Why has Isaac Okoro risen in this draft?

[bwgood77]

I haven't really studied him, but with HS recruiting rankings he ranked about 36-40 in his class coming into college last year. His numbers don't look particularly impressive.

I haven't watched him, so of course missing the eye test which is important, and I understand he is apparently an elite wing defender but even then his steal rate isn't terribly impressive and his rebounding looks subpar. Of course his shooting is bad, and is even a poor free throw shooter.

What is the big appeal with him? I know it's not the best class but it's hard for me to see the appeal, especially over someone like Vassell. Age?

[BlazersBroncos]

Well, first off this draft sucks at the top.

But as for his appeal, he is 6'6 225lb man child who got to the line against good competition at a great rate. He is also a surprisingly good passer.

He has nice defensive tools, but not elite IMO. His wingspan reportedly is only 6'8, which is vanilla as hell. He moves his feet really well for his size and his bulk gives him a chance to be that Jae Crowder type defender (Who actually is my NBA comparison for him) who can match up the bulky, athletic lead forwards who dominate this league right now (Tatum, LBJ, PG, Kawai, Luka, etc).

But, end of the day, I dont see a franchise guy or a 'top-3 option' type with him at all. I think his ceiling is Crowder in Boston, but potentially at age like 22 rather than 25. Thats a pretty nice player, certainly a archetype that is in huge demand around the league right now, and in this draft probably worth a pick in the 8-10 range, but a team looking for anything more than a great role player should be wary IMO.

Some think he could be a Leonard type who just develops like hell out of nowhere, but I wont make comparisons to such unique progression.

FWIW, of the teams in the top-10, I think he fits PHX really well. They have their top-2 already and can afford to add a potential Boston-era Crowder. They may want to add that 3rd banana, but its going to be hard at #10, if not impossible.

[bwgood77]

Well, first off this draft sucks at the top.

But as for his appeal, he is 6'6 225lb man child who got to the line against good competition at a great rate. He is also a surprisingly good passer.

He has nice defensive tools, but not elite IMO. His wingspan reportedly is only 6'8, which is vanilla as hell. He moves his feet really well for his size and his bulk gives him a chance to be that Jae Crowder type defender (Who actually is my NBA comparison for him) who can match up the bulky, athletic lead forwards who dominate this league right now (Tatum, LBJ, PG, Kawai, Luka, etc).

But, end of the day, I dont see a franchise guy or a 'top-3 option' type with him at all. I think his ceiling is Crowder in Boston, but potentially at age like 22 rather than 25. Thats a pretty nice player, certainly a archetype that is in huge demand around the league right now, and in this draft probably worth a pick in the 8-10 range, but a team looking for anything more than a great role player should be wary IMO.

Some think he could be a Leonard type who just develops like hell out of nowhere, but I wont make comparisons to such unique progression.

FWIW, of the teams in the top-10, I think he fits PHX really well. They have their top-2 already and can afford to add a potential Boston-era Crowder. They may want to add that 3rd banana, but its going to be hard at #10, if not impossible.

Do you think he's a better defender than Bridges, who has a 7 ft wingspan and was one of the better wing defenders in the league this year?

I don't think James Jones would take someone who can't shoot.

Kawhi had the crazy wingspan though, and was also an elite rebounder and had a lot higher steal rate. Also a better FT shooter.

[Ruzious]

Well, first off this draft sucks at the top.

But as for his appeal, he is 6'6 225lb man child who got to the line against good competition at a great rate. He is also a surprisingly good passer.

He has nice defensive tools, but not elite IMO. His wingspan reportedly is only 6'8, which is vanilla as hell. He moves his feet really well for his size and his bulk gives him a chance to be that Jae Crowder type defender (Who actually is my NBA comparison for him) who can match up the bulky, athletic lead forwards who dominate this league right now (Tatum, LBJ, PG, Kawai, Luka, etc).

But, end of the day, I dont see a franchise guy or a 'top-3 option' type with him at all. I think his ceiling is Crowder in Boston, but potentially at age like 22 rather than 25. Thats a pretty nice player, certainly a archetype that is in huge demand around the league right now, and in this draft probably worth a pick in the 8-10 range, but a team looking for anything more than a great role player should be wary IMO.

Some think he could be a Leonard type who just develops like hell out of nowhere, but I wont make comparisons to such unique progression.

FWIW, of the teams in the top-10, I think he fits PHX really well. They have their top-2 already and can afford to add a potential Boston-era Crowder. They may want to add that 3rd banana, but its going to be hard at #10, if not impossible.

Good stuff. I'd compare him to Jimmy Butler at the same stage. Butler had the same issues coming out of Marquette and also had that 6'8 length. They both have an intense physical makeup. But it would be surprising if he develops as well as Butler did - considering how dramatically better Butler became. In that respect, Crowder would be a more likely outcome, while Butler would be his ceiling.

[bwgood77]

Well, first off this draft sucks at the top.

But as for his appeal, he is 6'6 225lb man child who got to the line against good competition at a great rate. He is also a surprisingly good passer.

He has nice defensive tools, but not elite IMO. His wingspan reportedly is only 6'8, which is vanilla as hell. He moves his feet really well for his size and his bulk gives him a chance to be that Jae Crowder type defender (Who actually is my NBA comparison for him) who can match up the bulky, athletic lead forwards who dominate this league right now (Tatum, LBJ, PG, Kawai, Luka, etc).

But, end of the day, I dont see a franchise guy or a 'top-3 option' type with him at all. I think his ceiling is Crowder in Boston, but potentially at age like 22 rather than 25. Thats a pretty nice player, certainly a archetype that is in huge demand around the league right now, and in this draft probably worth a pick in the 8-10 range, but a team looking for anything more than a great role player should be wary IMO.

Some think he could be a Leonard type who just develops like hell out of nowhere, but I wont make comparisons to such unique progression.

FWIW, of the teams in the top-10, I think he fits PHX really well. They have their top-2 already and can afford to add a potential Boston-era Crowder. They may want to add that 3rd banana, but its going to be hard at #10, if not impossible.

Good stuff. I'd compare him to Jimmy Butler at the same stage. Butler had the same issues coming out of Marquette and also had that 6'8 length. They both have an intense physical makeup. But it would be surprising if he develops as well as Butler did - considering how dramatically better Butler became. In that respect, Crowder would be a more likely outcome, while Butler would be his ceiling.

Butler seems like a good high end example...having the short wingspan but still being a really good defender. He was a better shooter in college though and did have a lot higher steal rate as well.

Those sound like decent comps for high end though in Butler and Crowder.

[Stillwater]

the stats dont tell the story of how well he impacts the game on both sides of the ball.
the spacing in the NBA absolutely opens up his ability to attack the rim off the dribble immensely.
I think he might have gotten a little high on mocks due to less options with similar upside

[King Ken]

the stats dont tell the story of how well he impacts the game on both sides of the ball.
the spacing in the NBA absolutely opens up his ability to attack the rim off the dribble immensely.
I think he might have gotten a little high on mocks due to less options with similar upside

Facts. He deserves to be high considering this draft class

[bwgood77]

the stats dont tell the story of how well he impacts the game on both sides of the ball.
the spacing in the NBA absolutely opens up his ability to attack the rim off the dribble immensely.
I think he might have gotten a little high on mocks due to less options with similar upside

Facts. He deserves to be high considering this draft class

You still need to shoot if you are a wing. In this day and age you pretty much need to shoot at any position but it's easier to get by without it if you are an elite defensive big and your team has shooters.

I'd be more confident if he was a good or at least a pretty good FT shooter. Not sure why he should go ahead of Vassell, but I'll be happy if he goes in the top 9.

[DevinVassell]

Okoro couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

[King Ken]

the stats dont tell the story of how well he impacts the game on both sides of the ball.
the spacing in the NBA absolutely opens up his ability to attack the rim off the dribble immensely.
I think he might have gotten a little high on mocks due to less options with similar upside

Facts. He deserves to be high considering this draft class

You still need to shoot if you are a wing. In this day and age you pretty much need to shoot at any position but it's easier to get by without it if you are an elite defensive big and your team has shooters.

I'd be more confident if he was a good or at least a pretty good FT shooter. Not sure why he should go ahead of Vassell, but I'll be happy if he goes in the top 9.

He should definitely go over Vassell. That's not even worth a serious discussion if you have digged deep into both prospects.

His shooting percentages are on par with Jaylen Brown and he's an excellent half court player. He's a no brainer to me

[nolang1]

I haven't really studied him, but with HS recruiting rankings he ranked about 36-40 in his class coming into college last year. His numbers don't look particularly impressive.

I haven't watched him, so of course missing the eye test which is important, and I understand he is apparently an elite wing defender but even then his steal rate isn't terribly impressive and his rebounding looks subpar. Of course his shooting is bad, and is even a poor free throw shooter.

What is the big appeal with him? I know it's not the best class but it's hard for me to see the appeal, especially over someone like Vassell. Age?

He was just super underrated as a high school recruit due to being a defense-first player - his high school team was the undefeated national champions his senior year and he was a little overshadowed by Sharife Cooper (incoming freshman at Auburn) who was the leading scorer. Plenty of people had him as a potential lottery pick going into the season, and to me his stock is about the same or maybe a little lower than it was going into the year.

[bwgood77]

Facts. He deserves to be high considering this draft class

You still need to shoot if you are a wing. In this day and age you pretty much need to shoot at any position but it's easier to get by without it if you are an elite defensive big and your team has shooters.

I'd be more confident if he was a good or at least a pretty good FT shooter. Not sure why he should go ahead of Vassell, but I'll be happy if he goes in the top 9.

He should definitely go over Vassell. That's not even worth a serious discussion if you have digged deep into both prospects.

His shooting percentages are on par with Jaylen Brown and he's an excellent half court player. He's a no brainer to me

I agree it's not worth a serious discussion, but because Vassell blows him away if you dig into the #s, unless you are looking for an ol school isolation player who can also post up ok, or a guy that gets to the rim, but of course no one should be drafting Okoro for his offense anyway...and that stuff isn't as important in today's NBA game anyway unless you're primary ball handler.

Lets compare:




Vassell has the edge, sometimes a big one, in every raw stat catagory except assists, which is close. 3pt% 41% ton 28.6%. Okoro does get to the line twice as much, but only hits free throws at a 67% clip, which makes getting to the line not as impressive, but also doesn't bode well for improving his 3 pt shooting.

Vassell beats him in every one of their "advanced" stats, crushing him in ORTG, DRTG, OBPM, DPM, BPM.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=isaac-okoro--devin-vassell

So you must mean digging into tape, but that must be one hell of an eye test. Vassell is only 4 months younger too, so it's not like I am comparing some 4 year guy to a freshman. He's also got a longer wingspan.

[bwgood77]

I haven't really studied him, but with HS recruiting rankings he ranked about 36-40 in his class coming into college last year. His numbers don't look particularly impressive.

I haven't watched him, so of course missing the eye test which is important, and I understand he is apparently an elite wing defender but even then his steal rate isn't terribly impressive and his rebounding looks subpar. Of course his shooting is bad, and is even a poor free throw shooter.

What is the big appeal with him? I know it's not the best class but it's hard for me to see the appeal, especially over someone like Vassell. Age?

He was just super underrated as a high school recruit due to being a defense-first player - his high school team was the undefeated national champions his senior year and he was a little overshadowed by Sharife Cooper (incoming freshman at Auburn) who was the leading scorer. Plenty of people had him as a potential lottery pick going into the season, and to me his stock is about the same or maybe a little lower than it was going into the year.

I guess that makes sense then. He started out as a potential lottery prospect on some of the draft sites, and despite not playing well, kind of stayed there, kind of like a Cam Reddish (of course different strengths) but perhaps living a lot of off early rep despite not putting up very good numbers.

[King Ken]

You still need to shoot if you are a wing. In this day and age you pretty much need to shoot at any position but it's easier to get by without it if you are an elite defensive big and your team has shooters.

I'd be more confident if he was a good or at least a pretty good FT shooter. Not sure why he should go ahead of Vassell, but I'll be happy if he goes in the top 9.

He should definitely go over Vassell. That's not even worth a serious discussion if you have digged deep into both prospects.

His shooting percentages are on par with Jaylen Brown and he's an excellent half court player. He's a no brainer to me

I agree it's not worth a serious discussion, but because Vassell blows him away if you dig into the #s, unless you are looking for an ol school isolation player who can also post up ok, or a guy that gets to the rim, but of course no one should be drafting Okoro for his offense anyway...and that stuff isn't as important in today's NBA game anyway unless you're primary ball handler.

Lets compare:




Vassell has the edge, sometimes a big one, in every raw stat catagory except assists, which is close. 3pt% 41% ton 28.6%. Okoro does get to the line twice as much, but only hits free throws at a 67% clip, which makes getting to the line not as impressive, but also doesn't bode well for improving his 3 pt shooting.

Vassell beats him in every one of their "advanced" stats, crushing him in ORTG, DRTG, OBPM, DPM, BPM.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=isaac-okoro--devin-vassell

So you must mean digging into tape, but that must be one hell of an eye test. Vassell is only 4 months younger too, so it's not like I am comparing some 4 year guy to a freshman. He's also got a longer wingspan.

This is not quality posting my friend. This is how you draft Jarrett Culver in the top 10 and think it's a great idea and pass on Cam Reddish or Tyler Herro.

The film is FAR more important than stats. Jimmer Freddette is similar to Damian Lillard and even better in a number of those metrics. Yeah, this ain't it chief.

Okoro is simply a much better Basketball player than Vassell is. Much better.

[bwgood77]

This is not quality posting my friend. This is how you draft Jarrett Culver in the top 10 and think it's a great idea and pass on Cam Reddish or Tyler Herro.

The film is FAR more important than stats. Jimmer Freddette is similar to Damian Lillard and even better in a number of those metrics. Yeah, this ain't it chief.

Okoro is simply a much better Basketball player than Vassell is. Much better.

Funny thing is the #s didn't really bode well for Culver in this respect...also a bad shooter...the film helped him, and he was a leader who took his team to the national championship game, though he didn't play all that well. He was a very good passer too. The film is what people like about Culver more than the numbers.

Reddish I always kind of liked, but again, the numbers told you to steer clear as you suggest...so far he has been pretty terrible though...what, does he shoot like 38% overall? I know he is a high volume 3 pt shooter but not good from inside the arc or getting to the line...TS% hovering around 50%.

Tyler Herro also looked good with the #s...good TS%, pretty good 3pt shooter but also elite FT shooter so you knew the shooting was there.

Jimmer not comparable using this stuff because of level of college competition....but even with the terrible competition, his defense was so bad, I think he had like a negative DBPM using that stuff.

[King Ken]

This is not quality posting my friend. This is how you draft Jarrett Culver in the top 10 and think it's a great idea and pass on Cam Reddish or Tyler Herro.

The film is FAR more important than stats. Jimmer Freddette is similar to Damian Lillard and even better in a number of those metrics. Yeah, this ain't it chief.

Okoro is simply a much better Basketball player than Vassell is. Much better.

Funny thing is the #s didn't really bode well for Culver in this respect...also a bad shooter...the film helped him, and he was a leader who took his team to the national championship game, though he didn't play all that well. He was a very good passer too. The film is what people like about Culver more than the numbers.

Reddish I always kind of liked, but again, the numbers told you to steer clear as you suggest...so far he has been pretty terrible though...what, does he shoot like 38% overall? I know he is a high volume 3 pt shooter but not good from inside the arc or getting to the line...TS% hovering around 50%.

Tyler Herro also looked good with the #s...good TS%, pretty good 3pt shooter but also elite FT shooter so you knew the shooting was there.

Jimmer not comparable using this stuff because of level of college competition....but even with the terrible competition, his defense was so bad, I think he had like a negative DBPM using that stuff.

Jimmer comp was better than Lillard.

Okoro game film is superior.

He's a superior perimeter defender. He blows up screens which is critical in the NBA. Vassell struggles with quickness and he struggles with size, he's limited to being a small wing and the biggest issue isn't that for me, it's his frame.

Add that he's just an average passer, his shooting form is elongated, he's not going to be able to get that shot off if he isn't wide open, his ball handling is decent but his first step is below average and his explosiveness is mainly in space not in traffic.

I watched most of his games and I can't help but seeing Kent Bazemore in his game. Obviously he plays with more natural BBIQ and feel for the game than Kent but that's who he is like.

Okoro rebounding is like Dort, when you put them on the best perimeter assignments, they aren't going to be around the rim if they are good at their jobs. His offensive rebounding numbers are a truth to that. I remember arguing with idiots last year that Cam Reddish rebounding numbers are due to his defensive proficiency and his Coach K wanting for R.J. and Zion to get the boards. Look at numbers this year and it was just proof.

No question Vassell is a better off ball defender but that **** don't even matter unless your offensive impact is flames like LeBron or Harden. On ball defense and versatility is king in the NBA and Okoro is miles better at it than Vassell.

Also, look at Auburn defense without Okoro. Rubbish. Look at Duke defense without Reddish last year, pure rubbish. Lost to Cuse and one game they won 100 to 98.

Okoro is a much better offensive player too. His movement off the ball is elite. Vassell is decent at it but his stamina and lack of speed and size with a slower release makes me think off Ball play won't translate. Okoro finishing is elite and his size and explosiveness with his hands translate. Honestly, the only thing that translate for Vassell is wide open shooting but what good is that if you aren't a team like the Lakers where you got two players to get elite attention. I guess Dallas makes sense for Vassell as well

I am not sold on that kid. Too many red flags. Okoro has his weaknesses too like lack of offensive skill, shooting, lack of advanced handles but he has a great body, high BBIQ, elite movement skills for a cutter, a great first step for his size and tremendously hard to stop in space.

He just needs to work on a couple of things and be an excellent impact on offense as well as defense. Vassell needs to work a lot just to be a productive starter in this league. Vassell to me isn't worth drafting in the lottery. He's closer to Josh Green than Issac Okoro as a NBA prospect

[nolang1]

I haven't really studied him, but with HS recruiting rankings he ranked about 36-40 in his class coming into college last year. His numbers don't look particularly impressive.

I haven't watched him, so of course missing the eye test which is important, and I understand he is apparently an elite wing defender but even then his steal rate isn't terribly impressive and his rebounding looks subpar. Of course his shooting is bad, and is even a poor free throw shooter.

What is the big appeal with him? I know it's not the best class but it's hard for me to see the appeal, especially over someone like Vassell. Age?

He was just super underrated as a high school recruit due to being a defense-first player - his high school team was the undefeated national champions his senior year and he was a little overshadowed by Sharife Cooper (incoming freshman at Auburn) who was the leading scorer. Plenty of people had him as a potential lottery pick going into the season, and to me his stock is about the same or maybe a little lower than it was going into the year.

I guess that makes sense then. He started out as a potential lottery prospect on some of the draft sites, and despite not playing well, kind of stayed there, kind of like a Cam Reddish (of course different strengths) but perhaps living a lot of off early rep despite not putting up very good numbers.

While I tend to agree that between the blocks/steals being lower than expected and his wingspan being not freakishly long, he's not likely to be some 5-position lockdown defender in the NBA, he's still a very good defender. Even if you think Vassell is just as good or better defensively, it's fair to say that both players would've been considered the best perimeter defenders in last year's class as well.

Obviously box score numbers don't capture defensive value very well, and with Okoro in particular you see something similar to what happens with Klay Thompson where he's often shifting positions to guard the other team's best player and therefore isn't in position to get the 'easier' steals and blocks that come from playing help defense; kind of similar to how a super high-usage offense player isn't going to be quite as efficient. Auburn was 24-4 when he played and 1-2 when he was out, with those losses coming to two bottom-4 SEC teams in Georgia and Missouri.

So it's not like he played badly, he just shot badly. There aren't many freshmen good enough to start and be one of the key players for a top 25 team, and most people didn't have him ranked highly going into the season; he moved up because Auburn started 15-0 and was ranked in the top 5 and people's perception just caught up to what he had already shown in high school. I'm sure all the intel/background stuff on him is great, and the appeal is pretty straightforward where if his outside shot became decent that would open a lot more up for him on offense and he'd be one of the best players in the class.

[clyde21]

plays a premium position in a draft lacking in talent at that position, i think that's a big reason, but that's not to say he's bad...has a + physical profile for the position, good defender, can slide up or down a position defensively, can slash and run the court, can hit open outside shots, good baseline to be able to play right away with a decent enough ceiling

i think his best most recent comp is probably Okeke last yr, who went 16th (even after the ACL injury) and was a year older, but more productive across the board at Auburn.

[Nazrmohamed]

Well, first off this draft sucks at the top.

But as for his appeal, he is 6'6 225lb man child who got to the line against good competition at a great rate. He is also a surprisingly good passer.

He has nice defensive tools, but not elite IMO. His wingspan reportedly is only 6'8, which is vanilla as hell. He moves his feet really well for his size and his bulk gives him a chance to be that Jae Crowder type defender (Who actually is my NBA comparison for him) who can match up the bulky, athletic lead forwards who dominate this league right now (Tatum, LBJ, PG, Kawai, Luka, etc).

But, end of the day, I dont see a franchise guy or a 'top-3 option' type with him at all. I think his ceiling is Crowder in Boston, but potentially at age like 22 rather than 25. Thats a pretty nice player, certainly a archetype that is in huge demand around the league right now, and in this draft probably worth a pick in the 8-10 range, but a team looking for anything more than a great role player should be wary IMO.

Some think he could be a Leonard type who just develops like hell out of nowhere, but I wont make comparisons to such unique progression.

FWIW, of the teams in the top-10, I think he fits PHX really well. They have their top-2 already and can afford to add a potential Boston-era Crowder. They may want to add that 3rd banana, but its going to be hard at #10, if not impossible.

That's about as fair an assessment as it really gets. I wanted to say the cieling is higher than Crowder but when scouts tell you 100xs that this is a weak draft, maybe its time to listen. I said before its definitely weak at the top and you just won't find that build around type of player but its loaded with Crowder level impact role players. I actually feel like this year though there are higher floors. Lot of guys who should be like a Crowder (just using his impact as an example) and no better, but not much worse either. So my advice is if you could use a guy like Okoro then draft a guy like Okoro. Its more a need based draft.

[Nazrmohamed]

the stats dont tell the story of how well he impacts the game on both sides of the ball.
the spacing in the NBA absolutely opens up his ability to attack the rim off the dribble immensely.
I think he might have gotten a little high on mocks due to less options with similar upside

Facts. He deserves to be high considering this draft class

Well do you think he'd be better than the kid on your team from last yr? Im drawing a blank on the name...the defender you picked at 4.