Lauri:' I can make the comeback'

[Ugly Duckling]

Lauri situation scares the hell out of me. Its a good chance he can bounce back especially with a good coach that involves him more in the offense. Issue is it's a contract year and I fear him having a big year getting offered a ton of dough from some other team we forced to match then he goes back to his lethargic play and poor conditioning.

It's why I still feel the best move is to move him in this years draft for an asset. I fear he will be a contract we regret. Not to mention by moving on from him we can position ourselves to the 2 max plan for next off season.

Yea boylen ruined him last season but he had time under hoiberg as well and I've seen enough from him to know he is not worth the long term investment. It would be a contract we would soon regret and end up trading anyway

100%. I was high on him before seeing how passive he actually is. He will be better, but I don't want to eat up 22 million of cap space on peak Ryan Anderson

[kulaz3000]

Lauri situation scares the hell out of me. Its a good chance he can bounce back especially with a good coach that involves him more in the offense. Issue is it's a contract year and I fear him having a big year getting offered a ton of dough from some other team we forced to match then he goes back to his lethargic play and poor conditioning.

It's why I still feel the best move is to move him in this years draft for an asset. I fear he will be a contract we regret. Not to mention by moving on from him we can position ourselves to the 2 max plan for next off season.

Yea boylen ruined him last season but he had time under hoiberg as well and I've seen enough from him to know he is not worth the long term investment. It would be a contract we would soon regret and end up trading anyway

100%. I was high on him before seeing how passive he actually is. He will be better, but I don't want to eat up 22 million of cap space on peak Ryan Anderson

I'm not sure if he will get anything close to 22 million per year, but even if he does, and he were to make a jump, albiet on a contract year, I'll take that. A contract on that level is of a starting level player. It would be thereabouts what Zach got when he was still an unproven player, and look at where he is now?

[drosereturn]

Man I see Lauri wants to be Dirk. Assert your dominance, take 20 shots per game to become the all star and get a max.
I am begging. Last time he put 25 shots, he dropped 35/17. His performance depends on his usage.

[Michael Jackson]

Can he?
Maybe he can with a new , better coach.
https://theathletic.com/2100281/2020/09/28/i-can-make-the-comeback-lauri-markkanen-vows-to-bounce-back-from-down-season?source=user-shared-article

He most certainly can. He only has to produce on daily basis what he's produced periodically in a time span of 1-2 months and his numbers will be massive. Hopefully this season they don't force him to play with an injury, that was a big mistake last season.

I agree with some that hopefully he's worked on the right things prior the season opener. He's no finished product yet.

I think part of that was him pushing to play through injury too. He was dogged his second season and wanted to prove he was tough. Which is good but not always wise. Last year was tough I expect a better year... not the Hugh ceiling hopes of rookie Lauri but a much improved player.

[Hold That]

Hopefully he plays well enough so we can trade him. Who was the last big that regressed that much early on in their career and did a complete 180, and became really good?

Lauri needs to add an awful lot to his game for me to be a believer. Not trying to see a seven foot spot up shooter be rewarded with a 100mil deal.

[MrFortune3]

He cannot score 1 on 1 nor has a decent handle.

Watch on YouTube

Enes Kanter though? That dude is easier to score on than the Falcons defense in the 4th quarter.

[ChettheJet]

He has a virtual free shot with the Bulls. He doesn't have to average 20 and 10 and be a superstar to keep his job and get a new conyract. If he can go 14 and 7 and look like he knows what defense is he's a solid player for the Bulls. But if he can't manage that with no pressure no other team is going to want to give him a big contract based on hope. Hecan head to Europe like Mirotic

[Ugly Duckling]

Lauri situation scares the hell out of me. Its a good chance he can bounce back especially with a good coach that involves him more in the offense. Issue is it's a contract year and I fear him having a big year getting offered a ton of dough from some other team we forced to match then he goes back to his lethargic play and poor conditioning.

It's why I still feel the best move is to move him in this years draft for an asset. I fear he will be a contract we regret. Not to mention by moving on from him we can position ourselves to the 2 max plan for next off season.

Yea boylen ruined him last season but he had time under hoiberg as well and I've seen enough from him to know he is not worth the long term investment. It would be a contract we would soon regret and end up trading anyway

100%. I was high on him before seeing how passive he actually is. He will be better, but I don't want to eat up 22 million of cap space on peak Ryan Anderson

I'm not sure if he will get anything close to 22 million per year, but even if he does, and he were to make a jump, albiet on a contract year, I'll take that. A contract on that level is of a starting level player. It would be thereabouts what Zach got when he was still an unproven player, and look at where he is now?

Nah only top 50 players make that much and salaries are trending down

[TheSuzerain]

Lauri situation scares the hell out of me. Its a good chance he can bounce back especially with a good coach that involves him more in the offense. Issue is it's a contract year and I fear him having a big year getting offered a ton of dough from some other team we forced to match then he goes back to his lethargic play and poor conditioning.

It's why I still feel the best move is to move him in this years draft for an asset. I fear he will be a contract we regret. Not to mention by moving on from him we can position ourselves to the 2 max plan for next off season.

Yea boylen ruined him last season but he had time under hoiberg as well and I've seen enough from him to know he is not worth the long term investment. It would be a contract we would soon regret and end up trading anyway

100%. I was high on him before seeing how passive he actually is. He will be better, but I don't want to eat up 22 million of cap space on peak Ryan Anderson

I'm not sure if he will get anything close to 22 million per year, but even if he does, and he were to make a jump, albiet on a contract year, I'll take that. A contract on that level is of a starting level player. It would be thereabouts what Zach got when he was still an unproven player, and look at where he is now?

No chance man.

22 million is nearly 1/4 of your soft cap space. That's way above a "starting level" player contract.

[mtron32]

He teased me in the first game last season. If he can just average what he did in that game I'll be a happy camper.

Lmao everyone would be a very happy camper if Lauri averaged 35/17/2 for a season. He'd be an MVP.

The crazy thing about that game was he shot 1/7 from 3. Usually his high scoring games came when hitting multiple 3s. If he hit his career average he'd be at 40+ ppg.

They probably sat him down and told him not to shoot those mid range shots anymore.

[drosereturn]

He certainly can be better, because we've seen him be better. Lauri has two big problems:

1.) He's one of the least assertive players I've ever seen. He needs to start demanding the ball and playing aggressively.

2.) For someone who seems like he's in great shape, his conditioning is always poor and he has yet to add a single new dimension to his game.

This is a myth. First, he had the lowest usage in his career down from 25 last yr and even lower than his rookie 22 last yr to 21 usg bc Boylen claimed he could get unlimited usage by more rebounding.
Compare to that with 24 usg White and theres a huge problem in terms of who is the number 1, 2scorer. Just simply shooting more like White and Lavine is not the answer when you have to keep moving the ball like Lauri and Sato are doing for better shots.

Secondly, even his health has mostly has to do with relic of the past, Jeff Tanka. Billy has a new medical trainer so lets see if it changes the overall health of the starters or is it really a Lauri thing. He has took care of his body well every season so at least hes doing his part.

[drosereturn]

He teased me in the first game last season. If he can just average what he did in that game I'll be a happy camper.

Lmao everyone would be a very happy camper if Lauri averaged 35/17/2 for a season. He'd be an MVP.

The crazy thing about that game was he shot 1/7 from 3. Usually his high scoring games came when hitting multiple 3s. If he hit his career average he'd be at 40+ ppg.

Which is why Lauri has so much potential unlike Lavine. He basically didnt even sweat that first game and had one of his worst shooting nights shooting 10% from deep and still got 35. That means he can easily have 50 point games on less than 30 shots.
Unlike Lavine, Lauri doesnt have to rely on his 3pt shot and its actually not even his strengths when he prefers scoring inside.

Also, Lauri being the 1st option actually proved he could impact winning from his 11game span from feb to march 2nd.
During that span, the Bulls went 6-5 while averaging over 25/10 and again he shot terribly from deep getting those numbers.

[the ultimates]

Lauri bricked a ton of wide-open shots especially on passes from Lavine. The reason he doesn't take more shots, be more aggressive or have a higher usage is because he can't create shots for himself. He's a straight-line driver with no advanced or wiggle to his handle. He isn't comfortable with shooting over smaller players on the perimeter or the post.

We've all been watching the playoffs so we've seen what number one and two options look like. We've seen what high usage players look like. Does Lauri's current skillset look anything like that? Can he improve those individual skills as a scorer and be better yes he can. I'm tired though of people clinging to one game against Charlotte and a one month stretch 3 seasons ago and making it seem like coaching or teammates are holding him back. He's holding himself back with his lack of individual skill improvement.

[PhilLeotardo]

Lauri bricked a ton of wide-open shots especially on passes from Lavine. The reason he doesn't take more shots, be more aggressive or have a higher usage is because he can't create shots for himself. He's a straight-line driver with no advanced or wiggle to his handle. He isn't comfortable with shooting over smaller players on the perimeter or the post.

We've all been watching the playoffs so we've seen what number one and two options look like. We've seen what high usage players look like. Does Lauri's current skillset look anything like that? Can he improve those individual skills as a scorer and be better yes he can. I'm tired though of people clinging to one game against Charlotte and a one month stretch 3 seasons ago and making it seem like coaching or teammates are holding him back. He's holding himself back with his lack of individual skill improvement.

He’s just not a high-ceiling guy. He’s way too slow to ever be a truly impactful player in the NBA. Certainly not as a top 3 option on a winning team. I’m struggling to see how or where he becomes a star player with his cement feet. He could still become an elite shooter I suppose, but what good is that if he gives up more points than he makes on defense? He’s a really awkward fit in the modern NBA. Chicago also might be too high pressure/intense of an environment for him

[dice]

100%. I was high on him before seeing how passive he actually is. He will be better, but I don't want to eat up 22 million of cap space on peak Ryan Anderson

I'm not sure if he will get anything close to 22 million per year, but even if he does, and he were to make a jump, albiet on a contract year, I'll take that. A contract on that level is of a starting level player. It would be thereabouts what Zach got when he was still an unproven player, and look at where he is now?

No chance man.

22 million is nearly 1/4 of your soft cap space. That's way above a "starting level" player contract.

avg #1 starter money: around 35 mil (secondary max - jimmy butler)
#2 starter: around 26-27 mil (3rd tier max - otto porter)
#3 starter: around 19 mil (lavine)
#4 starter: around 15 mil (top role players - danny green)
#5 starter: around 12 mil (could be top reserve on a better than average team - patty mills)
6th man: around 10 mil (could be starter on weak team - we're all thinking of the same person here, but i'm not going to sabotage the thread by mentioning his name)

lauri hasn't even proven himself as starter material at this point. he's on track for niko money, and only that much because he won't be seen as a finished product like niko was. but he IS a finnish product

[HomoSapien]

This is a myth. First, he had the lowest usage in his career down from 25 last yr and even lower than his rookie 22 last yr to 21 usg bc Boylen claimed he could get unlimited usage by more rebounding.
Compare to that with 24 usg White and theres a huge problem in terms of who is the number 1, 2scorer. Just simply shooting more like White and Lavine is not the answer when you have to keep moving the ball like Lauri and Sato are doing for better shots.

No, it's not a myth. He does need to be more aggressive, demand the ball, and get angry once in a while. Boylen was an issue, but my complaint is independent of him. Lauri is one of our best players, but he doesn't play or act like it and that's been my criticism of him since he was a rookie.

Secondly, even his health has mostly has to do with relic of the past, Jeff Tanka. Billy has a new medical trainer so lets see if it changes the overall health of the starters or is it really a Lauri thing. He has took care of his body well every season so at least hes doing his part.

The Bulls had to shut him down because of his conditioning in the past. You can tell when he gets winded, and it happens way too often. Aside from having vanity muscles, he hasn't taken care of his body or expanded his game in a meaningful way.

[Ccwatercraft]

I'm not that confident that he can rebound fro last season unless he's been working on his flaws daily for hours and actually shows some serious improvements on the court.

The only reason to hope is the fact that this will be a contract year.

[kodo]

He kinda bounced back after his slump the first two months, but the season ended so shortly it didn't really register. After December 1st, Lauri's rest of season scoring was

16 ppg on 12 attempts per game, 47%/38% shooting. 30 mpg.

2019 Lauri's scoring was

18.7 ppg on 15 attempts per game, 43%/36% shooting. 32 mpg.

A lot of factors went into his decreased production that didn't necessarily mean Lauri got worse.
* Coby took the #2 spot in usage from Lauri.
* Signing Thad in the offseason and his displeasure with his minutes meant lower minutes for Lauri
* Boylen's defense is a hedge with no recover, which means bigs are often on the perimeter not in position to rebound
* We ran less P&R for Lauri, he was used more as a spot up stretch 4. In 2019 Lauri as a Roll Man scorer was 74th percentile in the NBA. In 2020 that dropped to 25th percentile.

If he gets closer to 35 mpg, if he gets 15 shots per game, I can easily see him scoring 19 ppg again.
If we don't run a hedge & trap defense, I can easily see him averaging 9 rpg again.

Overall he just got the ball much less. He went from 66 touches per game to 45 touches per game. Boylen treated him as a roleplayer, and it's a self fulfilling prophecy. As a big man who relies on the system getting him the ball, how much Lauri produces will depend a lot on what Donovan & AK think of him.

[Chi town]

Hopefully he plays well enough so we can trade him. Who was the last big that regressed that much early on in their career and did a complete 180, and became really good?

Lauri needs to add an awful lot to his game for me to be a believer. Not trying to see a seven foot spot up shooter be rewarded with a 100mil deal.

Which of those players played for Boylen?

I tend to agree with you. I’d trade Lauri for a solid pick simply due to his positional value. Unless he can become a Duncan Robinson shooter from the 4 spot or a mid post force shooting over people like Dirk then I just don’t see it.

[Chi town]

He kinda bounced back after his slump the first two months, but the season ended so shortly it didn't really register. After December 1st, Lauri's rest of season scoring was

16 ppg on 12 attempts per game, 47%/38% shooting. 30 mpg.

2019 Lauri's scoring was

18.7 ppg on 15 attempts per game, 43%/36% shooting. 32 mpg.

A lot of factors went into his decreased production that didn't necessarily mean Lauri got worse.
* Coby took the #2 spot in usage from Lauri.
* Signing Thad in the offseason and his displeasure with his minutes meant lower minutes for Lauri
* Boylen's defense is a hedge with no recover, which means bigs are often on the perimeter not in position to rebound
* We ran less P&R for Lauri, he was used more as a spot up stretch 4. In 2019 Lauri as a Roll Man scorer was 74th percentile in the NBA. In 2020 that dropped to 25th percentile.

If he gets closer to 35 mpg, if he gets 15 shots per game, I can easily see him scoring 19 ppg again.
If we don't run a hedge & trap defense, I can easily see him averaging 9 rpg again.

Overall he just got the ball much less. He went from 66 touches per game to 45 touches per game. Boylen treated him as a roleplayer, and it's a self fulfilling prophecy. As a big man who relies on the system getting him the ball, how much Lauri produces will depend a lot on what Donovan & AK think of him.

So true. Well said. Unless Lauri somehow now has a handle and can at least create for himself.