limbo wrote:Here goes 70sFan blowing everything out of proportion again...
It's not me who is saying this:
You know that spin-cycle layup LeBron abuses now. That wasn't in his bag 5 years ago. He would've just bee line it to the rim and hope he doesn't get a charge or gets blocked. Now with the the spin cycle, he just slowly gets the defender leaning one way, and uses his massive body to shield him off. Easy bucket.
..about spin move that was James signature move for over a decade:
This is blowing something out of proportion. I think that a lot of people look at LeBron now and think "wow, how skilled he became", but they don't realize that he was extremely skilled and refined player for over a decade. You can argue that late 2000s LeBron lacked some polish, but by 2013 he had all the moves he needed.
Outside a more consistent long range shooting stroke, 13/14 LeBron is not more skilled than he is now... That doesn't mean 13/14 was 'Russell Westbrook' in terms of skill or whatever that was suppose to mean...
Because you're acting like the difference is huge, when in reality the difference is very small and in nuances.
No one is acting like the skill gap is huge, but it's definitely noticeable in certain areas and makes logical sense as well.
Well, your previous post basically said that James became much more skilled player than in Miami years, so yes someone acted like that.
Tell me how do you rationalize that 2013 LeBron would be 'more skilled' than now? What, did he not pick up anything in 7 years of going to the Finals and playing GOAT level teams? Did he got dumber on defense? Did his eyes got worse in 5 years so his vision became worse?
The only skill attribute that you could argue is worse now than it was in 2013 is his shooting, because LeBron is known as a guy that constantly tinkers his form on top of being a very selective/streaky shooter. This enables a larger variance in how well he's able to shoot. And better/more consistent shooting is definitely not a negligible advantage. But as far as reading and reacting he's gotten more skilled in that area because he's simply smarter and has picked up more tools to add in his collection in the last 7 years.
Yes, I'd say that James was better shooter in 2013 and 2014, but it's not only about efficiency. He was much more comfortable off the dribble, he had smoother form and was better from the catch (not only with threes, but also after off-ball movement). His footwork isn't necessarily worse, but it's also more mechanical. I also like his off-ball movement much more in Miami, but it could be due to the role differences. I also think that James used his left hand far more.
I think that the biggest difference between 2013 and 2020 James is his passing - he became more versatile passer and he reads the game a bit better. Is it enough to call him more skilled, despite being worse shooter? I don't know, but the gap is very small in either way.
The other differences are just forced by lesser physical capabilites - it's not like 2014 James couldn't break down defense in methodological way, he was always smart and crafty player (at least after 2011). So much is taken from James struggling in the 2013 finals, but in the end he destroyed us in the last two games. I don't think James ever played such a good defensive team again (yes, inlcuding Warriors who didn't have size to contain James). James operates now with far better spacing (the same in 2nd Cavs career) and he usually faces smaller frontcourts - that has to be taken into account when we compare his productivity in 2013 and in 2020.
And yes, MJ was the same in a way. Except i think MJ's athletic decline was more instrumental to his impact than LeBron's is. MJ relied on his GOAT level explosiveness far more. He did bulk up during 1996-1998 to give him more bullying power, but he's not a 6'8, 250 pound monster that sleeps in a cryogenic chamber like LeBron. Jordan went to smoke a cigars and gamble before and after he was playing... LeBron actually puts in the time to make sure his body is operating at the best possible level it can.
Jordan was more skilled and stronger in 1996-1998. But the lost of athleticism/explosiveness had a bigger impact on his overall output. That's why the gap between 1991 MJ and 1998 MJ is bigger than the gap between 2013 LeBron and 2020 LeBron.
So what exactly did Jordan do better in 1998 than in 1993? He wasn't a better shooter at this point, he didn't pass better either. Maybe he was slightly more refined in the post, but I'm not sure.
