2019-20 NBA Season Discussion

[HeartBreakKid]

Jokic was the best player in this game.

[MO12msu]

Would just like to thank the Joker and AD for letting me witness that fantastic duel.

Weird game by Bron, dominant in the first half and then really struggled in the 2nd half. Seems like Jokic finally figured out Dwight and his antics in the 4th quarter.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Jokic cleary outplayed Davis overall in the game imo.

Two sides of the court my G, davis was great on defense and had a few key possessions where he completely stopped guys getting to the rim, jokic gabe up like 4-5 easy shots at the rim at least including a really dumb foul on davis in the restricted

Almost all of jokic's buckets were off of mismatches, he got a few good ones off of davis and howard, davis created most of his and in the furst half almost all of then were literally on jokic

I think its arguably that jokic had a better offensive performance than davis, although taking into account various factors, like how davis got most of his buckets on jokic or millsap wheb offense qas stagnant or action was broken down vs jokic against pick and roll mismatches, i think its arguablt at best, but when you take defense into consideration its no contest. Despite the steals (that were errant or poorly times passes going out of bounds for the most part) jokic was still pretty bad on D and got bailed out by lucky misses on that end, not to mention he was for the most part inneffective on the boards and wasnt boxing out.

[Clyde Frazier]

Rewatching the game winner... Wtf was plumlee doing?!

[HeartBreakKid]

Jokic cleary outplayed Davis overall in the game imo.

Two sides of the court my G, davis was great on defense and had a few key possessions where he completely stopped guys getting to the rim, jokic gabe up like 4-5 easy shots at the rim at least including a really dumb foul on davis in the restricted

Almost all of jokic's buckets were off of mismatches, he got a few good ones off of davis and howard, davis created most of his and in the furst half almost all of then were literally on jokic

I think its arguably that jokic had a better offensive performance than davis
, although taking into account various factors, like how davis got most of his buckets on jokic or millsap wheb offense qas stagnant or action was broken down vs jokic against pick and roll mismatches, i think its arguablt at best, but when you take defense into consideration its no contest. Despite the steals (that were errant or poorly times passes going out of bounds for the most part) jokic was still pretty bad on D and got bailed out by lucky misses on that end, not to mention he was for the most part inneffective on the boards and wasnt boxing out.

No.....and there was nothing easy about Jokic's 4th quarter buckets. They were all substantially hard shots or complete isolations including one he had on Davis. The gap between Jokic and Davis on offense is pretty dang clear, even without looking at the stats (which favor Jokic).

Davis was hardly indestructible on defense. The Nuggets 12th man was scoring on him in the paint (or should have been if he did not shoot 20% from the line). If the Nuggets win this game no one would even consider who was the best this game.

Anthony Davis wasn't very effective in the first half, while James was basically the polar opposite. That made a gigantic difference. I don't know how we're bringing up ease and saying that's in Davis favor - the Nuggets are less talented and have to play way harder, and have had a playoff game nearly every other day for a month straight. Stamina is not on their side and it shows.

[eminence]

Rewatching the game winner... Wtf was plumlee doing?!

Yeah, it was terrible, and he'd just been checked in for that possession too, really bad.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Cont.

In terms of scoring theres a distinction between high value vs low value scoring, jokic scored at least for the furst three quarters in situations he was supposed to score in, against pick and roll mismatches, davis was scoring against the two prinary defenders he had, including 4 in a row on jokic himself

The only real argument is playmaking but off the top of my head out of 9 jokic assists only 3 were really anything, the dish off when he was driving, the one where he went slenderman and flinged it, and that pass to millsap inside

Because of the nature of his playmaking being the methodical type and the lakers scramble d a bunch of those passes he made late shotclock werent generating offense when the nuggets created a weakness theough it because ut was exploited too late. Most of the kickouts were either obvious reads or nuggets scheme reads, like when he goes in the post overloads it and they sent someone to cut to divert attention away feom the corner, which is an offensive principle thing that theyre looking out fir specifically

Davis's offense was generated off of BROKEN offense for the most part, the lakers offense being stagnant and davis getting the ball mid ir late shot clock and going at either jokic/millsap/whoever 1v1, he was saving possessions rather thab executing his role which is a big difference.

Essentially offensively, jokic did what he was supposed to do at a decent rate, but overall he didnt do as well as youd expect scoring wise considering he was scoring mainly off of mismatches or jumpers. However his playmaking brings it up a hell of a lot. Meanwhile his D brings it down

Davis was producing offense when it was broken up without mismatches for the most part, often against joic himself (iirc it was 2/5 vs davis vs 4/6 vs jokic, i only saw since the second part of the first quarter and they both missed alot beforehand)

Defensively it wasnt close

Jokic wasnt disasterous and had active hands, although the four steals is definately misleading and he was letting guys at the rim, we just werent finishing. The times he did play good D a few times was against AD, who would make the tough shot

AD was doing his usual stuff but was switching on murray and just pressuring with his length and closing down passing lanes

Other things like how the nuggets runs were for the most part with jokic off the floor too.

The only way to say jokic was better is to say his offense was so much better than davis that the defensive gap doesnt matter but i dont see how thats rhe case at all, when davis was scoring almost exclusively without the easy buckets he normally gets while jokic was taking advantage if mismatches

Obv you have to execute but davis executed under a more difficult scoring condition and scored better

[freethedevil]

Jokic cleary outplayed Davis overall in the game imo.

Two sides of the court my G, davis was great on defense and had a few key possessions where he completely stopped guys getting to the rim, jokic gabe up like 4-5 easy shots at the rim at least including a really dumb foul on davis in the restricted

Almost all of jokic's buckets were off of mismatches, he got a few good ones off of davis and howard, davis created most of his and in the furst half almost all of then were literally on jokic

I think its arguably that jokic had a better offensive performance than davis, although taking into account various factors, like how davis got most of his buckets on jokic or millsap wheb offense qas stagnant or action was broken down vs jokic against pick and roll mismatches, i think its arguablt at best, but when you take defense into consideration its no contest. Despite the steals (that were errant or poorly times passes going out of bounds for the most part) jokic was still pretty bad on D and got bailed out by lucky misses on that end, not to mention he was for the most part inneffective on the boards and wasnt boxing out.

are we gonna totally ignore playmaking. its not arugable at all jokic was better offensively. davis's defense might ridge the gap tho

[No-more-rings]

Yeah also not really buying that Davis’ defense was all that great in this game. Sure he’s going to deter some shots here and there, but he got bullied on a clutch moment by Jokic and as already noted the Nuggets 11th or 12th man wasn’t exactly intimidated by Davis’ rim protection.

I’m not even sure where people are getting the idea that Davis has morphed into this Tim Duncan-like defender, not trying to exaggerate either that seems to be a thing these playoffs where he’s said to have played this amazing defense or something. At least in the case of this game the Laker’s perimeter defense seemed to be more of a factor and on offense Davis still doesn’t create much for others.

[freethedevil]

Rewatching the game winner... Wtf was plumlee doing?!

Yeah, it was terrible, and he'd just been checked in for that possession too, really bad.

Jokic deserves credit for goaing all the way otu to contest.

[HeartBreakKid]

I don't think Davis defense was anything special for his standards this game.

[GSP]

Plumlee **** up bad but it feels like Ad would've hit that shot even if Grant switched like Mason wanted him to

[MO12msu]

You can't just discredit Jokic because of "obvious reads or the nuggets scheme". The scheme is built around Jokic, Jokic is the scheme.

This is not a game where Jokic or AD clearly outplayed the other.

[70sFan]

Jokic didn't score in easy situations in the 4th though, he made a lot of tough shots and he scored his share of points against Dwight and Davis. I mean, he backed down Davis with ease for a potential game winner.

I'd have to rewatch this game to decide who was better, but both had amazing games and Jokic was inarguably more consistent offensively. Davis played phenomenal defense on P&Rs and he contained Murray on some switches, but I didn't like his rim protection in this game. Overall, very good defensive game (not on all-time great level though). Jokic looked inconsistent to me - he had some very nice moments and he defended Davis well, but his rim protection wasn't good (as usual) and he fouled a lot.

All I know right now is that I haven't seen so many exciting bigmen duels in years! Firstly, Gobert vs Jokic and now Davis vs Jokic - this is something I like!

[PaulieWal]

Also, in the 3rd, AD was a huge reason the Lakers offense look bogged down. They were just forcing him the ball but no one else was moving and AD was jsut shooting almost every time he was getting the ball. I think in aggregate Jokic was better than AD this game.

[GSP]

Jokic VS Ad.was basically a wash this game. Not sure how you can say one was clearly better

Ad is still far ahead for the series considering the massive gap in play in game 1

[dreamshake]

I don't think Davis defense was anything special for his standards this game.

His standards on that end though are extremely high.

[freethedevil]

Yeah also not really buying that Davis’ defense was all that great in this game. Sure he’s going to deter some shots here and there, but he got bullied on a clutch moment by Jokic and as already noted the Nuggets 11th or 12th man wasn’t exactly intimidated by Davis’ rim protection.

I’m not even sure where people are getting the idea that Davis has morphed into this Tim Duncan-like defender, not trying to exaggerate either that seems to be a thing these playoffs where he’s said to have played this amazing defense or something. At least in the case of this game the Laker’s perimeter defense seemed to be more of a factor and on offense Davis still doesn’t create much for others.

for what its worth lebron had a higher block% than ad against the rockets. There was wierdly one game where i'm pretty sure lebron protected the rim more somehow

[HeartBreakKid]

Jokic VS Ad.was basically a wash this game. Not sure how you can say one was clearly better

Ad is still far ahead for the series considering the massive gap in play in game 1

That was more because of Dwight Howard though. Big body leaning and roughing up Jokic in game 1.

Davis doesn't have to worry about someone tiring him out for an entire game. Who is even on him when it's not Jokic, Grant?

[Peregrine01]

Gotta suck for Nuggets fans to see Plumlee get subbed in precisely for his defense and seconds later completely dying on a soft screen. Inexcusable defense.