2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want???

[DOT]

I personally think Obi is the second best big after Wiseman. He is going to be really good imo.

I think the thing to worry about with him is, how much of his game is just him being that much older and more physically developed than the rest of the college guys?

Like, he was born the day after Tatum. It's not old, and he can still grow a lot, but relative to a lot of guys who play in college, it is pretty old.

His upside isn't going to be as high because of that. Everyone knows I don't like to draft older players. But it also doesn't mean he can't be a solid pick. Brandon Clarke was all-rookie 1st team and he turns 24 tomorrow and was even older than toppin when drafted

Yeah, I think he can be pretty good

But you compare him to someone like Okongwu, they have similar games on offense, and while Toppin is more polished, he's almost 3 years older. Plus Okongwu is already a good defensive player while Toppin isn't. Or like, get Achiuwa later or Jalen Smith or something. Lots of forward depth who aren't as good as Toppin offensively but would do most of what he does while being better on defense

Actually, if we do go for CP3, Toppin could probably be really good for us. I just think we need a PG more than anything, and a big will just struggle here cause we don't really have playmakers.

[Fat]

I personally think Obi is the second best big after Wiseman. He is going to be really good imo.

I think the thing to worry about with him is, how much of his game is just him being that much older and more physically developed than the rest of the college guys?

Like, he was born the day after Tatum. It's not old, and he can still grow a lot, but relative to a lot of guys who play in college, it is pretty old.

That’s a fair point. He has shown some skills that doesn’t rely on physical attributes though. Like shooting and handling the ball. I think just those 2 skills alone are pretty valuable, especially as a big man.

70% from the free throw line his shooting isn’t legit

[8516knicks]

Interesting comparing this and the other draft poll. Hayes the clear winner (#2 and #1 with 0 no votes) and Cole Anthony the top disputed (#3 and #3 also on the avoid poll). Curious how many would give Ball or Wiseman an avoid vote here?

[3toheadmelo]

I think the thing to worry about with him is, how much of his game is just him being that much older and more physically developed than the rest of the college guys?

Like, he was born the day after Tatum. It's not old, and he can still grow a lot, but relative to a lot of guys who play in college, it is pretty old.

That’s a fair point. He has shown some skills that doesn’t rely on physical attributes though. Like shooting and handling the ball. I think just those 2 skills alone are pretty valuable, especially as a big man.

70% from the free throw line his shooting isn’t legit

Lol dont bring me into the beef you got with NoDope

[robillionaire]

I think the thing to worry about with him is, how much of his game is just him being that much older and more physically developed than the rest of the college guys?

Like, he was born the day after Tatum. It's not old, and he can still grow a lot, but relative to a lot of guys who play in college, it is pretty old.

That’s a fair point. He has shown some skills that doesn’t rely on physical attributes though. Like shooting and handling the ball. I think just those 2 skills alone are pretty valuable, especially as a big man.

70% from the free throw line his shooting isn’t legit

you're saying this sarcastically but it would be totally fair to not buy into his 39% from 3 when he only took 2.6 3s a game and shot 70% from the line the projection based on that is 34%. Not terrible for a big but not elite like 39% is

[moocow007]

If I was picking top 4 I wouldn't pick Obi but at 8 in this draft I wouldn't complain

Yeah that's the thing to. Just because someone isn't worth drafting at 4 doesn't mean he isn't worth drafting at 8. And believe me I'm hardly a Obi fan and see him as a Randle type impact guy in the NBA. At 4, no thanks. But at 8? He shouldn't be the guy with the most "no" votes on this list. At 4 you are looking at talent and impact to winning. At 8? Talent may just be what you want and Toppin is more talented than the majority of the guys on the list.

[Fat]

That’s a fair point. He has shown some skills that doesn’t rely on physical attributes though. Like shooting and handling the ball. I think just those 2 skills alone are pretty valuable, especially as a big man.

70% from the free throw line his shooting isn’t legit

Lol dont bring me into the beef you got with NoDope

[NoDopeOnSundays]

That’s a fair point. He has shown some skills that doesn’t rely on physical attributes though. Like shooting and handling the ball. I think just those 2 skills alone are pretty valuable, especially as a big man.

70% from the free throw line his shooting isn’t legit

Lol dont bring me into the beef you got with NoDope

Angry missed the "especially as a big man" part


I'd be sending subs too if I was defending a "shooter" who was under 75% from the line too.

[Dantares]

A bust is a bust and Obi has so many red flags. I don't care if Obi falls to 8 I still don't want him. Only reason to draft him is to trade down and get someone else.

[moocow007]

For the Celtics...

Doesnt make sense for Ball when they have all those guys that need to touch the ball and create their own shots. I can see the Celtics trying to trade up to draft someone like Onyeka Okongwu. He would be the perfect fit with that team and potentially take them up a whole other level. To which, the Celtics do have the 14th overall pick, the 30th pick along with quite a few young guys drafted in the 1st round of previous drafts (Romeo Langford, Robert Williams, etc) that they could trade to move up to the range that Okongwu will likely go. I would not be surprised if Okongwu is in Boston next year and turn out to be another impact player on the Celtics team and form one heck of a talented and dynamic core with Tatum and Brown.

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Celtics also have the 26th pick so they can use that along with 14 and 30 to move up in the draft.

Okongwu would indeed be great for them although Brad likes his 5’s to be able to shoot it from deep.

There's an interesting article I just read about Bam Adebayo ushering in a new generation of bigs whose biggest asset is that they can defend anywhere on the floor and score enough, which is actually away from the previous trend (5's that can shoot but basically are planted in the paint on defense like the Brook Lopez's and Kelly Olynyks of the world). The Heat is basically using Bam as a offense scheme killer by given them the ability to have any of their 5 guys fly across the floor and cover any spot. Kinda like the Knicks have with Robinson in that regard defensively (problem with Mitch, unlike Bam, is the offense hasn't quite evolved...yet). Most scouts believe that not only can Okongwu be that same type of defensive dervish able to cover anywhere on the floor but that his offensive game has significant potential. I would think that with all the scorers they have already that the Celts probably would be ok with moving towards having a guy that can basically anchor your defense and cover all over the floor while also not being a liability on offense.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The question with Toppin is will he be able to defend all the different types of players that the PF spot has to check now, with so many teams playing SFs there and how switch happy the league has gotten you definitely need someone there that can defend without getting targeted.

[Deeeez Knicks]

For the Celtics...

Doesnt make sense for Ball when they have all those guys that need to touch the ball and create their own shots. I can see the Celtics trying to trade up to draft someone like Onyeka Okongwu. He would be the perfect fit with that team and potentially take them up a whole other level. To which, the Celtics do have the 14th overall pick, the 30th pick along with quite a few young guys drafted in the 1st round of previous drafts (Romeo Langford, Robert Williams, etc) that they could trade to move up to the range that Okongwu will likely go. I would not be surprised if Okongwu is in Boston next year and turn out to be another impact player on the Celtics team and form one heck of a talented and dynamic core with Tatum and Brown.

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Celtics also have the 26th pick so they can use that along with 14 and 30 to move up in the draft.

Okongwu would indeed be great for them although Brad likes his 5’s to be able to shoot it from deep.

There's an interesting article I just read about Bam Adebayo ushering in a new generation of bigs whose biggest asset is that they can defend anywhere on the floor and score enough, which is actually away from the previous trend (5's that can shoot but basically are planted in the paint on defense like the Brook Lopez's and Kelly Olynyks of the world). The Heat is basically using Bam as a offense scheme killer by given them the ability to have any of their 5 guys fly across the floor and cover any spot. Kinda like the Knicks have with Robinson in that regard defensively (problem with Mitch, unlike Bam, is the offense hasn't quite evolved...yet). Most scouts believe that not only can Okongwu be that same type of defensive dervish able to cover anywhere on the floor but that his offensive game has significant potential. I would think that with all the scorers they have already that the Celts probably would be ok with moving towards having a guy that can basically anchor your defense and cover all over the floor.

I have always been a fan of those kinds of bigs that can protect the paint and defend all over the floor, and basically be a defensive anchor. Think even in todays game they can still be very valuable. I do see some potential and Onyeka and a big reason I think we shouldnt be trading Mitch (unless its a great package).

[moocow007]

The question with Toppin is will he be able to defend all the different types of players that the PF spot has to check now, with so many teams playing SFs there and how switch happy the league has gotten you definitely need someone there that can defend without getting targeted.

Honestly, I see him more as a small ball 5 than a 4. With a lot less offensive post players in the NBA you can probably live with him being undersized and a pretty weak interior defender, and leverage his relatively greater quickness and athleticism to run a more dynamic defense like the Heat is doing. He's no Bam obviously but would allow you to have a quicker team out there which can then theoretically leverage some of Toppin's skills more effectively on the offensive end (his ability to draw opposing C's out of the paint, running the floor, finishing, etc.) while having a more versatile player at the 4.

[Fat]

That’s a fair point. He has shown some skills that doesn’t rely on physical attributes though. Like shooting and handling the ball. I think just those 2 skills alone are pretty valuable, especially as a big man.

70% from the free throw line his shooting isn’t legit

you're saying this sarcastically but it would be totally fair to not buy into his 39% from 3 when he only took 2.6 3s a game and shot 70% from the line the projection based on that is 34%. Not terrible for a big but not elite like 39% is

Yeah not elite but he should be a pretty good floor spacer he’s coming off back to back years shooting 40% from that range. Not likely he remains that in the NBA but none the less he should be someone you can look to to make the shot.

For young players Free throw shooting a lot of the time comes down to something as simple as Focus, more practice Reps and in some cases a Slight adjustment in form. That’s why I don’t really lock into it as much because FTs is the easiest thing you can possibly improve on.

Yeah it gives a good indication Of course but me personally I wouldn’t throw all my eggs into it.

If we want to be realistic the only elite shooter in this draft expected to go lottery is nesmith if we’re going off FT/SHOT %

[spree8]

I don’t get the Obi hate. Plus I think his defense isn’t as bad as some make it. You can put together highlight reels of top defenders **** the bed too. He’s not elite or great, but I think he’s solid and under Thibs could be even better.

If we did in fact trade for Cp3... Obi would be fuggin nasty playing with him.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The question with Toppin is will he be able to defend all the different types of players that the PF spot has to check now, with so many teams playing SFs there and how switch happy the league has gotten you definitely need someone there that can defend without getting targeted.

Honestly, I see him more as a small ball 5 than a 4. With a lot less offensive post players in the NBA you can probably live with him being undersized and a pretty weak interior defender, and leverage his relatively greater quickness and athleticism to run a more dynamic defense like the Heat is doing. He's no Bam obviously but would allow you to have a quicker team out there which can then theoretically leverage some of Toppin's skills more effectively on the offensive end (his ability to draw opposing C's out of the paint, running the floor, finishing, etc.) while having a more versatile player at the 4.

If he's a small ball C that raises the issue of him not being able to play his best position because Mitch is here, and while I'm not high on rim runners, I don't like the idea of a 6'9" 225lbs center either. Even someone like Daniel Theis has 20lbs on that, and at that size you need to be an exceptional defender just the same. Seems like Toppin is a tweener 4/5, realistically if Mitch is part of our long term plans we should be looking for a big wing to play the 4 so that we have 1 or 2 guards, and 2 or 3 wings on the floor at all times with Mitch. That is the real key to what the Heat are doing with Bam, they removed the other big playing next to him.

[moocow007]

The question with Toppin is will he be able to defend all the different types of players that the PF spot has to check now, with so many teams playing SFs there and how switch happy the league has gotten you definitely need someone there that can defend without getting targeted.

Honestly, I see him more as a small ball 5 than a 4. With a lot less offensive post players in the NBA you can probably live with him being undersized and a pretty weak interior defender, and leverage his relatively greater quickness and athleticism to run a more dynamic defense like the Heat is doing. He's no Bam obviously but would allow you to have a quicker team out there which can then theoretically leverage some of Toppin's skills more effectively on the offensive end (his ability to draw opposing C's out of the paint, running the floor, finishing, etc.) while having a more versatile player at the 4.

If he's a small ball C that raises the issue of him not being able to play his best position because Mitch is here, and while I'm not high on rim runners, I don't like the idea of a 6'9" 225lbs center either. Even someone like Daniel Theis has 20lbs on that, and at that size you need to be an exceptional defender just the same. Seems like Toppin is a tweener 4/5, realistically if Mitch is part of our long term plans we should be looking for a big wing to play the 4 so that we have 1 or 2 guards, and 2 or 3 wings on the floor at all times with Mitch. That is the real key to what the Heat are doing with Bam, they removed the other big playing next to him.

Oh I didn't mean for the Knicks. That is actually part of the reason I'm not real high on him and why I keep comparing him to Randle in terms of impact (both statistically and winning). Statistically I'm sure he'll do well. I just don't think he'd be able to help a team that is not already winning to win. At 4th? Absolutely not. But at 8...to draft a guy who is a very very very talented offensive player? More palatable.

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[NoDopeOnSundays]

I don’t get the Obi hate. Plus I think his defense isn’t as bad as some make it. You can put together highlight reels of top defenders **** the bed too. He’s not elite or great, but I think he’s solid and under Thibs could be even better.

If we did in fact trade for Cp3... Obi would be fuggin nasty playing with him.

Thibs can't work magic, everyone thought Wiggins & KAT would turn into good defenders under him and they are both as bad as ever on that side of the floor. Toppin got stiff hips and really moves around like Amare, who was a terrible defender too.

I have no doubt he'll be able to score, but that defense is gonna be bad regardless of what position he plays.

[moocow007]

I don’t get the Obi hate. Plus I think his defense isn’t as bad as some make it. You can put together highlight reels of top defenders **** the bed too. He’s not elite or great, but I think he’s solid and under Thibs could be even better.

If we did in fact trade for Cp3... Obi would be fuggin nasty playing with him.

Yeah. For a traditional rebuild I don't like the guy for the same reasons I'm not liking Randle. But you put a CP3 on this team and hed absolutely do much better. Just like Randle would do much better. Both guys are very talented offensive players. May not be no.1 options on a winning team and shouldn't be relied to create their own shots regularly but still talented.

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[Fat]

I don’t get the Obi hate. Plus I think his defense isn’t as bad as some make it. You can put together highlight reels of top defenders **** the bed too. He’s not elite or great, but I think he’s solid and under Thibs could be even better.

If we did in fact trade for Cp3... Obi would be fuggin nasty playing with him.

I’m a obi fan he kind of reminds me of Amare. He might struggle some without a point guard but who won’t struggle @8 without a point guard

Vassell, okoro, nesmith any route you go they will all struggle without a competent point guard. Okoro to a lesser degree because his handle and athleticism will squeeze him by like RJ was still able to get by to an extent despite our scrub fest at point guard.