2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[MrSparkle]

Spoiler:

Hayes' passing is beyond any comparison thrown into this page. Valentine has very good hands and vision but his footwork and foot-speed don't really make him a PG threat whatsoever. His feet look like concrete. Then coupled with glass ankles, missing so much time in his career and barely 26yo? But hey, if you put Valentine's skills in LaVine, you'd have yourself an MVP player so there's that.

Watch on YouTube

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Dragic, Kirk, Reggie Jackson never made a body of passes like this. At 0:58, the casual lob for the big man, he makes it look incredibly easy, yet most starting PGs in the NBA couldn't do that in action. There is no way in hell Reggie or Kirk could make those interior passes regularly.

His passes are no doubt more advanced cause his wing-span seems bigger than advertised, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's still growing. Any conventional PG under 6'5 doesn't make those types of high over-head passes. It's more what a tall wing or C like Jokic would do. And his timing for the one-hand alley-oop passes off-the-dribble (kind of out his shooting motion) - very slick. AND he gets to the rim and can generate assists in paint/traffic.

I'm happy if he's a Bull.

I was comparing him to Reggie Jackson from a scoring and athleticism stand point I even stated with better playmaking in my post. Jackson plays a very methodical game with a bunch of screens as he isnt the quickest guard around I could see Hayes having a similar game.

Are we talking about Reggie Jackson? Wasn't he a hyper athletic scorer with no IQ and mediocre jumpshot, basically a Westbrook-lite, until his 15th knee surgery rendered him pretty much useless?

[mattao313]

Spoiler:

Hayes' passing is beyond any comparison thrown into this page. Valentine has very good hands and vision but his footwork and foot-speed don't really make him a PG threat whatsoever. His feet look like concrete. Then coupled with glass ankles, missing so much time in his career and barely 26yo? But hey, if you put Valentine's skills in LaVine, you'd have yourself an MVP player so there's that.

Watch on YouTube

;feature=emb_logo

Dragic, Kirk, Reggie Jackson never made a body of passes like this. At 0:58, the casual lob for the big man, he makes it look incredibly easy, yet most starting PGs in the NBA couldn't do that in action. There is no way in hell Reggie or Kirk could make those interior passes regularly.

His passes are no doubt more advanced cause his wing-span seems bigger than advertised, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's still growing. Any conventional PG under 6'5 doesn't make those types of high over-head passes. It's more what a tall wing or C like Jokic would do. And his timing for the one-hand alley-oop passes off-the-dribble (kind of out his shooting motion) - very slick. AND he gets to the rim and can generate assists in paint/traffic.

I'm happy if he's a Bull.

I was comparing him to Reggie Jackson from a scoring and athleticism stand point I even stated with better playmaking in my post. Jackson plays a very methodical game with a bunch of screens as he isnt the quickest guard around I could see Hayes having a similar game.

Are we talking about Reggie Jackson? Wasn't he a hyper athletic scorer with no IQ and mediocre jumpshot, basically a Westbrook-lite, until his 15th knee surgery rendered him pretty much useless?

I know in Detroit he wasnt hyper athletic sure he could dunk but it was mostly because he has monkey arms.

[Grodoboldo]

So Minny just hired a draft consultant.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/259641/247-Sports-Analyst-Josh-Gershon-To-Join-Timberwolves

Looked around and found a recent big board that he helped writing.

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/NBA-Draft-2020-top-players-Anthony-Edwards-Toppin-Wiseman-LaMelo-Ball-Onyeka-Okongwu-Isaac-Okoro-Killian-Hayes-Deni-Avdija-150905889/

[Jcool0]

So Minny just hired a draft consultant.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/259641/247-Sports-Analyst-Josh-Gershon-To-Join-Timberwolves

Looked around and found a recent big board that he helped writing.

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/NBA-Draft-2020-top-players-Anthony-Edwards-Toppin-Wiseman-LaMelo-Ball-Onyeka-Okongwu-Isaac-Okoro-Killian-Hayes-Deni-Avdija-150905889/

I hope he convinces the Timberwolves to take Obi Toppin

[Grodoboldo]

So Minny just hired a draft consultant.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/259641/247-Sports-Analyst-Josh-Gershon-To-Join-Timberwolves

Looked around and found a recent big board that he helped writing.

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/NBA-Draft-2020-top-players-Anthony-Edwards-Toppin-Wiseman-LaMelo-Ball-Onyeka-Okongwu-Isaac-Okoro-Killian-Hayes-Deni-Avdija-150905889/

I hope he convinces the Timberwolves to take Obi Toppin

Yeah

[GimmeDat]

These teams are bringing on guys from the high school analyst scene because of the 1 and done rule going. They're realizing the importance of the pre-college sample.

[Grodoboldo]

These teams are bringing on guys from the high school analyst scene because of the 1 and done rule going. They're realizing the importance of the pre-college sample.

I don't really have much evidence, but the Bulls organization as a whole just seems one step behind on everything. We have fewer scouts, fewer FO staff, fewer assistant coaches, FFS we had fewer monitors on guys desks according to insiders.
It's not only our roster that needs a lot of work.

[Chicagoat]

The draft starts at 2 with Golden State. The T-Wolves are pretty much gonna pick Edwards at #1. He fills a need at the wing AND he has arguably the ceiling in the draft. Barring some Anthony Bennett type of night.

It all depends if the Warriors trade down for a player they like the most or out completely for some help that can produce right now. Maybe for a player that's still on a rookie scale contract like John Collins, or maybe some glue guys like Covington, or maybe an all star caliber player like Beal.

But I can't see any higher caliber player like Beal or Simmons being dealt because Wiggins will most likely be involved so salaries can match. Wiggins is Wiggins but it depends how much those teams value the picks that will be involved alongside Wiggins.

[Jcool0]

These teams are bringing on guys from the high school analyst scene because of the 1 and done rule going. They're realizing the importance of the pre-college sample.

I don't really have much evidence, but the Bulls organization as a whole just seems one step behind on everything. We have fewer scouts, fewer FO staff, fewer assistant coaches, FFS we had fewer monitors on guys desks according to insiders.
It's not only our roster that needs a lot of work.

You do know we have a new front office right?

[Grodoboldo]

These teams are bringing on guys from the high school analyst scene because of the 1 and done rule going. They're realizing the importance of the pre-college sample.

I don't really have much evidence, but the Bulls organization as a whole just seems one step behind on everything. We have fewer scouts, fewer FO staff, fewer assistant coaches, FFS we had fewer monitors on guys desks according to insiders.
It's not only our roster that needs a lot of work.

You do know we have a new front office right?

We have a new VP and a new GM. I remember some other two guys. But I don't have much faith in what/who is left from the GarPax era.
But yes, we made some changes. Let's hope we catch up the next few years.

[Jordan Syndrome]

The draft starts at 2 with Golden State. The T-Wolves are pretty much gonna pick Edwards at #1. He fills a need at the wing AND he has arguably the ceiling in the draft. Barring some Anthony Bennett type of night.

It all depends if the Warriors trade down for a player they like the most or out completely for some help that can produce right now. Maybe for a player that's still on a rookie scale contract like John Collins, or maybe some glue guys like Covington, or maybe an all star caliber player like Beal.

But I can't see any higher caliber player like Beal or Simmons being dealt because Wiggins will most likely be involved so salaries can match. Wiggins is Wiggins but it depends how much those teams value the picks that will be involved alongside Wiggins.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Golden State combine their 17.2 Million TPE and #2 pick to get a solid player and move back into the early teens.

[Senor Chang]

If Valentine could stay healthy and show steady improvement year to year then maybe we wouldn't even be thinking of drafting Hayes. Besides, Valentine more resembles Haliburton if anything.

[Rose2Boozer]

If Valentine could stay healthy and show steady improvement year to year then maybe we wouldn't even be thinking of drafting Hayes. Besides, Valentine more resembles Haliburton if anything.

If Hayes is the pick at four, isn't he more than likely the replacement for either Lavine or White?

[drosereturn]

If Valentine could stay healthy and show steady improvement year to year then maybe we wouldn't even be thinking of drafting Hayes. Besides, Valentine more resembles Haliburton if anything.

And thats not a knock on Hali bc high skilled high floor types wont be total busts. Val if he could shred his body fat and stay healthy could easily be a fvv type bench guy.

[PlayerUp]

Denzel Valentine will be 27 in 2 months.

Half his career he has been injured.

Pretty much given up all hope he can be anything decent in the NBA.

[drosereturn]

Denzel Valentine will be 27 in 2 months.

Half his career he has been injured.

Pretty much given up all hope he can be anything decent in the NBA.

What are you talking about like blaming Lauri when Boylen ruined their careers?
He hasnt been healthy but thats good for the Bulls bc they can probably snag him for Arci type 3 yr deal.
He put up 10/5/3 last season on 39% 3 makes and this season per 36min he was 18/5 on 2 steals. Thats way better than Shaq and Arci combined and better than Dunn who is gleague garbage on offense.
I dont expect him to put up numbers but honestly my eye test has made me believe Valentine is a better impact than Lavine and actually makes the team function like a average NBA offense team. For counting stats, he just has to put up 13/5/5 which is not hard for a guy of his skill. I dont understand why people keep bringing up age when every team needs a key rotation player.

Skilled wings like Porter, Val are must keepers. The only issue is their price tag after being injured out so long. If you can get them for below market rate, its no brainer. But yeah Valentine is talented enough not to waste a pick on Hayes which was my point.

[Grodoboldo]

I believe Valentine is an end of rotation kind of player. That usually goes from around the vet min to a room MLE kind of deal depending on the team.
He also shouldn't impact our draft choice at all.

[Jvaughn]

Denzel Valentine will be 27 in 2 months.

Half his career he has been injured.

Pretty much given up all hope he can be anything decent in the NBA.

What are you talking about like blaming Lauri when Boylen ruined their careers?
He hasnt been healthy but thats good for the Bulls bc they can probably snag him for Arci type 3 yr deal.
He put up 10/5/3 last season on 39% 3 makes and this season per 36min he was 18/5 on 2 steals. Thats way better than Shaq and Arci combined and better than Dunn who is gleague garbage on offense.
I dont expect him to put up numbers but honestly my eye test has made me believe Valentine is a better impact than Lavine and actually makes the team function like a average NBA offense team. For counting stats, he just has to put up 13/5/5 which is not hard for a guy of his skill. I dont understand why people keep bringing up age when every team needs a key rotation player.

Really dude?? Denzel Valentine?

[PlayerUp]

Denzel Valentine will be 27 in 2 months.

Half his career he has been injured.

Pretty much given up all hope he can be anything decent in the NBA.

What are you talking about like blaming Lauri when Boylen ruined their careers?
He hasnt been healthy but thats good for the Bulls bc they can probably snag him for Arci type 3 yr deal.
He put up 10/5/3 last season on 39% 3 makes and this season per 36min he was 18/5 on 2 steals. Thats way better than Shaq and Arci combined and better than Dunn who is gleague garbage on offense.
I dont expect him to put up numbers but honestly my eye test has made me believe Valentine is a better impact than Lavine and actually makes the team function like a average NBA offense team. For counting stats, he just has to put up 13/5/5 which is not hard for a guy of his skill. I dont understand why people keep bringing up age when every team needs a key rotation player.

Skilled wings like Porter, Val are must keepers. The only issue is their price tag after being injured out so long. If you can get them for below market rate, its no brainer. But yeah Valentine is talented enough not to waste a pick on Hayes which was my point.

Most of your views aren't on the same page with most Bulls fans.

In the last 7 days I have seen you say:

- You have wanted to trade for Eric Bledsoe giving up Coby White + other young pieces
- You have wanted to trade for Russell Westbrook giving up Zach Lavine
- You think Denzel has a better impact than Zach Lavine
- You want to dump Wendell Carter for basically nothing

[MrFortune3]

These teams are bringing on guys from the high school analyst scene because of the 1 and done rule going. They're realizing the importance of the pre-college sample.

I don't really have much evidence, but the Bulls organization as a whole just seems one step behind on everything. We have fewer scouts, fewer FO staff, fewer assistant coaches, FFS we had fewer monitors on guys desks according to insiders.
It's not only our roster that needs a lot of work.

That's why we have a new FO who is focused on player development. A house starts by properly laying the foundation.