Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title

[LesGrossman]

I get it that most of the fanboys here are too young to even talk about MJ. But just as an idea, while they keep bringing up Pippen (whom they havent ever seen play) and prop up his value - he was drafted, and made into the player he ended up being, by MJ! MJ didnt go through the league, approached the strongest guys and practically begged them to join him, because he wanted to prove he could BEAT them. Its so weak and speaks of lack of character and strength and courage to do that, i cant even believe people want to declare such cowardlyness G.O.A.T..

To put things into perspective, Scotty was a high first round draft pick, but not close to #1. From there on he was exposed to MJ and his mentoring which was certainly tough but resulted in the player he became. Understand? The Bulls had a decent pick, MJ certainly helped with the selection, then he invested time and energy to make Scotty into his partner.

When LeBron re-joined the Cavs, they had Anthony Bennett as last years #1 pick, and they could pick the current #1 too. They ended up picking Andrew Wiggins but never intended to develop him, because he was immediately traded to the wolves together with Bennettso the Cavs could get "win now" Kevin Love (on the Wolves, he produced absolute monster numbers, i remember when he had his 30-30 double double). Do you not see the difference? Both Bennett and Wiggins ended up being busts because they received zero coaching or tutoring from better players (nowhere to be found near Minnesota back then).

So, whenever you try to use Pippen as an argument in the G.O.A.T. debate because you dont know better, you are actually proving the exact point, the difference between MJ and Bron, which is not a small one but a glaring, huge gap. Every little detail in Brons career speaks of that gap, the fear of being insufficient, a let down. He refused to ever participate in a dunk contest, by his own words because "he had too much to lose". Can you imagine MJ, Kobe or competitors of their size ever say something like that? Cant become any clearer how weak he is, and why he deep inside is absolutely certain that he will always need help.

[Arrow]

Ah, how the goalposts for these trolls have moved. The Lakers all of a sudden are a "super team" and "LeBron has a better #2 than other superstars." Ignoring the fact basketball isn't a 2v2 game and that all of them had penciled in the Clippers/Bucks for the Finals, throwing parades each time the Lakers lost to them in the regular season. Now that the LeBron is not going up against all-time great teams, they're scared as ****. I love it.

[Hornet Mania]

"When" they win is more than a bit too presumptuous. Lakers have looked great but they have 8 wins between them and the title, they're really only halfway to their goal. It's not time to start counting rings yet.

[The4thHorseman]

i commend all the superstars that forced themselves to completely sacrifice their game to keep lebron happy, too bad it never worked long-term because he was always gonna go hunt for the next younger superstar to keep afloat

Exactly who are / were all these "superstars" that had to sacrifice their games to play with James??

[Anfernee1]

Lebron was already the greatest of all time when he won a championship with Cavaliers

[Birth of the Cool]

The WHEN part of the title is maybe why some people get offended by this topic. It should be IF.

The LeBron hate is kinda perplexing to me. MJ is the GOAT and is the # 1 reason why the NBA exploded in popularity (Magic & Bird built the foundation of NBA popularity among the general populace but MJ was the one that took it to another level along with Stern and NBA on NBC and the like) but to dismiss LeBron as GOAT potential and make that argument seem completely irrelevant is strange to me outside of one having a homer view of MJ or a hater bias of LeBron.

MJ imo is still the GOAT and was far more entertaining (game style aesthetic) to me but as someone without bias I see how one can make an argument for LeBron as GOAT and I think by the end of his career LBJ will def be considered in the GOAT talk in terms of on court / career production. I think MJ will never be surpassed for his impact to the league and the phoenix rise of it's popularity mainly due to his game play, aesthetic, look, style, etc.

[NuggetsWY]

Well, ... if we're already awarding the Lakers the title then this year shouldn't count as being anything impressive. So it wouldn't propel him into GOAT unless you already believe he's the GOAT. I'd suggest waiting to see if the Lakers win the title - and waiting to see if LeBron is the MVP - and so on.

[Sprewell4Three]

IF Lebron wins this year. He will and should be crowned, G.O.A.T.
I would add. Not only numbers of rings 4. But LED 3 DIFFERENT TEAMS. Just unheard of and extremely difficult, rather than just staying with a single solitary team. MJ or KOBE could not win with 3 different teams

Yeah he did do it on 3 teams while also ganging up with the best players in the world on those 3 teams. lol

[Air Apparent]

what do u mean "who are / were all these "superstars" that had to sacrifice their games to play with James??"


are we gonna act like bosh and love werent putting up 25/12 type numbers, both JUST entering their early primes moving in an upwards trajectory in their careers prior to playing next to lebron and completely ended up altering their games in the worst possible way for their individual careers (but for the betterment of the team) while bron kept with his stat-padding ways, his game has never been affected on any team because he never changes, and wade was lebrons equal too lets not be naive, it was only after his boy got punked by jj barea and terry in the finals that he recognized bron is a bitch boy and needs a boost so he literally sacrificed his own latter prime years so bron could grow a **** pair because he has been pampered his whole life (contrary to people thinking wade just wasnt "as good" anymore...the guy was forced in a completely different role to accomodate the "goats" lack of skill to adapt ), fizdale ud and wade have already exposed all this to us time and time again, because unlike bron who has like 3 moves in his offensive repertoire to this day and is useless off the ball, wade was skilled enough and good enough to completely change his game so the team actually won something, and bron wasnt twiddling his thumbs like a useless bum when the pressure kicked in

shows how major of an upgrade and dominant AD is despite people acting like he's not on the team and bron is magically just winning this year in the west, because even with essentially that same style to this day, AD is still the best player on the team by far and has carried the load on both ends of the floor

and let's not forget to mention what kyrie was doing in the finals to steph curry and them boys, he literally dipped because he recognized how much he had to limit his game next to bron and how toxic he was with the roster changes, he was the one with some of the major heroics but people don't even mention his name lol, and if people are gonna act like kyrie isn't a superstar but claim warriors were a superteam because they had steph curry...then what does kyrie always having his way with a superstar say about kyrie?

lebron is a legend, he's still a top player in the league today, his longevity and luck with health is unheard of, even kareem had injuries, and personally i WANT the lakers (and heat) in the finals, ild be happy if either win, the only thing that irks me about lakers winning is this type of nonsense that follows, endless barrage of desperate cronies grasping at straws because time ran out a long time ago and they gotta do some serious gymnastics to fool the casuals

he is simply not built like a goat in any shape or form, runs from adversity every chance he gets in his career (well documented), makes excuses every loss, comes out with fake ass hand casts, activates his "groin injury" every opportunity, and comments like "at the end of the day its just basketball" .."at the end of the day im still lebron james and youre jobs sucks" "check my stats" shirts, he was the only one thinking he was gonna win 7 rings, made it awkward for riley and wade and everyone in miami because man got too excited thinking he was gonna overtake jordan, got a nice reality check by jj barea and jason terry, tried to get every coach fired (miami put him in his place, david blatt got disrespected though) he would probably cry if phil jackson was in his face, his teammtes are always chopped liver, he at one point had deron williams, wade, d-rose all who either had decent seasons prior to or post their cavs stint, but he has always been someone who just tries to beg every name player to come join him and throw them in a blender because he doesnt know how to build a team, he wants the easy way path of least resistance, he been begging players to join him since larry hughes, he grabs every free agent he can, man was literally begging kawhi to come join him and ANTHONY DAVIS lool, bro how much help do you need? you have dwight howard who was averaging 15 an 10 type numbers to come OFF the bench, especially in a year where he is in much better shape, and you even hoped boogie would stay healthy enough to come off the bench

sounds more like playoff p more than the goat when you look at all that, not to mention, all his playoff runs were lopsided, when the teams were balanced (he was on 60+ win team) he got outplayed by dwight, ran off the court all upset, distanced himself from his teammates and defeat every single time, but after his game-winner in that series he compared his game-winner to jordan vs the cavaliers on espn the next day ...this guy and all his cronies, their entire life is just pushing the narrative of him dethroning jordan it's so funny

"that one right there made me the greatest" ...oh did it now? LMAO

this fool even making space jam 2 and dont think that is a random occurrence, this was a legacy manipulating move, no one love and respect lebron like they did kobe and jordan, nothing will change that at this point in his life, and he is gonna go into overdrive after retirement in the media to push his legacy, while kobe and jordan real goat worthy players rode off into the sunset without this obsession to prove their worth because their peers recognized it,

until the bron nonsense got outta hand these past few years with the 4 same people on tv on klutch's payroll

jordan had to shut all that nonsense up real quick this year and bring balance to the force with the last dance


at the end of the day, he isn't even close, that is the sad reality, he figured out how to hack the league with his miami tenure on how to have the most opportunities and least resistance (if he coudlve brought kd he wouldve too lol) and yet has still gotten mostly Ls, everyone in his era been eating, everyone chilling and winning

[ninjamilk23]

Lebron is playing on the ONLY super team in the league. He created another super team. Only team with 2 1st teamers.

I'd argue that a championship this year not only doesn't move the needle, but it wiggles it backwards before returning to the center.

Lebron created another super team. Get real.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Lakers are definitely not a super team this year. The skill level drops tremendously after LeBron and AD.

So what?

Lebron and AD. Two super stars. No one else has two superstars.

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Clippers have Kawhi and PG13 and 2 six man of the year.

Rockets have Harden and Westbrook.

Boston have 3 players averaging 20PPG and Marcus Smart.

I think this is the most balanced NBA we have seen in a long time.

[LAKESHOW]

Some here are looking at it the wrong way. The way to traditionally do it, keep the chemistry together. Weve done that for decades in Hollywood. The Bulls kept the band together for years, etc. THE ONLY OTHER WAY has been discovered. Unveiled. Opened up to where only 1 man has cracked the code, and Revolutionized it. And IF he does it a 3rd time, his being an innovator should be recognized as Genius, and a GOAT who took the Path not traveled on before. A PATH THAT SAYS FU TO INCOMPETENT OWNERSHIP. And takes Power and Places it back into the hands of the Player. And MJ, Kobe, none of em, has done that to the level of Lebron James. Give the Man his due.

[Dino353]

I make a comparison in hip-hop to basketball because everyone says there was nothing like 90's hip hop and if you talk to anyone from that era they'll likely side with Michael Jordan. Jordan never faced any resistance in the 90's, teams were not build to beat him the same way it was for LeBron. How were the Cavs ever going to improve without any first round picks in LeBron's first tenure in Cleveland? Jordan received the 5th pick of the NBA Draft which was Scottie Pippen and also Horace Grant. Then they hired Tex Winters and Phil Jackson to put a system together which gave Michael Jordan a role.

LeBron James never had the luxuries of having a coach the caliber of Phil Jackson who proved he could take his system elsewhere and win 5 more championships without Michael Jordan. Jordan fans want to disregard Pippen as if he was a sidekick and give him that label based of what the media says but I grew up in that era and Pippen and Jordan were both leaders on that team, they just played differently.

[-MetA4-]

Some here are looking at it the wrong way. The way to traditionally do it, keep the chemistry together. Weve done that for decades in Hollywood. The Bulls kept the band together for years, etc. THE ONLY OTHER WAY has been discovered. Unveiled. Opened up to where only 1 man has cracked the code, and Revolutionized it. And IF he does it a 3rd time, his being an innovator should be recognized as Genius, and a GOAT who took the Path not traveled on before. A PATH THAT SAYS FU TO INCOMPETENT OWNERSHIP. And takes Power and Places it back into the hands of the Player. And MJ, Kobe, none of em, has done that to the level of Lebron James. Give the Man his due.

Uhm, LeBron is a basketball PLAYER my man. We are debating his status as the GOAT PLAYER, not GOAT Front Office executive LMAO. Michael Jordan is regarded as the GOAT because of his play on the court.

What you literally just said: LeBron needs to be celebrated as the GOAT player, because he revolutionized team building? What LMAO? Did anything he did even improve the game? I don't think so, and in reality, his "innovation" only helped HIMSELF. Like Air Apparent pointed out above; all of the other star-caliber players that he dragged along with him had to gimp their own game to appease HIM. So instead of the fans getting to see Chris Bosh in his prime playing his best game; we got to see Chris Bosh playing some lame support role in order to assure that LeBron still looked good. Thanks LeBron!

[LAKESHOW]

You agree with and rely on Air Appearant for your info. Air Appearant brings up some cartoon. MJs "Legacy" is dependent upon things off the court. Like some cartoon. GOAT status to you and air Appearant appearantly take these off court ventures like cartoons as important.

[The4thHorseman]

are we gonna act like bosh and love werent putting up 25/12 type numbers, both JUST entering their early primes

You said "all the superstars" that James played with had to sacrifice their games. I asked who those were cause you made it sound as if there were many who did this, yet you give 2 examples of players who weren't even considered superstars to begin with.

Both players combined played 13 years before signing with Miami and Cleveland. They made 3 All-NBA teams and 3 playoff wins with Minnesota never making the playoffs. Nobody considered them superstars before playing in Miami or Cleveland. Just another example of very good players putting up great stats on bad teams.

[Alatan]

Lakers are the only team in the NBA that have two 1st team AllNBA players. Its not just LeBron leading a Cinderella run. Lets chill on propping up LeBron as the GOAT because of this season. They were not the heavy favorites to win it all coming into the season due to their lack of depth and chemistry but they were in the discussion right there with the Clippers and the Bucks.

[JoeyLightYears]

all of the other star-caliber players that he dragged along with him had to gimp their own game to appease HIM. So instead of the fans getting to see Chris Bosh in his prime playing his best game; we got to see Chris Bosh playing some lame support role in order to assure that LeBron still looked good. Thanks LeBron!

Every alpha player is going to have a detrimental effect on their secondary star's numbers; this is what makes them the alpha. When MJ left for two years Pippen's stats got a big boost and he made first team all-NBA. This is expected since he was the first option. When Kawhi and George teamed up this year, Kawhi's stats stayed the same and George's took a big dip. What did you think would happen? This is the case for every superstar in NBA history so don't pretend it's a LeBron thing.

[LAKESHOW]

Lebron Breaks Record. 16th ALL NBA TEAM

[walk with me]

No, and he never will be. We've known this since 2010, and that was underlined again in 2011.

People acting like LeBRon is a God who turned 3 franchises around are also forgetting that he burned and gutted those franchises when he left.

MJ had Scotty Thought!!!

True, but MJ didn't peace out to go play with Scotty in his prime every 4 years like LeBron does. No honor, no pride in anything but himself.

LeBron is the best player of his generation, but he will never be the goat because he started ring chasing in his mid-20's. He will never be the goat because when things got even a modicum more difficult, he always took the cowards way out.

To me. LeBron is just this generations Shaq except with more longevity

This is the perfect take

[TimCanDunk]

People love to say that Jordan couldn't win without Pippen but they don't even understand Pippen wasn't even that good in 1998. He was only selected to the 3rd all nba team and Jordan won the series vs the Pacers and Jazz by himself.