5 Ways to Improve the Offense

[Indeed]

Regular season is just different than the playoffs. Run and gun us almost always taken away. We need penetraters like Butler who can just get into the paint at will. It may sound strange, but TD is one guy that has that mixture of speed, ball handle, and strength to do that. He just need more experience in reading defences and maybe a pull up mid range. I think thats what makes him an interesting prospect.

Totally agree with you on Davis and it is harder to play up-tempo.

My issue isn't so much the lack of fastbreaks (I knew they would be limited), but the fact that we had no motion in our actual half-court sets. It was basically Gasol/Ibaka setting up at the top of the key for screens/top of the key 3s. OG setting up in the corner and Pascal either setting up in the corner or going into the post for a post-up. Then Lowry and/or Fred looking to either take their man 1-on-1 or shoot the 3. It became super predictable and easy to defend.

Pascal struggled all series long because he wasn't ever put in a position to succeed. The Celtics wanted us to use him the post because it was easy to defend. Instead of posting him up, we should have had him flexing off screens and driving to the basket in ways that allowed him to only take one or two dribbles (less chance to cough it up) and be at the rim for layups. I think it would've been much better than force-feeding him in the way we did.

Look at what the Celtics did to us (drive and kick to an open shooter or for a dunk) or what the Nuggets did to the Clippers (back cuts and using the screens for allowing drives to the basket). It all starts with making the defense rotate and move. Something we failed at. Which makes no sense. And as you said, Davis (and I'd say, Thomas, too) showed enough to have more playing time and we could've used the off-the-ball movement.

I think Davis will need to add a consistent pull up 3 like VanVleet or Lowry to make use of his explosiveness. And advance handle in cross over, changing speed / direction, hesitation moves, etc. would be a key for him to get to the rim instead of mid-range pull-up. Furthermore, better defense in avoiding fouls would be the key for him to stay on the floor, silly fouls such as reaching-in instead of playing good defense with active hands / poke away balls from driving are two different things.

As for half-court offense, definitely we will be limited on fastbreaks, while more motion requires better catch and shoot players who can dribble for it to work more efficiently, perhaps something our wing players can improve this off season. As for Gasol/Ibaka, those are not setup, but teams want us to beat them that way, so a 3+D Centre is now much more important to teams.

As for the cut you mentioned, one of the video explained that the cut comes from double team. We used to have them when Siakam was being doubled. In the last series, he was not doubled, and the cut would be defended. Meanwhile, Celtics isn't doing any better against our defense, the real difference is 3 point shooting, where our guards in VanVleet and Lowry are not able to make their pull up 3s, and our bigs in Siakam and Gasol are also not able to make any 3s. That is 4 out of 5 from our starting lineup with a way below average 3 point shooting. Then Smart killed us from the 3s.

[Indeed]

Resign Ibaka and FVV. Run it back, kind of, and if we're not top 5 in the NBA then see if trades are available for any of our older players around the deadline. Younger guys get more development in a semi winning mold and we switch out some of our older assets hoping to keep the gap between rebuild years and contention down. If no one shows serious promise after next year then we blow it up, if we can't swing for Giannis.

So I guess improving offense will count on OG, and Davis becoming better contributers.

I think that wold be good as a temporary plan in waiting for Giannis.

Meanwhile, if our offense failed with focusing on transition, I wonder how much Giannis would help us on our case.
Eventually, it will still be up to our players (plus draft) to improve our half court offense. As I asked above in what we think about the Bucks, having Giannis without 3 point shooting may not make us a better offensive team.

[Indeed]

Ok, so I'm really liking the Miami idea. Unlike the other conference finalists, we can reasonably approximate their personnel (harder to replicate LeBron-Davis, Murray-Jokic, etc.). Looking at their most used playoff units:

• Dragic-Butler-Robinson-Crowder-Adebayo
• Dragic-Herro-Butler-Crowder-Adebayo

Can't the current roster approximate these lineups? OG-Siakam frontcourt vs Crowder-Adebayo => feels like a wash at worst. I think they have a fair bit more length at the 1-3, but we can pretty much match their talent, shooting, etc.

Mapping their top 8 by playoff minutes:

1. Adebayo => Siakam
2. Butler => Lowry
3. Dragic => Powell
4. Herro => Davis
5. Crowder => OG
6. Robinson => Thomas
7. Iguodala => ?? (free agent? pick?)
8. Olynyk => Ibaka

Some assumptions there: resign Ibaka but not FVV or Gasol, Nurse begins to trust Davis and Thomas a lot more, and Nurse becomes comfortable with a smaller frontcourt.

If those things happen, the biggest need becomes wing size -- an Iguodala type, but that player might be higher up the rotation list for the Raptors.

Don't you want to wait until the series is over before you comment on the successful rate of each team?
Would you consider the Bucks model before the bubble? And do you think there are other factors that impact the game (such as coach or referee)?

I wouldn’t consider their model at all because we don’t have the personnel to run it. On the other hand we have instinctual cutters and off ball movement guys that would thrive in a offense that’s predicated on back door cuts, slips, split cuts, etc. it’s what makes Miami hard to defend.

I hope the offense gets a little revamped or we bring in Chris Finch who Nurse initially wanted as an assistant.

I just explained above on another post. To make cuts/slips work, we need sharp shooters or someone being double team. Last series we didn't get double team by anyone. Furthermore, VanVleet and Lowry weren't shooting well, missed a lot of pull up 3s that made them dangerous, plus Siakam and Gasol were horrible from 3s. Therefore, we basically have not enough 3 point shooters to make defenders away of our cuts, they can simply guard the paint.

[Wannabe MEP]

Don't you want to wait until the series is over before you comment on the successful rate of each team?
Would you consider the Bucks model before the bubble? And do you think there are other factors that impact the game (such as coach or referee)?

I wouldn’t consider their model at all because we don’t have the personnel to run it. On the other hand we have instinctual cutters and off ball movement guys that would thrive in a offense that’s predicated on back door cuts, slips, split cuts, etc. it’s what makes Miami hard to defend.

I hope the offense gets a little revamped or we bring in Chris Finch who Nurse initially wanted as an assistant.

I just explained above on another post. To make cuts/slips work, we need sharp shooters or someone being double team. Last series we didn't get double team by anyone. Furthermore, VanVleet and Lowry weren't shooting well, missed a lot of pull up 3s that made them dangerous, plus Siakam and Gasol were horrible from 3s. Therefore, we basically have not enough 3 point shooters to make defenders away of our cuts, they can simply guard the paint.

Are you saying that Miami has something that we don't have? What in particular? In other words, are you suggesting that it is a personnel thing, or how we use our personnel?

I think Miami is doing two things that we didn't:

• going small
• playing their shooters

We didn't go small (until really really late), and we left some of our best shooters on the bench.

[Chandan]

we need someone who plays above the rim like the old Vince Carter.
time for a new era.

[HiJiNX]

The Raptors need two perimeter players that can consistently get into the paint to collapse the D. FVV is too short for that and not at all adept at kicking the ball out of the paint, Lowry is too old, Siakam needs a screen and can’t drive left, OG hasn’t had the touches, TD makes too many bad decisions in the paint, Norm can only drive off the catch etc.

Nurse did well to get our offence to perform as well as it did because we are really lacking in the kind of perimeter player that can get the ball into the paint. Most of when our offence looked good against Boston was when we were getting the ball into the paint, which we couldn’t do consistently enough. That said, if we had played Ibaka and Thomas more I think we would have had more success at the dribble kickouts which is essentially our half court offence when it’s working.

[Purple Forever]

1. Siakim needs to be stronger and more assertive. Against Boston, Siakim was getting hit, held and generally pushed out of the post. He needs to get stronger so he can push through it. Also when the shots were not falling for Lowry and Van Vleet and the Celtics were on a run Siakim needs to demand the ball and drive it down the lane. Needs to make the refs make a call, or dunk it down there throats.

2. OG needs to be more a part of the offence, and drive the lane. OG needs to be our second driving option. We need to get away from the Fred layups and defer those to OG dunks. But he needs to stop the finger rolls and floaters and go through people.

3. Siakim needs to watch Jokic all summer long on tape. Jokic is decisive, and reads double teams, always knowing where the pass will go - he plays chess out there. Siakim tends to panic, and as a result turns the ball over.

4. Need more 1-4 pick and roll. I know Lowry likes 1-5 PNR so he can switch onto the centre, but we need Siakim to be involved so he can get those drives. When he stays on the perimeter he gets the ball too far from the basket and we get turnovers.

5. Less bouncing, more passing. This team is at its best when the ball moves. Too many times against Boston we had individuals trying to make plays, not a team.

[Wannabe MEP]

5. Less bouncing, more passing. This team is at its best when the ball moves. Too many times against Boston we had individuals trying to make plays, not a team.

I think that was largely a function of Boston 1) preventing transition, 2) not doubling, and 3) switching a lot.

1. Siakim needs to be stronger and more assertive. Against Boston, Siakim was getting hit, held and generally pushed out of the post. He needs to get stronger so he can push through it. Also when the shots were not falling for Lowry and Van Vleet and the Celtics were on a run Siakim needs to demand the ball and drive it down the lane. Needs to make the refs make a call, or dunk it down there throats.

3. Siakim needs to watch Jokic all summer long on tape. Jokic is decisive, and reads double teams, always knowing where the pass will go - he plays chess out there. Siakim tends to panic, and as a result turns the ball over.

I don't disagree, but I think the #1 thing for him to work on is high release jumper, a la Tatum.

2. OG needs to be more a part of the offence, and drive the lane. OG needs to be our second driving option. We need to get away from the Fred layups and defer those to OG dunks. But he needs to stop the finger rolls and floaters and go through people.

4. Need more 1-4 pick and roll. I know Lowry likes 1-5 PNR so he can switch onto the centre, but we need Siakim to be involved so he can get those drives. When he stays on the perimeter he gets the ball too far from the basket and we get turnovers.

What about OG-Siakam as the 4-5, and involve both in the PNR some (depending on matchups)?

[Purple Forever]

You could do a 4-5 PNR, but then Siakim is likely initiating and would need a tighter handle - trying to handle out at the 3pt line is what causes his turnovers. He needs to either initiate much lower, or be the roll guy. And Ibaka or OG are also turnover prone trying to handle that far out.

[Wannabe MEP]

You could do a 4-5 PNR, but then Siakim is likely initiating and would need a tighter handle - trying to handle out at the 3pt line is what causes his turnovers. He needs to either initiate much lower, or be the roll guy. And Ibaka or OG are also turnover prone trying to handle that far out.

Sorry, that wasn't very clear. I meant 1-4 and 1-5, but now with OG and Siakam as the 4 and 5. So, finding ways to involve those two, as you were talking about, but still pitting Lowry against the other team's 5 regularly.

[lebron stopper]

Regular season is just different than the playoffs. Run and gun us almost always taken away. We need penetraters like Butler who can just get into the paint at will. It may sound strange, but TD is one guy that has that mixture of speed, ball handle, and strength to do that. He just need more experience in reading defences and maybe a pull up mid range. I think thats what makes him an interesting prospect.

You do need a slasher in the playoffs, and Powell and Davis were the only slashers on this team. Problem is, Davis got like zero minutes in the postseason, and Powell completely fell off in the bubble. So now the team is relying on Lowry and VanVleet to attack the paint and make plays consistently, which the Celtics happily lived with because neither player is reliable in that regard. (This isn't even mentioning the fact that almost everyone on the team basically refuses to take floaters or mid-range shots, which is a no-no if you're a slasher.)

My issue isn't so much the lack of fastbreaks (I knew they would be limited), but the fact that we had no motion in our actual half-court sets. It was basically Gasol/Ibaka setting up at the top of the key for screens/top of the key 3s. OG setting up in the corner and Pascal either setting up in the corner or going into the post for a post-up. Then Lowry and/or Fred looking to either take their man 1-on-1 or shoot the 3. It became super predictable and easy to defend.

Pascal struggled all series long because he wasn't ever put in a position to succeed. The Celtics wanted us to use him the post because it was easy to defend. Instead of posting him up, we should have had him flexing off screens and driving to the basket in ways that allowed him to only take one or two dribbles (less chance to cough it up) and be at the rim for layups. I think it would've been much better than force-feeding him in the way we did.

Look at what the Celtics did to us (drive and kick to an open shooter or for a dunk) or what the Nuggets did to the Clippers (back cuts and using the screens for allowing drives to the basket). It all starts with making the defense rotate and move. Something we failed at. Which makes no sense. And as you said, Davis (and I'd say, Thomas, too) showed enough to have more playing time and we could've used the off-the-ball movement.

Honestly, the Celtics defense pretty much neutered the Raptors' (already mediocre) half-court offense and ground it to a halt. I'm not sure there was much Nurse could do other than double down on defense. The Raptors relied on teams doubling Siakam to start up their ball movement and motion offense. This is to make up for the fact that there are very few slashers in the main rotation, as only Powell (horrible against the Celtics) and Davis (didn't play against the Celtics) can attack the basket reliably and draw in defenses to make plays. The Celtics didn't double team Siakam, snuffed out his only move in the post, and forced him to play through the chest against Brown and Smart. They were also more than happy to leave Gasol and Ibaka open to cramp the Raptors' offense even more, by having a help defender on standby if the Raptors managed to initiate some action offensively.

Raptors need a bucket getter FROM one of their young players.

This can be: Powell, OG or Siakam - hell is can be Terrence Davis.

When the Raptors absolutely needed a bucket - the only player who could do it this year was Lowry.

Last year we had Kawhi, Lowry and Siakam all able but also be decoys.

I don't care if it's from 2/3 or a set play. When games are tight, you need to make buckets against tough defenses. Watching Butler and Dragic - yes Miami has good defense but they can also put the ball in the net when it matters.

Raptors were definitely missing a slasher or shot creator who was a threat to attack the basket and shoot the ball and make plays using his gravity. Lowry can no longer be that guy consistently, and VanVleet is too physically limited to be that guy. I was hoping Powell could be that guy, but he regressed badly against the Celtics and disappeared when the Raptors needed him most. I'm not sure Anunoby or Siakam can be reliable perimeter players at this point, but Siakam would benefit a lot from playing against opposing PFs instead of opposing SFs like he currently does. Davis has some potential to be a slasher or shot creator and he flashed some nifty passing skill here and there throughout the season.

[Indeed]

1. Siakim needs to be stronger and more assertive. Against Boston, Siakim was getting hit, held and generally pushed out of the post. He needs to get stronger so he can push through it. Also when the shots were not falling for Lowry and Van Vleet and the Celtics were on a run Siakim needs to demand the ball and drive it down the lane. Needs to make the refs make a call, or dunk it down there throats.

2. OG needs to be more a part of the offence, and drive the lane. OG needs to be our second driving option. We need to get away from the Fred layups and defer those to OG dunks. But he needs to stop the finger rolls and floaters and go through people.

3. Siakim needs to watch Jokic all summer long on tape. Jokic is decisive, and reads double teams, always knowing where the pass will go - he plays chess out there. Siakim tends to panic, and as a result turns the ball over.

4. Need more 1-4 pick and roll. I know Lowry likes 1-5 PNR so he can switch onto the centre, but we need Siakim to be involved so he can get those drives. When he stays on the perimeter he gets the ball too far from the basket and we get turnovers.

5. Less bouncing, more passing. This team is at its best when the ball moves. Too many times against Boston we had individuals trying to make plays, not a team.

1. Not sure I am seeing the same thing on those games. Siakam didn't get pushed out of the post. He was getting offense foul call when backing down, because he is too big and strong. The refs are making a call as he was aggressive, but it was the other way around. As for driving down the lane, not sure if you really watched the game. He was given all the space for him to take the long 2s and 3, then 3 or 4 people meet him at the paint.

2. We tried to involve OG on the offensive end, but it was a mixed result. A few turnovers when he was alone under the basket, or missing gimmes and got out rebounded. Game 6 or 7 were better, he missed and able to get his own rebound, as he made quicker decision than the help defense came. Otherwise, he didn't get any open spot up 3, and his ball handling got him a few turnovers. So I am not sure how finger rolls and floaters would help when his problem is finishing at rim and securing the ball when driving

3) Siakam is not the type of playmaking big, so I am not sure about this suggestion. Neither him nor OG should be the C, as they are not a shot blocker, Celtics were driving to the rim when we go small.

4) We have 1-4 PnR (PnP to be exact), but they left Siakam open. And I really don't wish Siakam to be involved, as he was not playing well, and we came back because we focus him on the defensive end.

5) When we are not shooting well, the off ball cuts are ignored by the opposing team. I think this is a result of us not shooting well instead of we are not playing like a team.

[Wannabe MEP]

Neither him nor OG should be the C, as they are not a shot blocker, Celtics were driving to the rim when we go small.

Your eyes deceive you. The numbers say we were dramatically better, overall, when we went small against the Celtics.

[alan_156]

Only one way to improve the offense, resign Masai, everything else will take care of itself.

[Indeed]

Neither him nor OG should be the C, as they are not a shot blocker, Celtics were driving to the rim when we go small.

Your eyes deceive you. The numbers say we were dramatically better, overall, when we went small against the Celtics.

This video was posted earlier from someone, and there are few coaches youtube explained about the series, but I am not sure you understand or watched enough of those coaching videos, as your previous comments (from the start) do not suggest you really understand our issues, and the purpose of those counters.

The reason we go small (from these coaches video), because Walker was picking our C and score at ease. But that does not mean other teams would be the same (when our box+1 works better), and it does not mean other players won't score against us.

https://youtu.be/CnQwRYNQ_J0?t=3396

[Wannabe MEP]

This video was posted earlier from someone, and there are few coaches youtube explained about the series, but I am not sure you understand or watched enough of those coaching videos, as your previous comments (from the start) do not suggest you really understand our issues, and the purpose of those counters.

Perhaps it's you who doesn't understand basic math. The math is on the side of going small. Do you need me to break it down for you? The Raptors played losing basketball when they were big. They played winning basketball when they went small. It's just simple math. Net rating. Perhaps there are some nuances to the "whys", but you seem to misunderstand the fundamental reality of the numbers.

What you're saying is like, "I know the scoreboard says the Heat beat the Bucks in that series, but the Bucks were really better because I watched a youtube video that said so..."

[Tor_Raps]

We need a true number 1 option. Case closed lol.

[ImaBeatDatAzz]

imagine if harden randomly comes out and says, "i wana try winning with the raptors system and see if i can be king of the north there"
would fvv/harden/og/siakam/ibaka win a chip? i think so

[Wannabe MEP]

Neither him nor OG should be the C, as they are not a shot blocker, Celtics were driving to the rim when we go small.

Your eyes deceive you. The numbers say we were dramatically better, overall, when we went small against the Celtics.

This video was posted earlier from someone, and there are few coaches youtube explained about the series, but I am not sure you understand or watched enough of those coaching videos, as your previous comments (from the start) do not suggest you really understand our issues, and the purpose of those counters.

The reason we go small (from these coaches video), because Walker was picking our C and score at ease. But that does not mean other teams would be the same (when our box+1 works better), and it does not mean other players won't score against us.

https://youtu.be/CnQwRYNQ_J0?t=3396

Siakam-Gasol frontcourt vs Celtics:

• Offensive Rating: 99.3
• Defensive Rating: 105.1
• Net Rating: -5.8

Siakam-Ibaka frontcourt:

• Offensive Rating: 101.2
• Defensive Rating: 109.6
• Net Rating: -8.4

OG-Siakam frontcourt (no Ibaka or Gasol):

• Offensive Rating: 109.4
• Defensive Rating: 90.6
• Net Rating: +18.8

But...random anecdotal moments from a youtube video??

[Indeed]

Your eyes deceive you. The numbers say we were dramatically better, overall, when we went small against the Celtics.

This video was posted earlier from someone, and there are few coaches youtube explained about the series, but I am not sure you understand or watched enough of those coaching videos, as your previous comments (from the start) do not suggest you really understand our issues, and the purpose of those counters.

The reason we go small (from these coaches video), because Walker was picking our C and score at ease. But that does not mean other teams would be the same (when our box+1 works better), and it does not mean other players won't score against us.

https://youtu.be/CnQwRYNQ_J0?t=3396

Siakam-Gasol frontcourt vs Celtics:

• Offensive Rating: 99.3
• Defensive Rating: 105.1
• Net Rating: -5.8

Siakam-Ibaka frontcourt:

• Offensive Rating: 101.2
• Defensive Rating: 109.6
• Net Rating: -8.4

OG-Siakam frontcourt (no Ibaka or Gasol):

• Offensive Rating: 109.4
• Defensive Rating: 90.6
• Net Rating: +18.8

But...random anecdotal moments from a youtube video??

Lol, thank you for cherry picking. I would counter that the best 5 man lineup was with Ibaka.
Lowry-Ibaka-Siakam-VanVleet-Anunoby: mins 32
ORtg - 114.3
DRtg - 108.8
Net: 5.5

Lowry-Powell-Siakam-VanVleet-Anunoby: mins 32
ORtg - 90.2
DRtg - 85
Net: 5.2

Those are the only positive NetRtg, but again, those youtube aren't wrong, they explained that probably Nurse wants to drop the DRtg (defensive adjustment) and probably right. As for your topic is to improve on ORtg, then I am not sure you want to continue with your point of small lineup, it seems you are countering yourself.

Meanwhile, dismissing other analysis shows you are not trying see from others. Good luck, don't really want to response to you anymore.

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Playoffs&OpponentTeamID=1610612738&TeamID=1610612761&CF=MIN*G*5&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1