5 Ways to Improve the Offense

[Wannabe MEP]

We had no ball movement in our offence at all against Boston, everything was ISO for various players. We need to get back to a better flow on offence and more ball movement and be a run and gun team, especially with the way Siakam plays

Celtics went back to defend the transition quickly, where there are way less run and gun opportunities, particularly during playoffs. I think it is best to look at half court offense, as I feel this is a good development year for Siakam and OG.

Agree, Celtics transition defense had a major impact. Also, their switching hurt our ball movement and sometimes forced iso, and they don't have the slow behemoths that our guards love to punish.

[Jadoogar]

OG and Siakam should be working on their handle all off season. We need more guys who can create their own shot, right now it's only Lowry and maybe FVV.

[Wannabe MEP]

I think the easiest way is give OG more opportunities to experiment and develop his offensive game in the regular season. The guy has shown he is efficient in his limited role offensively, so lets see what he can do in an expanded role.

Ok, fair. Add OG to my list. So...

• Siakam
• Norm
• Davis
• OG

I think OG showed a lot of improvement on offense, and there's hope he can do more. But didn't we just go through this with Siakam? How does OG now compare to Siakam a year ago? It's not an easy transition from role player to offensive fulcrum.

But I can embrace the idea that it's not about one guy becoming the man. If, say, three guys make a jump and we see some movement on #5 (smaller/more spread), that might be enough to change the dynamic in a series like this.

[nabbs]

I think one obvious way without roster changes is to just follow Miami's offensive model. We have the cutters to have that style of offense

[phanman]

I think the easiest way is give OG more opportunities to experiment and develop his offensive game in the regular season. The guy has shown he is efficient in his limited role offensively, so lets see what he can do in an expanded role.

Ok, fair. Add OG to my list. So...

• Siakam
• Norm
• Davis
• OG

I think OG showed a lot of improvement on offense, and there's hope he can do more. But didn't we just go through this with Siakam? How does OG now compare to Siakam a year ago? It's not an easy transition from role player to offensive fulcrum.

But I can embrace the idea that it's not about one guy becoming the man. If, say, three guys make a jump and we see some movement on #5 (smaller/more spread), that might be enough to change the dynamic in a series like this.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Nobody is advocating for OG to become THE guy, would just like to see an uptick in the 8fga he had last season. Another possibility would be to pull him early and give him those RHJ possessions we had in the bubble where we made him the primary ball handler when Freddy or Lowry weren't on the court.

OG is already a much better shooter than Pascal but you'd just like to see the guy play with a higher sense of urgency. Him and Siakam have two drastically different playing styles, with a big reason for Pascal's MIP year was his relentless energy on both ends of the floor.

[Wannabe MEP]

I think one obvious way without roster changes is to just follow Miami's offensive model.

Part of that is their decision to go small. Adebayo is basically the same size as Siakam, so this would be essentially like the Raptors starting Siakam at the 5. Spoelstra learned that lesson back in 2012 with Bosh.

[Wannabe MEP]

I think one obvious way without roster changes is to just follow Miami's offensive model.

Ok, so I'm really liking the Miami idea. Unlike the other conference finalists, we can reasonably approximate their personnel (harder to replicate LeBron-Davis, Murray-Jokic, etc.). Looking at their most used playoff units:

• Dragic-Butler-Robinson-Crowder-Adebayo
• Dragic-Herro-Butler-Crowder-Adebayo

Can't the current roster approximate these lineups? OG-Siakam frontcourt vs Crowder-Adebayo => feels like a wash at worst. I think they have a fair bit more length at the 1-3, but we can pretty much match their talent, shooting, etc.

Mapping their top 8 by playoff minutes:

1. Adebayo => Siakam
2. Butler => Lowry
3. Dragic => Powell
4. Herro => Davis
5. Crowder => OG
6. Robinson => Thomas
7. Iguodala => ?? (free agent? pick?)
8. Olynyk => Ibaka

Some assumptions there: resign Ibaka but not FVV or Gasol, Nurse begins to trust Davis and Thomas a lot more, and Nurse becomes comfortable with a smaller frontcourt.

If those things happen, the biggest need becomes wing size -- an Iguodala type, but that player might be higher up the rotation list for the Raptors.

[gerrit4]

My guess is that Masai/Bobby are going bargain hunting. They'll look for good players on small deals, guys available in trades for below market value, ways to obtain picks. I think the market will dictate the direction of the team, as it has in the past. If someone offers an FRP for Norm, maybe we go that way. If we can obtain a player of Norm's talent level for our FRP? Maybe we go that way. As long as we're getting value with a vision in mind, I think we'll be fine.

[Indeed]

I think the easiest way is give OG more opportunities to experiment and develop his offensive game in the regular season. The guy has shown he is efficient in his limited role offensively, so lets see what he can do in an expanded role.

Ok, fair. Add OG to my list. So...

• Siakam
• Norm
• Davis
• OG

I think OG showed a lot of improvement on offense, and there's hope he can do more. But didn't we just go through this with Siakam? How does OG now compare to Siakam a year ago? It's not an easy transition from role player to offensive fulcrum.

But I can embrace the idea that it's not about one guy becoming the man. If, say, three guys make a jump and we see some movement on #5 (smaller/more spread), that might be enough to change the dynamic in a series like this.

OG is 22, same age as Davis, I believe.
Siakam is 25, Tatum is 21.

Siakam is better than DeRozan at the same age.

As for comparison between OG and Siakam. OG is an elite defender with 3 point shooting, nothing more. Siakam is an elite transition scorer with above average defense. Really apple and orange, as they impact on different things, excel on different things.

[Indeed]

I think one obvious way without roster changes is to just follow Miami's offensive model.

Ok, so I'm really liking the Miami idea. Unlike the other conference finalists, we can reasonably approximate their personnel (harder to replicate LeBron-Davis, Murray-Jokic, etc.). Looking at their most used playoff units:

• Dragic-Butler-Robinson-Crowder-Adebayo
• Dragic-Herro-Butler-Crowder-Adebayo

Can't the current roster approximate these lineups? OG-Siakam frontcourt vs Crowder-Adebayo => feels like a wash at worst. I think they have a fair bit more length at the 1-3, but we can pretty much match their talent, shooting, etc.

Mapping their top 8 by playoff minutes:

1. Adebayo => Siakam
2. Butler => Lowry
3. Dragic => Powell
4. Herro => Davis
5. Crowder => OG
6. Robinson => Thomas
7. Iguodala => ?? (free agent? pick?)
8. Olynyk => Ibaka

Some assumptions there: resign Ibaka but not FVV or Gasol, Nurse begins to trust Davis and Thomas a lot more, and Nurse becomes comfortable with a smaller frontcourt.

If those things happen, the biggest need becomes wing size -- an Iguodala type, but that player might be higher up the rotation list for the Raptors.

Don't you want to wait until the series is over before you comment on the successful rate of each team?
Would you consider the Bucks model before the bubble? And do you think there are other factors that impact the game (such as coach or referee)?

[Wannabe MEP]

Don't you want to wait until the series is over before you comment on the successful rate of each team?

Doesn't matter. The point of this thread is that the Raptors offense was garbage against the Celtics. We're just exploring ideas here.

But based on the evidence we have...Miami had a dramatically better offensive showing (113.0 OffRtg) against a superior defense (Bucks) as the heavy underdog than the Raptors did against the Celtics (100.3 OffRtg). That's relevant, whether or not they beat the Celtics. And in their one game against the Celtics so far, they had a dramatically better offensive rating than the Raptors had in any of the 8 games they played against the Celtics in the bubble.

Would you consider the Bucks model before the bubble?

I wouldn't have asked the question. The question before the playoffs was, "Is the Raptors offense good enough for a deep run?" The answer was, "NO!!!!!" Now the question is, "How can Raptors improve the offense?" And if a superstar isn't available, and we're not blowing it up...

And do you think there are other factors that impact the game (such as coach or referee)?

Coach? I'm specifically talking about that. Referee? Raptors don't have any control over the refereeing. Not sure why you would bring that up.

[Wannabe MEP]

Don't you want to wait until the series is over before you comment on the successful rate of each team?

Doesn't matter. The point of this thread is that the Raptors offense was garbage against the Celtics. We're just exploring ideas here.

But based on the evidence we have...Miami had a dramatically better offensive showing (113.0 OffRtg) against a superior defense (Bucks) as the heavy underdog than the Raptors did against the Celtics (100.3 OffRtg). That's relevant, whether or not they beat the Celtics. And in their one game against the Celtics so far, they had a dramatically better offensive rating than the Raptors had in any of the 8 games they played against the Celtics in the bubble.

So that's two games. Heat have played two games against the Celtics and both of them were better OffRtg than any of the eight Raptors games against the Celtics in the bubble.

[mcgrady_1]

What was Colangelo's thing again? Organic growth or something?

Next year, I would like to see FVV with a floater along with Siakam & OG with improved handles and footwork. Norm, Davis, Boucher and Thomas need more time on the floor which I think they'll get.

[UneducatedFan86]

Our offense was much better in the regular season. We just want totally away from it in the playoffs. Even in the Brooklyn series, we went to this strange shortened-bench, ISO offense which didn't play to our strengths at all. It was stupid and dumbfounding. Way too much hero ball and we tried to force too much. We played like we had a top-3 player on the team and didn't need our bench and depth, which is totally not the case.

Like I said in another thread, Davis and Thomas were pretty big for us in the regular season. They had shown the ability to spread the floor, were great off the ball (which we lacked), and could even handle the ball. I am not saying they would've won us the series, but the Celtics just played a lot of man-to-man and let us shoot contested 3s. They basically only doubled Pascal in the paint because of his inability to pass out of the double or protect the ball. We could've have used the extra motion off the ball to get people open or have easy cuts to the basket - much like the Celtics did to us.

So the 5 ways to improve our offense, imo:
1. Have more motion in our offense (on and off the ball)
2. Trust our bench
3. Don't settle for contested 3s or simple post-ups that let teams rest on the defensive end.
4. Until we get another Top-5 player, don't go away from what was working in the regular season.
5. Get a top-5 player.

[Raptorfan2012]

Regular season is just different than the playoffs. Run and gun us almost always taken away. We need penetraters like Butler who can just get into the paint at will. It may sound strange, but TD is one guy that has that mixture of speed, ball handle, and strength to do that. He just need more experience in reading defences and maybe a pull up mid range. I think thats what makes him an interesting prospect.

[UneducatedFan86]

Regular season is just different than the playoffs. Run and gun us almost always taken away. We need penetraters like Butler who can just get into the paint at will. It may sound strange, but TD is one guy that has that mixture of speed, ball handle, and strength to do that. He just need more experience in reading defences and maybe a pull up mid range. I think thats what makes him an interesting prospect.

Totally agree with you on Davis and it is harder to play up-tempo.

My issue isn't so much the lack of fastbreaks (I knew they would be limited), but the fact that we had no motion in our actual half-court sets. It was basically Gasol/Ibaka setting up at the top of the key for screens/top of the key 3s. OG setting up in the corner and Pascal either setting up in the corner or going into the post for a post-up. Then Lowry and/or Fred looking to either take their man 1-on-1 or shoot the 3. It became super predictable and easy to defend.

Pascal struggled all series long because he wasn't ever put in a position to succeed. The Celtics wanted us to use him the post because it was easy to defend. Instead of posting him up, we should have had him flexing off screens and driving to the basket in ways that allowed him to only take one or two dribbles (less chance to cough it up) and be at the rim for layups. I think it would've been much better than force-feeding him in the way we did.

Look at what the Celtics did to us (drive and kick to an open shooter or for a dunk) or what the Nuggets did to the Clippers (back cuts and using the screens for allowing drives to the basket). It all starts with making the defense rotate and move. Something we failed at. Which makes no sense. And as you said, Davis (and I'd say, Thomas, too) showed enough to have more playing time and we could've used the off-the-ball movement.

[nabbs]

I think one obvious way without roster changes is to just follow Miami's offensive model.

Ok, so I'm really liking the Miami idea. Unlike the other conference finalists, we can reasonably approximate their personnel (harder to replicate LeBron-Davis, Murray-Jokic, etc.). Looking at their most used playoff units:

• Dragic-Butler-Robinson-Crowder-Adebayo
• Dragic-Herro-Butler-Crowder-Adebayo

Can't the current roster approximate these lineups? OG-Siakam frontcourt vs Crowder-Adebayo => feels like a wash at worst. I think they have a fair bit more length at the 1-3, but we can pretty much match their talent, shooting, etc.

Mapping their top 8 by playoff minutes:

1. Adebayo => Siakam
2. Butler => Lowry
3. Dragic => Powell
4. Herro => Davis
5. Crowder => OG
6. Robinson => Thomas
7. Iguodala => ?? (free agent? pick?)
8. Olynyk => Ibaka

Some assumptions there: resign Ibaka but not FVV or Gasol, Nurse begins to trust Davis and Thomas a lot more, and Nurse becomes comfortable with a smaller frontcourt.

If those things happen, the biggest need becomes wing size -- an Iguodala type, but that player might be higher up the rotation list for the Raptors.

Don't you want to wait until the series is over before you comment on the successful rate of each team?
Would you consider the Bucks model before the bubble? And do you think there are other factors that impact the game (such as coach or referee)?

I wouldn’t consider their model at all because we don’t have the personnel to run it. On the other hand we have instinctual cutters and off ball movement guys that would thrive in a offense that’s predicated on back door cuts, slips, split cuts, etc. it’s what makes Miami hard to defend.

I hope the offense gets a little revamped or we bring in Chris Finch who Nurse initially wanted as an assistant.

[Seasontickets]

Raptors need a bucket getter FROM one of their young players.

This can be: Powell, OG or Siakam - hell is can be Terrence Davis.

When the Raptors absolutely needed a bucket - the only player who could do it this year was Lowry.

Last year we had Kawhi, Lowry and Siakam all able but also be decoys.

I don't care if it's from 2/3 or a set play. When games are tight, you need to make buckets against tough defenses. Watching Butler and Dragic - yes Miami has good defense but they can also put the ball in the net when it matters.

[Prestige]

The team just doesn’t have the personnel. Who are the playmakers? Lowry/FVV/Norm/TD. That’s it.

We don’t have any tall wingmen/forwards that can create. We don’t have any big men we can throw the ball to to get a bucket down low or who can attract doubles.
All we have are short guards that drive and dish. It’s a miracle we made it this far.

Ujiri needs to do better in terms of making the team more complete. The two PG backcourt in particular is finished. Siakam as a playmaker is finished. Gasol as a playmaker is finished. We need alternatives going into next season or this team will start to slide down the rankings into obscurity.

[TorontoRapsFan]

Resign Ibaka and FVV. Run it back, kind of, and if we're not top 5 in the NBA then see if trades are available for any of our older players around the deadline. Younger guys get more development in a semi winning mold and we switch out some of our older assets hoping to keep the gap between rebuild years and contention down. If no one shows serious promise after next year then we blow it up, if we can't swing for Giannis.

So I guess improving offense will count on OG, and Davis becoming better contributers.