Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title

[loserX]

This thread isn't toxic at all. Anyway all I'm gonna say is, enjoy the ride and don't take what he does for granted because one day he'll be gone and we'll wonder if we are ever gonna see someone like him.

His entire career has been like this. Ever since he stepped foot into the nba his career has been under a microscope being compared unfavorably to Jordan since day 1. I agree, once he stops playing people will miss him.

Yeah poor LeBron, being all business and then getting all that anger. He's basically a victim, right? And it has nothing to do with calling himself "the chosen one" (or even have it tattooed all over his back), and give himself the nick name "King James", or infamously talking about "those players below me" in a recent meeting. Just stop it.

But since you mention how dearly we will miss him, heres some of the "best of G.O.A.T" stuff, highlights of a career to remember once he is gone:

<snip>

...now bring on the "hater" , "your just obsessed" comments

Literally none of this makes LeBron a worse basketball player, and none of it refutes anything said by the people you are quoting.

[trueballer7]

Lebron is an all time great but his case or GOAT died last year when he failed to even make the playoffs.

By that token, no one is the GOAT except for maybe Bill Russel on a stacked team in an 8-team league.

LeBron has as good of a case as anyone. Even if you want to say that MJ had a better peak, his longevity wasn't anywhere near LeBron's (and MJ had pretty good longevity). There's a pretty good chance you'll never see a player put up the kind of consistent dominance over such a long period as LeBron. It is more than a once-in-a-generation thing. Kareem (another GOAT contender) is probably the closest but he wasn't as dominant at the same age. Every few years someone comes around and people think, ho hum he can be the GOAT (the current candidate is Luka), but let's see how things look a decade into their careers.

Their longevities arent apples to apples. Thats made up nonsense. Jordan was piling up first places year in year out, individually and collectively, and in spectacular fashion. The other fellow flies at a lower altitude and from time to time he sort of manages to get to the top. Comparing their longevities is like comparing Jusain Bolt to Linford Christie.

[Homer38]

Lebron is an all time great but his case or GOAT died last year when he failed to even make the playoffs.

By that token, no one is the GOAT except for maybe Bill Russel on a stacked team in an 8-team league.

LeBron has as good of a case as anyone. Even if you want to say that MJ had a better peak, his longevity wasn't anywhere near LeBron's (and MJ had pretty good longevity). There's a pretty good chance you'll never see a player put up the kind of consistent dominance over such a long period as LeBron. It is more than a once-in-a-generation thing. Kareem (another GOAT contender) is probably the closest but he wasn't as dominant at the same age. Every few years someone comes around and people think, ho hum he can be the GOAT (the current candidate is Luka), but let's see how things look a decade into their careers.

Their longevities arent apples to apples. Thats made up nonsense. Jordan was piling up first places year in year out, individually and collectively, and in spectacular fashion. The other fellow flies at a lower altitude and from time to time he sort of manages to get to the top. Comparing their longevities is like comparing Jusain Bolt to Linford Christie.

The difference is that the peak of Jordan and LBJ is very similar....I mean,manu forget that at one point,LBJ won 4 MVP in 5 years.

[JoeyLightYears]

Lebron is an all time great but his case or GOAT died last year when he failed to even make the playoffs.

By that token, no one is the GOAT except for maybe Bill Russel on a stacked team in an 8-team league.

LeBron has as good of a case as anyone. Even if you want to say that MJ had a better peak, his longevity wasn't anywhere near LeBron's (and MJ had pretty good longevity). There's a pretty good chance you'll never see a player put up the kind of consistent dominance over such a long period as LeBron. It is more than a once-in-a-generation thing. Kareem (another GOAT contender) is probably the closest but he wasn't as dominant at the same age. Every few years someone comes around and people think, ho hum he can be the GOAT (the current candidate is Luka), but let's see how things look a decade into their careers.

Their longevities arent apples to apples. Thats made up nonsense. Jordan was piling up first places year in year out, individually and collectively, and in spectacular fashion. The other fellow flies at a lower altitude and from time to time he sort of manages to get to the top. Comparing their longevities is like comparing Jusain Bolt to Linford Christie.

What is your argument here? That LeBron is no longer in consideration for the best player in the league? Because I think a very good argument could be made that he's been the best player in the NBA since about year three to present.

[syrus3]

Once he leaves, he won’t be missed.

[OriginalRed]

I knew some jackass would make this thread lol.

If you have Lebron as the GOAT, you must have already had him as the GOAT before since I don't see how him winning this year with AD would suddenly be a huge shift in the rankings.

[LesGrossman]

His entire career has been like this. Ever since he stepped foot into the nba his career has been under a microscope being compared unfavorably to Jordan since day 1. I agree, once he stops playing people will miss him.

Yeah poor LeBron, being all business and then getting all that anger. He's basically a victim, right? And it has nothing to do with calling himself "the chosen one" (or even have it tattooed all over his back), and give himself the nick name "King James", or infamously talking about "those players below me" in a recent meeting. Just stop it.

But since you mention how dearly we will miss him, heres some of the "best of G.O.A.T" stuff, highlights of a career to remember once he is gone:

<snip>

...now bring on the "hater" , "your just obsessed" comments

Literally none of this makes LeBron a worse basketball player, and none of it refutes anything said by the people you are quoting.

"literally" all of this is the reason LeBron has brought most of the criticsm upon himself, which was the point of the comment i replied to. Literally.

[JoeyLightYears]

I knew some jackass would make this thread lol.

If you have Lebron as the GOAT, you must have already had him as the GOAT before since I don't see how him winning this year with AD would suddenly be a huge shift in the rankings.

It shouldn't, because basketball is a team sport, but it will.

[trueballer7]

By that token, no one is the GOAT except for maybe Bill Russel on a stacked team in an 8-team league.

LeBron has as good of a case as anyone. Even if you want to say that MJ had a better peak, his longevity wasn't anywhere near LeBron's (and MJ had pretty good longevity). There's a pretty good chance you'll never see a player put up the kind of consistent dominance over such a long period as LeBron. It is more than a once-in-a-generation thing. Kareem (another GOAT contender) is probably the closest but he wasn't as dominant at the same age. Every few years someone comes around and people think, ho hum he can be the GOAT (the current candidate is Luka), but let's see how things look a decade into their careers.

Their longevities arent apples to apples. Thats made up nonsense. Jordan was piling up first places year in year out, individually and collectively, and in spectacular fashion. The other fellow flies at a lower altitude and from time to time he sort of manages to get to the top. Comparing their longevities is like comparing Jusain Bolt to Linford Christie.

The difference is that the peak of Jordan and LBJ is very similar....I mean,manu forget that at one point,LBJ won 4 MVP in 5 years.

Regular season, perhaps. Peak LBJ went from the Boston meltdown in 2010, to the Dallas incident in 2011 and even in 2013 he looked like cowdung vs the Spurs for 5/7 of the Finals. Jordan was going ultrasound mercilessly all the way to 1993. In fact most of the time, he'd rise even higher than the expectations, which was in itself a miracle.

[JoeyLightYears]

Regular season, perhaps. Peak LBJ went from the Boston meltdown in 2010, to the Dallas incident in 2011 and even in 2013 he looked like cowdung vs the Spurs for 5/7 of the Finals. Jordan was going ultrasound mercilessly all the way to 1993. In fact most of the time, he'd rise even higher than the expectations, which was in itself a miracle.

What happened to Jordan from '84-89?

Cowdung averaged 25/11/7 and was the best player on the floor for both teams in 2013. You guys hold LeBron to immaculate standards, it's crazy.

[-MetA4-]

That Mavs team is seriously underrated. Yes they had only one marquee player but they won just as many games as the Heat and got hot at the right time. Remember, they swept the defending champs with a still very good Kobe, and annihilated a team with Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka-- who were all very young but still damn good. Jordan lost to teams worse than that in the playoffs-- eg the '87-88 Pistons.

Yeah, Jordan lost to worse teams in the playoffs...in his 4th season in the league and only second year in the playoffs, on a team that was nowhere near ready to actually contend. LeBron lost to the Mavs in his 8th season in the league, on a team that was supposed to blow the NBA away (with two other star-or-better caliber players). One is an example of a great young player building his chops in the league with a developing team around him, the other is in example of a player already in his prime failing to win with two other established and equally experienced star players.

The point is that once Jordan hit his prime in terms of team basketball and experience, NO ONE else won. The only time they did is when he let them by walking away. He owned the entire league....like you would expect the "GOAT" to do. LeBron James even in his prime wasn't able to lock down the league...hence why he keeps needing to hop around with other cherry-picked stars. Its two completely different levels of players.

[loserX]

Yeah poor LeBron, being all business and then getting all that anger. He's basically a victim, right? And it has nothing to do with calling himself "the chosen one" (or even have it tattooed all over his back), and give himself the nick name "King James", or infamously talking about "those players below me" in a recent meeting. Just stop it.

But since you mention how dearly we will miss him, heres some of the "best of G.O.A.T" stuff, highlights of a career to remember once he is gone:

<snip>

...now bring on the "hater" , "your just obsessed" comments

Literally none of this makes LeBron a worse basketball player, and none of it refutes anything said by the people you are quoting.

"literally" all of this is the reason LeBron has brought most of the criticsm upon himself, which was the point of the comment i replied to. Literally.

The post you quoted says LeBron has been criticized since Day 1, and that stuff happened after Day 1. So no, not "literally".

And like I said, none of it makes him a worse basketball player either anyway. Seems most of it are reasons not to like him (to which you are entitled if you want), not reasons to diminish him as a player.

[JoeyLightYears]

That Mavs team is seriously underrated. Yes they had only one marquee player but they won just as many games as the Heat and got hot at the right time. Remember, they swept the defending champs with a still very good Kobe, and annihilated a team with Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka-- who were all very young but still damn good. Jordan lost to teams worse than that in the playoffs-- eg the '87-88 Pistons.

Yeah, Jordan lost to worse teams in the playoffs...in his 4th season in the league and only second year in the playoffs, on a team that was nowhere near ready to actually contend. LeBron lost to the Mavs in his 8th season in the league, on a team that was supposed to blow the NBA away (with two other star-or-better caliber players). One is an example of a great young player building his chops in the league with a developing team around him, the other is in example of a player already in his prime failing to win with two other established and equally experienced star players.

The point is that once Jordan hit his prime in terms of team basketball and experience, NO ONE else won. The only time they did is when he let them by walking away. He owned the entire league....like you would expect the "GOAT" to do. LeBron James even in his prime wasn't able to lock down the league...hence why he keeps needing to hop around with other cherry-picked stars. Its two completely different levels of players.

Weird because I see people using the 2007 Finals against LeBron, when that should be heralded as one of the most amazing accomplishments ever for a young player.

The situations aren't comparable because basketball is a team sport and the two teams were different. LeBron spent his first 7 years on a team with incompetent coaching and upper management. Jordan had Krause, a very good GM, and Collins and later PJ who is probably the greatest coach of all time. Compare the 90s Bulls to the 2000s Cavs and tell me the supporting casts are equivalent. Yet you guys make these arguments like basketball is akin to tennis or boxing or something. And if LeBron stayed on those Cavs and never won **** (which is the likely outcome), you would've railed on him for being a loser! The guy just can't do right by you.

I saw them both and it is hard for me to compare. What I can say is that Jordan was hardly without fault and he had bad games all the time, just like LeBron and every other player in NBA history.

[jerok]

No. Bron kept teaming up with players who were the alpha of their teams before playing with him. That alone is a red flag.

MJ never did that and dominated.

But longevity wise, gotta give it to Bron for his consistency.

I still think Jordan's the GOAT.
But he had plenty of help.
In hindsight, If you were to compare players Jordan played with to modern day players , you'd get something similar to this.

Jordan's Team // Lebron's Team (Pick one from the list)

Scottie Pippen // Luka, Dame, WB, Harden, AD, KD, Steph - (Top 5 - 10 Players)
Grant/Rodman // Draymond, Montresz - (Rebounder / Glue)
Toni Kukoc // Manu, Lou Will, Jamal Crawford - (6MOY)
Paxson/Kerr // Korver, Redick - (Marksmen)
BJ/Harper // George Hill, Dejounte - (Point)
Luc Longley // Spencer Hawes, Alex Len (Center)

Phil Jackson // Pops, Nurse, Spo, Stevens

I wonder what LeBron would of done if he had a squad like that.

[Meeksology]

Lebron still tryin to catch up to Kobe let alone mj.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app

[Hindenburg]

1 ring is not going to do it. 3 more rings and 3 more FMVPs then sure let's put him in the GOAT rank.

[Winsome Gerbil]

LeBron gotta be considered the GOAT for winning the title in the most messed up and unrepresentative NBA season in history?

[J___Av]

Lebron's only case for GOAT is longevity. Jordan obviously had a higher peak, and accomplished more in less time

[J___Av]

Lebron still tryin to catch up to Kobe let alone mj.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app

Dude, just stop. Lebron is not the GOAT, but there is no question he is higher up the GOAT list than Kobe

[-MetA4-]

No. Bron kept teaming up with players who were the alpha of their teams before playing with him. That alone is a red flag.

MJ never did that and dominated.

But longevity wise, gotta give it to Bron for his consistency.

I still think Jordan's the GOAT.
But he had plenty of help.
In hindsight, If you were to compare players Jordan played with to modern day players , you'd get something similar to this.

Jordan's Team // Lebron's Team (Pick one from the list)

Scottie Pippen // Luka, Dame, WB, Harden, AD, KD, Steph - (Top 5 - 10 Players)
Grant/Rodman // Draymond, Montresz - (Rebounder / Glue)
Toni Kukoc // Manu, Lou Will, Jamal Crawford - (6MOY)
Paxson/Kerr // Korver, Redick - (Marksmen)
BJ/Harper // George Hill, Dejounte - (Point)
Luc Longley // Spencer Hawes, Alex Len (Center)

Phil Jackson // Pops, Nurse, Spo, Stevens

The vast majority of those players you just named were molded into the players they became in large part to Jordan himself. Obviously Phil Jackson was instrumental here as well (and this is one of the big actual advantages Jordan had over LeBron), but the entire "aura" of those Bulls teams revolved around the fact that no one wanted to win at any cost more than Jordan, and he PUNISHED his teammates until they grew into the players they became. Scottie Pippen has basically admitted that he wouldn't be "Scottie Pippen" without Jordan pressing him to develop.

This is vastly different from LeBron failing to do anything similar in Cleveland and then jumping ship to team up with other star players who were already established stars unreliant to anything LeBron did while playing with them.