Better player:2020 LeBron vs 1998 Jordan

[Jiminy Glick]

If we put 2020 LeBron in 1998 it would be more clear Jordan is better. LeBron is playing in a flag basketball league. Also Jordan wasn't running the Bull's offense in 1998, they played the triangle offense, so yeah LeBron has more assists and his stats in terms of assists look better. LeBron is also the better rebounder but Jordan is the better player. Make no mistake though, Jordan is the better passer.

Watch on YouTube

I'm trying to take you guys seriously but it's so damn hard

If you don't think the current NBA is flag basketball as in extremely soft with hardly any defense because a foul will get called then I am not sure what to tell you. Go watch basketball from the early 1990's if you want to see physicality.

[Jiminy Glick]

If we put 2020 LeBron in 1998 it would be more clear Jordan is better. LeBron is playing in a flag basketball league. Also Jordan wasn't running the Bull's offense in 1998, they played the triangle offense, so yeah LeBron has more assists and his stats in terms of assists look better. LeBron is also the better rebounder but Jordan is the better player. Make no mistake though, Jordan is the better passer.

Watch on YouTube

I mean cool but youre like blatantly wrong lol. Why would you go about how soft fouls are to go against the guy who the refs have lately been helping the least?

Wrong about what?

[DatAsh]

Don't really see the argument for Jordan here. 98 Jordan was a better defender than 19 Lebron, but not 20 Lebron, even in the regular season(imo).

[Odinn21]

I think 1998 Jordan was closer than he gets credit for in here.
Pippen missed almost half of the season and Rodman was not at his best. Still a 62W season with best SRS and 3rd best NRtg. I find 1998 Jordan's motor better. I'd also say he carried his team harder.
In 1998 playoffs, Jordan posted a considerably higher obpm than James posted in 2020 playoffs so far. (8.0 to 6.8)
Also it's worth noting that the Pacer and the Jazz in 1998 playoffs are by far the most competitive teams both faced / facing.

I also think 2020 James is better, but just slightly. You can feel and see that he has more in him while Jordan had to perform on the edge.

This should be a lot closer than 84%-16% (31-6). I don't think that the gap is that clear.

[HeartBreakKid]

If we put 2020 LeBron in 1998 it would be more clear Jordan is better. LeBron is playing in a flag basketball league. Also Jordan wasn't running the Bull's offense in 1998, they played the triangle offense, so yeah LeBron has more assists and his stats in terms of assists look better. LeBron is also the better rebounder but Jordan is the better player. Make no mistake though, Jordan is the better passer.

Watch on YouTube

I'm trying to take you guys seriously but it's so damn hard

If you don't think the current NBA is flag basketball as in extremely soft with hardly any defense because a foul will get called then I am not sure what to tell you. Go watch basketball from the early 1990's if you want to see physicality.

1998 is not the early 90s.

LBJ is a better passer than Jordan, that has nothing to do with the triangle offense or their advance age. James has been a natural passer since highschool. Jordan had to learn how to pass within an offense. Don't know why people keep bringing up APG, if their APGs were the same James would still be the better playmaker and floor general as it is his more natural position.

Since we are on the topic of APG, Kind of ridiculous to assume the guy who lead the league in assist only did it because he's not playing in a triangle or that this player must be involved in an gimmick offense, he runs the point because he is a great point guard.

There's no evidence or rational to think Jordan is the better passer, saying "his passing was suppressed" isn't a reason either. We've seen Jordan when his usage was incredibly high and his minutes and he still topped out at 8 APG, 3.6 turnovers on a decently rated offense and he was not playing in the triangle offense.

On top of that, LBJ not only does LBJ lead the league in APG and total assist he is the only player who has double digit assist. Whether today's defenses are softer than not, one thing is for sure APG during Jordan's time was higher than today. Michael Jordan was 10th in the APG rankings with 8 APG per game in 1989 - there were 3 guys who were not only above 10 APG per game, but were WAY above it (KJ with 12 APG, Magic with 13, Stockton with 13.5). Terry Porter and Nate McMillin have over 9 APG. Only four players (including LBJ) averaged more than 8 assist this season.

The guy with the 2nd highest APG in the 2020 season is Trae Young with 9.3 APG - Trae Young's APG would have him ranked 5th or 6th in 1989. So let's give credit where credit is due, LBJ is a really damn great passer - Jordan was a good passer, but there is nothing that suggest he was better than James. James passing stats are flat out better, even when contextualized. Trae Young is not an NBA gimmick, he was an amazing passer in the NCAA as well - and he still averages 1 full APG less than James. This doesn't mean that James is automatically a better passer than Young, but it damages the idea that James "just gets high APG because he has the ball" - he gets high APG because he has incredible vision and passing.

So Jordan actually played in a time when having very high APG was more common - and this was true before he was put in the triangle offense. So there isn't really an excuse for why his APG is lower than James.

I legitimately do not get why you think LBJ is not a great passer other than it possibly making Jordan look bad. It's literally one of the reasons why he was drafted at #1. James has been in his fair share of elite offenses also so it's certainly not "stat padding" (I never get why people have winners as stat padders, makes no sense...stat padding means no impact).

[Firebird1]

I'm trying to take you guys seriously but it's so damn hard

If you don't think the current NBA is flag basketball as in extremely soft with hardly any defense because a foul will get called then I am not sure what to tell you. Go watch basketball from the early 1990's if you want to see physicality.

1998 is not the early 90s.

LBJ is a better passer than Jordan, that has nothing to do with the triangle offense or their advance age. James has been a natural passer since highschool. Jordan had to learn how to pass within an offense. Don't know why people keep bringing up APG, if their APGs were the same James would still be the better playmaker and floor general as it is his more natural position.

Since we are on the topic of APG, Kind of ridiculous to assume the guy who lead the league in assist only did it because he's not playing in a triangle or a gimmick offense, he runs the point because he is a great point guard.

There's no evidence or rational to think Jordan is the better passer, saying "his passing was suppressed" isn't a reason either. We've seen Jordan when his usage was incredibly high and his minutes and he still topped out at 8 APG, 3.6 turnovers on a decently rated offense and he was not playing in the triangle offense.

On top of that, LBJ not only does LBJ lead the league in APG and total assist he is the only player who has double digit assist. Whether today's defenses are softer than not, one thing is for sure APG during Jordan's time was higher than today. Michael Jordan was 10th in the APG rankings with 8 APG per game in 1989 - there were 3 guys who were not only above 10 APG per game, but were WAY above it (KJ with 12 APG, Magic with 13, Stockton with 13.5). Terry Porter and Nate McMillin have over 9 APG. Only four players (including LBJ) averaged more than 8 assist this season.

The guy with the 2nd highest APG in the 2020 season is Trae Young with 9.3 APG - Trae Young's APG would have him ranked 5th or 6th in 1989. So let's give credit where credit is due, LBJ is a really damn great passer - Jordan was a good passer, but there is nothing that suggest he was better than James. James passing stats are flat out better, even when contextualized. Trae Young is not an NBA gimmick, he was an amazing passer in the NCAA as well - and he still averages 1 full APG less than James. This doesn't mean that James is automatically a better passer than Young, but it damages the idea that James "just gets high APG because he has the ball" - he gets high APG because he has incredible vision and passing.

So Jordan actually played in a time when having very high APG was more common - and this was true before he was put in the triangle offense. So there isn't really an excuse for why his APG is lower than James.

I legitimately do not get why you think LBJ is not a great passer other than it possibly making Jordan look bad. It's literally one of the reasons why he was drafted at #1. James has been in his fair share of elite offenses also so it's certainly not "stat padding" (I never get why people have winners as stat padders, makes no sense...stat padding means no impact).

Great post!

[thebigbird]

1998 Jordan averaged 32 ppg on 25 fgs per game in the playoffs. 54.5% TS. He averaged 5.1 rpg and 3.5 apg.

2020 LeBron is averaging 27 ppg on 18 fgs per game. 63.7% TS. He’s averaging 10.5 rpg and 8.9 apg.

The gap isn’t as big as the playoff numbers suggest, but I have LeBron here.

[Firebird1]

1998 Jordan averaged 32 ppg on 25 fgs per game in the playoffs. 54.5% TS. He averaged 5.1 rpg and 3.5 apg.

2020 LeBron is averaging 27 ppg on 18 fgs per game. 63.7% TS. He’s averaging 10.5 rpg and 8.9 apg.

The gap isn’t as big as the playoff numbers suggest, but I have LeBron here.

I also have LeBron ahead comfortably too. Just imagine if LeBron didn't look to pass more and he decided to take more field goals and score more like Jordan did in 1998.

LeBron in the POs (2018) averaged 23.2 FGA per game and guess what? The man averaged 34 points!

Right now LeBron is averaging 17.8 FGA per game in the 2020 Playoffs. I have no doubt if LeBron were to take at least 20+ FGA, he would easily score 30+ points per game throughout the POs.

[freethedevil]

I don't really know what the argument for Jordan would be. Maybe you could argue he was a little better on defense, though that's questionable and offensively Lebron is just clearly better.

I don't think 1998 version of Jordan has much of a case defensively over 2020 James, who sometimes is overrated but still produces on that end on all-nba level and brings much more versatility than old MJ.

Im curiious why you think 2020 bron is a better defender, the "hes better than davis" takes r a bit much but his playoff defense has been pretty insane so far

Whetehr he's a better defender isn't really relevant tbh. The fact he's had several games operating effectively as the lakers primary rim prtoector when davis has been extensively used on the perimiter speaks to a level of defense even peak MJ would do very well to replicate.

[freethedevil]

1998 Jordan averaged 32 ppg on 25 fgs per game in the playoffs. 54.5% TS. He averaged 5.1 rpg and 3.5 apg.

2020 LeBron is averaging 27 ppg on 18 fgs per game. 63.7% TS. He’s averaging 10.5 rpg and 8.9 apg.

The gap isn’t as big as the playoff numbers suggest, but I have LeBron here.

Nah its bigger, coz defense

[yoyoboy]

Man this comparison makes me realize just how much the adjustment to the BPM formula sucks. It was made pretty much because Westbrook broke the stat, but it's resulted in it becoming way less useful on the whole. I think it's way more biased towards volume scoring now. Just from a rough glance I'm struggling to see how this makes sense:

32.4 ppg / 3.5 apg / 1.5 spg / 2.1 topg / 54.5% TS (+2.1 rTS) = 8.0 OBPM
26.6 ppg / 8.9 apg / 1.3 spg / 4.1 topg / 63.7% TS (+7.2 rTS) = 6.8 OBPM

[LukaTheGOAT]

I'll drop some stats that everyone can read at their leisure, and let you guys decide.

2020 PS Lebron (so far):

Offensive Load of 54.8

9.7 BPM (6.8 OBPM/2.9 DBPM)
.263 WS/48
29.6 PER

6.48 PIPM (4.18 OPIPM/2.29 DBPM)- For some reason this rounds up to 6.48 on the site

8.3-Backpicks BPM



1998 PS Jordan

Offensive Load of 48.2

9 BPM (8 OBPM/1 DBPM)
.265 WS/48
28.1 PER

4.61 PIPM (4.29 OPIPM/0.32 DPIPM)- For some reason this rounds down 4.61 on the site, so I guess these are rounded estimates.

6.1 Backpicks BPM

I would go Lebron because honestly, I am a big fan of his overall offensive efficiency in his role, mixed with all-time level passing. I think he is creating so many opportunities for teammates, that are hard to quantify. The amount of open 3s his teammates are getting is absurd. Based off offensive load, he's required to generate more of LA's offense for them to play at the level they have been playing at.

Also, I just straight up thing Lebron's defense has been better. He has had to guard some big names down the stretch, particularly Jamal Murray in the last round; but also I was always higher on Lebron's defense when he played with intensity. I think MJ typically had the higher motor, and had more defensive consistency throughout the years. But Lebron has been locked in this year, and his versatility and smart help rotations I think make him more impactful than Jordan on that end.

[Jiminy Glick]

I'm trying to take you guys seriously but it's so damn hard

If you don't think the current NBA is flag basketball as in extremely soft with hardly any defense because a foul will get called then I am not sure what to tell you. Go watch basketball from the early 1990's if you want to see physicality.

1998 is not the early 90s.

LBJ is a better passer than Jordan, that has nothing to do with the triangle offense or their advance age. James has been a natural passer since highschool. Jordan had to learn how to pass within an offense. Don't know why people keep bringing up APG, if their APGs were the same James would still be the better playmaker and floor general as it is his more natural position.

Since we are on the topic of APG, Kind of ridiculous to assume the guy who lead the league in assist only did it because he's not playing in a triangle or that this player must be involved in an gimmick offense, he runs the point because he is a great point guard.

There's no evidence or rational to think Jordan is the better passer, saying "his passing was suppressed" isn't a reason either. We've seen Jordan when his usage was incredibly high and his minutes and he still topped out at 8 APG, 3.6 turnovers on a decently rated offense and he was not playing in the triangle offense.

On top of that, LBJ not only does LBJ lead the league in APG and total assist he is the only player who has double digit assist. Whether today's defenses are softer than not, one thing is for sure APG during Jordan's time was higher than today. Michael Jordan was 10th in the APG rankings with 8 APG per game in 1989 - there were 3 guys who were not only above 10 APG per game, but were WAY above it (KJ with 12 APG, Magic with 13, Stockton with 13.5). Terry Porter and Nate McMillin have over 9 APG. Only four players (including LBJ) averaged more than 8 assist this season.

The guy with the 2nd highest APG in the 2020 season is Trae Young with 9.3 APG - Trae Young's APG would have him ranked 5th or 6th in 1989. So let's give credit where credit is due, LBJ is a really damn great passer - Jordan was a good passer, but there is nothing that suggest he was better than James. James passing stats are flat out better, even when contextualized. Trae Young is not an NBA gimmick, he was an amazing passer in the NCAA as well - and he still averages 1 full APG less than James. This doesn't mean that James is automatically a better passer than Young, but it damages the idea that James "just gets high APG because he has the ball" - he gets high APG because he has incredible vision and passing.

So Jordan actually played in a time when having very high APG was more common - and this was true before he was put in the triangle offense. So there isn't really an excuse for why his APG is lower than James.

I legitimately do not get why you think LBJ is not a great passer other than it possibly making Jordan look bad. It's literally one of the reasons why he was drafted at #1. James has been in his fair share of elite offenses also so it's certainly not "stat padding" (I never get why people have winners as stat padders, makes no sense...stat padding means no impact).

I know I am just saying 2020 is not real basketball, early 1990's is an example of what real basketball is, so go watch that if you want to see what it looks like and you will realize how soft the current league is. Hand-checking got phased out in 1995. However 1998 was still way more physical than now. No LeBron is not the better passer. Penny and Bird were also better passers as well. Westbrook had multiple 10 assist seasons, so is he a better passer than LeBron? The answer is no.

Asists per game were not higher in 1998.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

There is more possessions and scoring now.

[Odinn21]

Man this comparison makes me realize just how much the adjustment to the BPM formula sucks. It was made pretty much because Westbrook broke the stat, but it's resulted in it becoming way less useful on the whole. I think it's way more biased towards volume scoring now. Just from a rough glance I'm struggling to see how this makes sense:

32.4 ppg / 3.5 apg / 1.5 spg / 2.1 topg / 54.5% TS (+2.1 rTS) = 8.0 OBPM
26.6 ppg / 8.9 apg / 1.3 spg / 4.1 topg / 63.7% TS (+7.2 rTS) = 6.8 OBPM

That's like that because BPM is calculated from team total rates.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm2.html
There's a calculation example on Google Sheets on there.

I agree that they moved too much towards volume scoring to avoid making Westbrook look like the goat. But the main reason BPM is like that is team total rates. It accounts for how much space a player takes up on his team.

[MyUniBroDavis]

1998 Jordan averaged 32 ppg on 25 fgs per game in the playoffs. 54.5% TS. He averaged 5.1 rpg and 3.5 apg.

2020 LeBron is averaging 27 ppg on 18 fgs per game. 63.7% TS. He’s averaging 10.5 rpg and 8.9 apg.

The gap isn’t as big as the playoff numbers suggest, but I have LeBron here.

Nah its bigger, coz defense

I mean i dont understand how 32/5.1/3.5 on decent effeciency is better than 27/10.5/8.9 on top effdciency, esp when the scoring gap is what it us 90% because of the lakers dominance, since he plays less minutes

[freethedevil]

Man this comparison makes me realize just how much the adjustment to the BPM formula sucks. It was made pretty much because Westbrook broke the stat, but it's resulted in it becoming way less useful on the whole. I think it's way more biased towards volume scoring now. Just from a rough glance I'm struggling to see how this makes sense:

32.4 ppg / 3.5 apg / 1.5 spg / 2.1 topg / 54.5% TS (+2.1 rTS) = 8.0 OBPM
26.6 ppg / 8.9 apg / 1.3 spg / 4.1 topg / 63.7% TS (+7.2 rTS) = 6.8 OBPM

That's like that because BPM is calculated from team total rates.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm2.html
There's a calculation example on Google Sheets on there.

I agree that they moved too much towards volume scoring to avoid making Westbrook look like the goat. But the main reason BPM is like is team total rates. It accounts for how much space a player takes up on his team.

People just can't accept how good westbrook was at his best. Dude had more wins added and higher plus minus metrics than durant both in the rs and the playoffs. Westbrook before his 2017 catch and shoot outplayed peak kd in the playoffs.

Joining a 73 win team will do wonders for ya legacy

[O_6]

Man this comparison makes me realize just how much the adjustment to the BPM formula sucks. It was made pretty much because Westbrook broke the stat, but it's resulted in it becoming way less useful on the whole. I think it's way more biased towards volume scoring now. Just from a rough glance I'm struggling to see how this makes sense:

32.4 ppg / 3.5 apg / 1.5 spg / 2.1 topg / 54.5% TS (+2.1 rTS) = 8.0 OBPM
26.6 ppg / 8.9 apg / 1.3 spg / 4.1 topg / 63.7% TS (+7.2 rTS) = 6.8 OBPM

I think one thing people are not understanding is the massive difference in offensive environment and style of play from '98 and '20.

ORtg in the 3pt era
2020: 110.6 ORtg (1st out of 41 seasons)
1998: 105.0 ORtg (33rd out of 41 seasons)

The 3pt revolution and the superior understanding within team's FO/coaching staff of what offensive styles help maximize the team more has just made today's game very different visually and statistically from just 22 years ago. That's why I think we need to be careful when we compare raw stats like MJ's raw PPG to LeBron's raw PPG on better relative efficiency. At the very least, we should try to better contextualize relative scoring volume.

Playoff Scoring
1998 CHI: 93.1 PPG ---- Jordan (32.4 PPG) --- 34.8% of PTS (+2.1 rTS)
2020 LAL: 114.1 PPG -- LeBron (26.6 PPG) --- 23.3% of PTS (+7.2 rTS)

So LeBron is certainly still the more efficient scorer even relative to era, but there is a pretty massive difference in scoring volume and responsibility between the two. Something that raw PPG doesn't really capture. Also the massive difference in turnover economy kind of makes up for the shooting efficiency edge to a degree.

The reason it's hard to compare 2020 LeBron and 1998 Jordan is because of how different their roles were. MJ was asked to have an absolutely enormous scoring load in the playoffs, whereas LeBron has been asked to be more of a facilitator than ever before.

Ultimately, the reason MJ is still my GOAT over LeBron (who's #2 for me now) is because of his more diverse scoring and easier ability to scale up his scoring to whatever the team needed. LeBron in '20 has been a slightly better defender than '98 MJ and clearly a better passer. But he hasn't shown that GOAT tier scoring he showed in the '17 and '18 playoff runs. He probably still has it in him but hasn't truly shown it besides brief moments and probably won't have to this year. But '98 MJ was showing it all the time in the playoffs and his team depended on it, and he did this while still being a very good perimeter defender and good passer (the Triangle really hurts his APG totals here).

'17 LeBron > '97 MJ
'18 LeBron > '98 MJ
'20 LeBron vs. '98 MJ? Toss Up

I might actually still choose '20 LeBron depending on how he closes this series but it is much closer than this poll suggests imo. '98 MJ was still an absolute monster and has a clear argument based around his scoring volume.

[magicman1978]

You have to view the context of Jordan's offensive production against the level of offensive support he had. Jordan accounted for 35% of his team's scoring and had a +14.5 ortg - the Bulls that year were old and injured. They were elite offensively with him on the court and with him off, they were league worst.

Where LeBron has the advantage in this comparison is more on defense than offense.

[yoyoboy]

Man this comparison makes me realize just how much the adjustment to the BPM formula sucks. It was made pretty much because Westbrook broke the stat, but it's resulted in it becoming way less useful on the whole. I think it's way more biased towards volume scoring now. Just from a rough glance I'm struggling to see how this makes sense:

32.4 ppg / 3.5 apg / 1.5 spg / 2.1 topg / 54.5% TS (+2.1 rTS) = 8.0 OBPM
26.6 ppg / 8.9 apg / 1.3 spg / 4.1 topg / 63.7% TS (+7.2 rTS) = 6.8 OBPM

I think one thing people are not understanding is the massive difference in offensive environment and style of play from '98 and '20.

ORtg in the 3pt era
2020: 110.6 ORtg (1st out of 41 seasons)
1998: 105.0 ORtg (33rd out of 41 seasons)

The 3pt revolution and the superior understanding within team's FO/coaching staff of what offensive styles help maximize the team more has just made today's game very different visually and statistically from just 22 years ago. That's why I think we need to be careful when we compare raw stats like MJ's raw PPG to LeBron's raw PPG on better relative efficiency. At the very least, we should try to better contextualize relative scoring volume.

Playoff Scoring
1998 CHI: 93.1 PPG ---- Jordan (32.4 PPG) --- 34.8% of PTS (+2.1 rTS)
2020 LAL: 114.1 PPG -- LeBron (26.6 PPG) --- 23.3% of PTS (+7.2 rTS)

So LeBron is certainly still the more efficient scorer even relative to era, but there is a pretty massive difference in scoring volume and responsibility between the two. Something that raw PPG doesn't really capture. Also the massive difference in turnover economy kind of makes up for the shooting efficiency edge to a degree.

The reason it's hard to compare 2020 LeBron and 1998 Jordan is because of how different their roles were. MJ was asked to have an absolutely enormous scoring load in the playoffs, whereas LeBron has been asked to be more of a facilitator than ever before.

Ultimately, the reason MJ is still my GOAT over LeBron (who's #2 for me now) is because of his more diverse scoring and easier ability to scale up his scoring to whatever the team needed. LeBron in '20 has been a slightly better defender than '98 MJ and clearly a better passer. But he hasn't shown that GOAT tier scoring he showed in the '17 and '18 playoff runs. He probably still has it in him but hasn't truly shown it besides brief moments and probably won't have to this year. But '98 MJ was showing it all the time in the playoffs and his team depended on it, and he did this while still being a very good perimeter defender and good passer (the Triangle really hurts his APG totals here).

'17 LeBron > '97 MJ
'18 LeBron > '98 MJ
'20 LeBron vs. '98 MJ? Toss Up

I might actually still choose '20 LeBron depending on how he closes this series but it is much closer than this poll suggests imo. '98 MJ was still an absolute monster and has a clear argument based around his scoring volume.

Sure, Michael definitely has a sizable edge in volume scoring but you can’t ignore that on the whole LeBron probably has an even bigger edge in creation due to the fact that he’s the de facto PG of the team. Not only is his raw assist volume 2.6 times higher but his AST/TO ratio is better too, which is impressive for someone making as many interior passes as LeBron is this season.

Also, in calculating the portion of the team’s total scoring you’re ignoring that LeBron is only playing 35 mpg this postseason. Jordan played over half a quarter a game more, and I don’t think it’s fair to penalize LeBron in that aspect just because the Lakers are destroying teams especially with LeBron playing (+12.7) and he doesn’t need to play as many minutes as he did with the Cavs who couldn’t stay afloat without him.

I just think the guys behind BPM made a bad choice to correct an outlier and it resulted in a much less useful stat. From 2013-17 Durant now actually has a higher regular season BPM (9.1) than LeBron (8.9), with higher marks in 4 of the 5 seasons. Before the change it wasn’t close and BPM defined aligned much more closely with the “impact” stats like RAPM. The stat probably could’ve been reworked in some way because a lot of bugs for example were being penalized too harshly for not having great assists to turnover numbers and obviously there was the rebounds-assists interaction problem once you got to higher numbers, but I think giving way more weight to volume scoring is going backwards for a stat that’s supposed to distance itself from the PERs if the world and provide a better picture of all around impact.

[limbo]

I wonder if the same people that are quick to penalize LeBron for playing in an 'offensively more friendly environment' are also willing to give LeBron extra credit defensively for playing in an 'offensively more friendly environment'...

See, that's the beauty of basketball, it's a game of balance. Easier to score = harder to defend. Easier to defend = harder to score

If it's easier to score now and teams on average are producing higher ORTG across the board, that would logically mean that stopping teams from scoring has become much harder than it used to be. Therefore, LeBron should be getting extra credit for being one of two key cogs in a Top 3 defense in 2020...Which is not the same as being a key cog on defense in 1998, as i've learned in this thread. Because it was much harder to score in 1998, making it easier to defend for guys like MJ and the Bulls teams;). Makes sense to me.

Also, i find it amusing how Magic never gets discredited on the basis of playing in an 'offensively more friendly environment' where teams were putting up 134 points per game... Nope. Magic is fine there. He's the GOAT offensively regardless.

How about Shaq? As far as i can tell, i am the only one who discredits Shaq for playing in a 'defensively more friendly environment' in the early 00's when discussing his peak. Only me. Everyone else doesn't seem bothered by it, but are extremely bothered by these current stars putting up the offensive impact they are now.

Interesting, isn't it?