WWE Raw Discussion III

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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1481 » by Amare_1_Knicks » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:18 pm

Flames24Rulz wrote:Sticking with the Rollins-Mysterio feud for far too long is typical WWE. It should've ended two PPV's ago, and instead, it just doesn't stop. Just like the insufferable Reigns-Corbin feud last year. Now they're dragging Rey's daughter into the feud? Enough.

And lol at Retribution. The names clinch the fact that they're never going to get over. It was a mess from the start, they waited far too long to actually identify who they were, and instead of actually saying something meaningful as to why they've resorted to tearing things up, they just spew a bunch of nonsense and pretend that they never had a history before they arrived on RAW and SD. Backstories are good for storylines, and they clearly had no plan of ever having one based on the names that they gave the characters.


You hit the nail on the head. The whole Retribution thing was always going to be a letdown storyline with a miserably unrewarding payoff and I think most recognized that (I know I certainly did). The ridiculous and just silly names were the icing on the cake. Whoever they turned out to be was always going to be a letdown, but now it’s just ridiculous and in one straight shot they not only blew the angle and stopped anyone from caring, they absolutely buried these guys (and I hate when people use that term).

The Rey-Rollins angle is endless. It was tiresome a few months ago when they did the preposterous ‘eye for an eye’ match. I didn’t see their interaction this past week, though but it sounds like it’s getting even more over the top. One saving grace has been that Dominik has been having some good matches/segments for a rookie.
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1482 » by Dominator83 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:28 am

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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1483 » by Scott Hall » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:54 pm

Pharaoh wrote:
Scott Hall wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Yes, things change in a major way if Sting essentially squashes Hogan in 97.

It begins the fracture of the NWO as Hall was next in line for a shot at the time. Think it was going to be the Feb PPV main event.

So the Jan PPV sees Sting beat Hogan in the rematch.

Feb PPV Hall should lose after Hogan's interference backfires.

This puts Hall & Nash against Hogan & someone (Steiner?) as the NWO splits apart.

Sting moves on to matches against Bret Hart, the NWO isn't run into the ground and a whole load of things are different.

But we got Hogan whining cause Sting wasn't in shape or tanned enough and Bischoff has eluded to some other personal issue Sting had at the time.

Anyway, we got what we got. And it wasn't the ending we should have got

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- Sting beat Hogan in the rematch at SuperBrawl which was the February PPV
- The nWo started fracturing 4 months after and the Wolf Pack was one of the most over factions in history
- Hogan never said anything about the match Bischoff did and Sting admitted it

Was I fan of that match? no

Do I get what they were doing from a business and storyline stand point? yes

Was Scott Hall in line for a World Tittle push after? maybe? I honestly can't remember but keep in mind the
meteoric rise of Goldberg during this time period. His debut match was in September 1997 on Nitro and he
got so over they had to put the belt on him by early July 1998 after beating Scott Hall and squashing Hogan
clean. So he most likely affected long term booking plans.

I said that I felt like the real mistake was the aftermath of the seeds they planted during that match going to waste
but after looking it up WCW's highest ratings period was the 3-4 months after that match and 3 of their top 10 PPV
Buyrates were the 3 PPVs that followed Starrcade 1997 so obviously that match had no negative affect at all.

Let's face it there is a lot of Hogan haters out there that think they know everything and act like they were in the
locker room. It's a bunch of smarks with an agenda that read stuff on the internet that take some of this folklore
and run with it to fit their narrative.

I don't know who even started this was it Meltzer? or Bret Hart still complaining about Wrestlemania 9? It's
funny to me that the guy who made Wrestling and is the biggest draw ever (maybe Austin?) gets crapped on
like he's some cancer who held everybody down yet I hear all these guys in their HOF speeches from DDP, Harlem Heat,
Goldberg, Honky Tonk Man etc etc acknowledge him for helping their careers.

You never hear the 90% of the good things this guy did for the industry it's the 10% supposed bad stuff he did that
these Internet Wrestling Geeks constantly bring up and take for gospel to fit their narrative.

Personally I think Nash becoming the head booker was the real problem and WCW panicked with WWF starting
to breathe down their neck as they started doing hot shot booking and would book these awesome main events
on paper that would constantly end in DQ finishes that went nowhere.

To me the real nail in the coffin or the beginning of the end was the Starrcade 1998 main event with Nash vs.
Goldberg and the streak ending with Scott Hall using the taser lol. Then a week later the Finger Point of Doom
which I was kind of meh about but acknowledge that everybody seemed to hate it.
Agree the wheels didn't fall off until the end of 98 - Bischoff has blamed the merger during the middle of that year but as you said Goldberg hit big so

Hall was supposed to get the shot in Feb 98 but plans changed and I think he got his shot on a Nitro but if you go with my idea above:

NWO fractures where it's Hogan & Steiner v Hall & Nash

Sting v Bret for a few months as Goldberg rises up the ranks. You have one of them put Goldberg over for the belt.

Sting, Bret, DDP, Steiner & Goldberg end up being the main dudes.

Nash reduces his matches as he takes the book. Hall ends up not being around much due to his personal issues. Hogan bails for months on end as usual and only comes back for the real big PPVs.

At this point they still had (if memory serves) Jericho, Benoit, Eddie in the mid card. Hart & Flair are the perfect guys to have them battle over the US title

Agree the company lost it's way in 98.

Agree Hogan gets way too much blame for a lot of things. People act like he's the only top guy who just wrestled against his buddies.

All the top guys do that! It's cause they trust those guys and keeping each other at the top of the card keeps you all making big money.

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Yeah I would've loved to seen Scott Hall as champ by the Spring/Summer of 1998 they already were playing up
that he was a Drunk on TV which to his credit was entertaining as hell but that most likely nuked any plans
to make him World Champ.

I watched the rematch of Sting vs. Hogan at Super Brawl and Sting was way more engaged and the match was
a lot better then the Starrcade match. One thing I didn't like was how they branched off to Hogan vs. Savage
from there since it's a match/feud we'd seen a thousand times.

I was trying to think from their point of view what were they thinking with Bret Hart? And I was like I guess if you
are them and you consistently beat WWF with Bret Hart and Steve Austin as their top guys and Vince breaks his
contract with Bret Hart and pleads him to go to the competitor and literally hands him to them you might be a
little skeptical. Like why should we make this guy the top guy and the face of the company when we've been killing
him and Vince literally hands us to him? Also Hogan vs. Bret Hart is a mega match and there wasn't any big PPVs
after Super Brawl for awhile. Maybe the next one is Bash at The Beach but the summer is the only time Rodman is
available and he's tied in with Hogan. Then the next big PPV would be Halloween Havoc but then the Ultimate
Warrior is willing to come out of obscurity and when ever you sign him he's not reliable to last a while so you better
get that rematch done quickly. They should've done Hogan vs. Hart at Starrcade 1998 but Hogan wasn't on the card
not sure if he was injured or what. Maybe they didn't want to undermine Goldberg since he was the champ and the
hottest thing in the biz and should be in the Main Event but a Hogan vs. Hart match would totally over shadow it
like Hogan vs. Rock did to Jericho vs. HHH at WM 18.
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1484 » by Scott Hall » Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:01 pm

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1485 » by Amare_1_Knicks » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:20 pm

Jeez, what kind of nonsense tweet was that from T-Bar. It doesn’t make a lick of sense and isn’t remotely believable.

... the company that you’ve been terrorizing hired you and your men because it was cheaper to pay you and put you on TV as active participants/wrestlers than it was to pay for security. I mean, wtf? It hurts my head to try to absorb that as a logical concept/statement.
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1486 » by tugs » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:17 am

Amare_1_Knicks wrote:Jeez, what kind of nonsense tweet was that from T-Bar. It doesn’t make a lick of sense and isn’t remotely believable.

... the company that you’ve been terrorizing hired you and your men because it was cheaper to pay you and put you on TV as active participants/wrestlers than it was to pay for security. I mean, wtf? It hurts my head to try to absorb that as a logical concept/statement.
Lol got confused as well. They're trying too hard
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1487 » by Scott Hall » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:08 pm

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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1488 » by The_Brecht » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:03 am

Great banter
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1489 » by Ruzious » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:50 pm

Scott Hall wrote:
Read on Twitter

T-Bar upped his twitter game.
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1490 » by tugs » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:38 am

It would have been a great burn if Randy shaded Christian with his one more match schtick
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1491 » by Pharaoh » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:30 pm

Scott Hall wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:
Scott Hall wrote:
- Sting beat Hogan in the rematch at SuperBrawl which was the February PPV
- The nWo started fracturing 4 months after and the Wolf Pack was one of the most over factions in history
- Hogan never said anything about the match Bischoff did and Sting admitted it

Was I fan of that match? no

Do I get what they were doing from a business and storyline stand point? yes

Was Scott Hall in line for a World Tittle push after? maybe? I honestly can't remember but keep in mind the
meteoric rise of Goldberg during this time period. His debut match was in September 1997 on Nitro and he
got so over they had to put the belt on him by early July 1998 after beating Scott Hall and squashing Hogan
clean. So he most likely affected long term booking plans.

I said that I felt like the real mistake was the aftermath of the seeds they planted during that match going to waste
but after looking it up WCW's highest ratings period was the 3-4 months after that match and 3 of their top 10 PPV
Buyrates were the 3 PPVs that followed Starrcade 1997 so obviously that match had no negative affect at all.

Let's face it there is a lot of Hogan haters out there that think they know everything and act like they were in the
locker room. It's a bunch of smarks with an agenda that read stuff on the internet that take some of this folklore
and run with it to fit their narrative.

I don't know who even started this was it Meltzer? or Bret Hart still complaining about Wrestlemania 9? It's
funny to me that the guy who made Wrestling and is the biggest draw ever (maybe Austin?) gets crapped on
like he's some cancer who held everybody down yet I hear all these guys in their HOF speeches from DDP, Harlem Heat,
Goldberg, Honky Tonk Man etc etc acknowledge him for helping their careers.

You never hear the 90% of the good things this guy did for the industry it's the 10% supposed bad stuff he did that
these Internet Wrestling Geeks constantly bring up and take for gospel to fit their narrative.

Personally I think Nash becoming the head booker was the real problem and WCW panicked with WWF starting
to breathe down their neck as they started doing hot shot booking and would book these awesome main events
on paper that would constantly end in DQ finishes that went nowhere.

To me the real nail in the coffin or the beginning of the end was the Starrcade 1998 main event with Nash vs.
Goldberg and the streak ending with Scott Hall using the taser lol. Then a week later the Finger Point of Doom
which I was kind of meh about but acknowledge that everybody seemed to hate it.
Agree the wheels didn't fall off until the end of 98 - Bischoff has blamed the merger during the middle of that year but as you said Goldberg hit big so

Hall was supposed to get the shot in Feb 98 but plans changed and I think he got his shot on a Nitro but if you go with my idea above:

NWO fractures where it's Hogan & Steiner v Hall & Nash

Sting v Bret for a few months as Goldberg rises up the ranks. You have one of them put Goldberg over for the belt.

Sting, Bret, DDP, Steiner & Goldberg end up being the main dudes.

Nash reduces his matches as he takes the book. Hall ends up not being around much due to his personal issues. Hogan bails for months on end as usual and only comes back for the real big PPVs.

At this point they still had (if memory serves) Jericho, Benoit, Eddie in the mid card. Hart & Flair are the perfect guys to have them battle over the US title

Agree the company lost it's way in 98.

Agree Hogan gets way too much blame for a lot of things. People act like he's the only top guy who just wrestled against his buddies.

All the top guys do that! It's cause they trust those guys and keeping each other at the top of the card keeps you all making big money.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app


Yeah I would've loved to seen Scott Hall as champ by the Spring/Summer of 1998 they already were playing up
that he was a Drunk on TV which to his credit was entertaining as hell but that most likely nuked any plans
to make him World Champ.

I watched the rematch of Sting vs. Hogan at Super Brawl and Sting was way more engaged and the match was
a lot better then the Starrcade match. One thing I didn't like was how they branched off to Hogan vs. Savage
from there since it's a match/feud we'd seen a thousand times.

I was trying to think from their point of view what were they thinking with Bret Hart? And I was like I guess if you
are them and you consistently beat WWF with Bret Hart and Steve Austin as their top guys and Vince breaks his
contract with Bret Hart and pleads him to go to the competitor and literally hands him to them you might be a
little skeptical. Like why should we make this guy the top guy and the face of the company when we've been killing
him and Vince literally hands us to him? Also Hogan vs. Bret Hart is a mega match and there wasn't any big PPVs
after Super Brawl for awhile. Maybe the next one is Bash at The Beach but the summer is the only time Rodman is
available and he's tied in with Hogan. Then the next big PPV would be Halloween Havoc but then the Ultimate
Warrior is willing to come out of obscurity and when ever you sign him he's not reliable to last a while so you better
get that rematch done quickly. They should've done Hogan vs. Hart at Starrcade 1998 but Hogan wasn't on the card
not sure if he was injured or what. Maybe they didn't want to undermine Goldberg since he was the champ and the
hottest thing in the biz and should be in the Main Event but a Hogan vs. Hart match would totally over shadow it
like Hogan vs. Rock did to Jericho vs. HHH at WM 18.
According to Bischoff Bret was broken when he arrived in WCW cause of the way he left WWE.

His heart wasn't in it and all that

If you believe rumours Hogan never wanted to wrestle Bret, Bret resented him for it which is why Bret went up against everyone else.

Tbh the whole booking in 98 was poor but that's more due to Eric wanting to be one of the boys and not take charge and be the Boss.

At that point I believe WCW still had Jericho, Makenko, Benoit, Eddie, Kidman, Rey, Flair, Bret, Sting, DDP, Savage, Raven etc

Plus Goldberg coming on, Hogan, Hall, Nash, Steiner, Giant, Luger.

How they couldn't keep it all together is a lesson in ego - not corporate mergers!

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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1492 » by Dominator83 » Sat Oct 3, 2020 10:29 am

Pharaoh wrote:
Scott Hall wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:Agree the wheels didn't fall off until the end of 98 - Bischoff has blamed the merger during the middle of that year but as you said Goldberg hit big so

Hall was supposed to get the shot in Feb 98 but plans changed and I think he got his shot on a Nitro but if you go with my idea above:

NWO fractures where it's Hogan & Steiner v Hall & Nash

Sting v Bret for a few months as Goldberg rises up the ranks. You have one of them put Goldberg over for the belt.

Sting, Bret, DDP, Steiner & Goldberg end up being the main dudes.

Nash reduces his matches as he takes the book. Hall ends up not being around much due to his personal issues. Hogan bails for months on end as usual and only comes back for the real big PPVs.

At this point they still had (if memory serves) Jericho, Benoit, Eddie in the mid card. Hart & Flair are the perfect guys to have them battle over the US title

Agree the company lost it's way in 98.

Agree Hogan gets way too much blame for a lot of things. People act like he's the only top guy who just wrestled against his buddies.

All the top guys do that! It's cause they trust those guys and keeping each other at the top of the card keeps you all making big money.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app


Yeah I would've loved to seen Scott Hall as champ by the Spring/Summer of 1998 they already were playing up
that he was a Drunk on TV which to his credit was entertaining as hell but that most likely nuked any plans
to make him World Champ.

I watched the rematch of Sting vs. Hogan at Super Brawl and Sting was way more engaged and the match was
a lot better then the Starrcade match. One thing I didn't like was how they branched off to Hogan vs. Savage
from there since it's a match/feud we'd seen a thousand times.

I was trying to think from their point of view what were they thinking with Bret Hart? And I was like I guess if you
are them and you consistently beat WWF with Bret Hart and Steve Austin as their top guys and Vince breaks his
contract with Bret Hart and pleads him to go to the competitor and literally hands him to them you might be a
little skeptical. Like why should we make this guy the top guy and the face of the company when we've been killing
him and Vince literally hands us to him? Also Hogan vs. Bret Hart is a mega match and there wasn't any big PPVs
after Super Brawl for awhile. Maybe the next one is Bash at The Beach but the summer is the only time Rodman is
available and he's tied in with Hogan. Then the next big PPV would be Halloween Havoc but then the Ultimate
Warrior is willing to come out of obscurity and when ever you sign him he's not reliable to last a while so you better
get that rematch done quickly. They should've done Hogan vs. Hart at Starrcade 1998 but Hogan wasn't on the card
not sure if he was injured or what. Maybe they didn't want to undermine Goldberg since he was the champ and the
hottest thing in the biz and should be in the Main Event but a Hogan vs. Hart match would totally over shadow it
like Hogan vs. Rock did to Jericho vs. HHH at WM 18.
According to Bischoff Bret was broken when he arrived in WCW cause of the way he left WWE.

His heart wasn't in it and all that

If you believe rumours Hogan never wanted to wrestle Bret, Bret resented him for it which is why Bret went up against everyone else.

Tbh the whole booking in 98 was poor but that's more due to Eric wanting to be one of the boys and not take charge and be the Boss.

At that point I believe WCW still had Jericho, Makenko, Benoit, Eddie, Kidman, Rey, Flair, Bret, Sting, DDP, Savage, Raven etc

Plus Goldberg coming on, Hogan, Hall, Nash, Steiner, Giant, Luger.

How they couldn't keep it all together is a lesson in ego - not corporate mergers!

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You guys are both right that it wasn't just Hogans ego, none of the top guys wanted to do the job there. Hell, Hogan actually DID pass the torch to Goldberg. Lost clean jackhammer in the middle of the ring.

Like, you just mentioned the workhorses like Jericho, Guerrero, Benoit, Melanko, Mysterio, etc. I believe it was Hall and Nash that referred to those guys as "$400,000 a year champions" because those guys busted their asses every night to put on a clinic while putting their bodies on the line, while Nash and Hall were getting $1.5 mill a year to mail it in every week on Nitro (in the ring at least, they were still strong on the Mic) and call-off house shows since they were guaranteed that $1.5 mill no matter how many dates they worked.

Vince was way smarter in that regard. He would give guys "downside guarantees", which is basically partially guaranteed deals, with incentives which were tied in to how many dates they worked. So WWF stars actually had incentive to work house shows, while WCW stars didn't bother showing up to work.
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1493 » by The_Brecht » Mon Oct 5, 2020 4:55 pm

Drew & The Street Profits vs. Randy, Dolph & Roode.
Can't wait....
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1494 » by tugs » Tue Oct 6, 2020 1:56 am

Anyone else excited for Retribution?!
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1495 » by tugs » Tue Oct 6, 2020 9:15 am

Damn I was sarcastic when I said this. Now I'm intrigued with Ali. Somehow TBar and Mace became intimidating standing beside him
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1496 » by Ruzious » Tue Oct 6, 2020 11:20 am

tugs wrote:Damn I was sarcastic when I said this. Now I'm intrigued with Ali. Somehow TBar and Mace became intimidating standing beside him

Yeah, let's see if Ali has the chops for this. It definitely caught me by surprise that they'd give him this opportunity. And that was the first time I was interested at all in Retribution.
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1497 » by tugs » Tue Oct 6, 2020 2:52 pm

Ruzious wrote:
tugs wrote:Damn I was sarcastic when I said this. Now I'm intrigued with Ali. Somehow TBar and Mace became intimidating standing beside him

Yeah, let's see if Ali has the chops for this. It definitely caught me by surprise that they'd give him this opportunity. And that was the first time I was interested at all in Retribution.


Same. Also interested how they will proceed with the storyline if Ali was the hacker. Retribution as henchmen makes so much sense now. TBar looking like the typical stiff muscle of the group, Mace as became so creepy and disturbing with all that gyrating. Members starting to have their identities.

Ali's motive will make or break this gimmick.
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1498 » by Ruzious » Tue Oct 6, 2020 3:22 pm

tugs wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
tugs wrote:Damn I was sarcastic when I said this. Now I'm intrigued with Ali. Somehow TBar and Mace became intimidating standing beside him

Yeah, let's see if Ali has the chops for this. It definitely caught me by surprise that they'd give him this opportunity. And that was the first time I was interested at all in Retribution.


Same. Also interested how they will proceed with the storyline if Ali was the hacker. Retribution as henchmen makes so much sense now. TBar looking like the typical stiff muscle of the group, Mace as became so creepy and disturbing with all that gyrating. Members starting to have their identities.

Ali's motive will make or break this gimmick.

Hopefully, the WWE is setting Ali up for success rather than failure. So far, so good - I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes. Retribution could be a bizarro world version of Nexus. Just keep Cena away from them. 8-)
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1499 » by Dominator83 » Tue Oct 6, 2020 8:43 pm

Ruzious wrote:
tugs wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Yeah, let's see if Ali has the chops for this. It definitely caught me by surprise that they'd give him this opportunity. And that was the first time I was interested at all in Retribution.


Same. Also interested how they will proceed with the storyline if Ali was the hacker. Retribution as henchmen makes so much sense now. TBar looking like the typical stiff muscle of the group, Mace as became so creepy and disturbing with all that gyrating. Members starting to have their identities.

Ali's motive will make or break this gimmick.

Hopefully, the WWE is setting Ali up for success rather than failure. So far, so good - I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes. Retribution could be a bizarro world version of Nexus. Just keep Cena away from them. 8-)

Yea Ali has always been popular among the fans, it's just been a matter of figuring out how to get him over. This can very much get him over
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Re: WWE Raw Discussion III 

Post#1500 » by tugs » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:00 am

Feels like RAW stockpiled on SD talent and rehashed old RAW storylines and characters and sent to SD smh

Hope Black can move on from the Rollins-Mysterio feud, Ziggler and Roode get some solo runs as well as Cesaro and Nak

Looking forward to future Street Profit vs Usos feud

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