up, not sure how he got so hyped

Pretty sure he won't be a bust but you don't draft Trevor Ariza with the 8th pick

Give me slasher/defender Okoro any day of the week over him. Superior athlete, finisher, strength, playmaker, and 1 on 1 defender translates better at the pro level. His shooting can be developed.

[Infinitimind]

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I like Patrick more than Vassell, showed more with the ball in his hands and got to the line more despite playing less.

We just drafted Knox who half the board wants to get rid off. Why do you want to draft another project? New York does have the patient for it, it will be frank 2.0

Take Okoro, kid contribute right away and has a chance to be a star if he gets a jumpshot

[DaGawd]

I do love Okoros potential.. dude looks like he has all the tools.. just needs to work on that jumper

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Read on Twitter

I like Patrick more than Vassell, showed more with the ball in his hands and got to the line more despite playing less.

We just drafted Knox who half the board wants to get rid off. Why do you want to draft another project? New York does have the patient for it, it will be frank 2.0

Take Okoro, kid contribute right away and has a chance to be a star if he gets a jumpshot

The first and second half of this post got me laughing bro


Don't take a project, but then you say Okoro? Almost anyone we draft at 8 is a project.

[HEZI]

I do love Okoros potential.. dude looks like he has all the tools.. just needs to work on that jumper

Same. I like him a lot just wish he was more reliable as a shooter.

[Fat]

For me personally I’ve narrowed it down to vassell or nesmith

Vassell is the cant go wrong pick imo I’m most comfortable with him at 8

Even at worse case scenario you still end up with a good athlete that’s going to be dynamic on defense, can shoot The 3 ball, fits in any offense, hustles on the boards, and has good communication skills on court. He comes with more intangibles than just being a 3/D player.


On the flipside

Nesmith is a guaranteed flamethrower anywhere on the court with high volume to back it up, excellent off ball movement on the court getting to spots looks likes shades of Klay thomposon. His best case scenario is probably buddy Hield If the handles get better.


Okoro it’s like double Dutch Im tryna find my way in but I’m initially hesitant big PAUSE lol. He has the most upside of either guy but drafting a non shooter at 8 seems crazy if your the Knicks the shooting and free throw% is a turn off. If okoro was a solid playmaker I think that would be more appealing to make up for the lack of shooting but he’s neither a shooter nor does he excel in playmaking he does have potential in both categories though. Overall he’s a gifted defender and athlete. I like him but I’m not crazy about it

[jvsimonetti0514]

Read on Twitter

I like Patrick more than Vassell, showed more with the ball in his hands and got to the line more despite playing less.

We just drafted Knox who half the board wants to get rid off. Why do you want to draft another project? New York does have the patient for it, it will be frank 2.0

Take Okoro, kid contribute right away and has a chance to be a star if he gets a jumpshot

If Okoro is there, I’m drafting him over Williams but that’s no guarantee. Apparently, the Cavs are big fans of his and think it will be easy to fix his jumper.

The issue with Knox is his low motor, not that he’s a project. If you could ever get him to play with any effort at all, he’d be way more tolerable to me. Williams doesn’t have any of those motor issues and actually defends. We just hired all these highly regarded development coaches, why not let them do what they do best?

[DowNY]

For me personally I’ve narrowed it down to vassell or nesmith

Vassell is the cant go wrong pick imo I’m most comfortable with him at 8

Even at worse case scenario you still end up with a good athlete that’s going to be dynamic on defense, can shoot The 3 ball, fits in any offense, hustles on the boards, and has good communication skills on court. He comes with more intangibles than just being a 3/D player.


On the flipside

Nesmith is a guaranteed flamethrower anywhere on the court with high volume to back it up, excellent off ball movement on the court getting to spots looks likes shades of Klay thomposon. His best case scenario is probably buddy Hield If the handles get better.


Okoro it’s like double Dutch Im tryna find my way in but I’m initially hesitant big PAUSE lol. He has the most upside of either guy but drafting a non shooter at 8 seems crazy if your the Knicks the shooting and free throw% is a turn off. If okoro was a solid playmaker I think that would be more appealing to make up for the lack of shooting but he’s neither a shooter nor does he excel in playmaking he does have potential in both categories though. Overall he’s a gifted defender and athlete. I like him but I’m not crazy about it

I’d personally choose Neismith. I just want more offense and that 3 is pure with dude. Him next to RJ would be fire.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

For me personally I’ve narrowed it down to vassell or nesmith

Vassell is the cant go wrong pick imo I’m most comfortable with him at 8

Even at worse case scenario you still end up with a good athlete that’s going to be dynamic on defense, can shoot The 3 ball, fits in any offense, hustles on the boards, and has good communication skills on court. He comes with more intangibles than just being a 3/D player.


On the flipside

Nesmith is a guaranteed flamethrower anywhere on the court with high volume to back it up, excellent off ball movement on the court getting to spots looks likes shades of Klay thomposon. His best case scenario is probably buddy Hield If the handles get better.


Okoro it’s like double Dutch Im tryna find my way in but I’m initially hesitant big PAUSE lol. He has the most upside of either guy but drafting a non shooter at 8 seems crazy if your the Knicks the shooting and free throw% is a turn off. If okoro was a solid playmaker I think that would be more appealing to make up for the lack of shooting but he’s neither a shooter nor playmaker he’s a gifted defender and athlete. I like him but I’m not crazy about it

Worst case scenario for Vassell isn't 3 & D, it's that the 3 isn't real and you're left with a guy who is very limited on offense. That is why you see names like Williams and Okoro so much now for us, because it's easier to teach someone to shoot than it is to teach them to dribble and dynamic players are what teams want. You can go back 10 years, and the most successful 3 & D guy taken in the lottery so far has been Otto Porter, and the second is Mikal Bridges, there are a whole lot more busts for the 3 & D player type in the lottery than there have been successes, because you can find these type of players later in the draft.

I'd much prefer Okoro over Vassell, there's just more to work with there with the hopes that he can develop into more.

[islanders11040]

Onyeka's draft stock takes a bump with the game winning Bam block. Hopefully pushes down someone good to us.

[Manhattan Project]

Worst case scenario for Vassell isn't 3 & D, it's that the 3 isn't real and you're left with a guy who is very limited on offense. That is why you see names like Williams and Okoro so much now for us, because it's easier to teach someone to shoot than it is to teach them to dribble and dynamic players are what teams want. You can go back 10 years, and the most successful 3 & D guy taken in the lottery so far has been Otto Porter, and the second is Mikal Bridges, there are a whole lot more busts for the 3 & D player type in the lottery than there have been successes, because you can find these type of players later in the draft.

I'd much prefer Okoro over Vassell, there's just more to work with there with the hopes that he can develop into more.

Who are the 3 and D busts in the lottery?

[DowNY]

Onyeka's draft stock takes a bump with the game winning Bam block. Hopefully pushes down someone good to us.

Lol that’s a reach

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Worst case scenario for Vassell isn't 3 & D, it's that the 3 isn't real and you're left with a guy who is very limited on offense. That is why you see names like Williams and Okoro so much now for us, because it's easier to teach someone to shoot than it is to teach them to dribble and dynamic players are what teams want. You can go back 10 years, and the most successful 3 & D guy taken in the lottery so far has been Otto Porter, and the second is Mikal Bridges, there are a whole lot more busts for the 3 & D player type in the lottery than there have been successes, because you can find these type of players later in the draft.

I'd much prefer Okoro over Vassell, there's just more to work with there with the hopes that he can develop into more.

Who are the 3 and D busts in the lottery?

Justise Winslow
Tauren Prince
Stanley Johnson
Ben McLemore


You can count MKG in there halfway, because he was drafted under the idea you're getting a point forward/defender that could hopefully hit the three in the future. Justin Jackson was taken 15th, he's been a bust, going in the first round for him was almost all centered around him being 3 & D. Right now, a guy with the 3 & D label in the draft just means someone that can't dribble as far as I'm concerned, and you draft these guys later on, like why not just go after Robert Woodard with a later pick? Nobody is really drafting these 3 & D guys in the lottery, the best pure 3 & D wing in the league now is RoCo and he was undrafted.

[islanders11040]

Onyeka's draft stock takes a bump with the game winning Bam block. Hopefully pushes down someone good to us.

Lol that’s a reach

let me have this

[Fat]

For me personally I’ve narrowed it down to vassell or nesmith

Vassell is the cant go wrong pick imo I’m most comfortable with him at 8

Even at worse case scenario you still end up with a good athlete that’s going to be dynamic on defense, can shoot The 3 ball, fits in any offense, hustles on the boards, and has good communication skills on court. He comes with more intangibles than just being a 3/D player.


On the flipside

Nesmith is a guaranteed flamethrower anywhere on the court with high volume to back it up, excellent off ball movement on the court getting to spots looks likes shades of Klay thomposon. His best case scenario is probably buddy Hield If the handles get better.


Okoro it’s like double Dutch Im tryna find my way in but I’m initially hesitant big PAUSE lol. He has the most upside of either guy but drafting a non shooter at 8 seems crazy if your the Knicks the shooting and free throw% is a turn off. If okoro was a solid playmaker I think that would be more appealing to make up for the lack of shooting but he’s neither a shooter nor playmaker he’s a gifted defender and athlete. I like him but I’m not crazy about it

Worst case scenario for Vassell isn't 3 & D, it's that the 3 isn't real and you're left with a guy who is very limited on offense. That is why you see names like Williams and Okoro so much now for us, because it's easier to teach someone to shoot than it is to teach them to dribble and dynamic players are what teams want. You can go back 10 years, and the most successful 3 & D guy taken in the lottery so far has been Otto Porter, and the second is Mikal Bridges, there are a whole lot more busts for the 3 & D player type in the lottery than there have been successes, because you can find these type of players later in the draft.

I'd much prefer Okoro over Vassell, there's just more to work with there with the hopes that he can develop into more.

What’s the indication he can’t shoot the 3?

“ This past season, he finished fifth in the ACC in three-point percentage, shooting 41.5% on 3.5 attempts per game. In Vassell’s freshman season, he shot 41.9% from beyond the arc on 1.9 attempts per game, so his successful three-point shooting is something that has been a staple in his game for his entire career, not just one season.”


According to his Synergy Sports profile, Vassell was dangerous from pretty much every zone behind the three-point line in 2019-20. His highest volume of three-point attempts came from the left/right wings, where the 6-6 swing-man shot 40.8% on 49 attempts. Vassell shot 41% last season on left/right corner three-point field goals (39 attempts), and he went 8 for 18 (44%) on three-point attempts from the top of the key.


He’s gonna be an elite role player easily . I’ll take that at pick 8 in this particular draft long term next to RJ and mitch to grow with.

What’s the plan with Barret and okoro? It’s a on over lap of play styles there both drivers. Your taking away from Barrets development if you force him to be a spot up shooter while putting the ball in okoros hands and your taking away from okoros development putting the ball in Barrets hands while forcing okoro to be a spot up shooter. And the fact neither of them can shoot or hit free throws its going to be an awkward development process in general.


In today’s nba teams are coming down the court shooting the 3 ball not coming down the court with 2 drivers who are shaky shooters On the wing lol. I don’t like it man If we had a center that could space the floor and real shooters to compliment it then ok that makes more sense.

[Manhattan Project]

Justise Winslow
Tauren Prince
Stanley Johnson
Ben McLemore


You can count MKG in there halfway, because he was drafted under the idea you're getting a point forward/defender that could hopefully hit the three in the future. Justin Jackson was taken 15th, he's been a bust, going in the first round for him was almost all centered around him being 3 & D. Right now, a guy with the 3 & D label in the draft just means someone that can't dribble as far as I'm concerned, and you draft these guys later on, like why not just go after Robert Woodard with a later pick? Nobody is really drafting these 3 & D guys in the lottery, the best pure 3 & D wing in the league now is RoCo and he was undrafted.

Stanley Johnson got like 40 pounds on him coming out of college, excelled at getting to the rim and in transition. I don't think anyone considered Johnson a shooter coming out of college, in fact it was one of the areas of concern for Johnson. If anything, coming out of college he's more comparable to Woodard as both are absolute dogs on defense and strong as hell.

I wouldn't even call Winslow a bust, he was the 10th overall pick and the only thing holding him back right now is injuries, not ability. Coming out of college everyone on this board, the scouts all asked them same thing, can Winslow shoot the three? Most of his looks came off of open looks from Winslow. I don't think anyone considers Winslow a shooter, though he worked hard to improve in the NBA.

2013 draft, talk about a crap show. Ben McLemore I'd give you, but he wasn't a 3 and D prospect. He literally looked like an offensive star in the making, he had such a smoothness to his game and was athletic as hell. He was just passive a lot of the time, just had no urgency to him which made him fail really. He also wasn't half the defender Vassell is, but for the sake of the argument I'll give you McLemore.

Prince I don't even know how you call a bust, for the 12th pick he's been fine.

Like you said, the 3 and D label is meant for someone who can't dribble as far as your concerned, so I don't get how Vassell is being labeled as one by some. The improvements he made from year one to year two should squash any of those concerns. The Vassell argument by both sides has been beaten to death to this point, I just don't get people saying just draft Woodard it'll be the same thing. They literally bring different aspects to the game, Woodard relying even more on strength and athleticism. Hell people bring up the free throws, Woodard is significantly worse.

Oh well, I was just curious to see who you considered 3 and D busts. Both sides have dug deep in their trenches on the Vassell argument.