Official Minor League News Thread - 2007

[nykgeneralmanager]

Yeah, I understand why he slipped. I wasn't talking about health concerns. The Tigers took a chance on Porcello and got him signed. My point was that none of the 30 MLB teams felt Harvey was worth the money, not ONE. That is what raised an eyebrow to me. It's not like 5 teams passed on him and let him fall into someone else's lap, but 30 teams passed on him more than once.

This is an era in baseball where teams are now putting a premium on developing their own pitchers from within, and apparently every team had a chance to get this future stud in their farm system. You're telling me nobody had the money to give to this kid if he was worth it? Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not a scout. But 30 teams do have scouts and none felt he was worth anything CLOSE to what he was asking (or else they would've at least taken a shot and negotiated, right?).

[34Celtic]

He was going to command a boatload of money, regardless of where he fell to. One team passed on him 5 times after scouts were still reccomending him. He would have commanded more than what Porcello did and he really was not in a hurry to sign with a team. Its been his dream to go to UNC since he was a kid and rumor has it he wanted to do that all along. I would have rather spent 8 million on a kid who has little injury concern because of a free and easy motion than spending whatever we did on Brackman. I really don't see Brackman being anything other than a reliever, not with his innings high being in the 70's....I just don't. That and I fear him getting hurt again. I realize you have these same concerns with high school kids. 6'10'' pitchers are always prospects, regardless of what type of stuff they have and there are 3 I can remember making it. Mark Hendrickson, Randy Johnson and Chris Young. There are also guys like Ryan Anderson who just never pan out. I don't know I guess we'll wait a few years, see how Harvey does at UNC and how Brackman rebounds.

In the end I would rather would have had the Yanks spend whatever it took to get Harvey signed as opposed to a walking Tommy John surgery in the making.

[rappa]

34Celtic, he was never in the asking range price of porcello. They are in 2 totally different categories. He fell because he wasn't as good as he was the previous year. He topped out at 93 and didn't even dominant bad hs competition. Theres a reason teams didn't take him, and it wasn't the price tag.

[34Celtic]

He gave up 5 earned runs in 542/3 innings, had a 0.64 ERA, 112 K's and threw five complete games.

You're right he didn't dominate though.

He has 2 plus offspeed pitches, sits at 93. But that isnt any good.

His dad / coach limited to one start per week to protect his arm.

He was asking for first round money, which scared a lot of teams away with the fact that Scott Boras was his agent. The Angels wanted to pay him third round money from what it looks like, even though he was a top 5 HS pitcher

[Pharmcat]

In the end I would rather would have had the Yanks spend whatever it took to get Harvey signed as opposed to a walking Tommy John surgery in the making.

we paid like 4 million for brackman.....we know he needs TJ, but its obvious the yanks believe in this surgery since 3 other of our prospects have gotten it....i read scott boras # (granted its prolly inflated), but he gives it a 97% sucess rate....Dr. Andrews performed it for brackman, he is the best in the business, so im really confident brackman will recover 100% from this surgery...this is the luxury the yanks can afford to have and we shouldnt complain bout it: we can pay players with ace potentiall (brackman wouldve been top 5 had he not been injured) big bucks who are injured, get surgery, and then rehab and get em ready to go; if these players werent injured, they wouldnt have fallen to us in the draft....im pretty sure no other team wouldve made this investment in brackman, but we have the financial resources to do so....and like i said b4, if he gives us 6-9 yrs of quality starts, then its a investment tat is well worth it

[rappa]

He gave up 5 earned runs in 542/3 innings, had a 0.64 ERA, 112 K's and threw five complete games.

You're right he didn't dominate though.

He has 2 plus offspeed pitches, sits at 93. But that isnt any good.

His dad / coach limited to one start per week to protect his arm.

He was asking for first round money, which scared a lot of teams away with the fact that Scott Boras was his agent. The Angels wanted to pay him third round money from what it looks like, even though he was a top 5 HS pitcher

I'm not sure where you got your stats or his scouting report from. For one, I can tell your not very good in baseball logic, because if you have 2 plus off-speed pitches and sit at 93, your a top 5 pick NO MATTER what your asking price is. His velocity this spring was 89-92 TOPPING 93, not sitting theres thats a whole different category and he had a good curveball but it was very inconsistent and he didn't command it well. His changeup is below average as he slows his whole arm down very noticeably and his command in general is below average. As for his stats, I will admit, I was thinking of Jack McGeary when I wrote about not dominating but for his competition he should especially in his if you throw in the 90's you will do good. Alot of teams were high on him going into his senior season but he didn't live up to the hype as his velocity and control were both down.

[cmaff051]

If he was sitting 93 and had 2 plus offspeed pitches, the Yankees would have grabbed him. He wasn't.

[34Celtic]

We clearly got our info from two different sources, I trust mine a lot more.

[bigboy1234]

I'll share what I know about Harvey just for the hell of it.

I was led to believe that Matt Harvey was in the same league (mechanically) as Jarrod Parker (whom I covered in Part 1 of the analysis) and Rick Porcello (reviewed in Part 3). Harvey isn't even close to those two.

Harvey stays over the rubber forever and puts me to sleep with his very slow tempo. Because he's so "good" at staying back, Harvey has a short stride and does not finish well. He rotates around a very stiff front leg and seemingly pitches uphill. Luckily, he has excellent arm action....

Harvey was rumored to be going in the middle of the first round. Unfortunately, the hype does not match the mechanics in Harvey's case. He has excellent arm action, so there is hope. He might be worth a third round pick as long as he gets third round money. One word to sum up Harvey? Overrated...

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/artic ... prospects/

Also, from what I know Harvey only has 2 good pitches as is. Here is his scouting report:
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb ... ?mc=harvey

Harvey wanted 2.5M to sign and the Angels biggest offer was 1.5M, more than fair enough, and he may regret not taking that money. 2.5M is #4 slot money, and Harvey just wasn't that good.

Keep in mind I actually loved Harvey and thought he was the 3rd best HS pitcher, and was devastated when the Cards skipped on him 5 times during the draft. Also, just saying, it's pretty silly to use HS stats.

[34Celtic]

I'm going from what I've been told from someone who has known this kid since he was a freshman, maybe this person is biased because they have seen him pitch for four years. I was told the day before the draft if he slipped out of the top 15 it would be an absolute shock.

Big Boy, remember that scouting report was from one of the first games of the season. Weather in New England looks something like this in April
WEATHER CONDITIONS. NUMBER OF DAYS WITH
THUNDERSTORM 0 MIXED PRECIP 0
HEAVY RAIN 5 RAIN 6
LIGHT RAIN 14 FREEZING RAIN 0
LT FREEZING RAIN 0 HAIL 1
HEAVY SNOW 0 SNOW 0
LIGHT SNOW 2 SLEET 3
FOG 13 FOG W/VIS <= 1/4 MILE 3

Low TEMP: 30's
HIGH TEMP: 50's

Its not exactly great baseball weather and really not easy to pitch in

EDIT: The High temperature that day barely hit 40 degrees, and the low was in the upper 20's.

[Chach]

-= original quote snipped =-



we paid like 4 million for brackman.....we know he needs TJ, but its obvious the yanks believe in this surgery since 3 other of our prospects have gotten it....i read scott boras # (granted its prolly inflated), but he gives it a 97% sucess rate....Dr. Andrews performed it for brackman, he is the best in the business, so im really confident brackman will recover 100% from this surgery...this is the luxury the yanks can afford to have and we shouldnt complain bout it: we can pay players with ace potentiall (brackman wouldve been top 5 had he not been injured) big bucks who are injured, get surgery, and then rehab and get em ready to go; if these players werent injured, they wouldnt have fallen to us in the draft....im pretty sure no other team wouldve made this investment in brackman, but we have the financial resources to do so....and like i said b4, if he gives us 6-9 yrs of quality starts, then its a investment tat is well worth it

I don't remember a legitimate source saying Brackman was a #5 pick going into the season or after the season. I heard rumblings that he could go high but that was all on potential because he didn't pitch particularly well his first two seasons at NC State and his third season, while not bad, certainly didn't match up with his potential and now we find out that he has a bum elbow. I don't know bro, that worries me that he's a bit of fluffed up hype.

No team likes surgery, in any form. It is necessary but no team is hoping that their young pitchers need Tommy John surgery or "trust" it as you said. Because while first surgery does have a near perfect success rate, the success rate of second surgeries is considerably lower and when you have a 21 year old who has never pitched full-time and who had to have hurt his elbow during the season (or else his stuff simply doesn't translate to the rotation as well) and tears up his elbow, that makes me question his mechanics because it's not overuse. I'm not saying that Brackman won't make it, far from it. The kid certainly has potential but he makes me nervous and should make you nervous too. Not only that, but the Yankees gave the kid a major league deal with the elbow injury already known. They just wasted two options years on him. That gives him two years to figure it out in the minors before needs to stick for good. That's just a poor move on Cashman's part.

No offense celtic, but if I have to choose between a hardball times review or something a 15 year old said to you, please don't be offended when I said your source isn't worth squat. mahalo
~Chach~

[34Celtic]

Chach, like your first paragraph. As for your second...see your PM about my 'fifteen year old source'

Mahalo

[Pharmcat]

chach, i understand your points

but i guess the bottom line for me is that id much rather invest in players like brackman than go into the FA market and have to pay for flops like pavano or trade for flops like weaver

[Chach]

chach, i understand your points

but i guess the bottom line for me is that id much rather invest in players like brackman than go into the FA market and have to pay for flops like pavano or trade for flops like weaver

While I completely agree with that logic, I think Brackman was a piss poor choice, especially to give a major league contract. I predict he will be Daniel Bard 2.0 except we can stash Bard in the minors for several years if need be. Brackman's got to stick in the bigs two years after fully recovering from surgery. Bad choice.

Celtic, check your PM for my reply. I thought you said you knew A kid who had seen Harvey, not someone who has known him since HARVEY was a kid. Sorry for the mix-up. mahalo
~Chach~

[cmaff051]

Brackman has secondary pitches, Bard doesn't. Bard is a headcase, Brackman isn't.

[Chach]

Bard has a healthy arm, Brackman doesn't.

Health>Psych problems.

mahalo
~Chach~

[34Celtic]

Either way I'm still going to say I would have taken Harvey with this pick. There is something about a kid who continuously hits 94 - 95 (Trust me that first start you guys are all reading reports on was 40 degrees and his first start of the year, Ask Chach...he knows). Brackman has never pitched over 80 innings and already needs surgery? Thats cause for concern.

[Chach]

Either way I'm still going to say I would have taken Harvey with this pick. There is something about a kid who continuously hits 94 - 95 (Trust me that first start you guys are all reading reports on was 40 degrees and his first start of the year, Ask Chach...he knows). Brackman has never pitched over 80 innings and already needs surgery? Thats cause for concern.

While I don't like Harvey as much as you do, I do agree that he would have made a much better selection over Brackman. If anything, he's a Northeast pitcher so that means limited miles on his arm. Brackman had limited miles on his arm and he's already hurt so that's a red flag for me too. mahalo
~Chach~

[34Celtic]

Chach and from what I explained to you the scouting report on mlb.com thats being thrown around here does not explain Harvey's full ability

[Chach]

I understand that. You've got your sources, I've got several, some rosier than others. So that's why I am less than thrilled about him. I think he's a good prospect but I am simply not as high as you are on him. mahalo
~Chach~