Chuck's Challenge: Wolves, a Slow Burn

[Ducklett]

Maybe it is an overpay for Ross. I didn't comment on the value I commented on it helping the Wolves. Ross isn't called the Human Torch for no reason. You bring him off the bench and if he heats up and carries your team offensively and he a professional who knows he role and doesn't mind coming off or going back to the bench.

Aminu gets a bad rap because of the unfortunate injury he had this year. Maybe he is a bit of a negative, I don't really think so, and he would have really helped the Magic had he not been hurt after Isaac went down. Magic really missed him.

I agree Ross helps. I love Farouq. Broke my heart when Portland swooped in the first moments of FA and sniped him after Dallas got his career back on track. But even without the injury his offensive limitations definitely have him some degree of negative value. That said he was really effective in lineups next to Dirk with his ability to be a smallball 5 defensively. I think he fits pretty well in minutes with Towns.

I just think Minny isn't in a place where they should overpay. It would be one thing if they were a couple bench guys away from the playoffs. But they aren't that.

That is fair. That is the thing about the players we are talking about here: trade Ross/Aminu for 17 or don't. I am perfectly fine keeping them because they both are above average role players.

If the Wolves find some more assets to add to 17 to trade for AG, let me know. Certainly not trading him for just 17 when he has a whole season next year to play the 4 and we can trade him at the deadline for a 21 pick which certainly holds more value than a draft pick in this draft.

[dalton749]

I don’t know enough about the t-wolves young guys to go too in depth but I would start with something like:

Jonathan Issac, Terrence Ross
For
James Johnson and 1st overall

Issac is likely out all next season but when he comes back, there isn’t a better fit in the league next to Towns. Orlando recognizes that they will have to take a step back next year but takes a shot at drafting their next star player while hopefully reshuffling the rest of their roster.

The T-wolves Would be competitive next year but likely miss the playoffs while they have a year to put a full team around those 3.

[shrink]

I don’t know enough about the t-wolves young guys to go too in depth but I would start with something like:

Jonathan Issac, Terrence Ross
For
James Johnson and 1st overall

Issac is likely out all next season but when he comes back, there isn’t a better fit in the league next to Towns. Orlando recognizes that they will have to take a step back next year but takes a shot at drafting their next star player while hopefully reshuffling the rest of their roster.

The T-wolves Would be competitive next year but likely miss the playoffs while they have a year to put a full team around those 3.

I agree on the fit with Isaacs. Before he was hurt, I may have endorsed a deal like this. Unfortunately for the Magic, this injury couldn’t have come at a worse time. Any team trading for Isaac needs to worry if he recovers fully, and on top of this, they have to make a big offer on him - or match some other team’s offer, or lose him for nothing. They can’t afford that level of risk with the #1.

[dalton749]

I don’t know enough about the t-wolves young guys to go too in depth but I would start with something like:

Jonathan Issac, Terrence Ross
For
James Johnson and 1st overall

Issac is likely out all next season but when he comes back, there isn’t a better fit in the league next to Towns. Orlando recognizes that they will have to take a step back next year but takes a shot at drafting their next star player while hopefully reshuffling the rest of their roster.

The T-wolves Would be competitive next year but likely miss the playoffs while they have a year to put a full team around those 3.

I agree on the fit with Isaacs. Before he was hurt, I may have endorsed a deal like this. Unfortunately for the Magic, this injury couldn’t have come at a worse time. Any team trading for Isaac needs to worry if he recovers fully, and on top of this, they have to make a big offer on him - or match some other team’s offer, or lose him for nothing. They can’t afford that level of risk with the #1.

Yea I get the position of it being a big risk for Minny I just love the fit of it if things work out and Issac returns to form. Maybe some kind of pick stipulations going the other way to mitigate the risk but I have no idea how that would work.

It’s certainly make or break for minny and my ass isn’t on the line so I chose to be optimistic that they’d be putting a dpoy next to towns and getting into contention 2 years from now.

[100proof]

I will take a crack at it.

IMO Wolves need some defense on the wings. So I propose:

#1 and Jacob Evans to NYK
#27(NYK) , #33, Jamess Johnson and Jarret Culver to Kings
#8, Harrison Barnes, Frank Ntilikina and 2021 Dallas 1st (From NYK) to Wolves.

Knicks get the number 1 pick
Kings add a first and an early second and shed long term salary commitment
Wolves move down in the first and add 2 defensive capapble players.
Draft BPA at 8 and 14 (should line up for an athletic pf or 3andd sf in that spot.

resign Malik Beasley

Frank
Russell
Beasley
Barnes
KAT

[Domejandro]

I will take a crack at it.

IMO Wolves need some defense on the wings. So I propose:

#1 and Jacob Evans to NYK
#27(NYK) , #33, Jamess Johnson and Jarret Culver to Kings
#8, Harrison Barnes, Frank Ntilikina and 2021 Dallas 1st (From NYK) to Wolves.

Knicks get the number 1 pick
Kings add a first and an early second and shed long term salary commitment
Wolves move down in the first and add 2 defensive capapble players.
Draft BPA at 8 and 14 (should line up for an athletic pf or 3andd sf in that spot.

resign Malik Beasley

Frank
Russell
Beasley
Barnes
KAT

I personally do not see Frank Ntilikina, #27, and Dallas’ 2021 First as nearly enough to move up from #8 to #1.

[Texas Chuck]

I personally do not see Frank Ntilikina, #27, and Dallas’ 2021 First as nearly enough to move up from #8 to #1.

me either. And if I'm honest I'm surprised how many posters itt traded the 1st overall pick for very underwhelming return. I think they are off on the value and the "this is a terrible draft" trope has gotten way overblown. But even if they are correct on the value and I'm the one off-base, just no reason for the Wolves to take that value. Much better off taking Edwards and seeing if they can develop him.

I mean most of the ideas itt involving #1 feel achievable with #17 or close enough to it.

[Domejandro]

I personally do not see Frank Ntilikina, #27, and Dallas’ 2021 First as nearly enough to move up from #8 to #1.

me either. And if I'm honest I'm surprised how many posters itt traded the 1st overall pick for very underwhelming return. I think they are off on the value and the "this is a terrible draft" trope has gotten way overblown. But even if they are correct on the value and I'm the one off-base, just no reason for the Wolves to take that value. Much better off taking Edwards and seeing if they can develop him.

I mean most of the ideas itt involving #1 feel achievable with #17 or close enough to it.

The big reason people call this Draft “trash” is because the season did not finish (hype is built through March Madness), the top prospect going into the season ended up not even playing, and LaMelo Ball played in Australia. If Ball and Wiseman play in the NCAA, basketball he perception of the Draft wouldn’t be so negative.

LaMelo in particular is a fascinating prospect who is at least 6’7”, is arguably the best passer his age in the world, is a phenomenal ball handler, creative finisher, and isn’t afraid of taking open shots. The fact that he didn’t know how three-man weave drills worked until going into Australia shows how little real basketball training he has received over the years. I find him very intriguing as a prospect, narratives about his family aside.

[Midw35t]

How is Edwards projected defensively?
And doesn't Ball have good defensive potential with his size?
I almost think Ball would be a good fit next to Russell. He can help take the tougher assignment in the back court, take some PG load off of Russell (and as back-up PG) and allows Russell off-ball more.

I wonder if they can trade down, even is slightly to get Ball and pick up an asset in the process?

Then maybe make a deal for Gordon and Ross with JJ, Culver, Okogie, Layman, #17 if needed. I think T.Ross is a very underrated player, even if the main target is AG here.

Sign Napier for the min for PG depth (played Russell before)
D.Carroll for the min as well as they need a guy like him, and he's played with Russell before as well and was a fan.

Resign Beasley and Jauncho assuming there won't be much cap and not much of a market for them, and thus reasonable deals.
MLE on Crowder and confuse opposing teams by putting Crowder and DMC out together.

D.Russell / Napier
L.Ball / Beasley
T.Ross / Crowder / DMC
A.Gordon / Hernangomez / Vanderbilt
K.Towns / Reid / Spellman
+
#17 (if they don't use in the AG trade)
Any value they get from trading down to L.Ball

That seems like a lot for AG.

[Midw35t]

Keep Saunders and give him a 3-Pt shooting galore.

Trade 1:

MIN in: Gordon, Ross, 2020 ORL 1st (#15).
MIN out: Layman, Johnson, MIN 2020 1st (#1), 2020 MIN 2nd (#33)

ORL in: Layman, Johnson, MIN 2020 1st (#1), 2020 MIN 2nd (#33)
ORL out: Gordon, Ross, 2020 ORL 1st (#15)

Wolves get good role players in value contracts to contend now, whle ORL rebuilds/tanks in '21 waiting for Isaac's recovery.

Trade 2:

MIN in: Rose, Kennard, 2020 DET 1st (#7)
MIN out: Culver, Okogie, 2020 ORL 1st (#15), 2020 BRO 1st (#17)

DET in: Culver, Okogie, 2020 ORL 1st (#15), 2020 BRO 1st (#17)
DET out: Rose, Kennard, 2020 DET 1st (#7)

Good players and a higher pick to MIN, DET gets more picks and a prospect.

Russell/Beasley/Vassell (#7)/Gordon/Towns
Rose/Kennard/Ross/Hernangomez/Reid

Maybe I'm stretching, tell me if any trade is unrealistic.

Both are very unrealistic. Two of the most promising young players on the Wolves, one which was #6 last year who Rosas traded up for, 2 mid firsts this year for #7, and one aging/injury prone player who already chose to leave MN and Kennard who I dont believe is worth his contract.

AG and Ross are not fetching a #1 pick, even with 15 included.

AG, Towns, Beasley, Kennard, DLO, Rose, Ross would cost about 120 combined.

[Midw35t]

#17+Johnson for Gordon, and then filling out the bench in free agency with the MLE, etc

Russell/Beasley/Edwards/Gordon/Towns is not a good defensive team at all, but should be potent enough offensively to get it done and make the playoffs as soon as next season if they catch the right breaks. I don't think this team is bad, but the bench has to improve.

That is what I would offer for AG as well. Swap 2nds if necessary.

[BullyKing]

#17+Johnson for Gordon, and then filling out the bench in free agency with the MLE, etc

Russell/Beasley/Edwards/Gordon/Towns is not a good defensive team at all, but should be potent enough offensively to get it done and make the playoffs as soon as next season if they catch the right breaks. I don't think this team is bad, but the bench has to improve.

That is what I would offer for AG as well. Swap 2nds if necessary.

I definitely think #17 and #31 is a lot closer for Gordon than anything involves #1

[shangrila]

I'll take a crack, though it's probably not quite the "slow burn" in the challenge.

Trades;

1 - NY gets #1, ATL gets #8 and #27, MIN gets #6 and NY '21 top 3/4 1st

Reason - A rumoured deal from a Hawks insider, it's contingent on NY giving up their own pick (they want to give up the Dallas '21 pick, which isn't enough). NY gets Ball, ATL snags an extra 1st for moving down 2 spots and MIN moves down to pick up a likely lottery pick in next year's draft.

2 - MIL gets Chris Paul, OKC gets James Johnson, Ersan Ilyasova, Robin Lopez, Dragan Bender, Donte DiVincenzo and #17, MIN gets Eric Bledsoe and #24

Reason - Just added to the popular Paul to MIL trade. MIL gets Paul, OKC gets expirings and a prospect plus a mid 1st and MIN gets an All Defence PG for moving down 7 spots and taking on his future salary.

3 - HOU gets Jake Layman, Josh Okogie, Jacob Evans and #33, MIN gets Robert Covington

Reason - This trade is fairly unrealistic, I know. It relies on Tillman being as financially screwed as I believe he is and thus trying to reduce salary at any cost. This trade does that while also giving them young pieces and a pick to sell to their fanbase. For MIN it returns one of the best defenders in the entire league.

At 6 I take Onyeka Okongwu and at 24 I take Jaden McDaniels (based off the Tankathon mock).

In FA I resign Malik Beasley to a 3yr, 45mil contract. I resign Juan Hernangomez to a 3yr, 21mil contract.

That leaves me with;

PG - Russell, Bledsoe
SG - Beasley, Nowell
SF - Covington, Culver, McDaniels
PF - Okongwu, Hernangomez, Vanderbilt
C - Towns, Reid

With two main lineup options around your 2 stars, either all defence (Bledsoe-Russell-Covington-Okongwu-Towns) or all offence (that SLU just swap Okongwu and Juancho).

You've got a handful of veterans, some excellent perimeter defenders, lots of shooting but still plenty of youth and essentially all of your future 1sts (sub the NY in for the MIN in '21). You can get at minimum a good 3/4 years out of Bled/Cov so have the time to find their replacement while competing for the playoffs and actually trying to build a respectable franchise in the meantime. And there's space to fill out the roster besides with only those 12 roster spots spoken for.

[Klomp]

One thing I'm reminded of is how Rosas and Saunders have repeatedly talked about player development being so important. You saw the beginnings of it from the Rockets, but they abandoned it once they remembered they're a bigger market and more bigger names will want to play there (see: Howard, Paul, Westbrook, etc). Similar situation in Brooklyn and Philadelphia. These are all places where current high-ranking Timberwolves front office members came from. I'm not sure they'll have that luxury in Minnesota, so development will probably be a bigger emphasis than quick fixes. They made room for and inserted Reid into the regular rotation before he was probably ready. They traded away veterans in front of Jordan McLaughlin before he was probably ready. These aren't flashy moves, but they're the types of moves I think Minnesota will continue to make going forward at least another year.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Timberwolves keep all their picks, cut or trade back-end roster fodder, and for their big move trade the expiring contract of James Johnson for a draft pick.

[pacers33granger]

The big reason people call this Draft “trash” is because the season did not finish (hype is built through March Madness), the top prospect going into the season ended up not even playing, and LaMelo Ball played in Australia. If Ball and Wiseman play in the NCAA, basketball he perception of the Draft wouldn’t be so negative.

The tourney would certainly have given some hype to some guys as it always does. But we've also seen a lot of intriguing guys like Wiseman and Ball get exposed in NCAA play. There's more guys who underwhelm like Barrett/Reddish than there are guys who show out like Zion. Right now Wiseman and Ball have enough excuses that people are missing weaknesses in their game. Someone like Mudiay is a good example of a guy who still got picked in the lotto despite every red flag showing up because people could argue against it that his style would work much better in the NBA. Ball in particular I think slides to late lotto at least if he plays in the NCAA.

I think this draft is seen as poor more because there isn't a clear elite talent here. There's a wealth of guys who could have long careers, well into the 2nd round. But those guys aren't exciting, especially after you dealt with a losing season and the prize is a guy whose most likely upside is a 10 year vet that's good enough to start a few of those years.

[YourBuddy]

Could be a good landing spot for Tobias Harris if the extra compensation to the Wolves is good enough. Wolves won’t have cap space for the foreseeable future anyway and want assets to make a future trade for a star.

[sonictecture]

Minnesota trades
Omari Spellman
2020 frp 1st overall
2020 sep 33rd overall

OKC trades
Shai Gilgeous Alexander
2021 Miami frp unprotected

Minnesota gives up the higher potential of the first round pick for the known of SGA who showed he can play with high end usage players and be productive. He is a three level scorer and defends his position.
The unprotected Miami pick gives the team a pick or trade asset.

OKC gives up the known production of SGA for the potential higher ceiling of the first round pick. OKC requests the high second as part of their rebuilding.

Minny resigns Beasley as a sixth man scorer and Hernangomez as a versatile forward. Minny keeps their defensive oriented wings and plays the best alongside the starters.

Minny Starters
Russell
SGA
Okogie/ Culvert
Hernangomez
Townes

Culvert
Beasley
Johnson
Reid

[Ducklett]

#17+Johnson for Gordon, and then filling out the bench in free agency with the MLE, etc

Russell/Beasley/Edwards/Gordon/Towns is not a good defensive team at all, but should be potent enough offensively to get it done and make the playoffs as soon as next season if they catch the right breaks. I don't think this team is bad, but the bench has to improve.

That is what I would offer for AG as well. Swap 2nds if necessary.

I definitely think #17 and #31 is a lot closer for Gordon than anything involves #1

I agree. Doesn't mean that AG is being traded for 17. It isn't close imo.

[shangrila]

Minnesota trades
Omari Spellman
2020 frp 1st overall
2020 sep 33rd overall

OKC trades
Shai Gilgeous Alexander
2021 Miami frp unprotected

Minnesota gives up the higher potential of the first round pick for the known of SGA who showed he can play with high end usage players and be productive. He is a three level scorer and defends his position.
The unprotected Miami pick gives the team a pick or trade asset.

OKC gives up the known production of SGA for the potential higher ceiling of the first round pick. OKC requests the high second as part of their rebuilding.

Minny resigns Beasley as a sixth man scorer and Hernangomez as a versatile forward. Minny keeps their defensive oriented wings and plays the best alongside the starters.

Minny Starters
Russell
SGA
Okogie/ Culvert
Hernangomez
Townes

Culvert
Beasley
Johnson
Reid

I do that easily. Why does OKC?

[jayjaysee]

Mine has Dallas involved, surprising right?

Min - JJ, Culver, Layman for Wright, Gordon, 31

Add some young-enough decent defense locked up on affordable deals.

Dallas - Wright, JJ, (Boban if needed for salary), 31 for Layman and JJ

Add some playable forwards and trim 5 mil off 2021. I feel like Dallas is getting too good a deal here though. Maybe 18 for 33 swap? Feels like an overpay still. Maybe JJ and Layman have less value than I think though. I don’t think they have much value..

Orlando - Gordon for Culver, Dallas’ JJ, (and maybe Boban for salary)

And Culver/Gordon swap should be an easy yes for Orlando.. JJ isn’t actually good. But he is a wing on his last year of his rookie contract..

Minnesota drafts Edwards, Bey, and one of the centers with range that might/should be there at 31...



So; Gordon, Bey, Edmond, Wright... Keep Beasley, but end up trading him after a season, or less depending on Edmond.

Use the MLE on Noel if you can and if you don’t think Naz and Spellman are going to take a step.