2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch - Revised Poll

[Kerrsed]

I simply don't think he has the quickness to guard modern 4s for extended periods of time. Now this is in part because I firmly believe they should play small around Ayton, it's possible the suns don't agree with me on that.

I wouldn't hate it if the picked Smith because they could use a backup big and he seems like a decent prospect it just wouldn't be my favorite pick.

As far as developing a PG I do agree it's the riskier move because in general they take time before they are good. Now I don't really take the suns history with that into consideration because to me what's been done with past staffs isn't relevant. They do have the luxury of having Rubio for that guy to play behind for 2 years and even a vet in Payne that you would have for that player to beat out and earn the job. It's about as good of a set up to develop a PG as you'll find but I still admit it's a risk. With that said the roster construction upside of actually hitting on a PG is huge.

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So IF at 10, All of Toppin/ Hayes/ Haliburton/ Vassell are already gone! Then do you have another prospect in mind that would be a solid consideration that's still on the board/available ( genuinely curious)?

Are we assuming Ball, Edwards, wiseman are off the board? So that would mean one of Okoro, Deni, or Okongwu are available. I like Deni quite a bit. I have mixed feelings on Okoro but would be fine with the pick. I really like Okongwu as a prospect, like I think he's on another tier than a guy like Smith but his fit with the suns is a bit sketchy.

Id take Patrick Williams ahead of Smith. I really like his upside as a big wing who can play the 4. I also like Lewis, Terry, and Maxey ahead of Smith. I know this is in the minority but I'd take most of those guys ahead of Toppin too.

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Out of the 10 players listed here, i think the one most likely to be there at #10 is the one i would most likely be disappointed in and thats Okoro. I think the probability of each guy being there is Okoro then Vassell then Hayes with a small chance that 9 teams pass on Wiseman because of him not being a "Modern C" and limited games played.

Out of just those 10 players, my Suns Big Board would look like this:

1. Ball
2. Toppin
3. Haliburton
4. Okongwu
5. Hayes
6. Edwards
7. Wiseman
8. Deni
9. Vassell
10. Okoro

And honestly there are other players i would probably draft over guys like Deni/Vassell/Okoro and maybe even Wiseman.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I simply don't think he has the quickness to guard modern 4s for extended periods of time. Now this is in part because I firmly believe they should play small around Ayton, it's possible the suns don't agree with me on that.

I wouldn't hate it if the picked Smith because they could use a backup big and he seems like a decent prospect it just wouldn't be my favorite pick.

As far as developing a PG I do agree it's the riskier move because in general they take time before they are good. Now I don't really take the suns history with that into consideration because to me what's been done with past staffs isn't relevant. They do have the luxury of having Rubio for that guy to play behind for 2 years and even a vet in Payne that you would have for that player to beat out and earn the job. It's about as good of a set up to develop a PG as you'll find but I still admit it's a risk. With that said the roster construction upside of actually hitting on a PG is huge.

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So IF at 10, All of Toppin/ Hayes/ Haliburton/ Vassell are already gone! Then do you have another prospect in mind that would be a solid consideration that's still on the board/available ( genuinely curious)?

Are we assuming Ball, Edwards, wiseman are off the board? So that would mean one of Okoro, Deni, or Okongwu are available. I like Deni quite a bit. I have mixed feelings on Okoro but would be fine with the pick. I really like Okongwu as a prospect, like I think he's on another tier than a guy like Smith but his fit with the suns is a bit sketchy.

Id take Patrick Williams ahead of Smith. I really like his upside as a big wing who can play the 4. I also like Lewis, Terry, and Maxey ahead of Smith. I know this is in the minority but I'd take most of those guys ahead of Toppin too.

Overall I actually don't mind this class and what's going to be there for the suns so its unlikely I'll actually hate any pick. I don't really see game changers but plenty of decent players.

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Definitely not bad considerations at all man!
Also, Just an opinion, But the way I see it playing out is something like this: ( If we're going off of the varying reports) :

1- Minnesota
Ball. They think it'd be more productive to have Russell at shooting guard.

2- Golden State
*Avdija. It's been reported that they'll definitely trade their pick. But IF they don't, Then they'll draft Avdija.

3- Charlotte
Okungwu. They originally wanted Ball, But with him gone, They opt for the best Big available.

4- Chicago
Haliburton. ( They wanted Avdija, But with him gone, They'll choose the 2nd on their list.

5- Cleveland
Edwards. They have hoped for him to fall to them, And he did! Otherwise their top choice would've been Avdija for their wing.

6- Atlanta
Okoro. Atlanta covets both Okoro and Vassell. But chooses Okoro for his better playmaking and higher potential upside. Also they intend to sign Jerami Grant in free agency for their 3/ backup 4 compliment to Collins!

7- Detroit
Hayes. Detroit actually highly covets Haliburton, But since he's already gone, They'll Happily take Hayes as he has one of the highest ceilings in the draft. And they love his potential as a lead guard.

8- New York
Vassell. New York would have loved Ball, But since he's not available, AND with Thibs coveting defensive players above all, They take Vassell ( Thibs gets sentimental over the Covington potential of Vassell to play off of either RJ Barrett at the 3, Or off of Van Vleet or Dragic or Augustine whom they'll pursue in free agency.

9- Washington
Wiseman. Washington really coveted Okungwu and Okoro/ Vassell. But with all three already gone,
They'll strongly consider Toppin here, But the huge potential upside of Wiseman is just too much for them to pass on.

10- Phoenix
Toppin. Phoenix actually preferred Vassell or Haliburton, But with both already gone, They're pretty happy to have Toppin fall to them!
* IF this happens, look for them to move Oubre to Detroit for Kennard/ Henson's 9 million expiring cap space. Or if they decide to keep Oubre for now, Then look for him to acquire a late first to early 2nd for Bane. Overall, I don't think that this would be a bad outcome at all, But if we were to draft Toppin, Then I'd hope that we'd look to acquire late first for Tyler Bey.
That way, We could have our Amare/ Marion 2.0 prospects on board. But ultimately, Barring any wild unforeseen trades occurring, That's how I see things playing out.

[Ghost of Kleine]

So IF at 10, All of Toppin/ Hayes/ Haliburton/ Vassell are already gone! Then do you have another prospect in mind that would be a solid consideration that's still on the board/available ( genuinely curious)?

Are we assuming Ball, Edwards, wiseman are off the board? So that would mean one of Okoro, Deni, or Okongwu are available. I like Deni quite a bit. I have mixed feelings on Okoro but would be fine with the pick. I really like Okongwu as a prospect, like I think he's on another tier than a guy like Smith but his fit with the suns is a bit sketchy.

Id take Patrick Williams ahead of Smith. I really like his upside as a big wing who can play the 4. I also like Lewis, Terry, and Maxey ahead of Smith. I know this is in the minority but I'd take most of those guys ahead of Toppin too.

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Out of the 10 players listed here, i think the one most likely to be there at #10 is the one i would most likely be disappointed in and thats Okoro. I think the probability of each guy being there is Okoro then Vassell then Hayes with a small chance that 9 teams pass on Wiseman because of him not being a "Modern C" and limited games played.

Out of just those 10 players, my Suns Big Board would look like this:

1. Ball
2. Toppin
3. Haliburton
4. Okongwu
5. Hayes
6. Edwards
7. Wiseman
8. Deni
9. Vassell
10. Okoro

And honestly there are other players i would probably draft over guys like Deni/Vassell/Okoro and maybe even Wiseman.

Really good list man. Okoro I really like for his defensive upside, But something about his lack of shooting ability really makes me cringe, And gives me Josh Jackson vibes. Although he is bigger, stronger, and vastly more intelligent.

But IF we could guarantee at least one of these two things, Then I could feel better about this possibility:
1- Hiring David Nurse to personally work with him on his shooting mechanics, efficiency.
2- A trade of Oubre for Kennard ( IF his medicals check out). See he can play off of a strong offensive perimeter weapon. IF Kennard is not an option, Then I'd [b]Absolutely[/b] look to add a mid to late 2nd for either Sam Merrill or Isiah Joe ( perimeter shooting). And then run Okoro at the 3 off the bench, With a bench lineup of:
Kennard? / Okoro/ Cam/ Saric/ Baynes?
** We use the cap space from the Oubre trade to Sign Woods ( 30/3 with benchmark incentives). So our lineups become:

Starters/u]
Rubio/ Booker / Bridges/ Woods/ Ayton.

[u]Bench/ 2nd unit
Kennard/ Okoro/ Cam/ Saric/ Baynes.
* or if Baynes leaves then......
Kennard/ Okoro/ Bridges/ Cam/ Saric???

3rd string bench
Payne/ Carter/ Merrill/ Saric/ Wood?
( or Joe)
I really like the potential of this lineup. and IF Giannis became available via trade, AND would assure us of resigning, Then we'd have a really solid trade package of - Kennard/ Okoro/ Cam/ Ayton/ multiple firsts (3-4)?

[WeekapaugGroove]

I love Okoros size/strength and defensive awareness that's a combination that can be super valuable for a playoff team because you need that stopper against the elite guys. I think he has some handle too. It all that damn shot, but I guess is he could shoot he'd be a lock for top 3. If he develops it to even an average level he'll be a hell of a player.

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[Kerrsed]

Really good list man. Okoro I really like for his defensive upside, But something about his lack of shooting ability really makes me cringe, And gives me Josh Jackson vibes. Although he is bigger, stronger, and vastly more intelligent.

Josh Jackson was much bigger (Taller) than Okoro. Jackson was 6"8 coming into the draft. Thats a good 2 inches over Okoro. Not to mention that every draft site had Jacksons Basketball IQ as one of his biggest strengths. The only 2 knocks on Jackson were his shooting and his body language/Temper.

What scares me about Okoro is his size (6'6 is kinda small for a SF) and his shooting. He scores most his points attacking the hoop. He lacks quickness and explosiveness, and instead uses his 225lb frame to plow into the lane. It worked in college as it forced guys to foul him (Averaged 5 FTA a game) or get out of his way, but against bigger guys in the NBA and better defenders its going to limit his offense and take away from the one way that he can score. 28% from 3 on 2.5 attempts a game and less than 70% from the charity stripe (67% to be exact) is pretty bad.

To me he has one good skillset from college and thats his defense. Will it translate to the NBA? No one knows, but if it doesnt than he has no NBA skillset. On top of that finding good defenders that are already in the league that are also limited on offense is pretty easy. Doesnt make sense to me to gamble a pick on a guy with one skillset that you can pick-up an already NBA talent for cheap that has already demonstrated he can do it in the NBA. I just think having a very limited offense and being a bad shooter makes you a huge liability in the league.

Okoro reminds me a lot of Justise Winslow when he came into the league from Duke. Very similar players but Winslow was a tad better at shooting and had great speed.

[WeekapaugGroove]

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Brightside with a write up on Williams. He's one of my favorite swing for upside guys in this class.

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[Crives]

For those of you who like empty gym videos

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Really good list man. Okoro I really like for his defensive upside, But something about his lack of shooting ability really makes me cringe, And gives me Josh Jackson vibes. Although he is bigger, stronger, and vastly more intelligent.

Josh Jackson was much bigger (Taller) than Okoro. Jackson was 6"8 coming into the draft. Thats a good 2 inches over Okoro. Not to mention that every draft site had Jacksons Basketball IQ as one of his biggest strengths. The only 2 knocks on Jackson were his shooting and his body language/Temper.

What scares me about Okoro is his size (6'6 is kinda small for a SF) and his shooting. He scores most his points attacking the hoop. He lacks quickness and explosiveness, and instead uses his 225lb frame to plow into the lane. It worked in college as it forced guys to foul him (Averaged 5 FTA a game) or get out of his way, but against bigger guys in the NBA and better defenders its going to limit his offense and take away from the one way that he can score. 28% from 3 on 2.5 attempts a game and less than 70% from the charity stripe (67% to be exact) is pretty bad.

To me he has one good skillset from college and thats his defense. Will it translate to the NBA? No one knows, but if it doesnt than he has no NBA skillset. On top of that finding good defenders that are already in the league that are also limited on offense is pretty easy. Doesnt make sense to me to gamble a pick on a guy with one skillset that you can pick-up an already NBA talent for cheap that has already demonstrated he can do it in the NBA. I just think having a very limited offense and being a bad shooter makes you a huge liability in the league.

Okoro reminds me a lot of Justise Winslow when he came into the league from Duke. Very similar players but Winslow was a tad better at shooting and had great speed.

Sorry! I worded the reference about Jackson rather poorly by saying bigger. I should have said stronger, Thicker? That might have been more appropriate? And I was unaware of Jacksons' IQ being a selling point at the time of the draft, I thought his main selling point was his elite athleticism ( upside ) defensive potential? For what it's worth, He made quite a few pretty boneheaded decisions, But perhaps that can be more attributed to youth! Either way, It was definitely a disappointing outcome with him overall.

Anyways, I know that you're cool with Desmond Bane for his elite 3 point shooting prowess and strength ( in the mold of a bigger yet less explosive Eric Gordon) IQ, etc. But what are your thoughts on Isiah Joe and Especially Sam Merrill for extreme value picks as potential late first/ early 2nd prospects (Isiah Joe) ..................
Jackson Frank (@jackfrank_jjf) Tweeted:
Isaiah Joe is more than an off-ball shooter. He's a legit pull-up shooter and space creator, having ranked in the 89th and 97th percentile off-the-dribble through 2 collegiate seasons.

Draft this man in the top 30. https://t.co/6sGXvOs60g

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Or late 2nd - undrafted two way pickup (Sam Merrill)............
Zach Milner (@ZachMilner13) Tweeted:
Currently digging a little deeper into Sam Merrill's shooting throughout his career.

Merrill had a career 42.0 3PT%, and shot 47.8% on "Spot Up No Dribble" 3s. Incredible shooter. https://t.co/GmDwq14S6Q

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FREAKING 47% over a 4 yr career!


Mike Schmitz (@Mike_Schmitz) Tweeted:
Outstanding 2-way performance for Utah State 6-5 guard Sam Merrill in a Mountain West Conference Tourney win over SDSU. Walk-off 3 and helped limit Malachi Flynn (Conference POY) to 6-for-20 shooting. Could he be the next vet to have an instant NBA impact? https://t.co/vX9u4TE6Bd https://t.co/Caapag8WEq

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Watch on YouTube

The video has him compared to Bogdanovic, But I see a mix of Kennard/ Joe Harris. Any of these outcomes would be an absolute steal for us on a two way contract. As for his athleticism and explosiveness, I'm not too worried about that, As he should be able to improve that through a professional NBA strength and conditioning program! I'd love for either of Merrill or Joe to be our dual 6th man scoring "Flamethrower" with Cam off the bench.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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So Bane it is!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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[bwgood77]

Bane at #10 would be horrible.

We could probably get him in the early 2nd round with a trade.

Sign me up for Bane at #10.

[bwgood77]

So IF at 10, All of Toppin/ Hayes/ Haliburton/ Vassell are already gone! Then do you have another prospect in mind that would be a solid consideration that's still on the board/available ( genuinely curious)?

Are we assuming Ball, Edwards, wiseman are off the board? So that would mean one of Okoro, Deni, or Okongwu are available. I like Deni quite a bit. I have mixed feelings on Okoro but would be fine with the pick. I really like Okongwu as a prospect, like I think he's on another tier than a guy like Smith but his fit with the suns is a bit sketchy.

Id take Patrick Williams ahead of Smith. I really like his upside as a big wing who can play the 4. I also like Lewis, Terry, and Maxey ahead of Smith. I know this is in the minority but I'd take most of those guys ahead of Toppin too.

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Out of the 10 players listed here, i think the one most likely to be there at #10 is the one i would most likely be disappointed in and thats Okoro. I think the probability of each guy being there is Okoro then Vassell then Hayes with a small chance that 9 teams pass on Wiseman because of him not being a "Modern C" and limited games played.

Out of just those 10 players, my Suns Big Board would look like this:

1. Ball
2. Toppin
3. Haliburton
4. Okongwu
5. Hayes
6. Edwards
7. Wiseman
8. Deni
9. Vassell
10. Okoro

And honestly there are other players i would probably draft over guys like Deni/Vassell/Okoro and maybe even Wiseman.

Yeah, I'm the same way...I was glad when Okoro started getting mocked in the top 10 because I figured if that happened, a better chance to get a guy better for us, but if we took him, I wouldn't be too happy.

[bwgood77]

I love Okoros size/strength and defensive awareness that's a combination that can be super valuable for a playoff team because you need that stopper against the elite guys. I think he has some handle too. It all that damn shot, but I guess is he could shoot he'd be a lock for top 3. If he develops it to even an average level he'll be a hell of a player.

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There are things to like about Okoro, and I love great defenders but I also love people who are great at specific things. I see in another post you mention you would take a number of guys projected well out of the top 10 above Toppin. Reading that and then this post I assume you'd take Okoro WELL ahead of Toppin. And perhaps Okoro becomes a stud and Toppin is a bust, but to me, it kind of seems like an Amare Stoudemire with a 3 comparison with Andre Roberson. Both phenomenal at their strengths but one very weak on defense and one very weak on offense.

Obviously neither player will likely be as good as those I mentioned at their strengths, but Obi should be better than Amare at 3 pt shooting and passing.

You know I love defensive guys too and we are usually on the same page on a lot of things like I loved Isaac (wanted him in that draft), JJJ, and Bridges. I also love shooting and ball movement.

The way Toppin took college by storm this year when he wasn't on the radar like Trae Young and Ja Morant was crazy.

I was re-reading earlier posts in this thread and the poster who made posts 36 and 38 (I believe) who posted VERY early about him after watching a few games, was very astute...interesting Toppin cleaned up on player of the year awards.

It will be interesting to see if Toppin is a valuable player on a team in the rotation or someone who really doesn't amount to much..the latter would surprise me quite a bit.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Well to be fair, That very likely could be the format for the season in January. So these players may just be prepping for the new improved NBA!

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2020/09/29/suns-interview-point-guards-tre-jones-duke-stanfords-tyrell-terry/3571953001/

[WeekapaugGroove]

I love Okoros size/strength and defensive awareness that's a combination that can be super valuable for a playoff team because you need that stopper against the elite guys. I think he has some handle too. It all that damn shot, but I guess is he could shoot he'd be a lock for top 3. If he develops it to even an average level he'll be a hell of a player.

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There are things to like about Okoro, and I love great defenders but I also love people who are great at specific things. I see in another post you mention you would take a number of guys projected well out of the top 10 above Toppin. Reading that and then this post I assume you'd take Okoro WELL ahead of Toppin. And perhaps Okoro becomes a stud and Toppin is a bust, but to me, it kind of seems like an Amare Stoudemire with a 3 comparison with Andre Roberson. Both phenomenal at their strengths but one very weak on defense and one very weak on offense.

Obviously neither player will likely be as good as those I mentioned at their strengths, but Obi should be better than Amare at 3 pt shooting and passing.

You know I love defensive guys too and we are usually on the same page on a lot of things like I loved Isaac (wanted him in that draft), JJJ, and Bridges. I also love shooting and ball movement.

The way Toppin took college by storm this year when he wasn't on the radar like Trae Young and Ja Morant was crazy.

I was re-reading earlier posts in this thread and the poster who made posts 36 and 38 (I believe) who posted VERY early about him after watching a few games, was very astute...interesting Toppin cleaned up on player of the year awards.

It will be interesting to see if Toppin is a valuable player on a team in the rotation or someone who really doesn't amount to much..the latter would surprise me quite a bit.

I'm probably too harsh on Toppin. I think it's partly as a bucks fan I have Jabari Parker PTSD, a PF who just couldn't guard or move his damn feet. But it's really more an Ayton thing, I really want him to be a cornerstone guy and I just truly believe the best way to play around him is small and switchy.

If both Okoro and Toppin were sitting there I honestly don't know who I'd prefer because I don't really love either for this team. Maybe I'd lean Okoro because shooting definitely can be learned but of course it's far from a given.

My other dudes are just kind of guys who fall in the types I tend to get smitten with. Williams is that long athletic can do a bunch of things type that I always love. I also just kind of like this guard class even though I'm sure like half bust. Part of this is just seeing what even Cam **** Payne brought to this squad in the bubble, his pace and shooting added so much. If I actually thought he could do that long term I wouldn't want a guard but realistically he probably regresses so I'd love to find someone to be that guy.

Vassell is another guy I just love and even though he's a little redundant I would love that pick, I think he's going to be a really valuable player. Haliburton too.

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[darmani]

I wouldn't draft Toppin in the top-20. It's highly likely that his horrible defense will make him completely unplayable in the NBA.

[bwgood77]

I love Okoros size/strength and defensive awareness that's a combination that can be super valuable for a playoff team because you need that stopper against the elite guys. I think he has some handle too. It all that damn shot, but I guess is he could shoot he'd be a lock for top 3. If he develops it to even an average level he'll be a hell of a player.

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There are things to like about Okoro, and I love great defenders but I also love people who are great at specific things. I see in another post you mention you would take a number of guys projected well out of the top 10 above Toppin. Reading that and then this post I assume you'd take Okoro WELL ahead of Toppin. And perhaps Okoro becomes a stud and Toppin is a bust, but to me, it kind of seems like an Amare Stoudemire with a 3 comparison with Andre Roberson. Both phenomenal at their strengths but one very weak on defense and one very weak on offense.

Obviously neither player will likely be as good as those I mentioned at their strengths, but Obi should be better than Amare at 3 pt shooting and passing.

You know I love defensive guys too and we are usually on the same page on a lot of things like I loved Isaac (wanted him in that draft), JJJ, and Bridges. I also love shooting and ball movement.

The way Toppin took college by storm this year when he wasn't on the radar like Trae Young and Ja Morant was crazy.

I was re-reading earlier posts in this thread and the poster who made posts 36 and 38 (I believe) who posted VERY early about him after watching a few games, was very astute...interesting Toppin cleaned up on player of the year awards.

It will be interesting to see if Toppin is a valuable player on a team in the rotation or someone who really doesn't amount to much..the latter would surprise me quite a bit.

I'm probably too harsh on Toppin. I think it's partly as a bucks fan I have Jabari Parker PTSD, a PF who just couldn't guard or move his damn feet. But it's really more an Ayton thing, I really want him to be a cornerstone guy and I just truly believe the best way to play around him is small and switchy.

If both Okoro and Toppin were sitting there I honestly don't know who I'd prefer because I don't really love either for this team. Maybe I'd lean Okoro because shooting definitely can be learned but of course it's far from a given.

My other dudes are just kind of guys who fall in the types I tend to get smitten with. Williams is that long athletic can do a bunch of things type that I always love. I also just kind of like this guard class even though I'm sure like half bust. Part of this is just seeing what even Cam **** Payne brought to this squad in the bubble, his pace and shooting added so much. If I actually thought he could do that long term I wouldn't want a guard but realistically he probably regresses so I'd love to find someone to be that guy.

Vassell is another guy I just love and even though he's a little redundant I would love that pick, I think he's going to be a really valuable player. Haliburton too.

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I really like Vassell and Haliburton too. I'd be very happy with either.

[Ghost of Kleine]

This scouting report just screams of a James Jones & Monty type player

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So what do you see his comparison/ projection as man? I've seen varying reports with a projection of a low end starter to bench/ fringe rotation player. Not a huge variance I know. Also he's recieved comps like JR Smith and Malik Beasley. The real question is Do we really want to add another "Scrubb" to the team, When we've worked so hard to get rid of all the scrubs that were previously on this team over the years? lol.