2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[Andi Obst]

Guys, I think it's time to write off Killian Hayes. He clearly won't play for the US national team.

Sure he will since he is James Harden + Damian Lillard. I mean you can keep a future league MVP off the National Team.

Sure, since it's common knowledge that all lead guards are either Kirk Hinrich or Harden/Lillard. There's nothing in between.

[Rose2Boozer]

Thank me later...

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

[MrSparkle]

Thank me later...

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Player-B has better footwork and handles, more advanced passing, actually has defensive highlights, and is doing it against pros. Also has a clean bill of health, not a prime 25-26yo who has missed 130 games in 2 seasons.

[TheSuzerain]

Valentine's foundation of skills is/was quite nice.

But he literally might be the slowest footed perimeter player in the NBA. Couple that with some injury troubles and you have a bust.

I wouldn't be that shocked if he became a decent rotation player though. Just won't be in Chicago.

[Andi Obst]

Is this the "name a draft prospect and a random (former) NBA player" thread now?

[Grodoboldo]

Is this the "name a draft prospect and a random (former) NBA player" thread now?

Yes. You either pick a hall of famer and a player you like or a bum and a player you don't like.
As already shown, they don't have to be anything alike.

[Grodoboldo]

Thank me later...

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Yes, I remember fondly seeing Valentine as a top5 prospect in every board (even #1) and everybody amazed that he dropped to late lottery.

[drosereturn]

Thank me later...

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Player-B has better footwork and handles, more advanced passing, actually has defensive highlights, and is doing it against pros. Also has a clean bill of health, not a prime 25-26yo who has missed 130 games in 2 seasons.

Too much revisionist history there. Val is a bust but Hayes wouldnt be a much better prospect in a weaker draft.
Val had much better playmaking and shooting for him which are key for a guard.
Skill was never an issue for him. In fact he was too skilled he got lazy and became sluggish.

[drosereturn]

Definitely not seeing the Kirk and Hayes comparison. Different types of players, different games and

Well are you saying Hayes is much better bc I see that as a ridiculous compliment although i see some similarities.
Both lengthy can shoot a bit and athletic enough but not franchise guards or anything.
Like if Hayes could have a hinrich level career I would not trade down and pick.

[Grodoboldo]

Thank me later...

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Player-B has better footwork and handles, more advanced passing, actually has defensive highlights, and is doing it against pros. Also has a clean bill of health, not a prime 25-26yo who has missed 130 games in 2 seasons.

Too much revisionist history there. Val is a bust but Hayes wouldnt be a much better prospect in a weaker draft.
Val had much better playmaking and shooting for him which are key for a guard.
Skill was never an issue for him.

Hayes is better at shot creation and defense while being full 4 years younger during his draft.
Also while not being a monster athletically (I swear, some of you would rather draft track stars instead of basketball players), he's much more athletic than Valentine. Not that it matters, some criticism here is so far of base that it has become some kind of agenda.
Yes,this draft is weak at the top, but to actually believe that someone comparable to Valentine would be a top 5 pick is ludicrous.

[mattao313]

Hayes is a really impressive shot creator. He's also 6'5 with a 6'8 wingpsan. I think those are the two main points of difference.

Would Reggie Jackson with better playmaking be a good comparison? Athletically I think they are close both love ball screens as well.

[Chi town]

Hayes is a really impressive shot creator. He's also 6'5 with a 6'8 wingpsan. I think those are the two main points of difference.

Would Reggie Jackson with better playmaking be a good comparison? Athletically I think they are close both love ball screens as well.

I think Hayes IQ is higher.

Due to the lefty connection... Seems like a more talented Dragic.

[Chi town]

Hayes is a really impressive shot creator. He's also 6'5 with a 6'8 wingpsan. I think those are the two main points of difference.

Would Reggie Jackson with better playmaking be a good comparison? Athletically I think they are close both love ball screens as well.

I think Hayes IQ is higher.

Due to the lefty connection... Seems like a more talented Dragic.

Hayes is also taller, longer, and I believe will be a better athlete than Dragic which means he’s all DTR talent.

[mattao313]

Would Reggie Jackson with better playmaking be a good comparison? Athletically I think they are close both love ball screens as well.

I think Hayes IQ is higher.

Due to the lefty connection... Seems like a more talented Dragic.

Hayes is also taller, longer, and I believe will be a better athlete than Dragic which means he’s all DTR talent.

Maybe I think Dragic is a better athlete, in Phoenix he was really good around the rim as a finisher and quick. Hayes is better as a playmaker tho.

[MrFortune3]

Definitely not seeing the Kirk and Hayes comparison. Different types of players, different games and

Well are you saying Hayes is much better bc I see that as a ridiculous compliment although i see some similarities.
Both lengthy can shoot a bit and athletic enough but not franchise guards or anything.
Like if Hayes could have a hinrich level career I would not trade down and pick.

I am no fan on Hinrich. I hate player comparisons with a passion but Hayes and Kirk are in no way similar.

[MrSparkle]

Hayes' passing is beyond any comparison thrown into this page. Valentine has very good hands and vision but his footwork and foot-speed don't really make him a PG threat whatsoever. His feet look like concrete. Then coupled with glass ankles, missing so much time in his career and barely 26yo? But hey, if you put Valentine's skills in LaVine, you'd have yourself an MVP player so there's that.

Watch on YouTube

;feature=emb_logo

Dragic, Kirk, Reggie Jackson never made a body of passes like this. At 0:58, the casual lob for the big man, he makes it look incredibly easy, yet most starting PGs in the NBA couldn't do that in action. There is no way in hell Reggie or Kirk could make those interior passes regularly.

His passes are no doubt more advanced cause his wing-span seems bigger than advertised, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's still growing. Any conventional PG under 6'5 doesn't make those types of high over-head passes. It's more what a tall wing or C like Jokic would do. And his timing for the one-hand alley-oop passes off-the-dribble (kind of out his shooting motion) - very slick. AND he gets to the rim and can generate assists in paint/traffic.

I'm happy if he's a Bull.

[Andi Obst]

I hate player comparisons with a passion

Me too, especially when people try to find that one guy who plays just like the draft prospect they compare him to. It almost never works. It's fine to point out similarities in certain aspects, you just do that naturally as you watch them play, but the "draft prospect x is the next NBA player y!"-comparisons are just super annoying (and often just show that you either love or hate a prospect).

[MrFortune3]

I hate player comparisons with a passion

Me too, especially when people try to find that one guy who plays just like the draft prospect they compare him to. It almost never works. It's fine to point out similarities in certain aspects, you just do that naturally as you watch them play, but the "draft prospect x is the next NBA player y!"-comparisons are just super annoying (and often just show that you either love or hate a prospect).

Agreed. I try to never compare guys because it doesn’t fit.

[kodo]

Kirk & Valentine are catch & shoot shooters. This makes about as much sense as comparing Jamal Murray to Valentine. Dragic I can sort of see.

But in all 3 cases, they all entered the league at 22-23. All of Killian Hayes' games & scouting is based off him at 18 years. He just turned 19 but I don't think he's played public basketball since the shutdown.

If Killian Hayes in 5 years = Valentine, yeah I guess it's a good comparison.

[mattao313]

Spoiler:

Hayes' passing is beyond any comparison thrown into this page. Valentine has very good hands and vision but his footwork and foot-speed don't really make him a PG threat whatsoever. His feet look like concrete. Then coupled with glass ankles, missing so much time in his career and barely 26yo? But hey, if you put Valentine's skills in LaVine, you'd have yourself an MVP player so there's that.

Watch on YouTube

;feature=emb_logo

Dragic, Kirk, Reggie Jackson never made a body of passes like this. At 0:58, the casual lob for the big man, he makes it look incredibly easy, yet most starting PGs in the NBA couldn't do that in action. There is no way in hell Reggie or Kirk could make those interior passes regularly.

His passes are no doubt more advanced cause his wing-span seems bigger than advertised, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's still growing. Any conventional PG under 6'5 doesn't make those types of high over-head passes. It's more what a tall wing or C like Jokic would do. And his timing for the one-hand alley-oop passes off-the-dribble (kind of out his shooting motion) - very slick. AND he gets to the rim and can generate assists in paint/traffic.

I'm happy if he's a Bull.

I was comparing him to Reggie Jackson from a scoring and athleticism stand point I even stated with better playmaking in my post. Jackson plays a very methodical game with a bunch of screens as he isnt the quickest guard around I could see Hayes having a similar game.