Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2

[DarkXaero]

1) I haven’t villafied kyrie for everything...many issues last year. Kyrie was one of many issues but he failed miserably in Boston. Doesn’t hold all the blame at all but he also can’t be overlooked like many of your fan base Tries to.

2) being friends or a mentor to someone doesn’t correlate to on court production/ cohesion/chemistry or being a leader in the locker room. So that’s cool that him and Tatum talk and that’s nice of kyrie. I have friends I talk to all the time and our my boys but I couldn’t work with them on a day to day basis.

3) there is a way of knowing that because I’m watching it happen live. Tatum has grown exponentially. He’s getting the ball at the end of games down the stretch. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t but he’s learning from it and getting the opportunity. Part of what makes kyrie so good is that he will take the big shot but he also would never ever defer at end of games like kemba would. Brown also made a leap.

4) luck, circumstance, what have you facts are facts. Cavs trade kyrie they still make finals, kyrie gets hurt Celtics still make ECF w/ out him, kyrie leaves Celtics and their in the conference finals without him. That’s a blemish on his resume no matter how you look at it. IT as a starting point guard =ECF, Rozier comes in = ECF , kemba= ECF.

1) Everyone failed in Boston last year, Tatum had a very subpar sophomore year, Brown wasn't very good, and you had guys like Rozier & Morris also being detrimental to the locker room chemistry. Kyrie hasn't done anything in our locker room yet, so I don't know what's being insinuated there by us overlooking things.

2) In this case, their relationship starts with basketball, it absolutely matters. They got to know each other being coworkers, and that's how their relationship started. Your personal analogy doesn't apply here.

3) Tatum has taken a huge step this year, that's actually the biggest reason for Celtics improvement. If he performs at this level last season, it would be a very different story. Kyrie deferred to Lebron plenty in Cleveland, and he also took his shots, it worked extremely well. I don't see any evidence that Kyrie would not have worked well with this version of Tatum, especially since Kemba is still getting the ball down the stretch, but not doing much with it. Going from an average player to an All NBA player is a huge leap, and it's what Tatum did from last season to this year. That can't be discounted.

4) That's a very narrow minded view of looking at things and I can do it too: Cavs with Kyrie = championship, Cavs without Kyrie = no championship. That's like removing all the context and circumstance, and putting out a blanket statement.

Your doing backflips because kyrie deferred to lebron James? Haha. Of course he did. He was never going to defer to a player he deemed wasn’t his equal or younger than him when he was in a mentor role. That’s why tatum has flourished this season because he was thrown the keys and and empowered by kemba and his teammates.

This version of tatum doesn’t happen with kyrie- that’s the whole point and the disconnect you don’t get. Doesn’t mean kyrie sucks and can’t play basketball and won’t work out with KD but when kyrie is the “leader” alpha it won’t work and kyrie knows that that’s why he’s back as the Batman.

This has been talked about ad nauseam....the reality is and it’s fact is that kyrie left and the Celtics got better. The young players got better and the team advanced further than they did with him. kyrie is your problem to have now, enjoy him.

No one's doing backflips, I'm stating a fact, Kyrie has been on two teams in his career before BK, so that's what we have to judge him with. How many legitimate stars has Kyrie played with? Lebron James and? Who else could he have possibly deferred to, in his career? Kevin Love and Gordon Hayward?

"This version of tatum doesn’t happen with kyrie"-This is all negated by the fact that Tatum just didn't play well enough last year when he did get touches. Kyrie wasn't responsible for Tatum's subpar efficiency in regular season and especially in playoffs. Tatum's FGAs went up too from rookie year to 2nd year, and he was getting 13 FGAs per game, lets not act like he wasn't getting touches. Since you wanna talk about facts, that's a fact that Celtics fan need to acknowledge.

I know you're being smug at the end there and can't wait for Kyrie to fail with the Nets, but if it doesn't happen, will you own up to being wrong?

[MagicBagley18]

There's no way of knowing that. Even during this playoffs run for the Celtics, Kyrie has been in touch with Tatum to encourage him, and Tatum considers him a big brother figure. Marcus Smart loves Kyrie as well. You guys need to stop vilifying Kyrie for everything, and acknowledge that there were other major issues with that Celtics team as well.

1) I haven’t villafied kyrie for everything...many issues last year. Kyrie was one of many issues but he failed miserably in Boston. Doesn’t hold all the blame at all but he also can’t be overlooked like many of your fan base Tries to.

2) being friends or a mentor to someone doesn’t correlate to on court production/ cohesion/chemistry or being a leader in the locker room. So that’s cool that him and Tatum talk and that’s nice of kyrie. I have friends I talk to all the time and our my boys but I couldn’t work with them on a day to day basis.

3) there is a way of knowing that because I’m watching it happen live. Tatum has grown exponentially. He’s getting the ball at the end of games down the stretch. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t but he’s learning from it and getting the opportunity. Part of what makes kyrie so good is that he will take the big shot but he also would never ever defer at end of games like kemba would. Brown also made a leap.

4) luck, circumstance, what have you facts are facts. Cavs trade kyrie they still make finals, kyrie gets hurt Celtics still make ECF w/ out him, kyrie leaves Celtics and their in the conference finals without him. That’s a blemish on his resume no matter how you look at it. IT as a starting point guard =ECF, Rozier comes in = ECF , kemba= ECF.

The last part makes no sense to a degree. The main talking about about the 2015 finals is Lebron had no Kyrie or love. When he had both. Kyrie put up 41 in a eliminating game And outperformed the unanimous MVP. Lebron did need him, to say otherwise is ridiculous. They got smoked in the 2018 finals and Lebron has went to 7 other finals in total without Kyrie. That says a lot more about Bron than Kyrie To be honest but suggesting the Cavs didn’t need Kyrie is foolery. Lebron would even tell you that

You have a point about the whole Celtics thing and perhaps Kyrie overall. Then again, nobody looks at Kyrie as a top 5 player. Most people understand his role on a team, atleast where he’s best at. Everybody except the Celtics expecting him to be a leader I suppose.

That point stands firm. Cavs don’t win 2016 if Kyrie was hurt. No amount of blemishes can take that away. Cavs still making the finals is a testament more so to Lebron, not Kyrie. He got smoked with Kyrie and got Swept without him

I never suggested cavs didn’t need kyrie. I just said the facts and y’all can interpret them however you want. Cavs trade him and they still made the finals, he gets hurt and the team still makes the conference finals. He leaves which should set a franchise back losing a player like him and the team advances further without him and the young players develop.

You can take it however u want but it’s all fact. Doesn’t mean he won’t be successful in Brooklyn.

[Godsplan]

1) Everyone failed in Boston last year, Tatum had a very subpar sophomore year, Brown wasn't very good, and you had guys like Rozier & Morris also being detrimental to the locker room chemistry. Kyrie hasn't done anything in our locker room yet, so I don't know what's being insinuated there by us overlooking things.

2) In this case, their relationship starts with basketball, it absolutely matters. They got to know each other being coworkers, and that's how their relationship started. Your personal analogy doesn't apply here.

3) Tatum has taken a huge step this year, that's actually the biggest reason for Celtics improvement. If he performs at this level last season, it would be a very different story. Kyrie deferred to Lebron plenty in Cleveland, and he also took his shots, it worked extremely well. I don't see any evidence that Kyrie would not have worked well with this version of Tatum, especially since Kemba is still getting the ball down the stretch, but not doing much with it. Going from an average player to an All NBA player is a huge leap, and it's what Tatum did from last season to this year. That can't be discounted.

4) That's a very narrow minded view of looking at things and I can do it too: Cavs with Kyrie = championship, Cavs without Kyrie = no championship. That's like removing all the context and circumstance, and putting out a blanket statement.

Your doing backflips because kyrie deferred to lebron James? Haha. Of course he did. He was never going to defer to a player he deemed wasn’t his equal or younger than him when he was in a mentor role. That’s why tatum has flourished this season because he was thrown the keys and and empowered by kemba and his teammates.

This version of tatum doesn’t happen with kyrie- that’s the whole point and the disconnect you don’t get. Doesn’t mean kyrie sucks and can’t play basketball and won’t work out with KD but when kyrie is the “leader” alpha it won’t work and kyrie knows that that’s why he’s back as the Batman.

This has been talked about ad nauseam....the reality is and it’s fact is that kyrie left and the Celtics got better. The young players got better and the team advanced further than they did with him. kyrie is your problem to have now, enjoy him.

No one's doing backflips, I'm stating a fact, Kyrie has been on two teams in his career before BK, so that's what we have to judge him with. How many legitimate stars has Kyrie played with? Lebron James and? Who else could he have possibly deferred to, in his career? Kevin Love and Gordon Hayward?

"This version of tatum doesn’t happen with kyrie"-This is all negated by the fact that Tatum just didn't play well enough last year when he did get touches. Kyrie wasn't responsible for Tatum's subpar efficiency in regular season and especially in playoffs. Tatum's FGAs went up too from rookie year to 2nd year, and he was getting 13 FGAs per game, lets not act like he wasn't getting touches. Since you wanna talk about facts, that's a fact that Celtics fan need to acknowledge.

I know you're being smug at the end there and can't wait for Kyrie to fail with the Nets, but if it doesn't happen, will you own up to being wrong?

A lot of Celtics fans still in there feelings about the 2 years he was there. I barely see Cavs fans talking about how he left. It’s strange. Some Celtics fan tried me on twitter About this and got told off to the point he backed off

[MagicBagley18]

1) Everyone failed in Boston last year, Tatum had a very subpar sophomore year, Brown wasn't very good, and you had guys like Rozier & Morris also being detrimental to the locker room chemistry. Kyrie hasn't done anything in our locker room yet, so I don't know what's being insinuated there by us overlooking things.

2) In this case, their relationship starts with basketball, it absolutely matters. They got to know each other being coworkers, and that's how their relationship started. Your personal analogy doesn't apply here.

3) Tatum has taken a huge step this year, that's actually the biggest reason for Celtics improvement. If he performs at this level last season, it would be a very different story. Kyrie deferred to Lebron plenty in Cleveland, and he also took his shots, it worked extremely well. I don't see any evidence that Kyrie would not have worked well with this version of Tatum, especially since Kemba is still getting the ball down the stretch, but not doing much with it. Going from an average player to an All NBA player is a huge leap, and it's what Tatum did from last season to this year. That can't be discounted.

4) That's a very narrow minded view of looking at things and I can do it too: Cavs with Kyrie = championship, Cavs without Kyrie = no championship. That's like removing all the context and circumstance, and putting out a blanket statement.

Your doing backflips because kyrie deferred to lebron James? Haha. Of course he did. He was never going to defer to a player he deemed wasn’t his equal or younger than him when he was in a mentor role. That’s why tatum has flourished this season because he was thrown the keys and and empowered by kemba and his teammates.

This version of tatum doesn’t happen with kyrie- that’s the whole point and the disconnect you don’t get. Doesn’t mean kyrie sucks and can’t play basketball and won’t work out with KD but when kyrie is the “leader” alpha it won’t work and kyrie knows that that’s why he’s back as the Batman.

This has been talked about ad nauseam....the reality is and it’s fact is that kyrie left and the Celtics got better. The young players got better and the team advanced further than they did with him. kyrie is your problem to have now, enjoy him.

No one's doing backflips, I'm stating a fact, Kyrie has been on two teams in his career before BK, so that's what we have to judge him with. How many legitimate stars has Kyrie played with? Lebron James and? Who else could he have possibly deferred to, in his career? Kevin Love and Gordon Hayward?

"This version of tatum doesn’t happen with kyrie"-This is all negated by the fact that Tatum just didn't play well enough last year when he did get touches. Kyrie wasn't responsible for Tatum's subpar efficiency in regular season and especially in playoffs. Tatum's FGAs went up too from rookie year to 2nd year, and he was getting 13 FGAs per game, lets not act like he wasn't getting touches. Since you wanna talk about facts, that's a fact that Celtics fan need to acknowledge.

I know you're being smug at the end there and can't wait for Kyrie to fail with the Nets, but if it doesn't happen, will you own up to being wrong?

Yes the facts are as follows and thanks for making my point- kyrie leaves Tatum gets more touches and he flourishes and the teams better- those touches and growth don’t happen with kyrie. Period. You are correct tatum had a bad year last year and last year wasn’t fun for him and there was dysfunction....wonder why?

Was it bad roster construction? Yes. Did stevens handle things wrong yes? but it also had a lot to do with their best player being moody and detached from the team like he’s been everywhere he’s been and remains to be seen how he will be in Brooklyn.

You want to say Celtics fans blame kyrie for everything even tho I just said Stevens and ainge own blame also but put all of Tatums shortcoming last year on tatum without giving kyrie any blame. That’s your interpretation.

What’s not open for interpretation is that kyrie a top 15 player left us and we are better off without him (again). facts.

[Godsplan]

1) I haven’t villafied kyrie for everything...many issues last year. Kyrie was one of many issues but he failed miserably in Boston. Doesn’t hold all the blame at all but he also can’t be overlooked like many of your fan base Tries to.

2) being friends or a mentor to someone doesn’t correlate to on court production/ cohesion/chemistry or being a leader in the locker room. So that’s cool that him and Tatum talk and that’s nice of kyrie. I have friends I talk to all the time and our my boys but I couldn’t work with them on a day to day basis.

3) there is a way of knowing that because I’m watching it happen live. Tatum has grown exponentially. He’s getting the ball at the end of games down the stretch. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t but he’s learning from it and getting the opportunity. Part of what makes kyrie so good is that he will take the big shot but he also would never ever defer at end of games like kemba would. Brown also made a leap.

4) luck, circumstance, what have you facts are facts. Cavs trade kyrie they still make finals, kyrie gets hurt Celtics still make ECF w/ out him, kyrie leaves Celtics and their in the conference finals without him. That’s a blemish on his resume no matter how you look at it. IT as a starting point guard =ECF, Rozier comes in = ECF , kemba= ECF.

The last part makes no sense to a degree. The main talking about about the 2015 finals is Lebron had no Kyrie or love. When he had both. Kyrie put up 41 in a eliminating game And outperformed the unanimous MVP. Lebron did need him, to say otherwise is ridiculous. They got smoked in the 2018 finals and Lebron has went to 7 other finals in total without Kyrie. That says a lot more about Bron than Kyrie To be honest but suggesting the Cavs didn’t need Kyrie is foolery. Lebron would even tell you that

You have a point about the whole Celtics thing and perhaps Kyrie overall. Then again, nobody looks at Kyrie as a top 5 player. Most people understand his role on a team, atleast where he’s best at. Everybody except the Celtics expecting him to be a leader I suppose.

That point stands firm. Cavs don’t win 2016 if Kyrie was hurt. No amount of blemishes can take that away. Cavs still making the finals is a testament more so to Lebron, not Kyrie. He got smoked with Kyrie and got Swept without him

I never suggested cavs didn’t need kyrie. I just said the facts and y’all can interpret them however you want. Cavs trade him and they still made the finals, he gets hurt and the team still makes the conference finals. He leaves which should set a franchise back losing a player like him and the team advances further without him and the young players develop.

You can take it however u want but it’s all fact. Doesn’t mean he won’t be successful in Brooklyn.

No you goalpost moved. Cavs needed Kyrie when it mattered and it was proven. I told the facts of the matter. Cavs, Lebron, Lebron fans maint talking point about 2015: No Kyrie and love. Kyrie outperformed Steph Curry, and made big shots.

Your whole point was teams get better without Kyrie, and you bring up the 2018 cavs. So are you suggesting the Cavs got better without Kyrie???? If so, explain how. Cause they made the finals? Cause Lebron has went to 9 finals in total and may go to his 10th. The hell that got to do with Kyrie?? That’s the greatness of Lebron. I’m not challenging what you are saying about The Celtics

I challenge you sneaking the 2018 cavs in there like we suppose to be stupid or something. Lebron made 7 other finals without Kyrie, and he’s more than likely making his 8th without him this year. That has nothing to do with Kyrie. that’s a testament to Lebron james

So, you bringing up the 2018 cavs gets what point across? That they were better without Kyrie??

You telling me, the 2018 cavs, were better.....

[tyguy]

He hasn't been the same since he hurt his back carrying the entire team in 2016.

Woo boy there is still left over salt from 2016?

Me: Compliments players tremendous play in hate thread

RealGM: YOU STILL SALTY BRO!?!?!?

You and I both know that was thinly veiled shot at LeBron.

[MagicBagley18]

Your doing backflips because kyrie deferred to lebron James? Haha. Of course he did. He was never going to defer to a player he deemed wasn’t his equal or younger than him when he was in a mentor role. That’s why tatum has flourished this season because he was thrown the keys and and empowered by kemba and his teammates.

This version of tatum doesn’t happen with kyrie- that’s the whole point and the disconnect you don’t get. Doesn’t mean kyrie sucks and can’t play basketball and won’t work out with KD but when kyrie is the “leader” alpha it won’t work and kyrie knows that that’s why he’s back as the Batman.

This has been talked about ad nauseam....the reality is and it’s fact is that kyrie left and the Celtics got better. The young players got better and the team advanced further than they did with him. kyrie is your problem to have now, enjoy him.

No one's doing backflips, I'm stating a fact, Kyrie has been on two teams in his career before BK, so that's what we have to judge him with. How many legitimate stars has Kyrie played with? Lebron James and? Who else could he have possibly deferred to, in his career? Kevin Love and Gordon Hayward?

"This version of tatum doesn’t happen with kyrie"-This is all negated by the fact that Tatum just didn't play well enough last year when he did get touches. Kyrie wasn't responsible for Tatum's subpar efficiency in regular season and especially in playoffs. Tatum's FGAs went up too from rookie year to 2nd year, and he was getting 13 FGAs per game, lets not act like he wasn't getting touches. Since you wanna talk about facts, that's a fact that Celtics fan need to acknowledge.

I know you're being smug at the end there and can't wait for Kyrie to fail with the Nets, but if it doesn't happen, will you own up to being wrong?

A lot of Celtics fans still in there feelings about the 2 years he was there. I barely see Cavs fans talking about how he left. It’s strange. Some Celtics fan tried me on twitter About this and got told off to the point he backed off

Cool story. You put that on your tombstone for all to hear one day. I don’t speak for all Celtics fans, I speak for myself but like I said this is a tired issue and at this point it’s boring because we are clearly so much better off without kyrie or last year so enjoy yourself

[MagicBagley18]

The last part makes no sense to a degree. The main talking about about the 2015 finals is Lebron had no Kyrie or love. When he had both. Kyrie put up 41 in a eliminating game And outperformed the unanimous MVP. Lebron did need him, to say otherwise is ridiculous. They got smoked in the 2018 finals and Lebron has went to 7 other finals in total without Kyrie. That says a lot more about Bron than Kyrie To be honest but suggesting the Cavs didn’t need Kyrie is foolery. Lebron would even tell you that

You have a point about the whole Celtics thing and perhaps Kyrie overall. Then again, nobody looks at Kyrie as a top 5 player. Most people understand his role on a team, atleast where he’s best at. Everybody except the Celtics expecting him to be a leader I suppose.

That point stands firm. Cavs don’t win 2016 if Kyrie was hurt. No amount of blemishes can take that away. Cavs still making the finals is a testament more so to Lebron, not Kyrie. He got smoked with Kyrie and got Swept without him

I never suggested cavs didn’t need kyrie. I just said the facts and y’all can interpret them however you want. Cavs trade him and they still made the finals, he gets hurt and the team still makes the conference finals. He leaves which should set a franchise back losing a player like him and the team advances further without him and the young players develop.

You can take it however u want but it’s all fact. Doesn’t mean he won’t be successful in Brooklyn.

No you goalpost moved. Cavs needed Kyrie when it mattered and it was proven. I told the facts of the matter. Cavs, Lebron, Lebron fans maint talking point about 2015: No Kyrie and love. Kyrie outperformed Steph Curry, and made big shots.

Your whole point was teams get better without Kyrie, and you bring up the 2018 cavs. So are you suggesting the Cavs got better without Kyrie???? If so, explain how. Cause they made the finals? Cause Lebron has went to 9 finals in total and may go to his 10th. The hell that got to do with Kyrie?? That’s the greatness of Lebron. I’m not challenging what you are saying about The Celtics

I challenge you sneaking the 2018 cavs in there like we suppose to be stupid or something. Lebron made 7 other finals without Kyrie, and he’s more than likely making his 8th without him this year. That has nothing to do with Kyrie. that’s a testament to Lebron james

So, you bringing up the 2018 cavs gets what point across? That they were better without Kyrie??

You telling me, the 2018 cavs, were better.....

No the point went over your head that kyrie leaves team and the teams don’t really miss him at all or get better. Cavs ceiling w kyrie was to lose to juggernaut warriors in finals and the same without him. He leaves us and we are better without him, he gets hurt we go on a run without him.

He plays we lose in disappointing fashion in the 2nd round. Like I said, bad luck or whatever u call it- it all happened

[Godsplan]

I never suggested cavs didn’t need kyrie. I just said the facts and y’all can interpret them however you want. Cavs trade him and they still made the finals, he gets hurt and the team still makes the conference finals. He leaves which should set a franchise back losing a player like him and the team advances further without him and the young players develop.

You can take it however u want but it’s all fact. Doesn’t mean he won’t be successful in Brooklyn.

No you goalpost moved. Cavs needed Kyrie when it mattered and it was proven. I told the facts of the matter. Cavs, Lebron, Lebron fans maint talking point about 2015: No Kyrie and love. Kyrie outperformed Steph Curry, and made big shots.

Your whole point was teams get better without Kyrie, and you bring up the 2018 cavs. So are you suggesting the Cavs got better without Kyrie???? If so, explain how. Cause they made the finals? Cause Lebron has went to 9 finals in total and may go to his 10th. The hell that got to do with Kyrie?? That’s the greatness of Lebron. I’m not challenging what you are saying about The Celtics

I challenge you sneaking the 2018 cavs in there like we suppose to be stupid or something. Lebron made 7 other finals without Kyrie, and he’s more than likely making his 8th without him this year. That has nothing to do with Kyrie. that’s a testament to Lebron james

So, you bringing up the 2018 cavs gets what point across? That they were better without Kyrie??

You telling me, the 2018 cavs, were better.....

No the point went over your head that kyrie leaves team and the teams don’t really miss him at all or get better. Cavs ceiling w kyrie was to lose to juggernaut warriors in finals and the same without him. He leaves us and we are better without him, he gets hurt we go on a run without him.

He plays we lose in disappointing fashion in the 2nd round. Like I said, bad luck or whatever u call it- it all happened

This makes no sense. The Cavs got swept in 2018, the year prior with Kyrie they atleast won one game . So how they get better? Especially since they had a massive overhaul in their roster that same year If 2018??? They didn’t miss Kyrie cause nooo team with lebron has missed the finals since 2011 except the 2018/2019 lakers. Again, that’s not a good example, which was my point. Lebron left Miami and went to the finals the next year while Miami didn’t make the playoffs. He left the Cavs in 2010, they didn’t make the playoffs untill he came back. That’s a testament to Lebron james. Again you tried to sneak that part in there like WHO you think you fooling? the Celtics bit I understand. I just had to correct you about the Cavs cause we not about to play that game. No sir

[Godsplan]

No one's doing backflips, I'm stating a fact, Kyrie has been on two teams in his career before BK, so that's what we have to judge him with. How many legitimate stars has Kyrie played with? Lebron James and? Who else could he have possibly deferred to, in his career? Kevin Love and Gordon Hayward?

"This version of tatum doesn’t happen with kyrie"-This is all negated by the fact that Tatum just didn't play well enough last year when he did get touches. Kyrie wasn't responsible for Tatum's subpar efficiency in regular season and especially in playoffs. Tatum's FGAs went up too from rookie year to 2nd year, and he was getting 13 FGAs per game, lets not act like he wasn't getting touches. Since you wanna talk about facts, that's a fact that Celtics fan need to acknowledge.

I know you're being smug at the end there and can't wait for Kyrie to fail with the Nets, but if it doesn't happen, will you own up to being wrong?

A lot of Celtics fans still in there feelings about the 2 years he was there. I barely see Cavs fans talking about how he left. It’s strange. Some Celtics fan tried me on twitter About this and got told off to the point he backed off

Cool story. You put that on your tombstone for all to hear one day. I don’t speak for all Celtics fans, I speak for myself but like I said this is a tired issue and at this point it’s boring because we are clearly so much better off without kyrie or last year so enjoy yourself

If you was tired of talking about it you wouldn’t have came in here. For as long as I’ve been reading the GB, I’ve seen you in plenty of Kyrie/Nets related threads. You like the topic as much as the next one. Own up to it. I didn’t disagree without your whole point anyway. Just the Cavs Part. You were corrected

[MagicBagley18]

No you goalpost moved. Cavs needed Kyrie when it mattered and it was proven. I told the facts of the matter. Cavs, Lebron, Lebron fans maint talking point about 2015: No Kyrie and love. Kyrie outperformed Steph Curry, and made big shots.

Your whole point was teams get better without Kyrie, and you bring up the 2018 cavs. So are you suggesting the Cavs got better without Kyrie???? If so, explain how. Cause they made the finals? Cause Lebron has went to 9 finals in total and may go to his 10th. The hell that got to do with Kyrie?? That’s the greatness of Lebron. I’m not challenging what you are saying about The Celtics

I challenge you sneaking the 2018 cavs in there like we suppose to be stupid or something. Lebron made 7 other finals without Kyrie, and he’s more than likely making his 8th without him this year. That has nothing to do with Kyrie. that’s a testament to Lebron james

So, you bringing up the 2018 cavs gets what point across? That they were better without Kyrie??

You telling me, the 2018 cavs, were better.....

No the point went over your head that kyrie leaves team and the teams don’t really miss him at all or get better. Cavs ceiling w kyrie was to lose to juggernaut warriors in finals and the same without him. He leaves us and we are better without him, he gets hurt we go on a run without him.

He plays we lose in disappointing fashion in the 2nd round. Like I said, bad luck or whatever u call it- it all happened

This makes no sense. The Cavs got swept in 2018, the year prior with Kyrie they atleast won one game . So how they get better? Especially since they had a massive overhaul in their roster that same year If 2018??? They didn’t miss Kyrie cause nooo team with lebron has missed the finals since 2011 except the 2018/2019 lakers. Again, that’s not a good example, which was my point. Lebron left Miami and went to the finals the next year while Miami didn’t make the playoffs. He left the Cavs in 2010, they didn’t make the playoffs untill he came back. That’s a testament to Lebron james. Again you tried to sneak that part in there like WHO you think you fooling? the Celtics bit I understand. I just had to correct you about the Cavs cause we not about to play that game. No sir

Man....you make this tough. Ceiling- their ceiling was the finals. No one was beating golden state. They made the finals again. Never said better said the team had the same ceiling or gets better. Celtics got better. Cavs same ceiling. No change.

Last point on this because this is really played out but the Celtics are better this year without kyrie. It’s not a debate. you shouldn’t be a superstar and leave a team and then that team who you left doesn’t miss a beat and gets better.

Enjoy kyrie- I’m sure all us Celtics fans will regret him ever leaving us.

[nbhadja]

He is very overrated. He is not a winner and he does almost everything terribly outside of scoring.

[Woodsanity]

Gun to your head, him or Westbrook?

Kyrie easily though both are overrated as f. At least Kyrie is an efficient scorer though he can't guard a garbage can and is severely lacking as a playmaker. He still does one thing at an elite level.

Westbrook can't do anything well at this point besides bricking shots and making dumb turnovers. He is washed, he was a 100% athleticism player.

[Godsplan]

No the point went over your head that kyrie leaves team and the teams don’t really miss him at all or get better. Cavs ceiling w kyrie was to lose to juggernaut warriors in finals and the same without him. He leaves us and we are better without him, he gets hurt we go on a run without him.

He plays we lose in disappointing fashion in the 2nd round. Like I said, bad luck or whatever u call it- it all happened

This makes no sense. The Cavs got swept in 2018, the year prior with Kyrie they atleast won one game . So how they get better? Especially since they had a massive overhaul in their roster that same year If 2018??? They didn’t miss Kyrie cause nooo team with lebron has missed the finals since 2011 except the 2018/2019 lakers. Again, that’s not a good example, which was my point. Lebron left Miami and went to the finals the next year while Miami didn’t make the playoffs. He left the Cavs in 2010, they didn’t make the playoffs untill he came back. That’s a testament to Lebron james. Again you tried to sneak that part in there like WHO you think you fooling? the Celtics bit I understand. I just had to correct you about the Cavs cause we not about to play that game. No sir

Man....you make this tough. Ceiling- their ceiling was the finals. No one was beating golden state. They made the finals again. Never said better said the team had the same ceiling or gets better. Celtics got better. Cavs same ceiling. No change.

Last point on this because this is really played out but the Celtics are better this year without kyrie. It’s not a debate. you shouldn’t be a superstar and leave a team and then that team who you left doesn’t miss a beat and gets better.

Enjoy kyrie- I’m sure all us Celtics fans will regret him ever leaving us.

This still makes no sense. There ceiling was WINNING. KD joining golden state put a stop to that with or without Kyrie Irving. They lost with him and without him. The difference is with him they won atleast won one game They also were 12-2 in the East playoffs with Kyrie. Without Kyrie. They were dragged to 2 game 7s, and got swept in the finals, not to mention the massive overhaul at the trade deadline.

So how they get better?? They lost more games in the post season without him not to mention trading most of their team during the deadline. That’s “getting better” in your mind? now it’s about the ceiling who you think you fooling???

Getting better =/ ceiling getting better means winning more than one game in the finals without Kyrie. Not winning less than you did with him. The Celtics won more games without Kyrie In the post season. The Cavs won less without Kyrie in the post season. Again tell me how this makes sense in your head??

Should of just stuck with your Celtics talking point. I saw a chink in your armor and caught you slipping

[Pelly24]

1) I haven’t villafied kyrie for everything...many issues last year. Kyrie was one of many issues but he failed miserably in Boston. Doesn’t hold all the blame at all but he also can’t be overlooked like many of your fan base Tries to.

2) being friends or a mentor to someone doesn’t correlate to on court production/ cohesion/chemistry or being a leader in the locker room. So that’s cool that him and Tatum talk and that’s nice of kyrie. I have friends I talk to all the time and our my boys but I couldn’t work with them on a day to day basis.

3) there is a way of knowing that because I’m watching it happen live. Tatum has grown exponentially. He’s getting the ball at the end of games down the stretch. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t but he’s learning from it and getting the opportunity. Part of what makes kyrie so good is that he will take the big shot but he also would never ever defer at end of games like kemba would. Brown also made a leap.

4) luck, circumstance, what have you facts are facts. Cavs trade kyrie they still make finals, kyrie gets hurt Celtics still make ECF w/ out him, kyrie leaves Celtics and their in the conference finals without him. That’s a blemish on his resume no matter how you look at it. IT as a starting point guard =ECF, Rozier comes in = ECF , kemba= ECF.

The last part makes no sense to a degree. The main talking about about the 2015 finals is Lebron had no Kyrie or love. When he had both. Kyrie put up 41 in a eliminating game And outperformed the unanimous MVP. Lebron did need him, to say otherwise is ridiculous. They got smoked in the 2018 finals and Lebron has went to 7 other finals in total without Kyrie. That says a lot more about Bron than Kyrie To be honest but suggesting the Cavs didn’t need Kyrie is foolery. Lebron would even tell you that

You have a point about the whole Celtics thing and perhaps Kyrie overall. Then again, nobody looks at Kyrie as a top 5 player. Most people understand his role on a team, atleast where he’s best at. Everybody except the Celtics expecting him to be a leader I suppose.

That point stands firm. Cavs don’t win 2016 if Kyrie was hurt. No amount of blemishes can take that away. Cavs still making the finals is a testament more so to Lebron, not Kyrie. He got smoked with Kyrie and got Swept without him

I never suggested cavs didn’t need kyrie. I just said the facts and y’all can interpret them however you want. Cavs trade him and they still made the finals, he gets hurt and the team still makes the conference finals. He leaves which should set a franchise back losing a player like him and the team advances further without him and the young players develop.

You can take it however u want but it’s all fact. Doesn’t mean he won’t be successful in Brooklyn.

You say you're presenting facts but they're devoid of context. Most of what you say is a testament to the Eastern Conference being an absolute joke before 2019. The celtics lost against LeBron who had nothing but role players. If Kyrie is there they stand a much better chance and probably win. The bucks and Giannis clearly made a leap after they upgraded their coach, and Marcus Smart was totally healthy in 2018 playoffs, Horford was a markedly less effective in 2019 verus 2018 by every measure, Kemba is being carried and has been maybe the third option in the playoffs so far and only feasted w. two all-star wings beside him and Philly missing their only playmaker and by far best perimeter defender. IT4 had a very good playoff run. The east was also devoid of any actual top players outside of Kyrie and LeBron and Giannis at the time, and for a brief time Oladipo. I'm not impressed with going through the east before 2019. They literally had nobody. Kawhi went over there and took over immediately, same thing with Jimmy once he joined a good team.

As for never deferring, that's really really an overstated narrative. He passed at the end of games all the time, but he complained that one time. See below:

Watch on YouTube

I would also say that he's been one of the best clutch players in the whole league since he came in years ago. When you have someone that can get wherever they want at any time and make every shot and pass, yeah, you should probably get the ball. We saw Tatum take some awful shots toward the end of last game. He could've used a Kyrie in that instance. Maybe Kyrie halted Tatum's development a bit, in the same way Harden was held back from playing with KD and Russ. But that doesn't mean that they should've taken a big step back at that point lol. They both won MVPs. Kyrie averaged 24/7/5 on 60 TS% on near 50/40/90 and led the celtics to a 10th ranked offense without another star offensive player. He had every right to have a 30% usage rate, which btw is lower than a lot of other elite offensive players.


As for his leaving not having impact, when you leave LeBron that team will be fine. When you leave a great organization like the Celtics, who obviously have a ton of talent in a conference that's still half-devoid of superstars, they won't take a huge loss. What you're sayingc omes more down to the East being weak, Kyrie's injuries (valid criticism) and Kyrie leaving great situations. It is what it is. But using terry Rozier as evidence is wild. He's one of the best things to happoen to the celtics because he left and de-clutterized the team..

[kamaze]

Gun to your head, him or Westbrook?

The gun.

Good one. Westbrook was great years ago I'd take mvp Westbrook.

[SichtingLives]

He's only overrated if you still rate him as an elite player. The majority don't. So I'd say right now he's properly rated. A very small and loud contingent of biased fans don't really sway the narrative because everyone gets the agenda by now. Whatever team he's on blindly defends him and everyone else sees him for what he is. Nothing to even debate at this point, the argument is dormant until Kyrie comes back and actually proves anyone wrong. ftr it's been a damn long time since he's done that.

[MagicBagley18]

The last part makes no sense to a degree. The main talking about about the 2015 finals is Lebron had no Kyrie or love. When he had both. Kyrie put up 41 in a eliminating game And outperformed the unanimous MVP. Lebron did need him, to say otherwise is ridiculous. They got smoked in the 2018 finals and Lebron has went to 7 other finals in total without Kyrie. That says a lot more about Bron than Kyrie To be honest but suggesting the Cavs didn’t need Kyrie is foolery. Lebron would even tell you that

You have a point about the whole Celtics thing and perhaps Kyrie overall. Then again, nobody looks at Kyrie as a top 5 player. Most people understand his role on a team, atleast where he’s best at. Everybody except the Celtics expecting him to be a leader I suppose.

That point stands firm. Cavs don’t win 2016 if Kyrie was hurt. No amount of blemishes can take that away. Cavs still making the finals is a testament more so to Lebron, not Kyrie. He got smoked with Kyrie and got Swept without him

I never suggested cavs didn’t need kyrie. I just said the facts and y’all can interpret them however you want. Cavs trade him and they still made the finals, he gets hurt and the team still makes the conference finals. He leaves which should set a franchise back losing a player like him and the team advances further without him and the young players develop.

You can take it however u want but it’s all fact. Doesn’t mean he won’t be successful in Brooklyn.

You say you're presenting facts but they're devoid of context. Most of what you say is a testament to the Eastern Conference being an absolute joke before 2019. The celtics lost against LeBron who had nothing but role players. If Kyrie is there they stand a much better chance and probably win. The bucks and Giannis clearly made a leap after they upgraded their coach, and Marcus Smart was totally healthy in 2018 playoffs, Horford was a markedly less effective in 2019 verus 2018 by every measure, Kemba is being carried and has been maybe the third option in the playoffs so far and only feasted w. two all-star wings beside him and Philly missing their only playmaker and by far best perimeter defender. IT4 had a very good playoff run. The east was also devoid of any actual top players outside of Kyrie and LeBron and Giannis at the time, and for a brief time Oladipo. I'm not impressed with going through the east before 2019. They literally had nobody. Kawhi went over there and took over immediately, same thing with Jimmy once he joined a good team.

As for never deferring, that's really really an overstated narrative. He passed at the end of games all the time, but he complained that one time. See below:

Watch on YouTube

I would also say that he's been one of the best clutch players in the whole league since he came in years ago. When you have someone that can get wherever they want at any time and make every shot and pass, yeah, you should probably get the ball. We saw Tatum take some awful shots toward the end of last game. He could've used a Kyrie in that instance. Maybe Kyrie halted Tatum's development a bit, in the same way Harden was held back from playing with KD and Russ. But that doesn't mean that they should've taken a big step back at that point lol. They both won MVPs. Kyrie averaged 24/7/5 on 60 TS% on near 50/40/90 and led the celtics to a 10th ranked offense without another star offensive player. He had every right to have a 30% usage rate, which btw is lower than a lot of other elite offensive players.


As for his leaving not having impact, when you leave LeBron that team will be fine. When you leave a great organization like the Celtics, who obviously have a ton of talent in a conference that's still half-devoid of superstars, they won't take a huge loss. What you're sayingc omes more down to the East being weak, Kyrie's injuries (valid criticism) and Kyrie leaving great situations. It is what it is. But using terry Rozier as evidence is wild. He's one of the best things to happoen to the celtics because he left and de-clutterized the team..

You guys are right I’m completely fabricating the fact that kyrie’s team he left don’t miss a beat without him and have been able to either improve or go on deep playoffs run/advance further without him.

Terry Rozier is irrelevant- you don’t need to educate me on him being part of the problem. He’s a small example of what I’m saying. There’s zero doubt that the Celtics are better this year right now without kyrie. It’s not even debatable. it’s fact that they went on a run without him and it’s fact last time he was the offense ran through him and he was the main piece- the team failed and disappointed.

that’s all fact. You can blame the conference or whatever you want but it’s reality. If you go out With friends and constantly get into trouble and blame the friends and get new ones and still get into trouble routinely - it’s a good chance the reason is you. Kyrie is a polarizing figure so he’s gotten to the point where anything he says he’s a lightning rod for criticism right or wrong but everything I’m saying about him is actually facts.

[Pelly24]

I never suggested cavs didn’t need kyrie. I just said the facts and y’all can interpret them however you want. Cavs trade him and they still made the finals, he gets hurt and the team still makes the conference finals. He leaves which should set a franchise back losing a player like him and the team advances further without him and the young players develop.

You can take it however u want but it’s all fact. Doesn’t mean he won’t be successful in Brooklyn.

You say you're presenting facts but they're devoid of context. Most of what you say is a testament to the Eastern Conference being an absolute joke before 2019. The celtics lost against LeBron who had nothing but role players. If Kyrie is there they stand a much better chance and probably win. The bucks and Giannis clearly made a leap after they upgraded their coach, and Marcus Smart was totally healthy in 2018 playoffs, Horford was a markedly less effective in 2019 verus 2018 by every measure, Kemba is being carried and has been maybe the third option in the playoffs so far and only feasted w. two all-star wings beside him and Philly missing their only playmaker and by far best perimeter defender. IT4 had a very good playoff run. The east was also devoid of any actual top players outside of Kyrie and LeBron and Giannis at the time, and for a brief time Oladipo. I'm not impressed with going through the east before 2019. They literally had nobody. Kawhi went over there and took over immediately, same thing with Jimmy once he joined a good team.

As for never deferring, that's really really an overstated narrative. He passed at the end of games all the time, but he complained that one time. See below:

Watch on YouTube

I would also say that he's been one of the best clutch players in the whole league since he came in years ago. When you have someone that can get wherever they want at any time and make every shot and pass, yeah, you should probably get the ball. We saw Tatum take some awful shots toward the end of last game. He could've used a Kyrie in that instance. Maybe Kyrie halted Tatum's development a bit, in the same way Harden was held back from playing with KD and Russ. But that doesn't mean that they should've taken a big step back at that point lol. They both won MVPs. Kyrie averaged 24/7/5 on 60 TS% on near 50/40/90 and led the celtics to a 10th ranked offense without another star offensive player. He had every right to have a 30% usage rate, which btw is lower than a lot of other elite offensive players.


As for his leaving not having impact, when you leave LeBron that team will be fine. When you leave a great organization like the Celtics, who obviously have a ton of talent in a conference that's still half-devoid of superstars, they won't take a huge loss. What you're sayingc omes more down to the East being weak, Kyrie's injuries (valid criticism) and Kyrie leaving great situations. It is what it is. But using terry Rozier as evidence is wild. He's one of the best things to happoen to the celtics because he left and de-clutterized the team..

You guys are right I’m completely fabricating the fact that kyrie’s team he left don’t miss a beat without him and have been able to either improve or go on deep playoffs run/advance further without him.

Terry Rozier is irrelevant- you don’t need to educate me on him being part of the problem. He’s a small example of what I’m saying. There’s zero doubt that the Celtics are better this year right now without kyrie. It’s not even debatable. it’s fact that they went on a run without him and it’s fact last time he was the offense ran through him and he was the main piece- the team failed and disappointed.

that’s all fact. You can blame the conference or whatever you want but it’s reality. If you go out With friends and constantly get into trouble and blame the friends and get new ones and still get into trouble routinely - it’s a good chance the reason is you. Kyrie is a polarizing figure so he’s gotten to the point where anything he says he’s a lightning rod for criticism right or wrong but everything I’m saying about him is actually facts.

LOL but why are they better? Because they don't have Kyrie grimacing and saying stupid stuff from time to time and got a point guard who dribbled the ball more and scored less and passed less with worse efficiency, or is it because two young players made obvious strides in their game and Hayward was actually healthy? That's all I'm getting at. It seems like evidence points toward it being much more the former than the latter. No one made Tatum take all of those bad long-two-pointers last year. No one made his handle shaky lol.

What you're saying are facts, but the what i said is also a set of facts. The Eastern conference barely had any all-nba player/top 10 talents and that and good coaching are the only reason a young team like that could go so far. The Cavs didn't miss a beat for the same reason. One was a great organization, the other had the best player in the world with a roster perfect for his skills.

You're not fabricating, but you leaving out these details makes a huge difference. All that said Kyrie is injury prone and a bad leader and maybe not even the best teammate. He's for sure got problems, i guess i just wish people would make more complete arguments based on stats, team structures and conference setup rather than just looking at outcomes in a vacuum. The idea that switching Kyrie for Kemba was what led to all of this success is just absurd and honestly insulting to all those players lol. And just ignoring his obvious high-level play when he was with them.

[Patsfan1081]

I can't imagine someone watching that Celtics/Heat game and thinking that Kyrie would be worse than Kemba

Yep. Kemba is just small time. Doesn't get it done down the stretch. We saw Team USA ball hog Kemba tonight and it wasn't the least bit surprising...

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using RealGM mobile app

If Kemba had LeBron maybe he’d actually have had a chance to perform in a clutch situation. What pg in the league could have led a team with Batam, MKG, Zeller, ect... anywhere? Going off one playoff series where he’s battled injuries isn’t really telling.