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OT Bears 2019/20 season

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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#441 » by TheStig » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:09 pm

Dresden wrote:
TheStig wrote:
Dresden wrote:
Me either. The Pats aren't asking him to do a lot. They have a great defense, and a ball control offense built around the ground game. Newton is fine for that. He would be terrible fit for Nagy- he's not accurate and tends to throw picks.

He threw for nearly 400 yards against the seahawks. He doesn't just do ball control. NE is just very system oriented and they will take what they can get. He's not the cam newton show but he's still damn good and I'd take him over foles in a heartbeat. Seeing him adapt to a system that changes to the opponents weakness cements that.


No, he can wing it around. It's just that he's not that accurate when he does so, and he throws some picks. And Belichek will only have him do what he needs to do to win, and with the Pats defense, that's often going to be just a ground attack, with some short passes thrown in. I don't think Cam can be successful if he's asked to throw for 300 yards every week.

I don't know why you'd ask him to throw 300 every week. He's got such a good ground game that his 225-250 and 75 on the ground is more effective. But he does have the arm.

My point was that Bellichek is going to abuse what the defense gives him and Cam will do as asked and can do it all.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#442 » by Chi town » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:41 pm

Give Mooney all the Cohen passing plays.
The more touched he gets the better our offense will be.

Also watch Wims start showing out with lots of back shoulder throws from Foles.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#443 » by dice » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:44 am

ATRAIN53 wrote:Do you guys think they even washed Aaron Rodgers uniform after that Saints game Sunday night?

and I don't gamble - but does the thought of the 0-3 ATL Falcons going into Green Bay next Monday night and the Packers giving 7 1/2 points seem like EASY MONEY?

with the limited number of possessions (and the resultant high cost of turnovers), an oblong ball and sometimes bad weather, there's really no such thing as easy money betting on a football game

the only easy money bet in all of sports that i can even think of was mayweather/macgregor
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#444 » by dice » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:35 am

chances of making playoffs after week 3:

86% seahawks
85% pack

71% cowboys
66% bucs
65% saints
65% niners
59% bears/rams

45% cards

22% eagles
19% vikings
18% lions

11% football team/falcons
9% panthers
6% giants
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#445 » by Dresden » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:42 am

TheStig wrote:
Dresden wrote:
TheStig wrote:He threw for nearly 400 yards against the seahawks. He doesn't just do ball control. NE is just very system oriented and they will take what they can get. He's not the cam newton show but he's still damn good and I'd take him over foles in a heartbeat. Seeing him adapt to a system that changes to the opponents weakness cements that.


No, he can wing it around. It's just that he's not that accurate when he does so, and he throws some picks. And Belichek will only have him do what he needs to do to win, and with the Pats defense, that's often going to be just a ground attack, with some short passes thrown in. I don't think Cam can be successful if he's asked to throw for 300 yards every week.

I don't know why you'd ask him to throw 300 every week. He's got such a good ground game that his 225-250 and 75 on the ground is more effective. But he does have the arm.

My point was that Bellichek is going to abuse what the defense gives him and Cam will do as asked and can do it all.


All I'm saying is that Cam is not able to do what the best qb's in the league can do, like Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Brees, and others. I don't see them being able to beat a team that can put up a lot of points, when it comes to the playoffs.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#446 » by TheStig » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:49 am

Dresden wrote:
TheStig wrote:
Dresden wrote:
No, he can wing it around. It's just that he's not that accurate when he does so, and he throws some picks. And Belichek will only have him do what he needs to do to win, and with the Pats defense, that's often going to be just a ground attack, with some short passes thrown in. I don't think Cam can be successful if he's asked to throw for 300 yards every week.

I don't know why you'd ask him to throw 300 every week. He's got such a good ground game that his 225-250 and 75 on the ground is more effective. But he does have the arm.

My point was that Bellichek is going to abuse what the defense gives him and Cam will do as asked and can do it all.


All I'm saying is that Cam is not able to do what the best qb's in the league can do, like Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Brees, and others. I don't see them being able to beat a team that can put up a lot of points, when it comes to the playoffs.

I think he is in that next tier. With Brees btw.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#447 » by Dresden » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:31 am

TheStig wrote:
Dresden wrote:
TheStig wrote:I don't know why you'd ask him to throw 300 every week. He's got such a good ground game that his 225-250 and 75 on the ground is more effective. But he does have the arm.

My point was that Bellichek is going to abuse what the defense gives him and Cam will do as asked and can do it all.


All I'm saying is that Cam is not able to do what the best qb's in the league can do, like Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Brees, and others. I don't see them being able to beat a team that can put up a lot of points, when it comes to the playoffs.

I think he is in that next tier. With Brees btw.


Last 5 years average QB rating:

Brees- 108.8

Cam- 88

That's a big difference.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#448 » by TheStig » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:14 am

Dresden wrote:
TheStig wrote:
Dresden wrote:
All I'm saying is that Cam is not able to do what the best qb's in the league can do, like Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Brees, and others. I don't see them being able to beat a team that can put up a lot of points, when it comes to the playoffs.

I think he is in that next tier. With Brees btw.


Last 5 years average QB rating:

Brees- 108.8

Cam- 88

That's a big difference.


Breees isn't 5 years younger. He's 41. We'll see how he hold up this year.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#449 » by ATRAIN53 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:54 pm

dice wrote:
ATRAIN53 wrote:Do you guys think they even washed Aaron Rodgers uniform after that Saints game Sunday night?

and I don't gamble - but does the thought of the 0-3 ATL Falcons going into Green Bay next Monday night and the Packers giving 7 1/2 points seem like EASY MONEY?

with the limited number of possessions (and the resultant high cost of turnovers), an oblong ball and sometimes bad weather, there's really no such thing as easy money betting on a football game

the only easy money bet in all of sports that i can even think of was mayweather/macgregor


I still say Mayweather had the advantage, boxing matches are longer than MMA fights.
He knew he could outlast him over 12 rounds and it took him 10.

If that was a 5 round fight......
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#450 » by patryk7754 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:48 pm

With the media putting Fangio on the hot seat (even tho he did a great job last season and his entire team out for the season this year) I just want to put it out there that if he gets fired the bears should bring him back. The defense still talks about him and Pagano has been underwhelming
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#451 » by Dresden » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:52 pm

patryk7754 wrote:With the media putting Fangio on the hot seat (even tho he did a great job last season and his entire team out for the season this year) I just want to put it out there that if he gets fired the bears should bring him back. The defense still talks about him and Pagano has been underwhelming


Agree 1000%. The defense hasn't been the same since he left.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#452 » by patryk7754 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:59 pm

Dresden wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:With the media putting Fangio on the hot seat (even tho he did a great job last season and his entire team out for the season this year) I just want to put it out there that if he gets fired the bears should bring him back. The defense still talks about him and Pagano has been underwhelming


Agree 1000%. The defense hasn't been the same since he left.

Really with Pagano there’s two things. Not as many turnovers and the big play. And it’s not like they’re bad but the difference between good and great is pretty obvious. I’d even say that the defense takes us to the playoffs last season if led by Fangio

I think this scenario should be in text books of why coaching is so important. Basically the exact same roster (if not better) but huge difference in execution
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#453 » by patryk7754 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:30 pm

I want to give props to Ifedi. I hated the signing. I hated his game and now he might be having the best season on this line thus far and he hasn’t been bad and might even go as far as saying that he has been good.

Overall I’d like to praise the oline as a whole. Massie and Leno have bounced back.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#454 » by MAQ » Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:00 pm

Pagano's schemes seem too aggressive and really leave the d vulnerable to bigger playa.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#455 » by dice » Thu Oct 1, 2020 2:05 am

patryk7754 wrote:
Dresden wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:With the media putting Fangio on the hot seat (even tho he did a great job last season and his entire team out for the season this year) I just want to put it out there that if he gets fired the bears should bring him back. The defense still talks about him and Pagano has been underwhelming


Agree 1000%. The defense hasn't been the same since he left.

Really with Pagano there’s two things. Not as many turnovers and the big play. And it’s not like they’re bad but the difference between good and great is pretty obvious. I’d even say that the defense takes us to the playoffs last season if led by Fangio

I think this scenario should be in text books of why coaching is so important. Basically the exact same roster (if not better) but huge difference in execution

turnovers are much more random variation than coaching. INTs dropped from 27 two seasons ago to 10 last season. i seriously doubt that was the result of pagano telling guys not to go after interceptions so much or even schematic differences. to illustrate, here are fangio's team rankings in INTs w/ him as defensive coordinator:

1,1,2,5,6,7,10,16,20,20,23,26,27,29,29,30,30,31

mostly below average
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#456 » by Susan » Thu Oct 1, 2020 11:47 am

I am usually a fan of DVOA (have been reading FO for 10+ years) but the Colts being #1 when they have a loss to the Jags is puzzling to say the least.

Indy feasted on the Jets, Minnesota (who have. looked DREADFUL thus far but should turn it around now that Jefferson might be able to fill Diggs' shoes) and Jacksonville. If we're looking at pure defensive talent, I'll take the Bears defensive roster over the Colts every day.

I hope the defense can get the running game figured out this week. The Colts have a great offensive line on paper but their stats have been pretty meh (check out the Bears o-line stats though!) https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/offensive-line/2020

Rivers is a statue and has arm strength issues. If Foles/Montgomery can set a strong tone in the 1st half and help make the Colts' O predictable, this game can go extremely well for the Bears. If Mack/Hicks/Quinn can get to Rivers a few times, this game is going to go in our favor. We saw what happened when they got to Ryan, the Falcons really started to flounder.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#457 » by dougthonus » Thu Oct 1, 2020 1:31 pm

Susan wrote:I am usually a fan of DVOA (have been reading FO for 10+ years) but the Colts being #1 when they have a loss to the Jags is puzzling to say the least.

Indy feasted on the Jets, Minnesota (who have. looked DREADFUL thus far but should turn it around now that Jefferson might be able to fill Diggs' shoes) and Jacksonville. If we're looking at pure defensive talent, I'll take the Bears defensive roster over the Colts every day.

I hope the defense can get the running game figured out this week. The Colts have a great offensive line on paper but their stats have been pretty meh (check out the Bears o-line stats though!) https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/offensive-line/2020

Rivers is a statue and has arm strength issues. If Foles/Montgomery can set a strong tone in the 1st half and help make the Colts' O predictable, this game can go extremely well for the Bears. If Mack/Hicks/Quinn can get to Rivers a few times, this game is going to go in our favor. We saw what happened when they got to Ryan, the Falcons really started to flounder.


Not that 2-1 is some great record, but I don't think the Colts are all that good, and think the Bears have a good shot at this game.

I agree that it feels like if we can get a good pass rush that we'll be able to shake a QB like Rivers that doesn't have much mobility and think we should be able to do that.

I'm excited to see Foles with a full week of prep and in a full game. I don't think he's an amazing QB, but he definitely added a down the field threat that Trubisky was lacking.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#458 » by CjayC » Thu Oct 1, 2020 7:42 pm

Chi town wrote:Give Mooney all the Cohen passing plays.
The more touched he gets the better our offense will be.

Also watch Wims start showing out with lots of back shoulder throws from Foles.


Statistically Mooney takes the most snaps at Bears #2 outside WR, he's a starter. Miller plays in the slot mostly, so you'd need to find somebody else to replace Cohen's touches.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#459 » by fleet » Sat Oct 3, 2020 11:58 am

Hhhhhhh...

Sad read. Lots more at link.


To understand all that went into the 2017 quarterback draft and the resulting Trubisky era in Chicago, Bleacher Report spoke to sources who are connected to the Bears, Chiefs and Texans, as well as to evaluators around the league who studied the quarterbacks. The sources spoke on condition of anonymity given the classified nature of team evaluations and draft strategy


Though Pace finally had looped Fox into the Trubisky plan that morning, many in the organization didn't find out about it until the Bears traded four picks to move up to No. 2 and the phone call was made to Trubisky. A source familiar with the situation says Fox was not alone in his contrary opinion about the quarterbacks. The love for Trubisky was "not unanimous" among personnel and coaching staff.

Pace seemed to be fixated on the quarterback position and on Trubisky, to judge partly from what was seen as an unnecessary trade from No. 3 to No. 2.

"I don't know where they were getting their information [on needing to move up], but it was not great sources," said a source close to the team. "To give up four picks to move up one spot, that was another ridiculous thing. Especially on a team that didn't have great talent anyways. They [the 49ers] kind of duped [Chicago]."


Across the league, scouts, GMs and coaches were stunned by the Bears' move. "Everyone was like, 'Holy ****! They just took Mitch Trubisky No. 2?'" said a scout whose team drafted a quarterback that year. "There was no way we thought they were going to get Trubisky. That was so far removed from what we thought could be reality."

The shock was partly because Pace had kept his intentions quiet, but mostly it was because, for many teams, Trubisky was ranked as the third quarterback and a late first-round pick.

"I'm not sure anyone had Trubisky as high as the Bears did," said a scout who closely evaluated quarterbacks that year.

"The division is glad Chicago picked him," said an evaluator who worked in the NFC North at the time. His team graded Trubisky as a third-round pick.


"Deshaun was 1A and Patrick 1B," said an AFC scout. "[Trubisky] was in consideration; he just wasn't ranked with those guys. If you want to say third, then yeah, that's where he was."


"Trubisky third, and it wasn't even close," said the scout whose team drafted a QB that year. "We had so little to work with on Trubisky. I mean, he's a one-year starter, you know? And for much of his [college] career, he was beaten out by a guy who wasn't even going to play in the NFL. As much as they tried to say he was more prototypical than other guys, he was as much a project as they were.


One source who previously worked with the Bears during Trubisky's time doubts that he will ever be the franchise quarterback that his No. 2-pick status would suggest. His inexperience in big games in college didn’t prepare him well for the NFL, and his biggest weakness is difficult to coach: “It revolves around confidence, but really it is the mental part of the game,” the source says. “That’s ... where the other two were ahead of him in the process. The situation he is in being compared to the other two, it kind of compounded his issues. He got dealt a bad hand.”



So he went to ask a coach friend on UNC's offensive staff why the team wasn't starting Trubisky. What the hell are you guys doing playing Marquise Williams at QB when this kid is on your team?

"He was laughing, and he said something like, 'The guys just played for Marquise,'" the scout recalled. "He wasn't knowingly taking a shot at Trubisky, but I took a mental note that there is something missing with this guy. There is no way talent-wise that Trubisky shouldn't have been playing. And Marquise Williams kept him on the bench?"

"The Williams kid had the heart of the locker room and the pulse," the scout whose team drafted a QB that year remembered learning from his research on Trubisky. "The players rallied around him, which is part of the reason why he started those years over Mitch."

"When they described how he couldn't win the starting job from Marquise, you ask follow up questions about that," said the scout who evaluated quarterbacks closely. "Do the guys like him? Do the guys gravitate towards him? And once you start going down that road and asking those questions, it's something that is always in the back of your mind when you're evaluating him."


The "It" factor. Looking back at the 2017 draft and considering why so many player evaluators are saying today that the Bears' mistake was obvious back then, the "It" factor is what they say Watson and Mahomes had that Trubisky did not.

"Mahomes had a swagger confidence to him. Deshaun was kind of almost how Russell Wilson was, like this guy makes you feel something when you're talking to him," said the former AFC scout, echoing other sources.

What about Trubisky? "You just didn't get this feeling of a leader of men, a guy that just stood up and looked you in the eye. It's hard to put an actual word to it."



https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2911595-why-how-the-bears-trubisky-and-the-fateful-2017-nfl-draft
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#460 » by dougthonus » Sat Oct 3, 2020 12:47 pm

fleet wrote:Hhhhhhh...

Sad read. Lots more at link.


To understand all that went into the 2017 quarterback draft and the resulting Trubisky era in Chicago, Bleacher Report spoke to sources who are connected to the Bears, Chiefs and Texans, as well as to evaluators around the league who studied the quarterbacks. The sources spoke on condition of anonymity given the classified nature of team evaluations and draft strategy


Though Pace finally had looped Fox into the Trubisky plan that morning, many in the organization didn't find out about it until the Bears traded four picks to move up to No. 2 and the phone call was made to Trubisky. A source familiar with the situation says Fox was not alone in his contrary opinion about the quarterbacks. The love for Trubisky was "not unanimous" among personnel and coaching staff.

Pace seemed to be fixated on the quarterback position and on Trubisky, to judge partly from what was seen as an unnecessary trade from No. 3 to No. 2.

"I don't know where they were getting their information [on needing to move up], but it was not great sources," said a source close to the team. "To give up four picks to move up one spot, that was another ridiculous thing. Especially on a team that didn't have great talent anyways. They [the 49ers] kind of duped [Chicago]."


Across the league, scouts, GMs and coaches were stunned by the Bears' move. "Everyone was like, 'Holy ****! They just took Mitch Trubisky No. 2?'" said a scout whose team drafted a quarterback that year. "There was no way we thought they were going to get Trubisky. That was so far removed from what we thought could be reality."

The shock was partly because Pace had kept his intentions quiet, but mostly it was because, for many teams, Trubisky was ranked as the third quarterback and a late first-round pick.

"I'm not sure anyone had Trubisky as high as the Bears did," said a scout who closely evaluated quarterbacks that year.

"The division is glad Chicago picked him," said an evaluator who worked in the NFC North at the time. His team graded Trubisky as a third-round pick.


"Deshaun was 1A and Patrick 1B," said an AFC scout. "[Trubisky] was in consideration; he just wasn't ranked with those guys. If you want to say third, then yeah, that's where he was."


"Trubisky third, and it wasn't even close," said the scout whose team drafted a QB that year. "We had so little to work with on Trubisky. I mean, he's a one-year starter, you know? And for much of his [college] career, he was beaten out by a guy who wasn't even going to play in the NFL. As much as they tried to say he was more prototypical than other guys, he was as much a project as they were.


One source who previously worked with the Bears during Trubisky's time doubts that he will ever be the franchise quarterback that his No. 2-pick status would suggest. His inexperience in big games in college didn’t prepare him well for the NFL, and his biggest weakness is difficult to coach: “It revolves around confidence, but really it is the mental part of the game,” the source says. “That’s ... where the other two were ahead of him in the process. The situation he is in being compared to the other two, it kind of compounded his issues. He got dealt a bad hand.”



So he went to ask a coach friend on UNC's offensive staff why the team wasn't starting Trubisky. What the hell are you guys doing playing Marquise Williams at QB when this kid is on your team?

"He was laughing, and he said something like, 'The guys just played for Marquise,'" the scout recalled. "He wasn't knowingly taking a shot at Trubisky, but I took a mental note that there is something missing with this guy. There is no way talent-wise that Trubisky shouldn't have been playing. And Marquise Williams kept him on the bench?"

"The Williams kid had the heart of the locker room and the pulse," the scout whose team drafted a QB that year remembered learning from his research on Trubisky. "The players rallied around him, which is part of the reason why he started those years over Mitch."

"When they described how he couldn't win the starting job from Marquise, you ask follow up questions about that," said the scout who evaluated quarterbacks closely. "Do the guys like him? Do the guys gravitate towards him? And once you start going down that road and asking those questions, it's something that is always in the back of your mind when you're evaluating him."


The "It" factor. Looking back at the 2017 draft and considering why so many player evaluators are saying today that the Bears' mistake was obvious back then, the "It" factor is what they say Watson and Mahomes had that Trubisky did not.

"Mahomes had a swagger confidence to him. Deshaun was kind of almost how Russell Wilson was, like this guy makes you feel something when you're talking to him," said the former AFC scout, echoing other sources.

What about Trubisky? "You just didn't get this feeling of a leader of men, a guy that just stood up and looked you in the eye. It's hard to put an actual word to it."



https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2911595-why-how-the-bears-trubisky-and-the-fateful-2017-nfl-draft



Some pieces of this are certainly interesting, but a lot of this sure feels like one of two things:
1: People morphing their opinions of four years ago to better match the reality of today.
2: Hunting down people who gave you the quotes you wanted for this article.

Just google 2017 NFL mock draft. The first 8 mock drafts I saw all had Mitch Trubisky as the #1 QB including CBS, ESPN, and SI.

He fell a low as #12 in several, and so I agree (and said at the time) trading up was ludicrous, but everyone acting now like they knew MaHomes or Watson were so great are full of crap. If those guys were predicted to be what they are then they would have gone #1 and #2 in the draft.

So I'm not defending the Bears in picking Trubisky, whom I personally didn't like at the time, and certainly am not defending them trading up for taking him, this is just a hit piece with trumped up quotes to make it look even more ridiculous than it was. You don't need to exaggerate/flat out lie about an already bad decision to prove your point, no one looks back at this and thinks that was a good pick.

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