moocow007 wrote:MadGrinch wrote:moocow007 wrote:
Rose rarely defended as well and his assists per game based on the amount of touches he got and minutes played was really subpar.
What Edwards is is a very intelligent and sharp guy. I would strongly suggest that you watch his interview with Mike Schmitz where they spend time breaking down Edwards game. BY FAR, BY FAR Edwards was the smartest and sharpest guy he interviewed. Edwards recognized every play, what he did right and did wrong and what he should have done. Knowledge is half the battle. And the general consensus is that Edwards has the basketball IQ and tools to be a top tier defender. His 5.2rpg as a guard is among the tops in college basketball. Also what most scouts acknowledge is that Edwards also can create shots for others. It's really a matter of him maturing his game. I get the sense that folks are creating opinions of guys based on hype and rumor, and instead should be watching and studying him a little more closely. If I had one choice of one player to take (meaning if I was the GM and I had the 1st overall pick in this draft) I would take Edwards, no question and it wouldn't just be for his offense.
Hampton and Maledon? Neither guy can score and if we are going with the Derrick Rose model as an ideal "Thibs guard" (which, IF anyone is going to assume there even is a "Thibs guard" archetype, it would be Rose) they would be far far removed from what Thibs would want. Hampton is toolsy, that is it. He doesn't use his tools well on either side of the court. He struggles to create his own shot off the dribble and he's inconsistent on the defensive end. I don't see why in any form or fashion Thibs would want a guard like that. I think you may have a misconception of what type of a player is a "Thibs guard". The notion that Thibs only wants defensive players is a false one, not sure why folks keep assuming that. He want's guys that perform real well at the role that he needs them to perform in and for the most part the expectation for his guards has been to be able to carry the load offensively.
Thibs main guard went from Rose to Butler. Both guys can carry the load on the offensive end and both put pressure on opposing defenses to stop and allowed Thibs to control the pace and flow of the game. Thibs even said so himself, the goal on offense is to score in easy shot opportunities. That means you either have a guy that can facilitate easy shot opps for others (which Hampton doesn't do) or that can create easy shot opps for himself (which Hampton also cannot do).
Russell Westbrook would be about as close to a prime Derrick Rose type guy as you can get right now in the NBA that is gettable (which is why I even started this discussion as a "IF the goal is to get a 'Thibs' guard"). Kyrie Irving would be the other (he's obviously not gettable). A guy that can barrel the ball into opposing defenses and create shots, put pressure and allow Thibs to run his defensive schemes to dictate the other end. He didn't win by defense anymore than Phil Jackson won by defense or Chuck Daly won by defense. All those guys won by controlling the tempo and the pace of the entire game to where his team were able to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. And a big part of that was controlling things on the defensive end (by systemic team play) but also on the offensive end (usually led by at least one elite shot creator that you can always rely on to keep opposing teams on their heels).
your whole premise is that Rose is the ideal Thibs point guard despite the fact that even you acknowledge he doesn't really hold up to the principles Thibs espouses
according to what Thibs says he wants , in truth it is probably Chris Paul
its worth noting Thibs played Butler his career high in minutes before he could score , so scoring is probably not as high on his priorities as you are making it just off of facts
You're not really reading what I'm saying and just trying to go on the defensive. You yourself have already changed your mind on what type of PG Thibs is really after. That says something doesn't it?
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no my point hasn't changed
a "thibs" guard is one who most easily identifiable by the principles he has espoused (making the extra pass , corner 3's, sacrificing on defense , getting to the line , etc)
if you go by that and look to the draft , that is hampton and maledon, you say that can't score so it can't be them , but its really not the point , Thibs for lack of a better phrase wants players who play" the right way"
if you go by who has played for him its kirk and butler
if you go by how he has spoken of players , (a day or so ago he spoke of butler in that way)
if i took a look around the nba to see who that resembles , its chris paul.
you are under the impression its rose , and truthfully i can't understand why , if anything Thibs has to work around Rose's tunnel vision as a point guard and lapses on defense and used him primarily as a scorer and its one of the reasons Derrick failed in a knicks uniform and as a cav, he's getting better at that part of the game now, but its not a strength
he is simply not the kind of player , who makes extra passes or deliberately makes a pass to manipulate an offense even if it doesn't get him an assist but instead a hockey assist, he gets results by attacking and forcing defenses to make his decisions easy, nor is he the type of player who embodies Thib's coaching on defense
there is a reason after the presser when Thibs was talking about what he wanted as the pillars of the team posters quickly thought of Frank and not the most derrick rose-like player on the roster which is dennis smith jr. who is a much better penetrator and scorer generally than ntilikina...its simply not as important as you are making out to be.
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