How Good is Jimmy Butler?

2018C3 · Post #321 » by **2018C3** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:55 am

The difference were now seeing, Is jimmy is a vet and also the star player of the roster. In Miami there are only three guys older than him. Andre Iguodala and Udonis Haslem are both older, and have each had championship success, but are pretty much cut from the same work hard / get results work ethic. that Jimmy displays.

When Jimmy took over the Bulls roster, and established himself as the best player on the team in 2014, he had eight guys older than him, and some of those had a little bit of success before he established himself as the teams alpha. Prior to this Rose had his own guys, and Jimmy's rise caused some conflict, both on the team, and with some fans.

I remember Jimmy first started taking responsibility for losses in the media, saying he should have played better. I also remember Jimmy saying he was a point guard (A position at the time Rose held). All of this was controversial at the time. But even back then he was a man on a mission.

Early on A reporter once asked Taj about Jimmy Butlers humbleness, and Taj said something along the lines "Don't let this guy fool you, he is as confident as they come".

Looking back, its almost hard to remember Jimmy being a humble guy, at some point he just flipped a switch, and said this is the guy I now am. It changed all changed almost instantly.

From the start of 2013 to the end of 2014 he rewrote his story on the guy who he became.

Stratmaster · Post #322 » by **Stratmaster** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:41 am

Chi town wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
Jvaughn wrote:
I clearly said he wasn't MJ. The comparison was because they both rubbed teammates the wrong way with their competitive nature. They're nowhere near comparable as players. Jimmy didn't all of a sudden just start bring super nice to players. He went to an organization that has the correct culture and support that fit in with his drive. He's on an unselfish team with hard workers who are willing to put in the effort and time that he does. You only hear bad stories about Jimmy when he's dealing with organizations and players who aren't willing to do what it takes to win. That was my point.
I didn't say you called him MJ, I said don't compare him to MJ.

Jimmy is likely growing up, and also is smart enough to realize that if he did in Miami what he did 3 previous times he likely was done having any chance of ever joining a champion level team.

But, I get your position. My only point is Jimmy rubs people the wrong way because he is an ****. People don't dislike players for wanting to win. They dislike players who are pricks.

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Good to see you back Strat! Hope to see more from you when new coach and draft rolls around. Your input is great!

Thanks! Good to be welcomed!

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Stratmaster · Post #323 » by **Stratmaster** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:45 am

Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
Jvaughn wrote:
I clearly said he wasn't MJ. The comparison was because they both rubbed teammates the wrong way with their competitive nature. They're nowhere near comparable as players. Jimmy didn't all of a sudden just start bring super nice to players. He went to an organization that has the correct culture and support that fit in with his drive. He's on an unselfish team with hard workers who are willing to put in the effort and time that he does. You only hear bad stories about Jimmy when he's dealing with organizations and players who aren't willing to do what it takes to win. That was my point.
I didn't say you called him MJ, I said don't compare him to MJ.

Jimmy is likely growing up, and also is smart enough to realize that if he did in Miami what he did 3 previous times he likely was done having any chance of ever joining a champion level team.

But, I get your position. My only point is Jimmy rubs people the wrong way because he is an ****. People don't dislike players for wanting to win. They dislike players who are pricks.

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Jordan was an even bigger prick than Butler though.

He punched Kerr in the face and riled teammates worse than Butler did.

Jordan was the GOAT. When it comes to the entire pack he was the alpha. Jimmy is nowhere near that. He would have been 4th fiddle on that team, much less the league as a whole, much less the entire history of players. But yeah. Jordan was an ass too.

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troza · Post #324 » by **troza** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:47 am

Stratmaster wrote:
Jordan was the GOAT. When it comes to the entire pack he was the alpha. Jimmy is nowhere near that. He would have been 4th fiddle on that team, much less the league as a whole, much less the entire history of players. But yeah. Jordan was an ass too.

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Funny thing is that it worked. We had a team that was good on the floor but was mentally stronger than any other team.

We actually need some player that demands the best out of everyone to change the culture of the Bulls.

Post #325 » by **Ice Man** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:36 pm

Jimmy Butler in the 2017 playoffs took 18 shots per game, with 45% of them being at the rim. In the 2020 playoffs he's taking 12 shots per game, with 66% at the rim.

The reason seems pretty straightforward to me. In the 2017 playoffs his teammates couldn't shoot so he had to take a lot of jumpers, although he's not a great jump shooter. In the 2020 playoffs his teammates can shoot so he's barely taking jumpers at all, leaving that task to them.

If he took 6 more shots per game in 2020 he still wouldn't be taking a lot of shots for a star, he would be scoring more, and his criticis (he still has some) wouldn't talking as much about how yeah he is a leader but he's too passive offensively and doesn't score enough to be a true star. But that wouldn't be the best thing for the team.

I want players who think like that. I don't want Russ, no matter what his talent, or Paul George, or Kyrie, or any of the rest of those alleged stars who can't figure out how to blend into a team situation. You win with guys doing what they do best, and not trying to do what they don't do best, because you know, they are stars and they have the right to do that. No they don't have the right.

johnnyvann840 · Post #326 » by **johnnyvann840** » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:54 pm

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29947115/nba-playoffs-evolving-conversation-surrounding-jimmy-butler

PaKii94 · Post #327 » by **PaKii94** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:14 am

The leader of a finals team.

The 6ft Hurdle · Post #328 » by **The 6ft Hurdle** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:19 am

Definitely rooting for Butler, though it feels like those Rose-led team teams against the Cheatles at the bottom of the decade.

weneeda2guard · Post #329 » by **weneeda2guard** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:19 am

PaKii94 wrote:The leader of a finals team.

Remember when they said he wasn't worth the money and wasn't a 1 on a title contending team?

Yea good times.

Smh

FriedRise · Post #330 » by **FriedRise** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:19 am

To choose Fred Hoiberg and those Gar-scouted younger and more athletic young guys over Jimmy... man.

ThisGuyFawkes · Post #331 » by **ThisGuyFawkes** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:20 am

PaKii94 wrote:The leader of a finals team.

I hope he wins it.

Post #332 » by **HomoSapien** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:50 am

Well, he did it. Congratulations to Jimmy. Thanks for nothing, Gar.

TheGOATRises007 · Post #333 » by **TheGOATRises007** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:01 am

The final nail in the coffin in how badly GarPax were towards the end.

Post #334 » by **HomoSapien** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:04 am

FriedRise wrote:To choose Fred Hoiberg and those Gar-scouted younger and more athletic young guys over Jimmy... man.

Fairly good chance that neither get NBA jobs ever again.

Hangtime84 · Post #335 » by **Hangtime84** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:13 am

HomoSapien wrote:
FriedRise wrote:To choose Fred Hoiberg and those Gar-scouted younger and more athletic young guys over Jimmy... man.

Fairly good chance that neither get NBA jobs ever again.

Pax is done with the ****.

Gar is full of the ****.

Post #336 » by **Ice Man** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:13 am

HomoSapien wrote:
FriedRise wrote:To choose Fred Hoiberg and those Gar-scouted younger and more athletic young guys over Jimmy... man.

Fairly good chance that neither get NBA jobs ever again.

I can't imagine anybody ever hiring Gar. Paxson, maybe. But Gar's resume is pretty light, especially for a guy whose reputation is tarred by feuding with a Coach of the Year, whom he chased out of the organization so that he could hire a failure from his crony university.

Post #337 » by **RedBulls23** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:18 am

Ice Man wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
FriedRise wrote:To choose Fred Hoiberg and those Gar-scouted younger and more athletic young guys over Jimmy... man.

Fairly good chance that neither get NBA jobs ever again.

I can't imagine anybody ever hiring Gar. Paxson, maybe. But Gar's resume is pretty light, especially for a guy whose reputation is tarred by feuding with a Coach of the Year, whom he chased out of the organization so that he could hire a failure from his crony university.

Nah, ain't nobody hiring Pax ever again either.

Pax spear headed the rebuild, and was the biggest Jim Boylen supporter out there. It's been painfully obvious for a while now that he doesn't have any idea how to build a team in the modern NBA.

Post #338 » by **HomoSapien** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:18 am

Ice Man wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
FriedRise wrote:To choose Fred Hoiberg and those Gar-scouted younger and more athletic young guys over Jimmy... man.

Fairly good chance that neither get NBA jobs ever again.

I can't imagine anybody ever hiring Gar. Paxson, maybe. But Gar's resume is pretty light, especially for a guy whose reputation is tarred by feuding with a Coach of the Year, whom he chased out of the organization so that he could hire a failure from his crony university.

I actually meant Gar and Hoiberg. Pax, unfortunately, still has an NBA job for life.

nomorezorro · Post #339 » by **nomorezorro** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:21 am

we had the best player on a finals team in his prime and never even tried to build around him

remarkable!

Post #340 » by **HomoSapien** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:28 am

This is the one moment I actually wish Gar had a job, because I would love for a reporter to be able to ask him about how he royally **** up.