2020 NBA Draft Prospects: Thread II

[KGdaBom]

Passing on Edwards and seeing him develop into a star wing would be the most painful draft miss in Wolves history

No way. Drafting Johnny Flynn over Curry gets that honor.

[Jedzz]

The problem with this is we don't draft the by far best player in the draft Wiseman just because we have one good center. No reason at all we can't move KAT to the PF where we have a void and play Wiseman at Center or we can play Wiseman at the PF.

I get your point and I normally would agree BUT would Rosas agree? From what we have seen so far it doesn't fit his small ball philosophy. Nobody wants a defensive rim protecting player next to Towns more than me. If he can score all the better.

With Rosas I just don't see him playing Towns at the 4.

I'm still concerned with Wiseman playing so few college games and then against easy matchups. It just leaves me with so many question about him. Every guy seems to be a gamble in this draft.

Last year was easy with Ja and Williamson and Ja was far more a certain star in my mind between the two. If Ja were in this draft I'd snap him up in a second PG or not and trade D'Lo or move him to off guard.

If Rosa's is picking for fit/system rather then best pure talent right now, with the #1 pick, then he is the wrong GM for us.

I'm not sure absolutism is best in this scenario. The scenario being that a few of the players listed on top right now aren't looked at as sure things, or even best pure talents if you ask me. It's all based on hive mind hype about potential more than anything real. One of the players is really known because of instagram and his father's drummed up marketing as much as anything real. So how are you going to decide if Rosas has picked Best Pure Talent or not with the #1 pick. And does BBIQ enter into your equation of best pure talent? Because if it does, and it should, that might rule Edwards out of a best pure talent claim and we don't know if Wiseman is high in this or not. Natural court vision, passing skills, shooting skill, natural defensive instincts, handles, competitive spirit, that list is large. Wouldn't you say? It's a tough choice this year.

>Some think you just keep adding raw "talent" and some day you will have enough to do something.
>Other might say at some point you have to try and put a team together. Maybe when your team has already decided to pay two players Max deals it could be time now to build around them with players that fit with them and go get something done already.

[Killboard]

I’m not saying Edwards will be a bust but any team that drafts him in the Top 5 is playing with fire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can probably say that about any Top 5 guy, but teams can't just forfeit the top five. Picks will still need to be made.

Not Hayes.

Shooting: Check
Passing&Vision: Check
Handling: Check
Defense: Check
Work Ethic: Check
Positional Size: Check

[Klomp]

One of the players is really known because of instagram and his father's drummed up marketing as much as anything real. So how are you going to decide if Rosas has picked Best Pure Talent or not with the #1 pick.

This is ridiculous to me. The world may have been introduced to him by social media/marketing, but that doesn't nullify the player's on-court ability. Social media stars don't get automatically vaulted to the top of the rankings without showing basketball talent and potential, otherwise Julian Newman would be at the top of all the 2021 mocks.

[Klomp]

I’m not saying Edwards will be a bust but any team that drafts him in the Top 5 is playing with fire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can probably say that about any Top 5 guy, but teams can't just forfeit the top five. Picks will still need to be made.

Not Hayes.

Shooting: Check
Passing&Vision: Check
Handling: Check
Defense: Check
Work Ethic: Check
Positional Size: Check

You mean the Hayes who was a 29.4% shooter from the international 3-point line?

[Jedzz]

One of the players is really known because of instagram and his father's drummed up marketing as much as anything real. So how are you going to decide if Rosas has picked Best Pure Talent or not with the #1 pick.

This is ridiculous to me. The world may have been introduced to him by social media/marketing, but that doesn't nullify the player's on-court ability. Social media stars don't get automatically vaulted to the top of the rankings without showing basketball talent and potential, otherwise Julian Newman would be at the top of all the 2021 mocks.

Well, I mean, can you show us or tell us about some of that on court ability that supposedly shoots him to the top above all the others? Because the numbers don't really show it. He's got a nifty behind the back pass anyway. Supposedly he's got height. Top 3 stuff? Not sure I've seen enough to say so. So uh yeah, having a full time father figure/marketer and social following seems as much to blame for the top3 than anything he's shown since highschool. Trying to be objective here. For me the social following he's got, his own shoe product and junk like that holds no sway for me. But I can't say it doesn't for others. This is how items get sold to people. This is how people get elected. The name gets out there enough until it's into every dicussion. I have to make the assumption this could be a very large part of his draft hype to this point. I wonder if playing at a US college and having more people see the actual games if he would be higher or lower by now. It's hard for me (personally) to judge international experience. But did Luka produce as low in the international leagues? Avdija seems to have done better in international leagues than Ball has. I see the natural ball skills and vision hints. But is that alone good enough for top 3?

[Jedzz]

You can probably say that about any Top 5 guy, but teams can't just forfeit the top five. Picks will still need to be made.

Not Hayes.

Shooting: Check
Passing&Vision: Check
Handling: Check
Defense: Check
Work Ethic: Check
Positional Size: Check

You mean the Hayes who was a 29.4% shooter from the international 3-point line?

I think I saw 27.4 (27%).

But if it's either number and we are comparing to Balls' 25% 3 point shooting...

[minimus]

You can probably say that about any Top 5 guy, but teams can't just forfeit the top five. Picks will still need to be made.

Not Hayes.

Shooting: Check
Passing&Vision: Check
Handling: Check
Defense: Check
Work Ethic: Check
Positional Size: Check

You mean the Hayes who was a 29.4% shooter from the international 3-point line?

He shot 87.6 percent at the stripe in 2019-20. Which gives hopes that he will be an efficient 3pt shooter in NBA. Also he has low release point, which might help him to adopt to NBA 3pt line

[minimus]

Read on Twitter

6'7" with 7'0" wingspan makes him top5 candidate

[Mattya]

Read on Twitter

6'7" with 7'0" wingspan makes him top5 candidate

Isn’t this what his measurements have always been? I’m all for trading back up from #17 to get him. Highly highly doubt he goes top 5 though.

[Killboard]

Not Hayes.

Shooting: Check
Passing&Vision: Check
Handling: Check
Defense: Check
Work Ethic: Check
Positional Size: Check

You mean the Hayes who was a 29.4% shooter from the international 3-point line?

He shot 87.6 percent at the stripe in 2019-20. Which gives hopes that he will be an efficient 3pt shooter in NBA. Also he has low release point, which might help him to adopt to NBA 3pt line

What sets up his attacking game off the dribble is the threat of his pull up jumper. Hayes has a lethal step-back jumper that's as devastating as any signature move of a player we've seen in this class, something the advanced numbers back up. A staggering 42% of his three-point shots off the dribble fell in Germany last year, something that if he comes even close to replicating in the NBA would be astonishing.

https://in.nba.com/news/nba-draft-2020-killian-hayes-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-and-player-comparison/m71jtfjtighmzh5yepae4tj2

[urinesane]

You mean the Hayes who was a 29.4% shooter from the international 3-point line?

He shot 87.6 percent at the stripe in 2019-20. Which gives hopes that he will be an efficient 3pt shooter in NBA. Also he has low release point, which might help him to adopt to NBA 3pt line

What sets up his attacking game off the dribble is the threat of his pull up jumper. Hayes has a lethal step-back jumper that's as devastating as any signature move of a player we've seen in this class, something the advanced numbers back up. A staggering 42% of his three-point shots off the dribble fell in Germany last year, something that if he comes even close to replicating in the NBA would be astonishing.

https://in.nba.com/news/nba-draft-2020-killian-hayes-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-and-player-comparison/m71jtfjtighmzh5yepae4tj2

That's because he is extremely left-hand dominant and struggles mightily with his right. Whether it's dribbling to his right, finishing with his right, or passing with his right it doesn't come easily at all for Hayes and for that reason he avoids it at all costs. Oftentimes Hayes will choose not to take an open driving lane if it's to his right hand and on a number of occasions he forced up awkward left-handed floaters instead of attempting open right-hand layups.

It hasn't hurt him a ton in Europe but in the NBA teams are going to force him to his right in pick and roll settings and he'll be challenged to make responsible weak hand plays.

Right now Hayes is a bit of a burst defender who will show effort for brief moments of glory when it means a huge block or steal but he's far from consistent on that end.

Only hitting 18% of his threes off the catch last season he wasn't a threat off the ball and that could spell trouble for him as a young NBA player. It's likely that he isn't going to step right into an offensive initiator role with the ball in his hands and for that reason he'll need to be a floor spacer who can hit shots. Luckily he was a 91% free throw shooter which suggests he has a pretty good stroke but right now it hasn't been fully realized.

Projected NBA Draft Position: 3-8

Projected NBA Role: Pick and roll guard.

NBA Comparison: D'Angelo Russell

So he could potentially become the guy we already have?

[Killboard]

He shot 87.6 percent at the stripe in 2019-20. Which gives hopes that he will be an efficient 3pt shooter in NBA. Also he has low release point, which might help him to adopt to NBA 3pt line

What sets up his attacking game off the dribble is the threat of his pull up jumper. Hayes has a lethal step-back jumper that's as devastating as any signature move of a player we've seen in this class, something the advanced numbers back up. A staggering 42% of his three-point shots off the dribble fell in Germany last year, something that if he comes even close to replicating in the NBA would be astonishing.

https://in.nba.com/news/nba-draft-2020-killian-hayes-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-and-player-comparison/m71jtfjtighmzh5yepae4tj2

That's because he is extremely left-hand dominant and struggles mightily with his right. Whether it's dribbling to his right, finishing with his right, or passing with his right it doesn't come easily at all for Hayes and for that reason he avoids it at all costs. Oftentimes Hayes will choose not to take an open driving lane if it's to his right hand and on a number of occasions he forced up awkward left-handed floaters instead of attempting open right-hand layups.

It hasn't hurt him a ton in Europe but in the NBA teams are going to force him to his right in pick and roll settings and he'll be challenged to make responsible weak hand plays.

Right now Hayes is a bit of a burst defender who will show effort for brief moments of glory when it means a huge block or steal but he's far from consistent on that end.

Only hitting 18% of his threes off the catch last season he wasn't a threat off the ball and that could spell trouble for him as a young NBA player. It's likely that he isn't going to step right into an offensive initiator role with the ball in his hands and for that reason he'll need to be a floor spacer who can hit shots. Luckily he was a 91% free throw shooter which suggests he has a pretty good stroke but right now it hasn't been fully realized.

Projected NBA Draft Position: 3-8

Projected NBA Role: Pick and roll guard.

NBA Comparison: D'Angelo Russell

So he could potentially become the guy we already have?

That's an opinion. Anybody can have one. Still, I feel better when it is backed up with some evidence. The link was mostly provided for his off the dribble efficency, which is clearly the hardest to come around. The kid seems to have it figured out already.

1) Multiple ball handlers is a good thing. It's also a good thing they are both 6'5 and over 6'9 wingpsan.
2) I really liked Dlo coming into the draft. I'm much higher on Hayes defense, specially his ability to fight screens. He has a much better frame than Dlo to do that.
3) I would be totally fine with bring him from the bench to be an initiator with the second unit, and eventually handle him the reins playing Dlo off the ball like he did with the Warriors.
4) His weakness is definety his right hand. That's not to say he can't drive to his right but that he struggles when defenses commit multiple defenders and he needs to go to his right. He is among the youngest player in the draft though, and already has been putting work on it:

Read on Twitter

[urinesane]

https://in.nba.com/news/nba-draft-2020-killian-hayes-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-and-player-comparison/m71jtfjtighmzh5yepae4tj2

That's because he is extremely left-hand dominant and struggles mightily with his right. Whether it's dribbling to his right, finishing with his right, or passing with his right it doesn't come easily at all for Hayes and for that reason he avoids it at all costs. Oftentimes Hayes will choose not to take an open driving lane if it's to his right hand and on a number of occasions he forced up awkward left-handed floaters instead of attempting open right-hand layups.

It hasn't hurt him a ton in Europe but in the NBA teams are going to force him to his right in pick and roll settings and he'll be challenged to make responsible weak hand plays.

Right now Hayes is a bit of a burst defender who will show effort for brief moments of glory when it means a huge block or steal but he's far from consistent on that end.

Only hitting 18% of his threes off the catch last season he wasn't a threat off the ball and that could spell trouble for him as a young NBA player. It's likely that he isn't going to step right into an offensive initiator role with the ball in his hands and for that reason he'll need to be a floor spacer who can hit shots. Luckily he was a 91% free throw shooter which suggests he has a pretty good stroke but right now it hasn't been fully realized.

Projected NBA Draft Position: 3-8

Projected NBA Role: Pick and roll guard.

NBA Comparison: D'Angelo Russell

So he could potentially become the guy we already have?

That's an opinion. Anybody can have one. Still, I feel better when it is backed up with some evidence. The link was mostly provided for his off the dribble efficency, which is clearly the hardest to come around. The kid seems to have it figured out already.

1) Multiple ball handlers is a good thing. It's also a good thing they are both 6'5 and over 6'9 wingpsan.
2) I really liked Dlo coming into the draft. I'm much higher on Hayes defense, specially his ability to fight screens. He has a much better frame than Dlo to do that.
3) His weakness is definety his right hand. That's not to say he can't drive to his right but that he struggles when defenses commit multiple defenders and he needs to go to his right. He is among the youngest player in the draft though, and already has been putting work on it:

Read on Twitter

This entire forum is based on opinions, even when stats are used, people only pick the ones that support their own arguments.

[Killboard]

This entire forum is based on opinions, even when stats are used, people only pick the ones that support their own arguments.

I edited added a point, but didn't delete anything.

Sure, still I feel better when people bring it, because it lets me have a more well informed opinion.

[urinesane]

This entire forum is based on opinions, even when stats are used, people only pick the ones that support their own arguments.

I edited added a point, but didn't delete anything.

Sure, still I feel better when people bring it, because it lets me have a more well informed opinion.

What pick would you use to draft him?

[Killboard]

This entire forum is based on opinions, even when stats are used, people only pick the ones that support their own arguments.

I edited added a point, but didn't delete anything.

Sure, still I feel better when people bring it, because it lets me have a more well informed opinion.

What pick would you use to draft him?

Ideally I would trade down because I think his percieved value isn't as high as what it seems the consesus top3. I definetly could see him landing in Chicago though. They need a PG and Karnisovas is well versed in euro prospects, which are often overlooked. Harder to see him going to Atlanta or Cleveland. Then Detroit and NY can definetly use him.

Still, to trade down you need to be fine with any order the board falls, but I would take him #1 if there is no deal in place that I feel comfortable with. PJ Washington and trade down to 3 would be my pipedream.

[KGdaBom]

I’m not saying Edwards will be a bust but any team that drafts him in the Top 5 is playing with fire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can probably say that about any Top 5 guy, but teams can't just forfeit the top five. Picks will still need to be made.

Not Hayes.

Shooting: Check
Passing&Vision: Check
Handling: Check
Defense: Check
Work Ethic: Check
Positional Size: Check

I don't know about the rest, but I wouldn't give shooting a check.

[Killboard]

You can probably say that about any Top 5 guy, but teams can't just forfeit the top five. Picks will still need to be made.

Not Hayes.

Shooting: Check
Passing&Vision: Check
Handling: Check
Defense: Check
Work Ethic: Check
Positional Size: Check

I don't know about the rest, but I wouldn't give shooting a check.

42% 3pt off the dribble (86 total) and 87% FT it's a pass for me. I suppose we will know for sure in a couple of years.

[KGdaBom]

Not Hayes.

Shooting: Check
Passing&Vision: Check
Handling: Check
Defense: Check
Work Ethic: Check
Positional Size: Check

I don't know about the rest, but I wouldn't give shooting a check.

42% 3pt off the dribble (86 total) and 87% FT it's a pass for me. I suppose we will know for sure in a couple of years.

Whenever a guys a bad three point shooter you find people saying well he was really good on corner threes or catch and shoot threes or threes off the dribble or threes on Sundays in months that start with a J. He shot under 30% from 3. That is bad.