Chuck's Challenge: Wolves, a Slow Burn

[patman66]

1, James Johnson for 4, Thad Young and Wendel Carter, Bulls remove young's 13 mill from 2021 cap . Wolves get a better player looking for min.

Sign Beasley

Sign Jymchal Green

Draft Demi/Vassel for the 3

I also like the valentine pick for the full MLE

Beasley/Dlo/Okogie FA PG Dunn for D?
Demi/Culver wings
young and Green at the 4
Carter and Towns at the 5.

So you think the Wolves should move down to secure a better backup to Towns? I don't see getting a backup center as a priority for the Wolves.To me Markkanen would be the better target if Minny wanted to move down with Chicago.

They also get young who is a better 4 than Johnson. Idon't think the bulls would let go of Markkanen, and towns and Dlo are already not the best on the D side of the ball. Young and Carter play D. Markkanen will also be a rfa next summer, the op asked for longer range prospects

[shrink]

1, James Johnson for 4, Thad Young and Wendel Carter, Bulls remove young's 13 mill from 2021 cap . Wolves get a better player looking for min.

Sign Beasley

Sign Jymchal Green

Draft Demi/Vassel for the 3

I also like the valentine pick for the full MLE

Beasley/Dlo/Okogie FA PG Dunn for D?
Demi/Culver wings
young and Green at the 4
Carter and Towns at the 5.

So you think the Wolves should move down to secure a better backup to Towns? I don't see getting a backup center as a priority for the Wolves.To me Markkanen would be the better target if Minny wanted to move down with Chicago.

They also get young who is a better 4 than Johnson. Idon't think the bulls would let go of Markkanen, and towns and Dlo are already not the best on the D side of the ball. Young and Carter play D. Markkanen will also be a rfa next summer, the op asked for longer range prospects

The 32 year old Thad Young’s also has an unappealing second year at $14.2 ($6 mil guaranteed if waived), compared with James Johnson’s expiring. Is Thad worth an expiring? I agree Markannen is a better target than Carter, but it’s hard to envision Markannen helping Towns.

[psman2]

1, James Johnson for 4, Thad Young and Wendel Carter, Bulls remove young's 13 mill from 2021 cap . Wolves get a better player looking for min.

Sign Beasley

Sign Jymchal Green

Draft Demi/Vassel for the 3

I also like the valentine pick for the full MLE

Beasley/Dlo/Okogie FA PG Dunn for D?
Demi/Culver wings
young and Green at the 4
Carter and Towns at the 5.

So you think the Wolves should move down to secure a better backup to Towns? I don't see getting a backup center as a priority for the Wolves.To me Markkanen would be the better target if Minny wanted to move down with Chicago.

They also get young who is a better 4 than Johnson. Idon't think the bulls would let go of Markkanen, and towns and Dlo are already not the best on the D side of the ball. Young and Carter play D. Markkanen will also be a rfa next summer, the op asked for longer range prospects

I got Johnson and Young close to a wash on the defensive side with a maybe a slight nod to Young. Young has the worst contract and less trade value imo. Regardless neither are in the long term plans of the wolves and whatever difference if there is any shouldn't be part of the discussion of moving down from 1.

Unless you are playing Carter at the four, I don't think 12-15 minutes of plus D by my backup center is a reason to move off the top pick. Plus Carter wouldn't like being a backup this early in his career.

[Klomp]

Some people might find this interesting, and an aid to those who like to know what a front office thinks like. This was commented in a recent SB Nation post. I was able to vet and confirm that the interview did happen. Whether the exchange went down like it did I can't say for certain, but it does sound very much like the approach Rosas and the Minnesota front office would take:

Now that I was host, though, I was able to squeeze in a couple of questions of my choosing.

One was asking the following.

"When it comes to drafting players, how much do you value taking home run swings, versus making sure you don’t strike out? Is it more important to have a predictable range of outcomes when you spend your draft capital, or do you accept volatility in outcomes if it means higher potential upside?"

In his answer, Gersson definitely came down on the side of the draft being a place exclusively for home run swings. He views trades and free agency as the place you fill needs with predictable outcomes, and the draft as the place where you accept volatility for the sake of high upside return.

[giberish]

Plan A:

Trade Lyman + #1 to Atlanta for Hunter + #6 -> Atlanta trades up for Edwards while Minny feels they've got SG covered and look to go elsewhere in the draft.

Draft: #6 - Okongwu; #17 Mannion

Sign Beasley and Hernangomez - should be a very team-friendly FA market

Russell/Mannion
Beasley/Okogie
Hunter/Culver
Hernangomez/Okongwu
Towns/Spelman (or Reid)

That 2nd 5 would have offensive issues playing together but you'd just stagger the starters (or use Beasley as a high-minutes 6th man and start Okogie or Culver for more defense).

Plan B:

Draft Edwards, Stewart

S&T Beasley to Orlando for Gordon. If you feel that Edwards is the guy then you take him, but then you've got a SG glut. Okogie and Culver bring needed defense and can play SF minutes as well so move Beasley. It's tough to get real value for a S&T but Beasley is an RFA which helps. Orlando needs young shooting so they move Gordon for Beasley.

Sign a vet PG

Russell/Vet backup PG
Edwards/Okogie
Culver/Hernangomez
Gordon/Johnson (or Stewart)
Towns/Speilman

Plan C:

Trade #17, Johnson to Orlando for Ross, Aminu (This feels like and overpay for Minny but I like the fit)
Trade Okigie to Dallas for Brunson (position balancing both ways)
Draft Edwards

Russell/Brunson
Beasley/Edwards
Culver/Ross
Hernangomez/Aminu
Towns /Spellman

[zimpy27]

Slow burn for them is just using the picks to try get some talent.

They can either use picks to get some late 20s/early 30s talent to boost the team or they just use their picks.

I think DLo, Beasley, Okogie, Layman, KAT could be solid as starters. McLaughlin, Culver, Naz is cool too.

I think their target should be a great defensive SF. Culver hopefully takes over the 2 and Beasley goes back to 6th man.

[psman2]

Plan A:

Trade Lyman + #1 to Atlanta for Hunter + #6 -> Atlanta trades up for Edwards while Minny feels they've got SG covered and look to go elsewhere in the draft.

Draft: #6 - Okongwu; #17 Mannion

Sign Beasley and Hernangomez - should be a very team-friendly FA market

Russell/Mannion
Beasley/Okogie
Hunter/Culver
Hernangomez/Okongwu
Towns/Spelman (or Reid)

That 2nd 5 would have offensive issues playing together but you'd just stagger the starters (or use Beasley as a high-minutes 6th man and start Okogie or Culver for more defense).

Plan B:

Draft Edwards, Stewart

S&T Beasley to Orlando for Gordon. If you feel that Edwards is the guy then you take him, but then you've got a SG glut. Okogie and Culver bring needed defense and can play SF minutes as well so move Beasley. It's tough to get real value for a S&T but Beasley is an RFA which helps. Orlando needs young shooting so they move Gordon for Beasley.

Sign a vet PG

Russell/Vet backup PG
Edwards/Okogie
Culver/Hernangomez
Gordon/Johnson (or Stewart)
Towns/Speilman

Plan C:

Trade #17, Johnson to Orlando for Ross, Aminu (This feels like and overpay for Minny but I like the fit)
Trade Okigie to Dallas for Brunson (position balancing both ways)
Draft Edwards

Russell/Brunson
Beasley/Edwards
Culver/Ross
Hernangomez/Aminu
Towns /Spellman

Regarding plan B:

I don't see Orlando interested in trading their only startable PF for a SG with Founier and Ross on the roster. I also don't have Beasley worth a contract high enough to trade match Gordon's contract.

[patman66]

So you think the Wolves should move down to secure a better backup to Towns? I don't see getting a backup center as a priority for the Wolves.To me Markkanen would be the better target if Minny wanted to move down with Chicago.

They also get young who is a better 4 than Johnson. Idon't think the bulls would let go of Markkanen, and towns and Dlo are already not the best on the D side of the ball. Young and Carter play D. Markkanen will also be a rfa next summer, the op asked for longer range prospects

The 32 year old Thad Young’s also has an unappealing second year at $14.2 ($6 mil guaranteed if waived), compared with James Johnson’s expiring. Is Thad worth an expiring? I agree Markannen is a better target than Carter, but it’s hard to envision Markannen helping Towns.

If thad young did not have that 2nd year, he would not be available at this price and I don't see the wolves as an attractive landing spot until they consistently make the playoffs. I gave them defense and did not straddle them with any long term deals. Young and Green shoot .38 from 3

[patman66]

So you think the Wolves should move down to secure a better backup to Towns? I don't see getting a backup center as a priority for the Wolves.To me Markkanen would be the better target if Minny wanted to move down with Chicago.

They also get young who is a better 4 than Johnson. Idon't think the bulls would let go of Markkanen, and towns and Dlo are already not the best on the D side of the ball. Young and Carter play D. Markkanen will also be a rfa next summer, the op asked for longer range prospects

I got Johnson and Young close to a wash on the defensive side with a maybe a slight nod to Young. Young has the worst contract and less trade value imo. Regardless neither are in the long term plans of the wolves and whatever difference if there is any shouldn't be part of the discussion of moving down from 1.

Unless you are playing Carter at the four, I don't think 12-15 minutes of plus D by my backup center is a reason to move off the top pick. Plus Carter wouldn't like being a backup this early in his career.

Well you have to look at it from the bulls perspective also. I would not move up unless it was for Wiseman (levine/edwards) and they have PG already on the roster. You trade down any further you may lose out on your target.
And no, Young is not in the long term plans unless the long term plans are based on competing for the next two years like the op said. And I don't want my 7 foot big playing 35 min a game during the year. Now if something pops up next year, you have Young as a 14mil expiring - the same value that you assign to to Johnson.

[BadWolf]

1. S&t Beasley, 33 for Bledsoe, 24
2. 17, 24, Vanderbilt, Johnson for Gordon, Ross

Draft Edwards at 1

Resign Juancho

Bledsoe, mc
DLo, Ross
Edwards, Culver, okogie

Gordon, juancho
KAT, Naz

[wolves_89]

They also get young who is a better 4 than Johnson. Idon't think the bulls would let go of Markkanen, and towns and Dlo are already not the best on the D side of the ball. Young and Carter play D. Markkanen will also be a rfa next summer, the op asked for longer range prospects

The 32 year old Thad Young’s also has an unappealing second year at $14.2 ($6 mil guaranteed if waived), compared with James Johnson’s expiring. Is Thad worth an expiring? I agree Markannen is a better target than Carter, but it’s hard to envision Markannen helping Towns.

If thad young did not have that 2nd year, he would not be available at this price and I don't see the wolves as an attractive landing spot until they consistently make the playoffs. I gave them defense and did not straddle them with any long term deals. Young and Green shoot .38 from 3

As a Wolves fan I have no desire to see Thad Young in Minnesota again, especially not with the money he's owed next season. Young left a really bad impression from his previous stint with the Wolves where he was pretty awful on the court.

[Klomp]

Well since this is the trade board...

Who will have the higher trade value, both immediately and a year down the road.....Edwards or Ball?

[ChettheJet]

1, James Johnson for 4, Thad Young and Wendel Carter, Bulls remove young's 13 mill from 2021 cap . Wolves get a better player looking for min.

I also like the valentine pick for the full MLE

You can have Denzell Valentine, at the end of the year when he was finally healthy and got on the court he played old man ball. He isn't very fast, doesn't move that well and basically gets to a spot and when the ball comes his way he shoots.

There's no way the Bulls give up their starting center to move up 3 spots. They would have to start second year Gafford, actually count on Felicio as a backup if they take Wiseman or not or have nobody if they take Ball.

They aren't stripping down the starters to play the bench and retank, they didn't sign Billy Donovan for that.

[Slim Tubby]

Well since this is the trade board...

Who will have the higher trade value, both immediately and a year down the road.....Edwards or Ball?

We can circumvent this dilemma by just drafting Wiseman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shrink]

A few ideas:

The Wolves biggest need is a mobile, PF/SF who can defend and shoot three’s. I am not an Aaron a Gordon fan here, because 30% 3P shooting diminishes MIN’s biggest advantage - Towns pulling opposing bigs away from the basket. I’d advocate:

MIN GETS: Jerami Grant S&T (say, 3 for $45) + #24
DEN GETS: Aaron Gordon
ORL GETS: James Johnson + #17 + #33

I’m violating my own rules here where I say that S&T’s have little value because the market sets the price, but I think Grant is such a good fit, I’m willing to downgrade the #17 to #24, and toss in the #33 as well. Keeping the #24 allows us to trade out of the draft with the #1 in case a deal shows up. DEN can’t get Gordon with just the #24, so they use MIN to pay for him. Gordon is a better all-around player than Grant, and he’s on a declining deal. ORL starts it’s rebuild.

#1, #17/Culver, #33 for Jaren Jackson

If the 6-page (and running) thread about Jackson for #6 and Collins has any legs, I think MIN would jump in. The premise is that MEM wants an athletic young big, and this deal guarantees they get Wiseman, locked in on rookie scale (vs Collins, who’s about to get paid big). I suspect MEM isn’t interested, but JJJ and KAT would be an excellent fit.

Darius Bazely for #17

I agree with Babyjax, that Bazely could be the low-rent attempt to find that starter.

————-

At mid season, depending on the Sixers direction, I like this deal straight up:

Malik Beasley (3 for $39 in Covid economy) for Josh Richardson

Richardson fits the Wolves need for more defense, and I still believe he has upside if he can get out of PHI. Beasley isn’t as good overall, but he’s a better three point shooter, and most importantly for PHI, locked up for three years, cheap. I suspect they can’t afford to pay Richardson next season, and would have to let him walk for nothing .. Beasley should get a deal that makes him a positive.

———

I haven’t included many of the smaller, more likely, deals that Rosas will probably be doing to gradually improve the overall talent on the team. The goal will be to find undervalued players, who because of their role or team direction, may have better luck after a trade. The Wolves will focus on highly risky players with upside for now. For bigger name players that fit this criteria, I would be interested in trades for players like Caris LeVert, DeJounte Murray, Bam, OG Anunoby could start discussions with the #1. Otherwise, I expect MIN to draft the player with the highest upside, regardless of fit. The Wolves can’t afford to mess up this pick.

[Ducklett]

Trading AG for 17 would be the last move the Orlando Magic's front office would make before getting fired.

17 isn't enough value in a terrible draft to a team trying to stay playoff relevant (even though I think we need to blow it up).

17 for Ross/Aminu is way closer than 17 for AG and a deal I think helps both sides so well done on that idea.

[Texas Chuck]

Trading AG for 17 would be the last move the Orlando Magic's front office would make before getting fired.

17 isn't enough value in a terrible draft to a team trying to stay playoff relevant (even though I think we need to blow it up).

17 for Ross/Aminu is way closer than 17 for AG and a deal I think helps both sides so well done on that idea.

I appreciate your point regarding Gordon simply not being something the team is willing to consider for reasons other than value. Certainly valid.

I can't get there on Ross/Aminu being worth 17. Aminu is clearly negative value to some degree and I'm not sure I have Ross being worth 17 on his own. In fact I know I don't. It would be one thing if the Wolves had a worse contract to send back than Johnson's expiring, but that feels like an overpay for the Wolves.

[shrink]

Trading AG for 17 would be the last move the Orlando Magic's front office would make before getting fired.

17 isn't enough value in a terrible draft to a team trying to stay playoff relevant (even though I think we need to blow it up).

17 for Ross/Aminu is way closer than 17 for AG and a deal I think helps both sides so well done on that idea.

Ross/Aminu heading into their 30’s is not the direction MIN would want to go, and I question that is even positive value with $55 mil on the books for those two.

The value for Aaron Gordon has been discussed extensively over the last year. I will mention as a closet Magic fan, that while he is a talented player, he was a pretty negative deal this last season with his poor shooting and $20 mil price tag. I understand that the front office will probably be content to chug along, trying to be a non-factor in the playoffs as I mentioned on Page 1, and may say no to #17 and #31 (and surely to #24 alone). Heck, Gordon for just #17 was mentioned earlier in this thread too. However, I long for them to start a rebuild, to clear their books, and undergo a few bad seasons with the dream of loftier goals.

[Ducklett]

Trading AG for 17 would be the last move the Orlando Magic's front office would make before getting fired.

17 isn't enough value in a terrible draft to a team trying to stay playoff relevant (even though I think we need to blow it up).

17 for Ross/Aminu is way closer than 17 for AG and a deal I think helps both sides so well done on that idea.

I appreciate your point regarding Gordon simply not being something the team is willing to consider for reasons other than value. Certainly valid.

I can't get there on Ross/Aminu being worth 17. Aminu is clearly negative value to some degree and I'm not sure I have Ross being worth 17 on his own. In fact I know I don't. It would be one thing if the Wolves had a worse contract to send back than Johnson's expiring, but that feels like an overpay for the Wolves.

Maybe it is an overpay for Ross. I didn't comment on the value I commented on it helping the Wolves. Ross isn't called the Human Torch for no reason. You bring him off the bench and if he heats up and carries your team offensively and he a professional who knows he role and doesn't mind coming off or going back to the bench.

Aminu gets a bad rap because of the unfortunate injury he had this year. Maybe he is a bit of a negative, I don't really think so, and he would have really helped the Magic had he not been hurt after Isaac went down. Magic really missed him.

[Texas Chuck]

Maybe it is an overpay for Ross. I didn't comment on the value I commented on it helping the Wolves. Ross isn't called the Human Torch for no reason. You bring him off the bench and if he heats up and carries your team offensively and he a professional who knows he role and doesn't mind coming off or going back to the bench.

Aminu gets a bad rap because of the unfortunate injury he had this year. Maybe he is a bit of a negative, I don't really think so, and he would have really helped the Magic had he not been hurt after Isaac went down. Magic really missed him.

I agree Ross helps. I love Farouq. Broke my heart when Portland swooped in the first moments of FA and sniped him after Dallas got his career back on track. But even without the injury his offensive limitations definitely have him some degree of negative value. That said he was really effective in lineups next to Dirk with his ability to be a smallball 5 defensively. I think he fits pretty well in minutes with Towns.

I just think Minny isn't in a place where they should overpay. It would be one thing if they were a couple bench guys away from the playoffs. But they aren't that.