What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling?

[TommyPointGawd]

And it’s not even particularly close

Do you still think Hayward is better than Brown?

[MagicBagley18]

And it’s not even particularly close

Do you still think Hayward is better than Brown?

Hayward’s biggest question mark is health....if Hayward was 100% healthy and u can guarantee me that? yes I’d rather have Hayward- unfortunately Hayward can’t stay healthy

[TommyPointGawd]

And it’s not even particularly close

Do you still think Hayward is better than Brown?

Hayward’s biggest question mark is health....if Hayward was 100% healthy and u can guarantee me that? yes I’d rather have Hayward- unfortunately Hayward can’t stay healthy

I find that very interesting. But I respect your opinion.

[MagicBagley18]

Do you still think Hayward is better than Brown?

Hayward’s biggest question mark is health....if Hayward was 100% healthy and u can guarantee me that? yes I’d rather have Hayward- unfortunately Hayward can’t stay healthy

I find that very interesting. But I respect your opinion.

Better play maker- doubles as a ball handler in the 2nd unit, can initiate an offense and has experience as being a true number 1 on a team that won a playoff series and he played well doing so. Now do I think he’ll ever be healthy again? No probably not and even so Jaylen is 23 and Hayward’s pushing 30.

Has Jaylen closed the gap? Yes. Jaylen had a very good year and made improvements- but I still struggle to see Jaylen ever being able to initiate or be a number 1 option on a team ever. He’s way more athletic than Hayward and he’s deadlier in transition because of it.

[FeedReed]

I’m a big Brown fan but he simply doesn’t have the ball handling ability to be a number 1. He has improved but Tatum is so much smoother and natural handling the ball.

his handle has improved a lot. if it hadn’t, he wouldn’t be the best attacker on the team. he turns it over less than tatum does.

This is a bad take. If the shot clock is ticking down and the play has broken down, Jaylen Brown is not the guy you want to have the ball in his hands. Jaylen does most of his damage in the open court, coming off screens and slashing, or spotting up for 3s. Shot creation is not his strong point.

Don't get me wrong - I love the kid, but Jayson Tatum is light years ahead in terms of creating his own shot. Even Brown himself would acknowledge this.

i don’t agree. brown is more efficient on offense, and a better defender than tatum. tatums drives are weaker, and his shot selection is atrocious. what good is “smoothness” if it doesn’t result in something positive? brown has fire and a will to win that i never see from tatum. tatum comes off as a stat stuffing egotistical guy, another carmelo anthony. he isn’t even clutch at all, and i don’t think he’s a winner. you can make a claim for brown being a 1B, but tatum isn’t a 1A. don’t get me wrong, i don’t think tatum is the only problem... going into the ECF with theis as starting C is unacceptable. stevens letting everyone play freely, and not putting a leash on smart(i love smart but those 3s? c’mon) is unacceptable, the rotations were also a joke. i just think tatum is and will be the biggest problem. he doesn’t have the makeup to lead this team to a championship.

[Feed Your Head]

his handle has improved a lot. if it hadn’t, he wouldn’t be the best attacker on the team. he turns it over less than tatum does.

This is a bad take. If the shot clock is ticking down and the play has broken down, Jaylen Brown is not the guy you want to have the ball in his hands. Jaylen does most of his damage in the open court, coming off screens and slashing, or spotting up for 3s. Shot creation is not his strong point.

Don't get me wrong - I love the kid, but Jayson Tatum is light years ahead in terms of creating his own shot. Even Brown himself would acknowledge this.

i don’t agree. brown is more efficient on offense, and a better defender than tatum. tatums drives are weaker, and his shot selection is atrocious. what good is “smoothness” if it doesn’t result in something positive? brown has fire and a will to win that i never see from tatum. tatum comes off as a stat stuffing egotistical guy, another carmelo anthony. he isn’t even clutch at all, and i don’t think he’s a winner. you can make a claim for brown being a 1B, but tatum isn’t a 1A. don’t get me wrong, i don’t think tatum is the only problem... going into the ECF with theis as starting C is unacceptable. stevens letting everyone play freely, and not putting a leash on smart(i love smart but those 3s? c’mon) is unacceptable, the rotations were also a joke. i just think tatum is and will be the biggest problem. he doesn’t have the makeup to lead this team to a championship.

Jaylen had a TS of 58% in the regular season, and 59% in the playoffs. Tatum has a TS of 57% in the regular season, and 56% in the playoffs, despite having much more defensive attention and having to create for himself almost 25% of the time more than Jaylen in the playoffs. If the roles were reversed, I think we know how the TS would look.

Tatum was the biggest net positive player on the team this season, and it was by far. Tatum struggled in the clutch in the playoffs, but was statistically the best crunch time player in the league during the regular season. Jaylen is a better man defender, Tatum is a better team defender. There isn’t a stat you could find that shows Jaylen on the same level as Tatum as an overall player, this is just you having an opinion that you don’t want to budge from. Earlier you said Jaylen turns it over less than Tatum, but Tatum had a lower turnover rate in the regular season and playoffs, while having a MUCH higher assist rate. He just averaged 26/10/5 in the playoffs as the focal point of defenses lol, and had the best net rating of any of the main guys. Almost everything about your posts today on this subject have been factually incorrect.

[TommyPointGawd]

his handle has improved a lot. if it hadn’t, he wouldn’t be the best attacker on the team. he turns it over less than tatum does.

This is a bad take. If the shot clock is ticking down and the play has broken down, Jaylen Brown is not the guy you want to have the ball in his hands. Jaylen does most of his damage in the open court, coming off screens and slashing, or spotting up for 3s. Shot creation is not his strong point.

Don't get me wrong - I love the kid, but Jayson Tatum is light years ahead in terms of creating his own shot. Even Brown himself would acknowledge this.

i don’t agree. brown is more efficient on offense, and a better defender than tatum. tatums drives are weaker, and his shot selection is atrocious. what good is “smoothness” if it doesn’t result in something positive? brown has fire and a will to win that i never see from tatum. tatum comes off as a stat stuffing egotistical guy, another carmelo anthony. he isn’t even clutch at all, and i don’t think he’s a winner. you can make a claim for brown being a 1B, but tatum isn’t a 1A. don’t get me wrong, i don’t think tatum is the only problem... going into the ECF with theis as starting C is unacceptable. stevens letting everyone play freely, and not putting a leash on smart(i love smart but those 3s? c’mon) is unacceptable, the rotations were also a joke. i just think tatum is and will be the biggest problem. he doesn’t have the makeup to lead this team to a championship.

Reverse Couch?
Don't speak ill of Tatum. His PR team will be here instantly. Also you are pretty wrong

[keevsnick1]

This is a bad take. If the shot clock is ticking down and the play has broken down, Jaylen Brown is not the guy you want to have the ball in his hands. Jaylen does most of his damage in the open court, coming off screens and slashing, or spotting up for 3s. Shot creation is not his strong point.

Don't get me wrong - I love the kid, but Jayson Tatum is light years ahead in terms of creating his own shot. Even Brown himself would acknowledge this.

i don’t agree. brown is more efficient on offense, and a better defender than tatum. tatums drives are weaker, and his shot selection is atrocious. what good is “smoothness” if it doesn’t result in something positive? brown has fire and a will to win that i never see from tatum. tatum comes off as a stat stuffing egotistical guy, another carmelo anthony. he isn’t even clutch at all, and i don’t think he’s a winner. you can make a claim for brown being a 1B, but tatum isn’t a 1A. don’t get me wrong, i don’t think tatum is the only problem... going into the ECF with theis as starting C is unacceptable. stevens letting everyone play freely, and not putting a leash on smart(i love smart but those 3s? c’mon) is unacceptable, the rotations were also a joke. i just think tatum is and will be the biggest problem. he doesn’t have the makeup to lead this team to a championship.

Reverse Couch?
Don't speak ill of Tatum. His PR team will be here instantly. Also you are pretty wrong

Even in the Jaylen Brown thread we have to spend half the time talking about Tatum. Brown can't catch a break.

[BostonCouchGM]

This is a bad take. If the shot clock is ticking down and the play has broken down, Jaylen Brown is not the guy you want to have the ball in his hands. Jaylen does most of his damage in the open court, coming off screens and slashing, or spotting up for 3s. Shot creation is not his strong point.

Don't get me wrong - I love the kid, but Jayson Tatum is light years ahead in terms of creating his own shot. Even Brown himself would acknowledge this.

i don’t agree. brown is more efficient on offense, and a better defender than tatum. tatums drives are weaker, and his shot selection is atrocious. what good is “smoothness” if it doesn’t result in something positive? brown has fire and a will to win that i never see from tatum. tatum comes off as a stat stuffing egotistical guy, another carmelo anthony. he isn’t even clutch at all, and i don’t think he’s a winner. you can make a claim for brown being a 1B, but tatum isn’t a 1A. don’t get me wrong, i don’t think tatum is the only problem... going into the ECF with theis as starting C is unacceptable. stevens letting everyone play freely, and not putting a leash on smart(i love smart but those 3s? c’mon) is unacceptable, the rotations were also a joke. i just think tatum is and will be the biggest problem. he doesn’t have the makeup to lead this team to a championship.

Jaylen had a TS of 58% in the regular season, and 59% in the playoffs. Tatum has a TS of 57% in the regular season, and 56% in the playoffs, despite having much more defensive attention and having to create for himself almost 25% of the time more than Jaylen in the playoffs. If the roles were reversed, I think we know how the TS would look.

Tatum was the biggest net positive player on the team this season, and it was by far. Tatum struggled in the clutch in the playoffs, but was statistically the best crunch time player in the league during the regular season. Jaylen is a better man defender, Tatum is a better team defender. There isn’t a stat you could find that shows Jaylen on the same level as Tatum as an overall player, this is just you having an opinion that you don’t want to budge from. Earlier you said Jaylen turns it over less than Tatum, but Tatum had a lower turnover rate in the regular season and playoffs, while having a MUCH higher assist rate. He just averaged 26/10/5 in the playoffs as the focal point of defenses lol, and had the best net rating of any of the main guys. Almost everything about your posts today on this subject have been factually incorrect.

not true. Tatum is a fantastic overall defender on man and is slightly better than Jaylen there. But he's a terrific team defender unlike Jaylen who is actually average due to his low BBIQ which has him taking incorrect angles, over or under when the opposite is called for, napping which allows back screens and not fighting through traffic. Agree about everything else though. There are tiers to this thing. Tatum is a tier if not two, above Jaylen. And he's a year younger. Tatum is a complete two-way player whereas Jaylen is a 3 and sometimes D in a supporting cast role. Jaylen is Harrison Barnes 2.0. It's actually uncanny

[Floody100]

i don’t agree. brown is more efficient on offense, and a better defender than tatum. tatums drives are weaker, and his shot selection is atrocious. what good is “smoothness” if it doesn’t result in something positive? brown has fire and a will to win that i never see from tatum. tatum comes off as a stat stuffing egotistical guy, another carmelo anthony. he isn’t even clutch at all, and i don’t think he’s a winner. you can make a claim for brown being a 1B, but tatum isn’t a 1A. don’t get me wrong, i don’t think tatum is the only problem... going into the ECF with theis as starting C is unacceptable. stevens letting everyone play freely, and not putting a leash on smart(i love smart but those 3s? c’mon) is unacceptable, the rotations were also a joke. i just think tatum is and will be the biggest problem. he doesn’t have the makeup to lead this team to a championship.

Jaylen had a TS of 58% in the regular season, and 59% in the playoffs. Tatum has a TS of 57% in the regular season, and 56% in the playoffs, despite having much more defensive attention and having to create for himself almost 25% of the time more than Jaylen in the playoffs. If the roles were reversed, I think we know how the TS would look.

Tatum was the biggest net positive player on the team this season, and it was by far. Tatum struggled in the clutch in the playoffs, but was statistically the best crunch time player in the league during the regular season. Jaylen is a better man defender, Tatum is a better team defender. There isn’t a stat you could find that shows Jaylen on the same level as Tatum as an overall player, this is just you having an opinion that you don’t want to budge from. Earlier you said Jaylen turns it over less than Tatum, but Tatum had a lower turnover rate in the regular season and playoffs, while having a MUCH higher assist rate. He just averaged 26/10/5 in the playoffs as the focal point of defenses lol, and had the best net rating of any of the main guys. Almost everything about your posts today on this subject have been factually incorrect.

not true. Tatum is a fantastic overall defender on man and is slightly better than Jaylen there. But he's a terrific team defender unlike Jaylen who is actually average due to his low BBIQ which has him taking incorrect angles, over or under when the opposite is called for, napping which allows back screens and not fighting through traffic. Agree about everything else though. There are tiers to this thing. Tatum is a tier if not two, above Jaylen. And he's a year younger. Tatum is a complete two-way player whereas Jaylen is a 3 and sometimes D in a supporting cast role. Jaylen is Harrison Barnes 2.0. It's actually uncanny

At least with Cave he came out with some valid arguments when we were debating Jaylen & his contract. You’re hatred for Jaylen is beyond obvious.

[themoneyteam2]

i don’t agree. brown is more efficient on offense, and a better defender than tatum. tatums drives are weaker, and his shot selection is atrocious. what good is “smoothness” if it doesn’t result in something positive? brown has fire and a will to win that i never see from tatum. tatum comes off as a stat stuffing egotistical guy, another carmelo anthony. he isn’t even clutch at all, and i don’t think he’s a winner. you can make a claim for brown being a 1B, but tatum isn’t a 1A. don’t get me wrong, i don’t think tatum is the only problem... going into the ECF with theis as starting C is unacceptable. stevens letting everyone play freely, and not putting a leash on smart(i love smart but those 3s? c’mon) is unacceptable, the rotations were also a joke. i just think tatum is and will be the biggest problem. he doesn’t have the makeup to lead this team to a championship.

Jaylen had a TS of 58% in the regular season, and 59% in the playoffs. Tatum has a TS of 57% in the regular season, and 56% in the playoffs, despite having much more defensive attention and having to create for himself almost 25% of the time more than Jaylen in the playoffs. If the roles were reversed, I think we know how the TS would look.

Tatum was the biggest net positive player on the team this season, and it was by far. Tatum struggled in the clutch in the playoffs, but was statistically the best crunch time player in the league during the regular season. Jaylen is a better man defender, Tatum is a better team defender. There isn’t a stat you could find that shows Jaylen on the same level as Tatum as an overall player, this is just you having an opinion that you don’t want to budge from. Earlier you said Jaylen turns it over less than Tatum, but Tatum had a lower turnover rate in the regular season and playoffs, while having a MUCH higher assist rate. He just averaged 26/10/5 in the playoffs as the focal point of defenses lol, and had the best net rating of any of the main guys. Almost everything about your posts today on this subject have been factually incorrect.

not true. Tatum is a fantastic overall defender on man and is slightly better than Jaylen there. But he's a terrific team defender unlike Jaylen who is actually average due to his low BBIQ which has him taking incorrect angles, over or under when the opposite is called for, napping which allows back screens and not fighting through traffic. Agree about everything else though. There are tiers to this thing. Tatum is a tier if not two, above Jaylen. And he's a year younger. Tatum is a complete two-way player whereas Jaylen is a 3 and sometimes D in a supporting cast role. Jaylen is Harrison Barnes 2.0. It's actually uncanny

He’s already better at 23 yrs old than Harrison Barnes has ever been.

When are you gonna just give it up already? I mean I respect the effort to hate on Brown and basically all Celtics players minus Tatum but it’s gotta get exhausting at some point for you, right?

[Parliament10]

Jaylen had a TS of 58% in the regular season, and 59% in the playoffs. Tatum has a TS of 57% in the regular season, and 56% in the playoffs, despite having much more defensive attention and having to create for himself almost 25% of the time more than Jaylen in the playoffs. If the roles were reversed, I think we know how the TS would look.

Tatum was the biggest net positive player on the team this season, and it was by far. Tatum struggled in the clutch in the playoffs, but was statistically the best crunch time player in the league during the regular season. Jaylen is a better man defender, Tatum is a better team defender. There isn’t a stat you could find that shows Jaylen on the same level as Tatum as an overall player, this is just you having an opinion that you don’t want to budge from. Earlier you said Jaylen turns it over less than Tatum, but Tatum had a lower turnover rate in the regular season and playoffs, while having a MUCH higher assist rate. He just averaged 26/10/5 in the playoffs as the focal point of defenses lol, and had the best net rating of any of the main guys. Almost everything about your posts today on this subject have been factually incorrect.

not true. Tatum is a fantastic overall defender on man and is slightly better than Jaylen there. But he's a terrific team defender unlike Jaylen who is actually average due to his low BBIQ which has him taking incorrect angles, over or under when the opposite is called for, napping which allows back screens and not fighting through traffic. Agree about everything else though. There are tiers to this thing. Tatum is a tier if not two, above Jaylen. And he's a year younger. Tatum is a complete two-way player whereas Jaylen is a 3 and sometimes D in a supporting cast role. Jaylen is Harrison Barnes 2.0. It's actually uncanny

He’s already better at 23 yrs old than Harrison Barnes has ever been.

When are you gonna just give it up already? I mean I respect the effort to hate on Brown and basically all Celtics players minus Tatum but it’s gotta get exhausting at some point for you, right?

Jaylen is a great two-way player. I see him getting the call for several all-star game in his career.
And as stated, he's only 23.

[Fencer reregistered]

Hayward’s biggest question mark is health....if Hayward was 100% healthy and u can guarantee me that? yes I’d rather have Hayward- unfortunately Hayward can’t stay healthy

I find that very interesting. But I respect your opinion.

Better play maker- doubles as a ball handler in the 2nd unit, can initiate an offense and has experience as being a true number 1 on a team that won a playoff series and he played well doing so. Now do I think he’ll ever be healthy again? No probably not and even so Jaylen is 23 and Hayward’s pushing 30.

Has Jaylen closed the gap? Yes. Jaylen had a very good year and made improvements- but I still struggle to see Jaylen ever being able to initiate or be a number 1 option on a team ever. He’s way more athletic than Hayward and he’s deadlier in transition because of it.

Jaylen has also surpassed healthy Hayward on defense, with his athleticism outweighing any remaining Hayward advantage in savvy.

[greenroom31]

Anyone saying Hayward is better than Jaylen is living in the past or imagining some idyllic version of what Hayward is capable of in a single game when healthy.

Hayward may be have a more complete skill set, but he’s declining and way less consistent. Night in night out for a full season I’d go with Jaylen 10 times out of 10 at this point.

[chrisab123]

Anyone saying Hayward is better than Jaylen is living in the past or imagining some idyllic version of what Hayward is capable of in a single game when healthy.

Hayward may be have a more complete skill set, but he’s declining and way less consistent. Night in night out for a full season I’d go with Jaylen 10 times out of 10 at this point.

You could say that if both were healthy Hayward is the better player for 2021 but that you'd rather have Brown. Both would be very defendable responses. I just don't think Hayward is needed as much as bench depth and someone like a Kyle Korver with a much less punchable face. JJ Reddick would be cool too in a perfect world.

[greenroom31]

Anyone saying Hayward is better than Jaylen is living in the past or imagining some idyllic version of what Hayward is capable of in a single game when healthy.

Hayward may be have a more complete skill set, but he’s declining and way less consistent. Night in night out for a full season I’d go with Jaylen 10 times out of 10 at this point.

You could say that if both were healthy Hayward is the better player for 2021 but that you'd rather have Brown. Both would be very defendable responses. I just don't think Hayward is needed as much as bench depth and someone like a Kyle Korver with a much less punchable face. JJ Reddick would be cool too in a perfect world.

No, I would say that Hayward will likely still be the more SKILLED player in 2021, but that Jaylen is the better OVERALL player due to defense, toughness, athleticism, and consistency.

Excluding months with 4 games or less due to sample size, Jaylen's worst PPG for a month was 18.9 and best was 22.9. Hayward's range was 13.9 to 19.0. So Jaylen's worst month as a scorer was Hayward's best month in other words. Other than the extra 2 assists per game, Hayward really doesn't have a statistical edge on Jaylen at this point.

Factor in their trajectories, age and health (Hayward will definitely need more days to rest even if he stays healthy) and that's why I'd pick Jaylen every time.

[ConstableGeneva]

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[Fencer reregistered]

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At his best he looks roughly equivalent to Tatum, albeit with more speed/hops/power but less length and finesse. That said:
-- It's common for Tatum to face more defensive attention than Brown ...
-- ... but that isn't always the case.
-- Brown has one significant finesse advantage over Tatum -- he's more thoughtful and energetic about getting himself open, in the half court and in transition alike.