Raptors say Vuc it to 2021 FA (w/ Phoenix, Orlando)

Godaddycurse · Post #1 » by **Godaddycurse** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:29 am

Toronto trade: Kyle Lowry, Johnson, McCaw (Outgoing 37.8M)
Toronto receive: Vucevic, Rubio (Incoming 43M)

Phoenix trade: Kelly Oubre, Rubio (Outgoing 31.4M)
Phoenix receives: Kyle Lowry (Incoming 30M)

Orlando trade: Vucevic (Outgoing 26M)
Orlando receives: Oubre, Johnson, McCaw (Incoming 22M)

Why for Orlando: get a good young wing to pair w/ gordon. If it doesn't work out still clear vuc's money from the cap
Why for Phoenix: get a PG upgrade and needed veteran savvy for playoff push, also free up 2021 space
Why for Toronto: Word on the street is Gasol is thinking of going back to Europe so we will have a pretty big hole at the 5. I'm skeptical that Giannis will join us so i rather we retool to make another win now push. Vuc's weakness will be more than covered up by siakam and OG. i think they have potential to form a deadly front court.

Vuc/Ibaka
Siakam/Boucher
OG/TDII
Powell/Thomas
FVV/Rubio

Bamba/Birch
Gordon/Aminu
Oubre/Okeke
Fournier/Ross
Fultz

Ayton/Kaminsky
Johnson/Saric
Bridges
Booker/10th pick
Lowry/payne

pr0gr4m · Post #2 » by **pr0gr4m** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:51 am

Godaddycurse wrote:Toronto trade: Kyle Lowry, Johnson, McCaw (Outgoing 37.8M)
Toronto receive: Vucevic, Rubio (Incoming 43M)

Phoenix trade: Kelly Oubre, Rubio (Outgoing 31.4M)
Phoenix receives: Kyle Lowry (Incoming 30M)

Orlando trade: Vucevic (Outgoing 26M)
Orlando receives: Oubre, Johnson, McCaw (Incoming 22M)

Why for Orlando: get a good young wing to pair w/ gordon. If it doesn't work out still clear vuc's money from the cap
Why for Phoenix: get a PG upgrade and needed veteran savvy for playoff push, also free up 2021 space
Why for Toronto: Word on the street is Gasol is thinking of going back to Europe so we will have a pretty big hole at the 5. I'm skeptical that Giannis will join us so i rather we retool to make another win now push. Vuc's weakness will be more than covered up by siakam and OG. i think they have potential to form a deadly front court.

Vuc/Ibaka
Siakam/Boucher
OG/TDII
Powell/Thomas
FVV/Rubio

Bamba/Birch
Gordon/Aminu
Oubre/Okeke
Fournier/Ross
Fultz

Ayton/Kaminsky
Johnson/Saric
Bridges
Booker/10th pick
Lowry/payne

Vuc isn't a playoff performer and he's already in his prime. I would pass as if the Raptors became relient on him for offense it would lead to a short run with Giannis, Davis, and others on the path.

The Celtics and Rockets proved this year that 1 big man is enough to get by in today's NBA. I would rather look to add Bjelica or a stretch 4 to replace Gasol and re-sign Ibaka to the starter for at least one more season.

Skybox · Post #3 » by **Skybox** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:49 am

I would LOVE to see Vuc get a shot to play for a creative offensive coach like Nurse. He has ALL of the tools on offense...he’s a willing and skilled passer who would thrive on a team with great movement and shooting. He’s elite in the post if teams can’t clog the paint (like they can vs ORL). He practically dismantled MIL in the playoffs despite his team being badly outclassed, so that narrative is retired too. Having said that, I’d want more of a return for ORL...even if just a late first due to Oubre’s uncertainty to heal and then re-sign.

europrospect93 · Post #4 » by **europrospect93** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:06 pm

I think Vucevic, with all his flaws, is still underrated. I would love to see him in Toronto and I would 100% pull a trigger on this deal.

I don't hate it for PHO also, Lowry is a proven player and they upgrade at pg (although he doesn't really fit the timeline, they need that push to keep & develop their core).

I think ORL might be looking for a better haul though. Could it be rearranged that they: a) get a 1st from Tor or b)get Rubio while they send some dead money to Raps?

EDIT:

Toronto trade: Kyle Lowry, McCaw
Toronto receive: Vucevic, Aminu

Phoenix trade: Kelly Oubre, Rubio
Phoenix receives: Kyle Lowry, McCaw

Orlando trade: Vucevic, Aminu
Orlando receives: Oubre, Rubio

Something like this maybe? Toronto adds a wing to the rotation that is not needed in ORL, while Magic gets an upgrade at pg.

Godaddycurse · Post #5 » by **Godaddycurse** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:35 pm

Skybox wrote:I would LOVE to see Vuc get a shot to play for a creative offensive coach like Nurse. He has ALL of the tools on offense...he’s a willing and skilled passer who would thrive on a team with great movement and shooting. He’s elite in the post if teams can’t clog the paint (like they can vs ORL). He practically dismantled MIL in the playoffs despite his team being badly outclassed, so that narrative is retired too. Having said that, I’d want more of a return for ORL...even if just a late first due to Oubre’s uncertainty to heal and then re-sign.

If you prefer to have a pick can probably reroute oubre for expirings and a pick with portland/minny/dallas. I dont mind adding in Toronto 1st with a second rd pk or 2 coming back but others may mind..

Godaddycurse · Post #6 » by **Godaddycurse** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:06 pm

europrospect93 wrote:I think Vucevic, with all his flaws, is still underrated. I would love to see him in Toronto and I would 100% pull a trigger on this deal.

I don't hate it for PHO also, Lowry is a proven player and they upgrade at pg (although he doesn't really fit the timeline, they need that push to keep & develop their core).

I think ORL might be looking for a better haul though. Could it be rearranged that they: a) get a 1st from Tor or b)get Rubio while they send some dead money to Raps?

EDIT:

Toronto trade: Kyle Lowry, McCaw
Toronto receive: Vucevic, Aminu

Phoenix trade: Kelly Oubre, Rubio
Phoenix receives: Kyle Lowry, McCaw

Orlando trade: Vucevic, Aminu
Orlando receives: Oubre, Rubio

Something like this maybe? Toronto adds a wing to the rotation that is not needed in ORL, while Magic gets an upgrade at pg.

From what i understand vuc is neutral to slight positive trade value wise, so i think oubre who can be swapped for expiring and a pick is about the right value. Maybe can add a toronto 1st for second(s) swap too.

tiderulz · Post #7 » by **tiderulz** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:29 pm

pr0gr4m wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:Toronto trade: Kyle Lowry, Johnson, McCaw (Outgoing 37.8M)
Toronto receive: Vucevic, Rubio (Incoming 43M)

Phoenix trade: Kelly Oubre, Rubio (Outgoing 31.4M)
Phoenix receives: Kyle Lowry (Incoming 30M)

Orlando trade: Vucevic (Outgoing 26M)
Orlando receives: Oubre, Johnson, McCaw (Incoming 22M)

Why for Orlando: get a good young wing to pair w/ gordon. If it doesn't work out still clear vuc's money from the cap
Why for Phoenix: get a PG upgrade and needed veteran savvy for playoff push, also free up 2021 space
Why for Toronto: Word on the street is Gasol is thinking of going back to Europe so we will have a pretty big hole at the 5. I'm skeptical that Giannis will join us so i rather we retool to make another win now push. Vuc's weakness will be more than covered up by siakam and OG. i think they have potential to form a deadly front court.

Vuc/Ibaka
Siakam/Boucher
OG/TDII
Powell/Thomas
FVV/Rubio

Bamba/Birch
Gordon/Aminu
Oubre/Okeke
Fournier/Ross
Fultz

Ayton/Kaminsky
Johnson/Saric
Bridges
Booker/10th pick
Lowry/payne

Vuc isn't a playoff performer and he's already in his prime. I would pass as if the Raptors became relient on him for offense it would lead to a short run with Giannis, Davis, and others on the path.

The Celtics and Rockets proved this year that 1 big man is enough to get by in today's NBA. I would rather look to add Bjelica or a stretch 4 to replace Gasol and re-sign Ibaka to the starter for at least one more season.

Vuc just put up 28/11/4 apg vs Milwaukee and Giannis. how much more performance do you need?

VDT · Post #8 » by **VDT** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:41 pm

I dont see it for Toronto and Phoenix.

No one wants Vucevic (including Orlando) and Lowry doesnt make sense for an up an coming team like the Suns. I think Rubio has been good for the Suns and i dont see a reason to move him for one year of a 34 year old player.

Magic_Johnny12 · Post #9 » by **Magic_Johnny12** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:55 pm

VDT wrote:I dont see it for Toronto and Phoenix.

No one wants Vucevic (including Orlando) and Lowry doesnt make sense for an up an coming team like the Suns. I think Rubio has been good for the Suns and i dont see a reason to move him for one year of a 34 year old player.

El oh el

jimmy keys · Post #10 » by **jimmy keys** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:01 pm

Vuc no.

VDT · Post #11 » by **VDT** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:05 pm

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
VDT wrote:I dont see it for Toronto and Phoenix.

No one wants Vucevic (including Orlando) and Lowry doesnt make sense for an up an coming team like the Suns. I think Rubio has been good for the Suns and i dont see a reason to move him for one year of a 34 year old player.

El oh el

I am talking about the fans not the FO.

The FO might like him because they can pretend that they are not a terrible team and keep their jobs more.

Meanwhile Vucevic is 7 years on the Magic as the top guy and the team is going nowhere, finishing barely above teams that are tanking.

The Magic desperately need to move their veterans and tank to acquire some talent.

Post #12 » by **Texas Chuck** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:13 pm

Interesting deal. Could not love it more for the Suns. Lowry is the perfect guy to carry the young core into the playoffs and show them how to compete hard every night. For the Magic if I'm dealing Vuc, I'd probably try and flip Oubre to a 4th team for a bad contract and a pick and just reset towards the future. For the Raps I don't like it. Feel like they sacrifice value here.

Godaddycurse · Post #13 » by **Godaddycurse** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:27 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Interesting deal. Could not love it more for the Suns. Lowry is the perfect guy to carry the young core into the playoffs and show them how to compete hard every night. For the Magic if I'm dealing Vuc, I'd probably try and flip Oubre to a 4th team for a bad contract and a pick and just reset towards the future. For the Raps I don't like it. Feel like they sacrifice value here.

I think short term it does feel that way for the raptors but if we look beyond 2020, we get to keep Ibaka long term and get a secondary star and good role player in vuc and rubio on relatively short term deals that we normally wouldnt be able to get on FA (we would have to overpay in terms and years.. exhibit a) Tobias Harris). I'm more skeptical than others on our chances in FA, so in my mind it becomes the following:

2020 Raptors without this trade - Ibaka (if he takes a 1 yr deal)/Siakam/OG/FVV/Kyle + Powell, Boucher, TDII for bench
2021 Raptors without this trade and no Giannis - <insert overpaid starter>/Siakam/OG/Powell/FVV

2020 & 2021 Raptors w/ this trade: Vuc/Siakam/OG/Powell/FVV + Ibaka, Boucher, TDII, Rubio

I think the main reason we flamed out this playoffs was the lack of scoring (not just siakam but also from the 5 spot when gasol was in, which forced us to go small). I also think Vuc will open up more space and opportunities for Siakam and help him to further grow offensively.

Topofthekey · Post #14 » by **Topofthekey** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:29 pm

Magic probably needs slightly more value, though it's close

A little bit too all in for Suns, so they'll probably decline

pr0gr4m · Post #15 » by **pr0gr4m** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:47 pm

tiderulz wrote:
pr0gr4m wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:Toronto trade: Kyle Lowry, Johnson, McCaw (Outgoing 37.8M)
Toronto receive: Vucevic, Rubio (Incoming 43M)

Phoenix trade: Kelly Oubre, Rubio (Outgoing 31.4M)
Phoenix receives: Kyle Lowry (Incoming 30M)

Orlando trade: Vucevic (Outgoing 26M)
Orlando receives: Oubre, Johnson, McCaw (Incoming 22M)

Why for Orlando: get a good young wing to pair w/ gordon. If it doesn't work out still clear vuc's money from the cap
Why for Phoenix: get a PG upgrade and needed veteran savvy for playoff push, also free up 2021 space
Why for Toronto: Word on the street is Gasol is thinking of going back to Europe so we will have a pretty big hole at the 5. I'm skeptical that Giannis will join us so i rather we retool to make another win now push. Vuc's weakness will be more than covered up by siakam and OG. i think they have potential to form a deadly front court.

Vuc/Ibaka
Siakam/Boucher
OG/TDII
Powell/Thomas
FVV/Rubio

Bamba/Birch
Gordon/Aminu
Oubre/Okeke
Fournier/Ross
Fultz

Ayton/Kaminsky
Johnson/Saric
Bridges
Booker/10th pick
Lowry/payne

Vuc isn't a playoff performer and he's already in his prime. I would pass as if the Raptors became relient on him for offense it would lead to a short run with Giannis, Davis, and others on the path.

The Celtics and Rockets proved this year that 1 big man is enough to get by in today's NBA. I would rather look to add Bjelica or a stretch 4 to replace Gasol and re-sign Ibaka to the starter for at least one more season.

Vuc just put up 28/11/4 apg vs Milwaukee and Giannis. how much more performance do you need?

Small sample size.

Skybox · Post #16 » by **Skybox** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:27 pm

pr0gr4m wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
pr0gr4m wrote:Vuc isn't a playoff performer and he's already in his prime. I would pass as if the Raptors became relient on him for offense it would lead to a short run with Giannis, Davis, and others on the path.

The Celtics and Rockets proved this year that 1 big man is enough to get by in today's NBA. I would rather look to add Bjelica or a stretch 4 to replace Gasol and re-sign Ibaka to the starter for at least one more season.

Vuc just put up 28/11/4 apg vs Milwaukee and Giannis. how much more performance do you need?

Small sample size.

He doesn't have a lot of playoff stats because he's been stuck on my beloved ORL treadmill. His career stats are rock solid. One of the steadiest, most reliable players in the league. 18/10/3 over the last 6 seasons, but he's one of those "every night" guys. If he wasn't carrying the team, he'd be very hard to critique.Fundamentally sound, scores inside and out, passes, rebounds at an elite level, If he's the third or even second-best guy on the team, you're in very good shape. He's always been the best guy in ORL and it's unfair to him. IMO, everyone else on the team would be better suited to a fast-paced, wing driven system...trade them all or him. Honestly, he gets a lot of flak in ORL, I'd like to see him get a shot with a contender. Marc Gasol neutralized him but can't think of anyone big and smart enough to slow him down in single coverage inside.

Godaddycurse · Post #17 » by **Godaddycurse** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:38 pm

Skybox wrote:
pr0gr4m wrote:
tiderulz wrote:Vuc just put up 28/11/4 apg vs Milwaukee and Giannis. how much more performance do you need?

Small sample size.

He doesn't have a lot of playoff stats because he's been stuck on my beloved ORL treadmill. His career stats are rock solid. One of the steadiest, most reliable players in the league. 18/10/3 over the last 6 seasons, but he's one of those "every night" guys. If he wasn't carrying the team, he'd be very hard to critique.Fundamentally sound, scores inside and out, passes, rebounds at an elite level, If he's the third or even second-best guy on the team, you're in very good shape. He's always been the best guy in ORL and it's unfair to him. IMO, everyone else on the team would be better suited to a fast-paced, wing driven system...trade them all or him. Honestly, he gets a lot of flak in ORL, I'd like to see him get a shot with a contender. Marc Gasol neutralized him but can't think of anyone big and smart enough to slow him down in single coverage inside.

Yea I really like his fit with siakam, OG, Powell and FVV. I think that lineup with Vuc can be special.

tiderulz · Post #18 » by **tiderulz** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:38 pm

pr0gr4m wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
pr0gr4m wrote:Vuc isn't a playoff performer and he's already in his prime. I would pass as if the Raptors became relient on him for offense it would lead to a short run with Giannis, Davis, and others on the path.

The Celtics and Rockets proved this year that 1 big man is enough to get by in today's NBA. I would rather look to add Bjelica or a stretch 4 to replace Gasol and re-sign Ibaka to the starter for at least one more season.

Vuc just put up 28/11/4 apg vs Milwaukee and Giannis. how much more performance do you need?

Small sample size.

his playoffs is a small sample size. only really been twice

europrospect93 · Post #19 » by **europrospect93** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:59 pm

VDT wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
VDT wrote:I dont see it for Toronto and Phoenix.

No one wants Vucevic (including Orlando) and Lowry doesnt make sense for an up an coming team like the Suns. I think Rubio has been good for the Suns and i dont see a reason to move him for one year of a 34 year old player.

El oh el

I am talking about the fans not the FO.

The FO might like him because they can pretend that they are not a terrible team and keep their jobs more.

Meanwhile Vucevic is 7 years on the Magic as the top guy and the team is going nowhere, finishing barely above teams that are tanking.

The Magic desperately need to move their veterans and tank to acquire some talent.

Fans? You mean people on realgm?

Your post makes zero sense, if he is your only consistent offensive option you're getting nowhere that's for sure but he can be a major contributor on a good, well-rounded team like Raptors. He's been putting good numbers on a decent efficiency for years now and developed a good outside shot on top of that. Yeah there are some issues surrounding his game but that's why he's not getting traded for top pick or high end prospect.

Skybox · Post #20 » by **Skybox** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:11 pm

tiderulz wrote:
pr0gr4m wrote:
tiderulz wrote:Vuc just put up 28/11/4 apg vs Milwaukee and Giannis. how much more performance do you need?

Small sample size.

his playoffs is a small sample size. only really been twice

Both times as the far and away best player on the 8th seed versus the top team in the East. Marc Gasol and lots of Toronto grabby wings gobbled him up last year. This year, with a weaker supporting cast, he pounded the DPOY and the top team in the NBA regular season (although they lost the series-as expected)...again, the playoff fail narrative is history.