2020 Draft Thread, Part 2

[ShayDee]

Deni to me has high end role player potential. I don't know if he is worth the #2 pick, not for a role player or a back up just putting up 14 or so points at his peak. They say his shot has improved, well every single prospect that has been working has also improved their shot, that vid shouldn't hype up anyone. I will still say that this is all recency bias on Deni because he got to play while everyone else hasn't. Before he got back playing he was around 5-7 on most boards, everyone was complaining about his euro league stats and not getting minutes and also complaining about his inconsistent shooting, no star potential and awful free throw shooting but now he is jumping up after 2 months? Really? While every other prospects negatives are still highlighted on and on again without anyone caring to look at context. The FO might not regret their decision now or in a year, and I get that they want less uncertainty given the tight window we have but this screams so much like a Doncic/Bagley situation to me. I have categorized some prospects I believe their potential would be

Star/Allstar
Ball, Edwards, Wiseman, Okoro, Toppin, Nesmith, Cole Anthony, Jahm'ius Ramsey, Oturu, Jaden McDaniels

All defense
Okoro, Wiseman, Precious, Onyeka, Vassell, Pat Will, Tyler Bey, Jahmi'us Ramsey, Paul Reed, Ashton Hagans, Malachi Flynn, Ty-Shon Alexander, Tre Jones, Devon Dotson, Nate Hinton

3point champ/Specialist
Nesmith, Bey, Tyrell Terry, Bane, Winston, Nwora, Quickley, Isaiah Joe, Sam Merrill, Nate Darling, Justinian Jessup, Payton Pritchard, Tyrese Haliburton (catch and shoot), Markus Howard, Tyler Hagedorn, Malik Fitts

Stretch 5s
Wiseman, Jalen Smith, Toppin, Pokusevski, Vernon Carey, Oturu, Reggie Perry, Tillie, Tyler Hagedorn, Kaleb Wesson, Yoeli Childs

I understand everyone is putting a ceiling on Deni as a high end role player, but I don’t understand why.

Like your star potential list is so large and all of those prospects have a ton more to work on than Deni does to get to an all star. He led the Israeli national team to 2 gold medals for the u20 tournament. He won mvp the 2nd year. He won mvp for the Israeli league this past year. I understand his role was diminished in the euro league but he’s willing to play a role if needed while he’s obviously capable of doing more if asked.

What’s preventing Deni from being an all star ceiling like jaden McDaniels?

McDaniels has better ball handling and defensive/shooting potential. Can beat his man and just shoot over them. He just needs to learn the game more and get more reps in the gym while getting stronger. Don't let the inefficiency fool you.

Watch on YouTube

[vetmin]

Deni to me has high end role player potential. I don't know if he is worth the #2 pick, not for a role player or a back up just putting up 14 or so points at his peak. They say his shot has improved, well every single prospect that has been working has also improved their shot, that vid shouldn't hype up anyone. I will still say that this is all recency bias on Deni because he got to play while everyone else hasn't. Before he got back playing he was around 5-7 on most boards, everyone was complaining about his euro league stats and not getting minutes and also complaining about his inconsistent shooting, no star potential and awful free throw shooting but now he is jumping up after 2 months? Really? While every other prospects negatives are still highlighted on and on again without anyone caring to look at context. The FO might not regret their decision now or in a year, and I get that they want less uncertainty given the tight window we have but this screams so much like a Doncic/Bagley situation to me. I have categorized some prospects I believe their potential would be

Star/Allstar
Ball, Edwards, Wiseman, Okoro, Toppin, Nesmith, Cole Anthony, Jahm'ius Ramsey, Oturu, Jaden McDaniels

All defense
Okoro, Wiseman, Precious, Onyeka, Vassell, Pat Will, Tyler Bey, Jahmi'us Ramsey, Paul Reed, Ashton Hagans, Malachi Flynn, Ty-Shon Alexander, Tre Jones, Devon Dotson, Nate Hinton

3point champ/Specialist
Nesmith, Bey, Tyrell Terry, Bane, Winston, Nwora, Quickley, Isaiah Joe, Sam Merrill, Nate Darling, Justinian Jessup, Payton Pritchard, Tyrese Haliburton (catch and shoot), Markus Howard, Tyler Hagedorn, Malik Fitts

Stretch 5s
Wiseman, Jalen Smith, Toppin, Pokusevski, Vernon Carey, Oturu, Reggie Perry, Tillie, Tyler Hagedorn, Kaleb Wesson, Yoeli Childs

I understand everyone is putting a ceiling on Deni as a high end role player, but I don’t understand why.

Like your star potential list is so large and all of those prospects have a ton more to work on than Deni does to get to an all star. He led the Israeli national team to 2 gold medals for the u20 tournament. He won mvp the 2nd year. He won mvp for the Israeli league this past year. I understand his role was diminished in the euro league but he’s willing to play a role if needed while he’s obviously capable of doing more if asked.

What’s preventing Deni from being an all star ceiling like jaden McDaniels?

Agreed. Honestly “star potential” is such a crapshoot unless a guy is basically coming in as a star or at least a guaranteed good starter in the league from day 1 (Lebron, Luka, KD, etc).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Onus]

It's not about being bad, it's about consistency. Some of his misses are extremely bad misses. Sure he doesn't lack confidence, but he rushes most of the time, sometimes it's just a bad shot and he is no specialists to be taking such shots

Yes as an 18 year old kid you should be as consistent as lamelo or Edwards at shooting the ball.

lol don't even bring up age here, it's not a discussion about that and he is almost 20

Got it so even though he shot better than the 18 year olds lamelo and Edwards he’s the only one that is inconsistent?

[wco81]

Spoiler:

Interesting...

His shooting has been one of the big concerns for me...also, it’s tough to judge how much “dog” Deni has in him. Some international players just don’t have the toughness to make it here.

Here’s where I’d love to have Jerry West in the room to give his take.

Yeah Deni may be drafting on the success of Luka.

Most of the Euro players are finesse perimeter players. Obviously Jokic isn't soft. Not a great defensive player or athletic monster, just skilled and tough.

The best defenders among Euro players have been long centers, like Moutombo or Manute.

At best, international players will give you great outside shooting, ball handling and playmaking. But not defense, unless they have great athleticism like Batum.

Finesse perimeter players? And then you say they’re just skilled and tough ... sounds like you have some type of cognitive dissonance going on.

Jokic and Luka are tough. But the rest of them? Name some others then.

Few of them are great defenders because they simply lack the physical attributes like quickness.

[ShayDee]

Yes as an 18 year old kid you should be as consistent as lamelo or Edwards at shooting the ball.

lol don't even bring up age here, it's not a discussion about that and he is almost 20

Got it so even though he shot better than the 18 year olds lamelo and Edwards he’s the only one that is inconsistent?

Just being good at certain things don't make you a star in this league. you have to have that it factor as well as be very dominant in the game, being able to break down defenses and demand double teams etc. Deni just doesn't have that yet, dunno if he will ever. And I said high end role player. That is not a knock. Guys like Gallinari, Bojan Bogdonovic, Myles Turner, Marcus Smart, Crowder etc are high end but don't make that jump to stardom

[Onus]

Deni to me has high end role player potential. I don't know if he is worth the #2 pick, not for a role player or a back up just putting up 14 or so points at his peak. They say his shot has improved, well every single prospect that has been working has also improved their shot, that vid shouldn't hype up anyone. I will still say that this is all recency bias on Deni because he got to play while everyone else hasn't. Before he got back playing he was around 5-7 on most boards, everyone was complaining about his euro league stats and not getting minutes and also complaining about his inconsistent shooting, no star potential and awful free throw shooting but now he is jumping up after 2 months? Really? While every other prospects negatives are still highlighted on and on again without anyone caring to look at context. The FO might not regret their decision now or in a year, and I get that they want less uncertainty given the tight window we have but this screams so much like a Doncic/Bagley situation to me. I have categorized some prospects I believe their potential would be

Star/Allstar
Ball, Edwards, Wiseman, Okoro, Toppin, Nesmith, Cole Anthony, Jahm'ius Ramsey, Oturu, Jaden McDaniels

All defense
Okoro, Wiseman, Precious, Onyeka, Vassell, Pat Will, Tyler Bey, Jahmi'us Ramsey, Paul Reed, Ashton Hagans, Malachi Flynn, Ty-Shon Alexander, Tre Jones, Devon Dotson, Nate Hinton

3point champ/Specialist
Nesmith, Bey, Tyrell Terry, Bane, Winston, Nwora, Quickley, Isaiah Joe, Sam Merrill, Nate Darling, Justinian Jessup, Payton Pritchard, Tyrese Haliburton (catch and shoot), Markus Howard, Tyler Hagedorn, Malik Fitts

Stretch 5s
Wiseman, Jalen Smith, Toppin, Pokusevski, Vernon Carey, Oturu, Reggie Perry, Tillie, Tyler Hagedorn, Kaleb Wesson, Yoeli Childs

I understand everyone is putting a ceiling on Deni as a high end role player, but I don’t understand why.

Like your star potential list is so large and all of those prospects have a ton more to work on than Deni does to get to an all star. He led the Israeli national team to 2 gold medals for the u20 tournament. He won mvp the 2nd year. He won mvp for the Israeli league this past year. I understand his role was diminished in the euro league but he’s willing to play a role if needed while he’s obviously capable of doing more if asked.

What’s preventing Deni from being an all star ceiling like jaden McDaniels?

McDaniels has better ball handling and defensive/shooting potential. Can beat his man and just shoot over them. He just needs to learn the game more and get more reps in the gym while getting stronger. Don't let the inefficiency fool you.

Watch on YouTube

Lmao what makes him have have more potential ball handling, defensively and shooting potential? Because you saw some hs mixtape?

He’s as tall as Deni and has 1” wingspan on him. I’m not supposed to worry about his inefficiency but I am for Deni? Okkk

[Onus]

Spoiler:

Yeah Deni may be drafting on the success of Luka.

Most of the Euro players are finesse perimeter players. Obviously Jokic isn't soft. Not a great defensive player or athletic monster, just skilled and tough.

The best defenders among Euro players have been long centers, like Moutombo or Manute.

At best, international players will give you great outside shooting, ball handling and playmaking. But not defense, unless they have great athleticism like Batum.

Finesse perimeter players? And then you say they’re just skilled and tough ... sounds like you have some type of cognitive dissonance going on.

Jokic and Luka are tough. But the rest of them? Name some others then.

Few of them are great defenders because they simply lack the physical attributes like quickness.

Kirilenko

Tough Dragić. Also Deni is half Serbian from his dads side who played professional basketball

[Onus]

lol don't even bring up age here, it's not a discussion about that and he is almost 20

Got it so even though he shot better than the 18 year olds lamelo and Edwards he’s the only one that is inconsistent?

Just being good at certain things don't make you a star in this league. you have to have that it factor as well as be very dominant in the game, being able to break down defenses and demand double teams etc. Deni just doesn't have that yet, dunno if he will ever. And I said high end role player. That is not a knock. Guys like Gallinari, Bojan Bogdonovic, Myles Turner, Marcus Smart, Crowder etc are high end but don't make that jump to stardom

What is that IT factor for all of these players?

Ball, Edwards, Wiseman, Okoro, Toppin, Nesmith, Cole Anthony, Jahm'ius Ramsey, Oturu, Jaden McDaniels

[Phase 3]

Ok I got:

1a)Wiseman
1b) Deni

Not interested in any other players in this draft. Edwards is very talented but I don’t think he matches the Warriors style of play at all.

[ShayDee]

I understand everyone is putting a ceiling on Deni as a high end role player, but I don’t understand why.

Like your star potential list is so large and all of those prospects have a ton more to work on than Deni does to get to an all star. He led the Israeli national team to 2 gold medals for the u20 tournament. He won mvp the 2nd year. He won mvp for the Israeli league this past year. I understand his role was diminished in the euro league but he’s willing to play a role if needed while he’s obviously capable of doing more if asked.

What’s preventing Deni from being an all star ceiling like jaden McDaniels?

McDaniels has better ball handling and defensive/shooting potential. Can beat his man and just shoot over them. He just needs to learn the game more and get more reps in the gym while getting stronger. Don't let the inefficiency fool you.

Watch on YouTube

Lmao what makes him have have more potential ball handling, defensively and shooting potential? Because you saw some hs mixtape?

He’s as tall as Deni and has 1” wingspan on him. I’m not supposed to worry about his inefficiency but I am for Deni? Okkk

He's a good prospect but we are talking about the #2 pick. It is clearly Between Edwards, Ball and Wiseman, no exceptions. Deni doesn't deserve to jump those 3, unless there is some off court or injury red flag issues coming from them. They all have really high potential and can be dominant in this game and you use the excuse Deni can do more but will settle for a role, the same can be said for either of those 3 players.

[TB]

I always think of Perry Jones when I see the current projections on Jaden McDaniels. Top 10 High School recruit, showed glimpses as a freshman, lots of people thought Jones was a steal late 1st.... then he sorta just disappeared in the NBA.

Similar type of player when it comes to size, role, production. Obviously both had/have tremendous potential, but I can't help but think of Jones trajectory when considering Jaden.

[wco81]

Finesse perimeter players? And then you say they’re just skilled and tough ... sounds like you have some type of cognitive dissonance going on.

Jokic and Luka are tough. But the rest of them? Name some others then.

Few of them are great defenders because they simply lack the physical attributes like quickness.

Kirilenko

Tough Dragić. Also Deni is half Serbian from his dads side who played professional basketball

OK, so a couple more.

But out of all the international players who've come into the league, you're talking a total of 4?

I'm sure we could come up with more but overall it's a small percentage.

[Onus]

McDaniels has better ball handling and defensive/shooting potential. Can beat his man and just shoot over them. He just needs to learn the game more and get more reps in the gym while getting stronger. Don't let the inefficiency fool you.

Watch on YouTube

Lmao what makes him have have more potential ball handling, defensively and shooting potential? Because you saw some hs mixtape?

He’s as tall as Deni and has 1” wingspan on him. I’m not supposed to worry about his inefficiency but I am for Deni? Okkk

He's a good prospect but we are talking about the #2 pick. It is clearly Between Edwards, Ball and Wiseman, no exceptions. Deni doesn't deserve to jump those 3, unless there is some off court or injury red flag issues coming from them. They all have really high potential and can be dominant in this game and you use the excuse Deni can do more but will settle for a role, the same can be said for either of those 3 players.

Ok great that wasn’t what you responded to but we can change course on the topic.

Lamelo has vision and passing but he can’t score. Maybe he’s a taller rondo? That’s not bad, I can see the upside.

Edwards has explosiveness but he likes to shoot which he isn’t really great at. I can see the upside.

Wiseman has height and length that are elite. I can see the upside.

Deni is 6’9” and can run pick and roll, make good decisions and run an offense? How many 6’9” players can do that? And then you add in Steph which will allow him to basically be in transition and attack 4v3 and that’s where Deni excels in transition. I can see the upside

Actually look at his shot chart in this article

https://stats.nba.com/articles/2020-nba-draft-profile-deni-avdija/

Money from the corner 3s and around the basket

[Onus]

Jokic and Luka are tough. But the rest of them? Name some others then.

Few of them are great defenders because they simply lack the physical attributes like quickness.

Kirilenko

Tough Dragić. Also Deni is half Serbian from his dads side who played professional basketball

Are we just naming tough? Saruanas, detlef, nurkic, nocioni, Gallinari,
OK, so a couple more.

But out of all the international players who've come into the league, you're talking a total of 4?

I'm sure we could come up with more but overall it's a small percentage.

Are we just naming tough?

Saruanas, Sabonis, detlef, nurkic, petrovic, kukoc

This kid has competitive fire. He ain’t bender

[ShayDee]

Lmao what makes him have have more potential ball handling, defensively and shooting potential? Because you saw some hs mixtape?

He’s as tall as Deni and has 1” wingspan on him. I’m not supposed to worry about his inefficiency but I am for Deni? Okkk

He's a good prospect but we are talking about the #2 pick. It is clearly Between Edwards, Ball and Wiseman, no exceptions. Deni doesn't deserve to jump those 3, unless there is some off court or injury red flag issues coming from them. They all have really high potential and can be dominant in this game and you use the excuse Deni can do more but will settle for a role, the same can be said for either of those 3 players.

Ok great that wasn’t what you responded to but we can change course on the topic.

Lamelo has vision and passing but he can’t score. Maybe he’s a taller rondo? That’s not bad, I can see the upside.

Edwards has explosiveness but he likes to shoot which he isn’t really great at. I can see the upside.

Wiseman has height and length that are elite. I can see the upside.

Deni is 6’9” and can run pick and roll, make good decisions and run an offense? How many 6’9” players can do that? And then you add in Steph which will allow him to basically be in transition and attack 4v3 and that’s where Deni excels in transition. I can see the upside

Actually look at his shot chart in this article

https://stats.nba.com/articles/2020-nba-draft-profile-deni-avdija/

Money from the corner 3s and around the basket

I'm not arguing Deni will not be a good player. Star potential should be used for top lottery picks, in this draft top 5 picks. You wouldn't take Culver over RJ Barrent, Culver in college could run pnr an do all what you say. Not sure you would take Shai over Ayton or JJJ the 2 way + rim protection/anchor at the 5 potential is just too much to pass up. Even if people are claiming this is a wings/ballhander league now.

Especially a big that can dribble, block shots and have shooting touch. Since the league is changing, that is the next type of dominant player. That combination is soo rare in the league. Players like KD, Vucevic, Jokic, Porzingins, Towns, Gasol(younger), AD, jjj, Christian Wood, Bagley, lesser extent Bam and Giannis, who just won back to back mvps by the way, just a handful of players that getting huge minutes now because of the versatility they bring on both ends. It is just very very hard to guard and causes defensive issue for the other teams

I don't want this to be a long post, Deni has some potential but not more than the top 3, their floor is about equal given what they all bring and you should always take BPA. Bagley has potential, doesn't mean take him over Luka just because he fits more and has a higher floor for what the team does now. Weak draft or not you shouldn't be doing that sort of thing. If we want Deni we should trade down. Not justifiable at 2 or 3

I mean at the end of all this it's all opinion based and we will see in a few years, everyone has their big board of who are the best players. My top 10 are

Wiseman
Edwards
Ball
Okoro
Toppin
Cole Anthony
Oturu
Deni
Vassell
Bane

It could change though, I just put random names of players for now given what they can do and what I believe they will improve on and will also be sort of dominant at their role

[ShayDee]

Watch on YouTube

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I believe Wiseman falls in the latter category of which is a shot creating/making big man that will be difficult to guard at his peak. He is not a DeAndre Jordan/Capella/Whiteside/Drummond/Gobert who are decent bigs, but lack the ball handling or shooting that Wiseman already has at 19. Lol it's actually pretty amazing that this video pops up when I just made a recent post about big men that can dribble and have shooting touch being dominant lmao. The upside of Wiseman is just very very very silly to pass up

[jason bourne]

What really separates Wiseman from Okongwu? Is it upside?

Wiseman has more upside. Okongwu just defends better currently

In terms of upside, Wiseman is called the elephant in the room. He has the best physical measurements of any big man in the draft. However, can he use it to advantage in the NBA? The biggest question marks remain because Wiseman quit his development and left NBA scouts asking questions. In my opinion, that's a red flag and he's stupid asf:

"he looked incredibly strong in his first few games, the suspension followed by the decision to shut it down leaves scouts and NBA decision makers with a lot less to work with and the question of just how much his game may have tapered off had he played the entire season … He had a reputation in high school of having a motor that ran hot and cold and there were some questions that many wanted to see answered with a full season of intense play … Wiseman showed glimpses in limited action, but he also showed that he is pretty raw in his skill set and overall basketball IQ at the moment … While he is a potentially game-changing defender, he also seems to be a bit jumpy looking to send shots into the stands, and prone to fakes that lead to fouls or compromises the team’s defensive balance on the court … Whether he can be a true weapon as a scorer at the next level remains in question … He did show decent touch at times with fadaways and mid-range jumpshots … But he remains a real question mark whether he’s a guy that can create legitimate offense for himself … He’s not very strong or physical right now, will need to put on more weight and get his lower body strength up to bang in the post with the big boys in the NBA … Shot selection can stand to improve, he seems to settle for fade-away shots and jumpers more than you expect for a guy with his physical and athletic traits … His feel for the game seems decent considering his age and development stage, but at times he does appear rushed and mechanical in the low post getting into his moves, and he needs to work on developing his back to the basket game … His ability to defend out on the perimeter is potentially very good for a big guy, but he has some things to learn fundamentally to realize it (ie playing less upright and not relying solely on his length to make up for being out of position) … Doesn’t seem to project to be an elite level shot creator in the post, which means the situation he lands in will matter that much more to his individual success because others will have to create for him, and teach him the nuances of the offensive game …"

Next, Wiseman was a center while Okongwu was a PF in college. Okongwu was close to Wiseman on offense and sprinted past him on defense. I'm not completely sold on Wiseman wanting to play D. In the three games, he showed he could block shots and is somewhat a rim protector, but didn't show he could clog the paint. He can get out to guard the perimeter. Inside, Wiseman could be a foul machine. Okongwu was better at protecting the rim and he, too, isn't a paint clogger, but can be a help defender.

++++++++

If you look at their college stats, Wiseman excels at PER and lob dunks, but we know that's a misleading stat. Okongwu is much superior in terms of defense and having more of an overall offensive game. Wiseman "looks" to better translate his game to the NBA, but still has a lot of question marks because of small sample size. Okongwu appears nice in college, but still has much work ahead of him to translate his game to the NBA. With Okongwu, his game is much more known than Wiseman despite questions about his NBA translation. If Wiseman continued showing what he could do, then no question he would be a solid top 3 pick. Instead we're left with question marks that he could be a bust.

If you haven't checked out the analytics on the two, then look here.

James Wiseman College
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/james-wiseman-1.html#all_players_advanced

Watch on YouTube

NBA comps: Hassan Whiteside/DeAndre Jordan

Onyeka Okongwu College
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/onyeka-okongwu-1.html

Watch on YouTube

NBA comps: John Collins/Montrezl Harrell

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

Having the physical attributes (e.g., long wingspan, 7 footer, 24 inch vertical, etc.) doesn't mean **** when you don't have the actual basketball skills and intangibles to back it up. Deni makes it up with his high bball IQ and effort for his physical shortcomings. I'd say he will be a serviceable role player like Joel Ingles. Question is do we need more role players, especially when the league expects us to draft a game-changing player or at least good player at #2?

Wiseman has all the physical attributes to be great, but also needs to develop bball smarts, as well. Through 3 collegiate games, I'm unsure; He'll just need to prove himself a bit at the Combine, individual workouts and scrimmages. Otherwise, I'd say he's those type of players that has the "IT" factor, but won't amount to anything if he doesn't put in the work to really learn the game.

Thinking high-bust potential like Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic and Hasheem Thabeet at this moment due to all the question marks. But, his career will be saved due to physical gifts to rebound, block shots, and overall defense, in the mold of Javale McGee, DeAndre Jordan, and Andre Drummond.

[ShayDee]

Having the physical attributes (e.g., long wingspan, 7 footer, 24 inch vertical, etc.) doesn't mean **** when you don't have the actual basketball skills and intangibles to back it up. Deni makes it up with his high bball IQ and effort for his physical shortcomings. I'd say he will be a serviceable role player like Joel Ingles. Question is do we need more role players, especially when the league expects us to draft a game-changing player or at least good player at #2?

Wiseman has all the physical attributes to be great, but also needs to develop bball smarts, as well. Through 3 collegiate games, I'm unsure; He'll just need to prove himself a bit at the Combine, individual workouts and scrimmages. Otherwise, I'd say he's those type of players that has the "IT" factor, but won't amount to anything if he doesn't put in the work to really learn the game. Thinking high-bust potential like Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic and Hasheem Thabeet at this moment due to all the question marks.

That's why I want Bane here. Has the smarts, Skills, intangibles and I think he is the rookie that will help us the most. Way more than Deni or Wismean or Edwards or anyone in the top 10. Wiseman has the skills, it's the basketball smarts and intangibles that are in question. What isn't though is he is one of the most intelligent prospects in the draft. So it is up to him how much he wants to develop the other aspects of the game

[wco81]

Yeah those videos of him working on his midrange game with trainers or scrimmaging against nobodies where again he's not showing any kind of inside game doesn't give you much confidence.

He should be in the gym getting stronger and showing some reps with jump hooks or other moves in the paint.

Maybe he's doing so but we're only seeing him dribbling between the legs and doing midrange pull up jumpers.

That's the wrong kind of message to send to teams interested in him in playing inside.

He could become an elite 3-point shooter like KAT early in his career but then he might have the same problems as KAT, no defensive presence, not a difference maker as far as leading his team into at least 2-3 rounds of the playoffs.