Nuggets Trades

[The Rebel]

The problem with Will Barton is not Will Barton, but Jokic-Murray-Porter Nuggets. Barton is a bad fit for Jokic point-center system, Barton has a kryptonite effect on Murray, and Barton eats Porter's minutes. He has no future in Denver and should be traded now when his trade value is on the peak after the successful 2019-20 season.

...Harris+Barton+Bol+#22 for Jrue+#39+#42+#60...

I'm still with this my old proposal to the Pelicans... Murray-Jrue-Porter-Grant-Jokic with Morris and one useful backup big should be enough for the ring in the next 2-3 seasons if not already in 2021!

I would be open to trading Harris for Jrue, fact is I would probably do this deal, but I do not see the Pelicans doing it. While Harris partially replaces Jrue, they don't need Barton if they are bringing back and Ingram and Zion is a PF. For that matter their next best prospect is a Center. It will likely have to be a 3 team deal.

[The Rebel]

As the season ended, Millsap, PLumlee, Craig, Vonleh, and Grant are now free agents. That is a lot of minutes to replace, and it looks like we have limited depth to help with that.

I think we are bringing back Grant with the starting job and a contract that is going to be starter money. So that puts our depth chart as

Murray/ Morris/ Dozier
Harris/Barton
MPJ/ KBD/ Cancar
Grant/ Bol
Jokic

the 22nd pick
and all future picks.
The full MLE and the LLE


The question is who do you target to replace those free agents?

[NuggetsWY]

Grant is the only FA we have that I'd like to see return; but ...

I fully expect Grant back. But with the playoffs he just had, I expect he's going to cost quite a bit.
I also believe there is a chance they bring back Millsap, if no one else makes him a large offer.
It wouldn't shock me if they brought back Craig, since Malone seems to like him - somewhat.
It wouldn't surprise me if they brought Vonleh back as an end-of-the-bench insurance policy.
Plumlee is the puzzle. After the playoffs he just had, his market isn't going to be big, but Malone seems like him. If no one else makes decent offer, I can see the Nuggets bringing him back too.

We won't have much cap space, so unless we do a sign-n-trade; what else can we do?

If the Nuggets trade Jokic, Murray, or Porter; I'd be shocked.

Barton & Harris both have rather large contracts for what they bring IMO. If we trade one or both, it's going to probably cost us some picks. I'd love to keep Morris & Dozier (two-way) & Bol (two-way) but if we add one or two of them into a deal with Harris and/or Barton, plus some picks ... maybe we could get someone.

Jrue Holiday would be my first target. He'd be an ideal fit in Denver IMO. I just don't see how we could get New Orleans to accept anything we'd be willing to offer.

Bradley Beal would be a nice fit in Denver also. But again, I'm not sure how we could pry him loose. Washington over-values him almost as much as we over-value some of our players.

One of my favorite targets would be Robert Covington. If Houston decides to blow things up, he might be available for Barton or Harris plus Morris OR Dozier OR Bol plus a pick or two.

Another favorite would be Aaron Gordon. Orlando needs to trade him and while I'm not a big fan of his fit in Denver, it could be worth a try - especially as a bench player for when Jokic is resting.

Minnesota might be willing to trade James Johnson for even less than Covington. He'd be a decent first-forward-off-the-bench.

Veteran bigs? Do you think we might want Randle & Gibson? Do you think New York would make a deal for Harris & Barton plus Morris or Dozier or Bol and some picks?

[The Rebel]

Grant is the only FA we have that I'd like to see return; but ...

I fully expect Grant back. But with the playoffs he just had, I expect he's going to cost quite a bit.
I also believe there is a chance they bring back Millsap, if no one else makes him a large offer.
It wouldn't shock me if they brought back Craig, since Malone seems to like him - somewhat.
It wouldn't surprise me if they brought Vonleh back as an end-of-the-bench insurance policy.
Plumlee is the puzzle. After the playoffs he just had, his market isn't going to be big, but Malone seems like him. If no one else makes decent offer, I can see the Nuggets bringing him back too.

We won't have much cap space, so unless we do a sign-n-trade; what else can we do?

We have the 2 exceptions which are the non-taxpayer MLE (which starts at about $9.7 million a year and can be broken up between players) and the BAE or LLE (which pays about $3.7 million per year for 2 years) whatever they call it these days. And of course trades and sign and trades.

If the Nuggets trade Jokic, Murray, or Porter; I'd be shocked.

Barton & Harris both have rather large contracts for what they bring IMO. If we trade one or both, it's going to probably cost us some picks. I'd love to keep Morris & Dozier (two-way) & Bol (two-way) but if we add one or two of them into a deal with Harris and/or Barton, plus some picks ... maybe we could get someone.

Jrue Holiday would be my first target. He'd be an ideal fit in Denver IMO. I just don't see how we could get New Orleans to accept anything we'd be willing to offer.

Bradley Beal would be a nice fit in Denver also. But again, I'm not sure how we could pry him loose. Washington over-values him almost as much as we over-value some of our players.

One of my favorite targets would be Robert Covington. If Houston decides to blow things up, he might be available for Barton or Harris plus Morris OR Dozier OR Bol plus a pick or two.

Another favorite would be Aaron Gordon. Orlando needs to trade him and while I'm not a big fan of his fit in Denver, it could be worth a try - especially as a bench player for when Jokic is resting.

If you agree that Grant will be likely coming back, than what role do you envision for Gordon or Covington? Grant is a better defender and significantly better as a spot up shooter than Gordon and while Covington is a better than Grant at both defense and spot up shooting is the difference worth the assets you have to give up?

Minnesota might be willing to trade James Johnson for even less than Covington. He'd be a decent first-forward-off-the-bench.

Veteran bigs? Do you think we might want Randle & Gibson? Do you think New York would make a deal for Harris & Barton plus Morris or Dozier or Bol and some picks?

The issue with Johnson is that he is making $16 million a year, we would have to trade Barton plus a minimum contract to even get him back or Harris straight up, and than that is a lot of money to pay for a bench forward and I do not want to give the Twolves any defenders, that is their biggest need.

Personally I think Gibson is past done, he is worse than bringing back Millsap as a starter.

Randle I have no interest in, he is good at getting stats, terrible at defense other than cheap shots, and he reportedly has attitude issues.

[NuggetsWY]

If you agree that Grant will be likely coming back, than what role do you envision for Gordon or Covington? Grant is a better defender and significantly better as a spot up shooter than Gordon and while Covington is a better than Grant at both defense and spot up shooting is the difference worth the assets you have to give up?

I'd envision them as potential starters or bench players. A three-man forward rotation of Porter, Grant, Gordon-Covington. 96 mpg at forward divided by 3 is 32 mpg. Plus, there are always the inevitable injuries. I think there is room for three solid forwards.

Minnesota might be willing to trade James Johnson for even less than Covington. He'd be a decent first-forward-off-the-bench.

Veteran bigs? Do you think we might want Randle & Gibson? Do you think New York would make a deal for Harris & Barton plus Morris or Dozier or Bol and some picks?

The issue with Johnson is that he is making $16 million a year, we would have to trade Barton plus a minimum contract to even get him back or Harris straight up, and than that is a lot of money to pay for a bench forward and I do not want to give the Twolves any defenders, that is their biggest need.

That is exactly why I'm not as confident that we'd want him. He'd be my third choice for a forward.

Personally I think Gibson is past done, he is worse than bringing back Millsap as a starter.

Randle I have no interest in, he is good at getting stats, terrible at defense other than cheap shots, and he reportedly has attitude issues.

Exactly why I'm not a big fan of either. But they would add bench experience and given limited minutes, I think they would be somewhat acceptable.

I'd love a third forward that can fit in for serious minutes. But if we can't get that, I'd like someone that can step in if there's an injury. Cancar & Bol are "development stage" - I'm not convinced they can be relied on. I just hate the idea of Barton playing SF, especially against teams like the Clippers & Lakers with their larger lineups.

[skywalker33]

To all those DISGRUNTLED posters who feel we should have never traded Malik Beasley, perhaps there was more to the trade than just salary cap implications

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/259704/Malik-Beasley-Arrested-For-Marijuana-Possession-Receiving-Concealing-Stolen-Property

[NuggetsWY]

To all those DISGRUNTLED posters who feel we should have never traded Malik Beasley, perhaps there was more to the trade than just salary cap implications

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/259704/Malik-Beasley-Arrested-For-Marijuana-Possession-Receiving-Concealing-Stolen-Property

Guilty or not - it's the kind of people someone hangs out with that affects their choices. For example; Jokic hangs out with his two brothers. You don't hear about LeBron getting in trouble with bar fights or drug possession --- and so many other examples.

Remember back to Ty Lawson hanging with his friends and smoking a certain type of pipe on social media for another example. See also Carmelo Anthony and the friend who left some marijuana in Melo's backpack.

Granted, not all drug arrests involve friends but most people use marijuana and most other illegal substances around others.

[The Rebel]

To all those DISGRUNTLED posters who feel we should have never traded Malik Beasley, perhaps there was more to the trade than just salary cap implications

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/259704/Malik-Beasley-Arrested-For-Marijuana-Possession-Receiving-Concealing-Stolen-Property

I will wait to judge until more information comes out. Half the people I know have weed and guns in their home, so I cannot say much on that. I will say that stolen goods does not sound good.

I know a guy who handles club promotions in Denver. He told me a few weeks ago that Beasley was running with a bad crowd and had a girl who was pure trouble before they traded him.

All that being said you cannot convince me that we didn't need his offense off the bench since the trade deadline. We may still be playing refs and all if we had him when Jokic and Murray go to the bench.

[The Rebel]

If you agree that Grant will be likely coming back, than what role do you envision for Gordon or Covington? Grant is a better defender and significantly better as a spot up shooter than Gordon and while Covington is a better than Grant at both defense and spot up shooting is the difference worth the assets you have to give up?

I'd envision them as potential starters or bench players. A three-man forward rotation of Porter, Grant, Gordon-Covington. 96 mpg at forward divided by 3 is 32 mpg. Plus, there are always the inevitable injuries. I think there is room for three solid forwards.

I can see that argument, but the issue to me is lack of versatility. Who is going to guard undersized Sfs and who is going to guard large PFs? To me MPJ once he develops is going to be best guarding large SFs and spread 4, which is also the guys Grant and those 2 you listed do best.

Personally I would rather see a 2/3 that can keep up with the larger SGs and smaller SFs and a 4/5 that can play minutes at Center. even if that is Barton I would prefer that then to spend the limited cap space we have to a guy that has the same strengths as 2 of our players.

Minnesota might be willing to trade James Johnson for even less than Covington. He'd be a decent first-forward-off-the-bench.

Veteran bigs? Do you think we might want Randle & Gibson? Do you think New York would make a deal for Harris & Barton plus Morris or Dozier or Bol and some picks?

The issue with Johnson is that he is making $16 million a year, we would have to trade Barton plus a minimum contract to even get him back or Harris straight up, and than that is a lot of money to pay for a bench forward and I do not want to give the Twolves any defenders, that is their biggest need.

That is exactly why I'm not as confident that we'd want him. He'd be my third choice for a forward.

The only way I would want Johnson was if Grant left, at his age with his expiring deal he has some value for the short term but I would rather keep Grant.

Personally I think Gibson is past done, he is worse than bringing back Millsap as a starter.

Randle I have no interest in, he is good at getting stats, terrible at defense other than cheap shots, and he reportedly has attitude issues.

Exactly why I'm not a big fan of either. But they would add bench experience and given limited minutes, I think they would be somewhat acceptable.

I'd love a third forward that can fit in for serious minutes. But if we can't get that, I'd like someone that can step in if there's an injury. Cancar & Bol are "development stage" - I'm not convinced they can be relied on. I just hate the idea of Barton playing SF, especially against teams like the Clippers & Lakers with their larger lineups.

KBD should be much further along the development process than Cancar or Bol, he did play meaningful minutes for the Twolves and wasn't terrible. I would prefer he and Cancar fight for minutes at the backup forward spots as opposed to spending a bunch of money on another one.

I would rather pick up guys like Zach Collins, lauri Markennen, Jakob Poeltl, or someone like that. A guy who can backup Jokic capably for 15-20 mpg while also being able to step out to PF if the matchup dictates it for a few minutes and not totally clog the lane for offense. I would do everything I could to turn Barton, Morris, Bol, and the pick into 1 of those guys and a solid bench SG/SF that can create on their own a little, hit open shots, and play defense.

[NuggetsWY]

Spoiler:

If you agree that Grant will be likely coming back, than what role do you envision for Gordon or Covington? Grant is a better defender and significantly better as a spot up shooter than Gordon and while Covington is a better than Grant at both defense and spot up shooting is the difference worth the assets you have to give up?

I'd envision them as potential starters or bench players. A three-man forward rotation of Porter, Grant, Gordon-Covington. 96 mpg at forward divided by 3 is 32 mpg. Plus, there are always the inevitable injuries. I think there is room for three solid forwards.

I can see that argument, but the issue to me is lack of versatility. Who is going to guard undersized Sfs and who is going to guard large PFs? To me MPJ once he develops is going to be best guarding large SFs and spread 4, which is also the guys Grant and those 2 you listed do best.

Personally I would rather see a 2/3 that can keep up with the larger SGs and smaller SFs and a 4/5 that can play minutes at Center. even if that is Barton I would prefer that then to spend the limited cap space we have to a guy that has the same strengths as 2 of our players.

Minnesota might be willing to trade James Johnson for even less than Covington. He'd be a decent first-forward-off-the-bench.

Veteran bigs? Do you think we might want Randle & Gibson? Do you think New York would make a deal for Harris & Barton plus Morris or Dozier or Bol and some picks?

The issue with Johnson is that he is making $16 million a year, we would have to trade Barton plus a minimum contract to even get him back or Harris straight up, and than that is a lot of money to pay for a bench forward and I do not want to give the Twolves any defenders, that is their biggest need.

That is exactly why I'm not as confident that we'd want him. He'd be my third choice for a forward.

The only way I would want Johnson was if Grant left, at his age with his expiring deal he has some value for the short term but I would rather keep Grant.

Personally I think Gibson is past done, he is worse than bringing back Millsap as a starter.

Randle I have no interest in, he is good at getting stats, terrible at defense other than cheap shots, and he reportedly has attitude issues.

Exactly why I'm not a big fan of either. But they would add bench experience and given limited minutes, I think they would be somewhat acceptable.

I'd love a third forward that can fit in for serious minutes. But if we can't get that, I'd like someone that can step in if there's an injury. Cancar & Bol are "development stage" - I'm not convinced they can be relied on. I just hate the idea of Barton playing SF, especially against teams like the Clippers & Lakers with their larger lineups.

KBD should be much further along the development process than Cancar or Bol, he did play meaningful minutes for the Twolves and wasn't terrible. I would prefer he and Cancar fight for minutes at the backup forward spots as opposed to spending a bunch of money on another one.

I would rather pick up guys like Zach Collins, lauri Markennen, Jakob Poeltl, or someone like that. A guy who can backup Jokic capably for 15-20 mpg while also being able to step out to PF if the matchup dictates it for a few minutes and not totally clog the lane for offense. I would do everything I could to turn Barton, Morris, Bol, and the pick into 1 of those guys and a solid bench SG/SF that can create on their own a little, hit open shots, and play defense.

I totally understand what you are saying. I see Covington as the ideal forward for our team, assuming we re-sign Grant. The others are less than ideal, but each can provide some help. If we don't want to overpay for someone less than ideal, then it's time to play Bates-Diop & Cancar and find out what they can do.

If we were to acquire a guard, Jrue Holiday would be my first choice and Bradley Beal a close second.

I understand what you are saying about a wing that can play both guard & forward, but to get one that is effective at both ends of the court is virtually impossible these days. Re-signing Craig shouldn't be real costly. Between Harris & Craig & Bates-Diop, we have some bench wings. I do not see any of them as NBA starters at this point. If we do not acquire a two-way SG, then I'd like to see Morris or Dozier starting alongside Murray.

I hope we do not re-sign Plumlee, but without him, our only backup center is Bol - and I don't see him as NBA ready - yet. We may have to settle for less than ideal as a backup center and draft a potential and live with that.

Lots of questions: Backup center --- Backup PF --- Backup SF --- Starting SG and probably in that order IMO

[THE J0KER]

After the WCF2020 success Malone is here to stay, and we are at risk to have a new Nurkic/Beasley/Juancho case in Porter, but this time future all-star player is on stake. You all know how I respect Porter's talent, but I'm also year after year impressed by Malone's stubbornness too. So let's try this revolutionary new idea:

Porter, #22, Harris, Barton
for
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Sign&Trade (2+1) deals with OKC Gallinari and Noel

Murray-SGA-Galo-Grant-Jokic will be NBA best offensively lineup since Durant's Warriors, and Bol, Morris, and Noel will bring deep roster. Despite for me MPJ have higher ceiling than SGA, fact is that SGA is already established young star without injury flags, so his trade market price is higher right now. Canadian backcourt duo will be already among best in the league despite both are under-23, and cap will be cleared for the SGA max deal next summer. This deal will also better suit Bol Bol's development with veteran Gallinari restricted minutes during the regular season around 25 (Miami used veteran Dragic on the very smart way past two seasons).

[NuggetsWY]

After the WCF2020 success Malone is here to stay, and we are at risk to have a new Nurkic/Beasley/Juancho case in Porter, but this time future all-star player is on stake. You all know how I respect Porter's talent, but I'm also year after year impressed by Malone's stubbornness too. So let's try this revolutionary new idea:

Porter, #22, Harris, Barton
for
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Sign&Trade (2+1) deals with OKC Gallinari and Noel

Murray-SGA-Galo-Grant-Jokic will be NBA best offensively lineup since Durant's Warriors, and Bol, Morris, and Noel will bring deep roster. Despite for me MPJ have higher ceiling than SGA, fact is that SGA is already established young star without injury flags, so his trade market price is higher right now. Canadian backcourt duo will be already among best in the league despite both are under-23, and cap will be cleared for the SGA max deal next summer. This deal will also better suit Bol Bol's development with veteran Gallinari restricted minutes during the regular season around 25 (Miami used veteran Dragic on the very smart way past two seasons).

Not trying to be negative here, but Malone would probably refuse to play Gilgeous-Alexander because his defense wasn't adequate. While I like Gallinari, he doesn't fit well with the Nuggets - unless it is when Jokic is off the court, then it would be really nice to have him. I'm not a fan of Noel, but as a backup, yes - I guess I'd accept the trade - but I wouldn't like it. I think OKC should include one or two 1sts with it.

[THE J0KER]

After the WCF2020 success Malone is here to stay, and we are at risk to have a new Nurkic/Beasley/Juancho case in Porter, but this time future all-star player is on stake. You all know how I respect Porter's talent, but I'm also year after year impressed by Malone's stubbornness too. So let's try this revolutionary new idea:

Porter, #22, Harris, Barton
for
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Sign&Trade (2+1) deals with OKC Gallinari and Noel

Murray-SGA-Galo-Grant-Jokic will be NBA best offensively lineup since Durant's Warriors, and Bol, Morris, and Noel will bring deep roster. Despite for me MPJ have higher ceiling than SGA, fact is that SGA is already established young star without injury flags, so his trade market price is higher right now. Canadian backcourt duo will be already among best in the league despite both are under-23, and cap will be cleared for the SGA max deal next summer. This deal will also better suit Bol Bol's development with veteran Gallinari restricted minutes during the regular season around 25 (Miami used veteran Dragic on the very smart way past two seasons).

Not trying to be negative here, but Malone would probably refuse to play Gilgeous-Alexander because his defense wasn't adequate. While I like Gallinari, he doesn't fit well with the Nuggets - unless it is when Jokic is off the court, then it would be really nice to have him. I'm not a fan of Noel, but as a backup, yes - I guess I'd accept the trade - but I wouldn't like it. I think OKC should include one or two 1sts with it.

Malone is not that obsessed with a defense like he is acting. His favorite player in Kings was Isaiah Thomas and in Denver Will Barton and Jamal Murray, and he gave-up from Nurkic very fast. After all, we can trade SGA faster and better than MPJ if the lineup not works.

BTW there is news that Oladipo wants to leave Indiana, which is now a team in the rebuilding process. No signs that Oladipo will ever recover close to an all-star level which he has before the injury. But this is interesting news because the Pacers were once the team most interested in Will Barton, and once Gary Harris was part of three-team trade rumors to land in Indiana. We can send Harris, Barton, Bol, and #22 to get Brogdon and Bitadze.

[skywalker33]

After the WCF2020 success Malone is here to stay, and we are at risk to have a new Nurkic/Beasley/Juancho case in Porter, but this time future all-star player is on stake. You all know how I respect Porter's talent, but I'm also year after year impressed by Malone's stubbornness too. So let's try this revolutionary new idea:

Porter, #22, Harris, Barton
for
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Sign&Trade (2+1) deals with OKC Gallinari and Noel

Murray-SGA-Galo-Grant-Jokic will be NBA best offensively lineup since Durant's Warriors, and Bol, Morris, and Noel will bring deep roster. Despite for me MPJ have higher ceiling than SGA, fact is that SGA is already established young star without injury flags, so his trade market price is higher right now. Canadian backcourt duo will be already among best in the league despite both are under-23, and cap will be cleared for the SGA max deal next summer. This deal will also better suit Bol Bol's development with veteran Gallinari restricted minutes during the regular season around 25 (Miami used veteran Dragic on the very smart way past two seasons).

Not trying to be negative here, but Malone would probably refuse to play Gilgeous-Alexander because his defense wasn't adequate. While I like Gallinari, he doesn't fit well with the Nuggets - unless it is when Jokic is off the court, then it would be really nice to have him. I'm not a fan of Noel, but as a backup, yes - I guess I'd accept the trade - but I wouldn't like it. I think OKC should include one or two 1sts with it.

Malone is not that obsessed with a defense like he is acting. His favorite player in Kings was Isaiah Thomas and in Denver Will Barton and Jamal Murray, and he gave-up from Nurkic very fast. After all, we can trade SGA faster and better than MPJ if the lineup not works.

BTW there is news that Oladipo wants to leave Indiana, which is now a team in the rebuilding process. No signs that Oladipo will ever recover close to an all-star level which he has before the injury. But this is interesting news because the Pacers were once the team most interested in Will Barton, and once Gary Harris was part of three-team trade rumors to land in Indiana. We can send Harris, Barton, Bol, and #22 to get Brogdon and Bitadze.

Again, I don't know where you come up with these crazy statements but I don't buy this at all. We were getting our buts whipped in the playoffs until GHarris came back, it changed the trajectory of our playoffs. And while he's not known for his D, Barton can play some adequate defense himself. Getting rid of Nurkic was an=n addition by subtraction, at the time he was becoming a locker room cancer detracting from our team chemistry.

As for either of your trades, I feel both are over the top depleting our depth. While I like SGA, I am tired of building our rivals and their roster, in this instance re-acquiring Gallo for 1-2 years at best seems like another bad division trade IMO.

[The Rebel]

Spoiler:

I'd envision them as potential starters or bench players. A three-man forward rotation of Porter, Grant, Gordon-Covington. 96 mpg at forward divided by 3 is 32 mpg. Plus, there are always the inevitable injuries. I think there is room for three solid forwards.

I can see that argument, but the issue to me is lack of versatility. Who is going to guard undersized Sfs and who is going to guard large PFs? To me MPJ once he develops is going to be best guarding large SFs and spread 4, which is also the guys Grant and those 2 you listed do best.

Personally I would rather see a 2/3 that can keep up with the larger SGs and smaller SFs and a 4/5 that can play minutes at Center. even if that is Barton I would prefer that then to spend the limited cap space we have to a guy that has the same strengths as 2 of our players.

Minnesota might be willing to trade James Johnson for even less than Covington. He'd be a decent first-forward-off-the-bench.

Veteran bigs? Do you think we might want Randle & Gibson? Do you think New York would make a deal for Harris & Barton plus Morris or Dozier or Bol and some picks?

That is exactly why I'm not as confident that we'd want him. He'd be my third choice for a forward.

The only way I would want Johnson was if Grant left, at his age with his expiring deal he has some value for the short term but I would rather keep Grant.

Exactly why I'm not a big fan of either. But they would add bench experience and given limited minutes, I think they would be somewhat acceptable.

I'd love a third forward that can fit in for serious minutes. But if we can't get that, I'd like someone that can step in if there's an injury. Cancar & Bol are "development stage" - I'm not convinced they can be relied on. I just hate the idea of Barton playing SF, especially against teams like the Clippers & Lakers with their larger lineups.

KBD should be much further along the development process than Cancar or Bol, he did play meaningful minutes for the Twolves and wasn't terrible. I would prefer he and Cancar fight for minutes at the backup forward spots as opposed to spending a bunch of money on another one.

I would rather pick up guys like Zach Collins, lauri Markennen, Jakob Poeltl, or someone like that. A guy who can backup Jokic capably for 15-20 mpg while also being able to step out to PF if the matchup dictates it for a few minutes and not totally clog the lane for offense. I would do everything I could to turn Barton, Morris, Bol, and the pick into 1 of those guys and a solid bench SG/SF that can create on their own a little, hit open shots, and play defense.

I totally understand what you are saying. I see Covington as the ideal forward for our team, assuming we re-sign Grant. The others are less than ideal, but each can provide some help. If we don't want to overpay for someone less than ideal, then it's time to play Bates-Diop & Cancar and find out what they can do.

For me the problem becomes cost for Covington as compared to benefit. I think he is an upgrade from Grant, but the Rockets gave up Capela and a 1st and were thrilled with him. It is going to cost a fortune to get him just because the Rockets are going ot hold onto him if they plan to keep Harden and Westbrook (Westbrook not by choice at this point). They are going to try another run with a different coach and I think they will pick up a cheap center or two (in fact Plumlee would not shock me).

If we were to acquire a guard, Jrue Holiday would be my first choice and Bradley Beal a close second.

I think most Nuggets fans would be happy acquiring either one as long as it did not cost Murray, Jokic, or MPJ.

I understand what you are saying about a wing that can play both guard & forward, but to get one that is effective at both ends of the court is virtually impossible these days. Re-signing Craig shouldn't be real costly. Between Harris & Craig & Bates-Diop, we have some bench wings. I do not see any of them as NBA starters at this point. If we do not acquire a two-way SG, then I'd like to see Morris or Dozier starting alongside Murray.

[streamable][streamable][/streamable][/streamable][/quote]

I actually think guys are a lot more available then you seem to think, at least as far as an upgrade on Craig. Craig is a slightly better than average defender based on the numbers and my eye test this year, just about every team has 2 or 3 of those guys on their roster. I would prefer to take my chance on a relatively young guy that is a good defender and either has a good 3 or at least is developing 1. 1 guy I would actually like to go after is Chandler Hutchison, his 3 point shoot is already better than Craig and his defense is on par with Craig. He has started a few games for the Bulls, but he really likely is a 7th or 8th man for a team like us.

I hope we do not re-sign Plumlee, but without him, our only backup center is Bol - and I don't see him as NBA ready - yet. We may have to settle for less than ideal as a backup center and draft a potential and live with that.

Lots of questions: Backup center --- Backup PF --- Backup SF --- Starting SG and probably in that order IMO

There is a lot of free agent Center options, and with the way the position has been devalued over the years I think we can get a very good backup PF/C for the MLE or in a trade. Personally I would love Marc Gasol and than either draft a young big or trade for 1. That way you can play Gasol spot minutes, until we go against teams with 2 or 3 good bigs, than he can play a full rotation. He can still pass, hits good 3s, and is a very good big defender but he is aging and is not as effective against smaller teams.

[The Rebel]

After the WCF2020 success Malone is here to stay, and we are at risk to have a new Nurkic/Beasley/Juancho case in Porter, but this time future all-star player is on stake. You all know how I respect Porter's talent, but I'm also year after year impressed by Malone's stubbornness too. So let's try this revolutionary new idea:

Porter, #22, Harris, Barton
for
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Sign&Trade (2+1) deals with OKC Gallinari and Noel

Murray-SGA-Galo-Grant-Jokic will be NBA best offensively lineup since Durant's Warriors, and Bol, Morris, and Noel will bring deep roster. Despite for me MPJ have higher ceiling than SGA, fact is that SGA is already established young star without injury flags, so his trade market price is higher right now. Canadian backcourt duo will be already among best in the league despite both are under-23, and cap will be cleared for the SGA max deal next summer. This deal will also better suit Bol Bol's development with veteran Gallinari restricted minutes during the regular season around 25 (Miami used veteran Dragic on the very smart way past two seasons).

I'm sorry but SGA is a terrible defender and he would take the ball out of Murray and Jokic's hands. I just do not see him as a great fit. There is also no way I want gallo back, he is not nearly a good enough defender to play in our system. Plus I would easily take the long term of MPJ over SGA or Gallo.

[The Rebel]

After the WCF2020 success Malone is here to stay, and we are at risk to have a new Nurkic/Beasley/Juancho case in Porter, but this time future all-star player is on stake. You all know how I respect Porter's talent, but I'm also year after year impressed by Malone's stubbornness too. So let's try this revolutionary new idea:

Porter, #22, Harris, Barton
for
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Sign&Trade (2+1) deals with OKC Gallinari and Noel

Murray-SGA-Galo-Grant-Jokic will be NBA best offensively lineup since Durant's Warriors, and Bol, Morris, and Noel will bring deep roster. Despite for me MPJ have higher ceiling than SGA, fact is that SGA is already established young star without injury flags, so his trade market price is higher right now. Canadian backcourt duo will be already among best in the league despite both are under-23, and cap will be cleared for the SGA max deal next summer. This deal will also better suit Bol Bol's development with veteran Gallinari restricted minutes during the regular season around 25 (Miami used veteran Dragic on the very smart way past two seasons).

Not trying to be negative here, but Malone would probably refuse to play Gilgeous-Alexander because his defense wasn't adequate. While I like Gallinari, he doesn't fit well with the Nuggets - unless it is when Jokic is off the court, then it would be really nice to have him. I'm not a fan of Noel, but as a backup, yes - I guess I'd accept the trade - but I wouldn't like it. I think OKC should include one or two 1sts with it.

Malone is not that obsessed with a defense like he is acting. His favorite player in Kings was Isaiah Thomas and in Denver Will Barton and Jamal Murray, and he gave-up from Nurkic very fast. After all, we can trade SGA faster and better than MPJ if the lineup not works.

BTW there is news that Oladipo wants to leave Indiana, which is now a team in the rebuilding process. No signs that Oladipo will ever recover close to an all-star level which he has before the injury. But this is interesting news because the Pacers were once the team most interested in Will Barton, and once Gary Harris was part of three-team trade rumors to land in Indiana. We can send Harris, Barton, Bol, and #22 to get Brogdon and Bitadze.

I would not make that deal. Brogdon is a good fit, but that is an overpay and would leave us no depth at SG or SF. Also Indiana is not going to blow up the team, ownership will not allow it and never really has. They will try to get value back for Oladipo and continue on with their current team. Truth is with Oladipo's injury issues he may not have been in their long term plans anymore anyways with the emergence of Sabonis and Brogdon.

[The Rebel]

Denver sends out Morris and Barton for Wendell Carter JR, Tomas Satoransky, and Chandler Hutchison.

Chicago needs good attitudes in the lockerroom, a guy who can be the veteran leader, and Barton can do that as well as starting at SF with Otto Porter's injury issues or be their scorer off the bench. They also really need a pass 1st PG that can hit spot up shots, plus they get off Satoransky's contract.

We get a young PF/Center in CArter JR that regressed last year in Boylen's system but he has shown a lot of ability to defend the rim and play physical. He is also a solid passer. Hutchison I think is an upgrade for Craig's role, he is a bigger SG/SF that does just as well on defense, and is already a slightly better 3 point shooter. Satoransky is a bad contract, there is no way around it, he makes $10 million a year and is worth about $5 million if he is lucky. However he fits a need, he is a very good perimeter defender, that can create for himself and others, while being a decent spot up shooter. Pair SAtoransky and Dozier gives us 2 guards that can slash and create for themselves and others. If we have shooters at the 3 and 4 they can run pick and roll all night with Crater Jr.

[THE J0KER]

Denver sends out Morris and Barton for Wendell Carter JR, Tomas Satoransky, and Chandler Hutchison.

Wendell Carter JR is 21y old #7 pick from the already famous draft which already at 20 averaged a double-double. Why would Chicago Bulls give their 2nd biggest asset for nothing except in the case that Arturas Karnisovas still secretly working for Nuggets?

Chicago needs good attitudes in the lockerroom, a guy who can be the veteran leader, and Barton can do that as well as starting at SF with Otto Porter's injury issues or be their scorer off the bench. They also really need a pass 1st PG that can hit spot up shots, plus they get off Satoransky's contract.

Using the same logic Bulls can send to us *offer* Thaddeus Young and (S&D) Kris Dunn for Michael Portor jr, but why on the Earth we would take it seriously?

It is very easy to create a great (for Denver) trade which will be a great improvement for the Nuggets without care of value balance and what the other side needs. In eventual trades with rebuilding teams, I don't see we can make a trade without send assets, and if we lock Jokic-Murray-Porter our best asset now are Bol Bol and future firsts. We traded last summer FRP for expiring Grant, and that is a good example of how it works. In another trade we get FRP, but young players under a rookie contract Beasley, Juancho, and JV which we sent were 'assets' too.

Friendly connections with Bulls GM right now can be used only as 3-team deals, because players whose Bulls are ready to trade for more assets (Lavine and expiring Markkanen and O.Porter) are not so interesting for us. For example:

Chicago: Wall, Bol, Morris, WAS#9, DEN#22, WAS#37, DEN2022
Washington: LaVine, Harris, Barton
Denver: Beal

In this eventual blockbuster trade, you can see clear logic for all sides involved. Wizards using all-star Beal and #9 2020 pick to get rid of all-NBA worst Wall supermax contract, and get a new temporary franchise player in near all-star LaVine with two proven NBA starters (Harris and Barton), and cleaning cap for one notable free agent. Bulls restart their rebuilding process and doing what Nuggets do in 2014 using cap space and the current best player which they don't need anyway for tanking in the next two seasons, to gets several assets and alibi for tanking next two seasons without results (and grab 2021 and 2022 TOP5 picks). In 2022 summer they can trade the expiring Wall contract, sign a big name FA (or even two, they are a big market team), and start to compete with a young team full of assets and former TOP10 picks. Denver gets a true all-star without losing any of the best 4 players (Jokic-Murray-MPJ-Grant) with guaranteed status as TOP3 contender next 3 seasons.

[The Rebel]

Denver sends out Morris and Barton for Wendell Carter JR, Tomas Satoransky, and Chandler Hutchison.

Wendell Carter JR is 21y old #7 pick from the already famous draft which already at 20 averaged a double-double. Why would Chicago Bulls give their 2nd biggest asset for nothing except in the case that Arturas Karnisovas still secretly working for Nuggets?

Chicago needs good attitudes in the lockerroom, a guy who can be the veteran leader, and Barton can do that as well as starting at SF with Otto Porter's injury issues or be their scorer off the bench. They also really need a pass 1st PG that can hit spot up shots, plus they get off Satoransky's contract.

Using the same logic Bulls can send to us *offer* Thaddeus Young and (S&D) Kris Dunn for Michael Portor jr, but why on the Earth we would take it seriously?

It is very easy to create a great (for Denver) trade which will be a great improvement for the Nuggets without care of value balance and what the other side needs. In eventual trades with rebuilding teams, I don't see we can make a trade without send assets, and if we lock Jokic-Murray-Porter our best asset now are Bol Bol and future firsts. We traded last summer FRP for expiring Grant, and that is a good example of how it works. In another trade we get FRP, but young players under a rookie contract Beasley, Juancho, and JV which we sent were 'assets' too.

A 12 and 10 young big does not have near the value you seem to think, in today's NBA bigs are not considered all that valuable when they cannot dependably hit outside shots. Take a look around the league for the last few years, go see what bigs that are traded bring back, go see what kind of contracts they get, these days nobody is paying crap for them.

You also dramatically underrate what Barton and Morris are worth. Young starting PGs that can run the offense while being able to play on and off the ball and hit nearly 40% of their spot up 3s are like gold in today's NBA. Go take a look at the transactions, nobody is giving up guys like Morris, and when they do they get back more than anybody expects.

SG/SFs that are good on defense and can play on or off the ball are the 2nd most valuable type of player in today's NBA, nobody has them and everybody needs them to combat the 3 point shooters.

You also are ignoring that the Bulls are getting off a terrible contract, it is funny you talk about the Wizards using an all star type of player and a 9th overall pick to get off of Wall's deal but totally ignore the Bulls dumping salary in my deal. Getting off Satoransky would cost the Bulls a good 1st round pick and likely a 2nd round pick if they were to just try to dump him for pure cap space. Look what we had to give up to move Chandler and Faried, and when we did it there was still hope that they could go back to being productive starters with a change of scenery. Satoransky has never been and likely will never be a starting caliber player. That Nuggets deal was also before Coviid hit, and now money is likely to get even harder to move.

Friendly connections with Bulls GM right now can be used only as 3-team deals, because players whose Bulls are ready to trade for more assets (Lavine and expiring Markkanen and O.Porter) are not so interesting for us. For example:

Chicago: Wall, Bol, Morris, WAS#9, DEN#22, WAS#37, DEN2022
Washington: LaVine, Harris, Barton
Denver: Beal

In this eventual blockbuster trade, you can see clear logic for all sides involved. Wizards using all-star Beal and #9 2020 pick to get rid of all-NBA worst Wall supermax contract, and get a new temporary franchise player in near all-star LaVine with two proven NBA starters (Harris and Barton), and cleaning cap for one notable free agent. Bulls restart their rebuilding process and doing what Nuggets do in 2014 using cap space and the current best player which they don't need anyway for tanking in the next two seasons, to gets several assets and alibi for tanking next two seasons without results (and grab 2021 and 2022 TOP5 picks). In 2022 summer they can trade the expiring Wall contract, sign a big name FA (or even two, they are a big market team), and start to compete with a young team full of assets and former TOP10 picks. Denver gets a true all-star without losing any of the best 4 players (Jokic-Murray-MPJ-Grant) with guaranteed status as TOP3 contender next 3 seasons.

LMAO, you cannot be serious. The Bulls will not trade WCJ to fill huge needs they have, but they will trade Lavine while taking back Wall and killing all their cap space for the next 3 years?

When did the Nuggets trade their best player willingly? We all know that you did not follow the Nuggets prior to Jokic, so let me explain the whole Igoudala deal to you. He lied to the front office saying he was coming back, in negotiations with us and also Dallas until the Warriors got the Jazz to take back their bad contracts. It was a week after free agency started before we even found out he wasn't coming back, and all the good free agents were gone. We did the sign and trade because we had no choice and sent a 2nd round pick for Foye who the front office arranged to get in a sign and trade because we desperately needed a SG. We did not do it to tank, in fact the coach they hired was fired halfway through his 2nd season because ownership was not happy that the team had fell apart. We did not do it to rebuild, we did it because Connelly and Arturas panicked after Iguodala had played them. The Nuggets rebuilt by trading redundant players or veterans who were losing their minutes to the young guys for younger players they wanted and future picks, it was a 4 year process.

You do realize that there is a salary cap, and that Wall eats up over 40% of that despite the fact that he has played 73 games in the last 3 years and is trying to come back from an achilles tear. Nobody is taking him back while giving any value even with the 9th pick. If you think the Bulls brought in Karnisovas to just throw away the next 3 years than you obviously do not know much about the Bulls ownership. Karnisovas has made it pretty clear that he wants to try to build around Lavine and Markennen.


Not to mention the Wizards are giving up the 9th pick and Beal to dump wall and take back Lavine, Harris, and Barton? Why would they do that when they can get better than that package for Beal and keep Wall and the pick? this deal does not make them good enough to make a difference, and nobody is taking Wall back.


Also believe it or not most teams do not view having 5 picks in 1 draft as a good thing. Especially when they are already a young team.