Jayson Tatum selected to all NBA third team

ConstableGeneva · Post #21 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:09 pm

reload141 · Post #22 » by **reload141** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:24 pm

The Comedian wrote:Tatum will put up 35/12/6 on 20 shots tomorrow.

Don't start jinxing.

Tatum will put up 20/6/3

Post #23 » by **Feed Your Head** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:30 pm

reload141 wrote:
The Comedian wrote:Tatum will put up 35/12/6 on 20 shots tomorrow.

Don't start jinxing.

Tatum will put up 20/6/3

Bloody hell, you’re right. I was just talking about my 2k simulation game, mate.

JHTruth · Post #24 » by **JHTruth** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:02 pm

bisme37 wrote:I'd pick Tatum over Siakam 10 times out of 10. I was trying to figure out what happened here and I think it's just that their counting stats are nearly identical and voters don't look at efficiency or advanced stats. So Pascal probably got the nod simply because his team had the slightly better record.

In any case I'm super happy for JT.

Part of it is political. The media loves loves loves them some Masai. In the media he is an absolute demigod. They are hurting now because he handed out such a garbage contract. Have to save some face for their boy..

Post #25 » by **Feed Your Head** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:59 pm

JHTruth wrote:
bisme37 wrote:I'd pick Tatum over Siakam 10 times out of 10. I was trying to figure out what happened here and I think it's just that their counting stats are nearly identical and voters don't look at efficiency or advanced stats. So Pascal probably got the nod simply because his team had the slightly better record.

In any case I'm super happy for JT.

Part of it is political. The media loves loves loves them some Masai. In the media he is an absolute demigod. They are hurting now because he handed out such a garbage contract. Have to save some face for their boy..

No it wasn’t, cut this crap out.

It was voted on before bubble play.

Matt5 · Post #26 » by **Matt5** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:04 am

This may be old; but check out Tatum’s and Piercee’s stats on Basketball Reference at similar ages. I loved Pierce, he was one of my favorites. Tatum has markedly better stats at a younger age. We are not seeing him at near his prime yet!

Fencer reregistered · Post #27 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:41 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:LOL @ Siakam on 2nd team All-NBA ahead of Tatum and Butler.

WE SAW THE TRUTH

Agreed. But the voting was very close between the three of them. Meanwhile, Middleton, who didn't make the teams, got more voting support than either of the third-team guards did.

Ditto Embiid, actually, even though he didn't make the teams and Simmons did.

https://www.nba.com/article/2020/09/16/nba-2019-20-all-nba-teams-official-release

JimmyFromNz · Post #28 » by **JimmyFromNz** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:50 am

Automattic wrote:This may be old; but check out Tatum’s and Piercee’s stats on Basketball Reference at similar ages. I loved Pierce, he was one of my favorites. Tatum has markedly better stats at a younger age. We are not seeing him at near his prime yet!

It's interesting huh, stats aside, this selection has capped how quickly Tatum's career trajectory has taken off this season.

It is early days, but I think I'm going to find it hard to wrap my head around the idea he could end up better than my favourite player of all time.

Jaqua92 · Post #29 » by **Jaqua92** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:06 am

JimmyFromNz wrote:
Automattic wrote:This may be old; but check out Tatum’s and Piercee’s stats on Basketball Reference at similar ages. I loved Pierce, he was one of my favorites. Tatum has markedly better stats at a younger age. We are not seeing him at near his prime yet!

It's interesting huh, stats aside, this selection has capped how quickly Tatum's career trajectory has taken off this season.

It is early days, but I think I'm going to find it hard to wrap my head around the idea he could end up better than my favourite player of all time.

He's got a long ways to go imo. Maybe not overall as a player, but

Pierce had intangibles that we don't see in Tatum. That matters.

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soxfan2003 · Post #30 » by **soxfan2003** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:11 am

Tatum deserved to make the 2nd team over Siakam who probably wasn't ieven Toronto's best player during regular season. Lowry was 6th in the entire NBA in RPM this year. Tatum around 10th and Siakam 20th. That stat is hardly perfect but I think it does get the rough pecking order of Lowry over Siakam correct. Lowry excels so consistently during the regular season that even if you think that the RPM stat overrate his impact a bit, it still singles he probably had a greater impact than Siakam. In playoffs, Lowry had the very clear advantage over Siakam.

Bam's block was impressive since he did it with his left hand. If Bam did that with his right hand, I would honestly think just a routine block but in special circumstances. But the fact that he timed it perfectly with his left hand is tougher to do. Bam shoots right handed.

I do think the defender has the advantage in those situations if it timed correctly. If you are just using one hand out of necessity, logic dictates it is tough to get that much leverage going down while having to still control/palm a basketball. If a player dunking treats it like trying to smash the ball into the basket even if it risks injuring the defender, he is liable to miss the dunk entirely if the defender just backs off. So defender has the advantage if he is willing to take the risk and he times it right.

Bam timed it perfectly on a risky play by him since if Bam times it wrong, Tatum could get the dunk and a free throw to win the game.

soxfan2003 · Post #31 » by **soxfan2003** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:18 am

Honestly I would have probably voted Butler over Tatum even though I think Tatum has surpassed Butler as an individual player. Kind of like how Brady deserves it over some QB's playing slightly better some years because of the better intangibles.

Gotta give Jimmy Butler some credit for Miami finishing the season strong, and players like Herro/Crowder new to Miami playing so well. I know Butler was new to Miami as well but he was their leader/dominant personality by most accounts. Butler giving the new players confidence is a key to their success. I am not saying the Heat players are not naturally confident but just saying Butler as Miami's big star deserves credit for how that team plays. Butler got Towns/Wiggins into the playoffs as well.

Siakam got voted by a bunch of people that probably watched Toronto play less than 5 times this year. I am not saying he didn't play well during regular season but he benefits on offense by Toronto guards being long range threats.

JimmyFromNz · Post #32 » by **JimmyFromNz** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:21 am

Jaqua92 wrote:
JimmyFromNz wrote:
Automattic wrote:This may be old; but check out Tatum’s and Piercee’s stats on Basketball Reference at similar ages. I loved Pierce, he was one of my favorites. Tatum has markedly better stats at a younger age. We are not seeing him at near his prime yet!

It's interesting huh, stats aside, this selection has capped how quickly Tatum's career trajectory has taken off this season.

It is early days, but I think I'm going to find it hard to wrap my head around the idea he could end up better than my favourite player of all time.
He's got a long ways to go imo. Maybe not overall as a player, but

Pierce had intangibles that we don't see in Tatum. That matters.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I agree, likewise there are other intangibles that Tatum is ahead of the curve - leadership at an early stage of his career, and particularly the defensive engagement. I think some of this can be attributed to the fact Jayson has been much more fortunate than Paul to have landed in a really good situation from the get go, where the franchise is on an even keel, he has a top 5 coach and a number of talented players surrounding him that gives him the space to develop. Paul on the other hand stepped into the midst of a decade of dysfunction.

It will be very interesting to see how Jayson refines his game noting his current trajectory and fact the tools are all there for him to have an even greater level of success early on in his career.

ConstableGeneva · Post #33 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:29 am

Apparently he's the youngest Celtics player to ever receive an All-NBA nod.

https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/misc-091620-all-nba-nod-remarkable-feat-22-year-old-jayson-tatum

Floody100 · Post #34 » by **Floody100** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:45 am

Bold prediction but I think he’ll make the first team next season.

Jaqua92 · Post #35 » by **Jaqua92** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:51 am

JimmyFromNz wrote:
Jaqua92 wrote:
JimmyFromNz wrote:
It's interesting huh, stats aside, this selection has capped how quickly Tatum's career trajectory has taken off this season.

It is early days, but I think I'm going to find it hard to wrap my head around the idea he could end up better than my favourite player of all time.
He's got a long ways to go imo. Maybe not overall as a player, but

Pierce had intangibles that we don't see in Tatum. That matters.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I agree, likewise there are other intangibles that Tatum is ahead of the curve - leadership at an early stage of his career, and particularly the defensive engagement. I think some of this can be attributed to the fact Jayson has been much more fortunate than Paul to have landed in a really good situation from the get go, where the franchise is on an even keel, he has a top 5 coach and a number of talented players surrounding him that gives him the space to develop. Paul on the other hand stepped into the midst of a decade of dysfunction.

It will be very interesting to see how Jayson refines his game noting his current trajectory and fact the tools are all there for him to have an even greater level of success early on in his career.

I still can't help but feel Tatum sometimes stat hunts, and tries to make super star plays.

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Jaqua92 · Post #36 » by **Jaqua92** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:52 am

Floody100 wrote:Bold prediction but I think he’ll make the first team next season.

That's gonna be tough. That means out of Lebron, Giannis, Kawhi, two of these guys will be below him.

2nd team next year and he wont get his 1st team nods until Lebron isnt a top 5 player. 2022-2023 season imo.

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Captain_Caveman · Post #37 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:22 am

JHTruth wrote:
bisme37 wrote:I'd pick Tatum over Siakam 10 times out of 10. I was trying to figure out what happened here and I think it's just that their counting stats are nearly identical and voters don't look at efficiency or advanced stats. So Pascal probably got the nod simply because his team had the slightly better record.

In any case I'm super happy for JT.

Part of it is political. The media loves loves loves them some Masai. In the media he is an absolute demigod. They are hurting now because he handed out such a garbage contract. Have to save some face for their boy..

Raps were higher in the standings. That's about it.

soxfan2003 · Post #38 » by **soxfan2003** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:14 am

Automattic wrote:This may be old; but check out Tatum’s and Piercee’s stats on Basketball Reference at similar ages. I loved Pierce, he was one of my favorites. Tatum has markedly better stats at a younger age. We are not seeing him at near his prime yet!

I will grant you that Tatum is ahead stats wise at a similar age but Pierce had a monster 3rd year in the NBA. Tatum may have had an advantage of arriving into the NBA sooner. Great players tend to develop faster in the NBA than they do college since in the NBA it is their fulltime job.

But the stats truly are also rather misleading and circumstances different. Paul Pierce entered almost a different league and for sure on a wildly different built team even though Pitino liked the 3 ball. Celtics just were lousy. Not only was Boston a rebuilding team that had sucked for a super long time but the league was still a league full of bigs and with different rules when it came to hand checking. The hand checking rules didn't change until 2004. It was still a league of bigs and Duncan playing with David Robinson wasn't that much of an oddity. Driving to the rim truly was much tougher back then. The league has evolved to favor players like Pierce and Tatum but Pierce wasn't around in his younger days to take full advantage of it. Back then if you hot hacked on your 3 point attempts or the defender was landing in your space, refs much more likely to let it go. Pierce was built well to take the abuse.

All of these things add up to a lot and that is why if you look at some of James Harden's years, he appears to be nearly as good if not better than peak Michael Jordan on offense. I am no Michael Jordan worshipper. I got Lebron as being a little better but Harden better than Jordan on offense is just a bunch of BS. It is a joke. Jordan/Bird/Magic/Dr. J all learned to play BASKETBALL and not this new form of basketball where players are now judged just as much on their acting skills than their playing skills. At least during regular season, Harden is a master at taking advantage of the idiotic direction this league has turned into. Harden is a smart guy to figure all of this out but the league is foolish to not have already reevaluated things years ago and alter the rules a bit.

Within context, I really think Pierce's first two years stats are at least as good as Tatum's but Tatum's are still more impressive in the sense he just had one year of college.

Pierce didn't play much against prime Charles Oakley teams but the first 5 years or so of his career, NBA had plenty of players that learned from watching Charles Oakley who was still a good player when Pierce entered the league.

Watch on YouTube

The above video is crazy not because of one specific incident but just the sheer volume of incidents of Oakley being an intimidator.
Most good teams had a few players that could battle people like Oakley and that made driving to the basket hazardous to your health.

estendius · Post #39 » by **estendius** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:35 am

Boston Celtics, welcome to the Jayson Tatum's era.

Post #40 » by **Spin Move** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:58 am

3rd team is perfect, recognition as a top 15 player (should help with the refs) but the message is also there is room for improvment and there are 10 guys better then you right now, you better work hard to catch them. Al I like it. Well deserved.