Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron?

[stormi]

So the whole argument by OP is basically empty stats = better basketball player.

LeBron isn't even in the GOAT discussion...its simple

I'm actually surprised after multiple collusions and so many cherry picked teams, that this loser could only muster up 3 rings...2 of which he was luckily bailed out on and given.

Nothing about this guy makes him Goat

Sure man, and all of that top level competition Jordan had to beat surely makes him the GOAT

Dude got locked up by a PG in Gary Payton and lost 3x in the first round before Pippen showed up. He surely was amazing though for those 6 years where the deck was stacked in the dead era of basketball hahaha

ksajfklasfj it's sad because he had to wait until he he teamed up with a top ~15 player of all time, was 30 years old and Bird and Magic were professional golfers before he could win anything that wasn't a dunk contest.

[TheGOATRises007]

So the whole argument by OP is basically empty stats = better basketball player.

LeBron isn't even in the GOAT discussion...its simple

I'm actually surprised after multiple collusions and so many cherry picked teams, that this loser could only muster up 3 rings...2 of which he was luckily bailed out on and given.

Nothing about this guy makes him Goat

Sure man, and all of that top level competition Jordan had to beat surely makes him the GOAT

Dude got locked up by a PG in Gary Payton and lost 3x in the first round before Pippen showed up. He surely was amazing though for those 6 years where the deck was stacked in the dead era of basketball hahaha

ksajfklasfj it's sad because he had to wait until he he teamed up with a top ~15 player of all time, was 30 years old and Bird and Magic were professional golfers before he could win anything that wasn't a dunk contest.

Pippen is not a top 15 player of all time

Pippen was drafted by the Bulls. He didn't leave to team up with him

Stop. Go follow a different sport. You are dumb as a rock.

[LivingLegend]

So the whole argument by OP is basically empty stats = better basketball player.

LeBron isn't even in the GOAT discussion...its simple

I'm actually surprised after multiple collusions and so many cherry picked teams, that this loser could only muster up 3 rings...2 of which he was luckily bailed out on and given.

Nothing about this guy makes him Goat

Sure man, and all of that top level competition Jordan had to beat surely makes him the GOAT

Dude got locked up by a PG in Gary Payton and lost 3x in the first round before Pippen showed up. He surely was amazing though for those 6 years where the deck was stacked in the dead era of basketball hahaha

ksajfklasfj it's sad because he had to wait until he he teamed up with a top ~15 player of all time, was 30 years old and Bird and Magic were professional golfers before he could win anything that wasn't a dunk contest.

Well the only reason he got by the Pistons/Lakeshow is because they got old by the time Jordan was in his prime so that is legit

Outside of that Jordan did however beat the juggernaut of John Stockton and his 13ppg as well as Dan Marjle. so he has those notches of greatness defeated on his belt.

Honestly though. Did Jordan ever beat somebody as good as current James Harden in his 6 championship runs?

[stormi]

Sure man, and all of that top level competition Jordan had to beat surely makes him the GOAT

Dude got locked up by a PG in Gary Payton and lost 3x in the first round before Pippen showed up. He surely was amazing though for those 6 years where the deck was stacked in the dead era of basketball hahaha

ksajfklasfj it's sad because he had to wait until he he teamed up with a top ~15 player of all time, was 30 years old and Bird and Magic were professional golfers before he could win anything that wasn't a dunk contest.

Pippen is not a top 15 player of all time

Pippen was drafted by the Bulls. He didn't leave to team up with him

Stop. Go follow a different sport. You are dumb as a rock.

Nerd raging at your keyboard because the man you stan is a 90s Rudy Gay that sticks his tongue out occasionally. Couldn't be me

[TheGOATRises007]

ksajfklasfj it's sad because he had to wait until he he teamed up with a top ~15 player of all time, was 30 years old and Bird and Magic were professional golfers before he could win anything that wasn't a dunk contest.

Pippen is not a top 15 player of all time

Pippen was drafted by the Bulls. He didn't leave to team up with him

Stop. Go follow a different sport. You are dumb as a rock.

Nerd raging at your keyboard because the man you stan is a 90s Rudy Gay that sticks his tongue out occasionally. Couldn't be me

Legit hope you're trolling

I don't stan anyone. I don't give a crap about MJ nor Lebron.

[The4thHorseman]

Lebron also had a bad series in the 2007 Finals. Lebron stans seem to want to pretend that the 2011 Finals is an isolated incident.

Lebron James was horrible in his first two Finals appearances against the Spurs and Mavericks.

Can you name me any playoff series that Michael Jordan ever played below average?

I can tell you were not alive to see Jordan play, but Jordan never had a bad series. Like it just did not happen. The dude always came to play.

Yes we point to examples of Lebron in the finals. Which Jordan could never make as the head honcho. His record without Pippen speaks for itself. The Bulls winning 50+ games after he left speaks for itself. He was the best scorer on a stacked team. Not diverse enough to carry a team. The stat above shows all of his playoff wins came from being a higher seed and needing HCA. Sad.

You should go follow a different sport.

The Bulls' SRS without Jordan wasn't very good either. It was 2.87. It was 6+ the prior season. It was even worse in 94-95 until Jordan came back from retirement and led them to a 4.32 SRS.

It's quite obvious by now that you literally have no clue what you're talking about.

I hope you're trolling, but I think you're just clueless.

What league superstar left his team and said team won 2 less games from the previous year and went to a game 7 in the ECSF without replacing that best player? Unless you call a guy who was the Bulls 6th round pick years earlier who became a journeyman and wasn't even the league when the Bulls signed him in signed 1994 to play SG in the starting line-up?

[JoeyLightYears]

What league superstar left his team and said team won 2 less games from the previous year and went to a game 7 in the ECF without replacing that best player? Unless you call a guy who was the Bulls 6th round pick years earlier who became a journeyman and wasn't even the league when the Bulls signed him in signed 1994 to play SG in the starting line-up?

Don't you dare disrespect the great Pete Meyers!

[TheGOATRises007]

Yes we point to examples of Lebron in the finals. Which Jordan could never make as the head honcho. His record without Pippen speaks for itself. The Bulls winning 50+ games after he left speaks for itself. He was the best scorer on a stacked team. Not diverse enough to carry a team. The stat above shows all of his playoff wins came from being a higher seed and needing HCA. Sad.

You should go follow a different sport.

The Bulls' SRS without Jordan wasn't very good either. It was 2.87. It was 6+ the prior season. It was even worse in 94-95 until Jordan came back from retirement and led them to a 4.32 SRS.

It's quite obvious by now that you literally have no clue what you're talking about.

I hope you're trolling, but I think you're just clueless.

What league superstar left his team and said team won 2 less games from the previous year and went to a game 7 in the ECSF without replacing that best player? Unless you call a guy who was the Bulls 6th round pick years earlier who became a journeyman and wasn't even the league when the Bulls signed him in signed 1994 to play SG in the starting line-up?

I never understood this argument.

They won 2 less games with a far worse SRS and lost 2 rounds before the finals.

Their SRS was 2.87. That's not indicative of a great team.

It's a crap argument. If the Bulls had a great SRS and actually won the title, then the argument is valid.

[Dundalis]

So the whole argument by OP is basically empty stats = better basketball player.

LeBron isn't even in the GOAT discussion...its simple

I'm actually surprised after multiple collusions and so many cherry picked teams, that this loser could only muster up 3 rings...2 of which he was luckily bailed out on and given.

Nothing about this guy makes him Goat

Sure man, and all of that top level competition Jordan had to beat surely makes him the GOAT

Dude got locked up by a PG in Gary Payton and lost 3x in the first round before Pippen showed up. He surely was amazing though for those 6 years where the deck was stacked in the dead era of basketball hahaha

As opposed to Lebron getting locked up by... thin air in 2011?

[SichtingLives]

Bron fans looking all sorts of disheveled in these pandemic times

[Kobe187]

No.

MJ without Pippen:
5 seasons
5 losing seasons
1-9 playoff record

MJ was at his best in the late 80’s on a very poor team, had he joined any of the top 10 teams in the NBA he would’ve won a Championship every single year, he didn’t do that as that’s not what true competitiveness and greatness is all about. He tried to develop his teammates through the school of hard knocks, didn’t call up his buddies and beg them to join him. The Bulls finished the 95 season with a 47–35 record, going 13–4 with Jordan back in the lineup. In 96, with a in shape Jordan, they went 72-10, swept the Magic in the rematch and won the 1st championship of their 2nd 3peat. Pippen never won without Jordan, he had his opportunities with Jordan’s retirement and on the Blazers. Pippen was good but wouldn’t be close to the player he was without Jordan. People forget just how dominant of a force MJ was in the 80’s. Jordan was a once in a lifetime type of athlete. Jordan ran a blazing 4.38 40-yard dash, Usain Bolt ran it at 4.22-seconds. Michael Jordan's vertical jump was officially measured at North Carolina at 46 inches. Accompanied with this incredible explosiveness was his stamina, strength, quickness, agility and durability. He was a freakish athlete, simply unbelievable. His talent and skill was incredible. His IQ & Awareness was amazing. His will and drive to win is legendary.

Never seen Jordan flop, if he got fouled hard (in the put you on your ass era, not this cupcake era) he would just come back harder the very next play. Jordan never failed to make the Playoffs ever while on the Bulls, Lebron couldn’t take the Lakers to the playoffs without AD. Jordan was Elite defensively, had amazing situational awareness, changed the way basketball was played, revolutionized the game. MJ took no nights off; no maintenance days or heat cramps; played sick played hurt didn’t matter just too much heart. 6/6. Black Jesus is the GOAT and it’s not even close.

[TheHardenChoke]

So the whole argument by OP is basically empty stats = better basketball player.

LeBron isn't even in the GOAT discussion...its simple

I'm actually surprised after multiple collusions and so many cherry picked teams, that this loser could only muster up 3 rings...2 of which he was luckily bailed out on and given.

Nothing about this guy makes him Goat

Sure man, and all of that top level competition Jordan had to beat surely makes him the GOAT

Dude got locked up by a PG in Gary Payton and lost 3x in the first round before Pippen showed up. He surely was amazing though for those 6 years where the deck was stacked in the dead era of basketball hahaha

ksajfklasfj it's sad because he had to wait until he he teamed up with a top ~15 player of all time, was 30 years old and Bird and Magic were professional golfers before he could win anything that wasn't a dunk contest.

Lol you shook bitch, he literally beat Magic in the finals.

Your boy did nothing before colluding, he has underachieved his whole career, even with all the help.

He is exactly the kind of stan I would expect the weak youth of today to stan....run when it gets too hard...every time.

Nothing but a fake star with empty stats, pumped up by the media and loved by the stupid.

Weak

[Homer38]

You should go follow a different sport.

The Bulls' SRS without Jordan wasn't very good either. It was 2.87. It was 6+ the prior season. It was even worse in 94-95 until Jordan came back from retirement and led them to a 4.32 SRS.

It's quite obvious by now that you literally have no clue what you're talking about.

I hope you're trolling, but I think you're just clueless.

What league superstar left his team and said team won 2 less games from the previous year and went to a game 7 in the ECSF without replacing that best player? Unless you call a guy who was the Bulls 6th round pick years earlier who became a journeyman and wasn't even the league when the Bulls signed him in signed 1994 to play SG in the starting line-up?

I never understood this argument.

They won 2 less games with a far worse SRS and lost 2 rounds before the finals.

Their SRS was 2.87. That's not indicative of a great team.

It's a crap argument. If the Bulls had a great SRS and actually won the title, then the argument is valid.

The win-loss record is way more important that the SRS.

[stormi]

No.

MJ without Pippen:
5 seasons
5 losing seasons
1-9 playoff record

MJ was at his best in the late 80’s on a very poor team

Sounds like an MJ problem. Lebron had the Cavs a 50 win team in 3 years. MJ couldn't go +.500

The difference between a pure scorer and an all around beast.

[stormi]

Sure man, and all of that top level competition Jordan had to beat surely makes him the GOAT

Dude got locked up by a PG in Gary Payton and lost 3x in the first round before Pippen showed up. He surely was amazing though for those 6 years where the deck was stacked in the dead era of basketball hahaha

ksajfklasfj it's sad because he had to wait until he he teamed up with a top ~15 player of all time, was 30 years old and Bird and Magic were professional golfers before he could win anything that wasn't a dunk contest.

Lol you shook bitch, he literally beat Magic in the finals.

Your boy did nothing before colluding, he has underachieved his whole career, even with all the help.

He is exactly the kind of stan I would expect the weak youth of today to stan....run when it gets too hard...every time.

Nothing but a fake star with empty stats, pumped up by the media and loved by the stupid.

Weak

Lebron going to the finals as a 22 year old alone is more impressive than MJ's entire career. Beating a 73-9 team spearheaded by the two greatest shooters of all time down 3-1 is the greatest feat in sporting history. Sticking your tongue out as a 33 year old to squeeze by Charles Barkley pales in comparison.

[CodeBreaker]

Jordan never had a choke job worse than 2011 LeBron

[stormi]

He couldn't choke because there was no expectation of him other to get dunked on by the Pistons until Pippen came around. That's all anyone knew him for.

[Hornet Mania]

Some (not all) Lebron fans on this thread are just making him look terrible by association.

If you want to make the case Lebron is superior due to longevity then that's fine, I don't agree but I get where you're coming from. But if your argument is basically 'MJ secretly sucked until Pippen arrived and then they beat crap teams forevermore' that's just being silly.

It's especially comical to give Pippen all the credit for the Bulls finally overcoming Detroit when he got absolutely bodied by them in 89 (averaged 9/7/3 shooting 40/20/56) and his migraine likely cost the team a series win in Game 7 in 1990 (he scored 2pts before exiting). He definitely does deserve some respect for sticking with it and eventually overcoming his failures, but it was Pippen not MJ who was the reason Chicago got owned by the Bad Boys early on.

[DrPampiloni]

To OP: the eye test

[Spanish_Laker]

No, there isn't. He played in a weak era, cakewalk conference with a stacked team with a two-way superstar on his side, excellent defensive minded bigs and shooters on the perimeter. Imagine if LeBron had a Pippen consistently in his career and didn't have to go through the best team in NBA history, the Warriors or the Spurs dynasty.

LeBron is better than MJ at every aspect of the game except the midrange game.