Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond...

[twix2500]

It looks like Oladipo is setting himself up to push for a trade to the Heat. But it is always a challenge when its in-conference rivals. The Heat striked out four times to get a top teir point to pair Butler and Bam with Wall, Westbrook, Paul and Conley. Oladipo is probably a better fit than all four even thou hes been considered a shooting guard his whole career. The Heat this season has gotten to the finals using a scoring point. So I think his skill set fits the role. Brings another scorer to the fold which I think is vital when building a team around Butler. So should see soon after the finals

https://youtu.be/CjY81X1umwU


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I used to be high on Dip, but honestly he only had 1 great year. very scary committing long term money / assets for him.

1 good year, then a serious injury, nothing impressive since.

Dipo is similar to when we pursued Dragic and Tim Hardaway. No he his not the player he was that one year, if that was the case we wouldn't be able to afford him. But that doesn't mean he is not a good player with a lot of talent. Its obvious much of his athleticism hasn't return yet. But I do expect most of his athleticism to return if not all of it. I believe he can return to All-Star quality play or close to it. He's had a full year back on the court. I think Spo system will allow him to flourish. And the Heat conditioning program start the return of his explosiveness.

I'm sure just like Dragic, the Heat will have a verbal agreement or understanding what his new contract will be before completing a trade. If they cant agree then just like Gallinari and Stoudemire the Heat will not proceed. I can see the Heat wanting a Dragic type of contract for Dipo. If Dipo really wants a max contract I rather him prove it while on the roster that he is a max player.

I think Dipo possibly can be had in a trade similar to Dragic/Pheonix trade. He has now verbally and physically expressed his desire to be moved. The last thing is to request the desired teams. Remember, we have players to resign this summer and resigning Nunn, Robinson and Bam following. A trade is likely needed to be able to resign our players and go over the cap. Also to note, Dipo current contract is not huge, so trading for him this offseason would allow Heat to have free agency money this offseason.


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[DayofMourning]

Lol, this is a low ball offer, but heck, let's do it.

https://8points9seconds.com/2020/06/11/indiana-pacers-myles-turner-trade-miami-heat/2/

[dean456]

Oladipo doesn't work money wise. We either lose max cap space flexibility in 2021, lose Bam or waste assets on a one year rental of Oladipo.

Turner is also a no go. He and Bam don't like each other. The front office isn't going to cause a problem with the chemistry this team currently has.

[Wiltside]

Dipo is a FA in 2021. So I don’t see how we’d lose max cap space. Is that in reference to his cap hold?

[Wiltside]

Seeing the Lakers size, and the fact they'll likely be contenders for the next few years, I think we need to target Giannis. He's the only guy in the league who is arguably more of a freak from a physical/athletic standpoint than Davis.

Yes spacing is an issue with him, Bam and Jimmy, but Jimmy can shoot the three a little (he's shown it at times in the bubble) and if you flank them with Herro and Robinson, there's shooters on the floor. You also then get creative with your bench rotations and mixing and matching lineups during the course of a game to get adequate spacing around them.

It's a long shot, but I think we need to go all in on the Freak.

[puppa bear]

Seeing the Lakers size, and the fact they'll likely be contenders for the next few years, I think we need to target Giannis. He's the only guy in the league who is arguably more of a freak from a physical/athletic standpoint than Davis.

Yes spacing is an issue with him, Bam and Jimmy, but Jimmy can shoot the three a little (he's shown it at times in the bubble) and if you flank them with Herro and Robinson, there's shooters on the floor. You also then get creative with your bench rotations and mixing and matching lineups during the course of a game to get adequate spacing around them.

It's a long shot, but I think we need to go all in on the Freak.

Agreed. If we assume the Lakers are going to stay similarly constructed and the Nuggets will keep getting better, then we need more size that’s not just regular season fodder.

Having a power rotation that starts with Bam/Giannis and then goes into a 3rd big (like Leonard or KO) would allow us to keep 1 of Bam/Giannis on the court at all times. Having someone like KZ who can come in and be that Crowder style small-ball 3&D has him in as the 4th, especially if he can play 3/4 like Crowder can.

Then it just becomes about filling out the rest of the roster - Jimmy/Herro/Robinson/Nunn take the first 4 spots (out of likely 6 rotation spots). If we get Dragic on the balloon then team friendly, then there’s a 5th. That really only leaves space for 1 more player, but we have a draft pick coming in. Unless we trade Nunn/KO/pick for an immediate upgrade, but that will have to be one that still allows us to pursue Giannis.

Without a trade, I can see 2020/21 as a “run it back” type of year, with 1-year balloon payments for Dragic, Crowder, Leonard and maybe even DJJ.

[3ballbomber]

Seeing the Lakers size, and the fact they'll likely be contenders for the next few years, I think we need to target Giannis. He's the only guy in the league who is arguably more of a freak from a physical/athletic standpoint than Davis.

Yes spacing is an issue with him, Bam and Jimmy, but Jimmy can shoot the three a little (he's shown it at times in the bubble) and if you flank them with Herro and Robinson, there's shooters on the floor. You also then get creative with your bench rotations and mixing and matching lineups during the course of a game to get adequate spacing around them.

It's a long shot, but I think we need to go all in on the Freak.

Absolutely...Giannis is our answer. Greek Freak or bust. We must counter LA's towers.

I guarantee you, after this series w/ LA which will most likely be a loss, Riley will be even more hungry/determined after losing to Ledouche & getting a wif of 1 more championship. Riley & us will be in complete revenge mode against Lequit.Losing to him will leave a bad taste in his mouth. He'll up his effort 10 fold to land Giannis. Box of rings won't be enough Riles will offer him the f*ckin multiverse. Considering he has yet to hang it up for his desire for another championship, he'll make it his mission to land his whale in Giannis.

Giannis is our missing piece. If he can vision what he could potentially accomplish here it will hopefully heavily sway him into signing.

Could you imagine 2021 NBA Finals rematch Heat vs Lakers, but we come in w/ Giannis & few upgrades Lebron gone soil his panties.

[RexBoyWonder]

Ok i'll bite. Just for fun - How do you see our offense working with :

Herro (let's say he can play PG full time)
Jimmy
Robinson
Bam
Giannis


You basically have 3 non shooters on the floor in the era of spacing. The paint will be super crowded. Do you think it just won't matter because of the pure talent? Don't you think all 3 non shooter will have a hard time operating in the crowded paint?

Defense could be great, but how will the offense look?

[puppa bear]

Ok i'll bite. Just for fun - How do you see our offense working with :

Herro (let's say he can play PG full time)
Jimmy
Robinson
Bam
Giannis


You basically have 3 non shooters on the floor in the era of spacing. The paint will be super crowded. Do you think it just won't matter because of the pure talent? Don't you think all 3 non shooter will have a hard time operating in the crowded paint?

Defense could be great, but how will the offense look?

We talk about Giannis being a non-shooter, but the reality is he currently launches just under 24% of his FGA from the 3 (this went up to over 24% in the PO - but also doesn’t account for the times he’s fouled and gets FTs - though they went down in the PO from 10 to 9 per game).

Anthony Davis (the unicorn we say is the perfect fit) has never launched more 3s per game, and only this year got higher than 15% (still hasn’t broken 20%). AD does hit at about 3% higher clip and is a better FT shooter, but is much prolific at getting to the line.

Our current stretch 5s (Meyer and Kelly) took 6 combined 3s per game this season. Giannis took 4.7. They shoot it better, but have had years being in that role.

Let’s look back at Bosh: he was shooting about as many 3s per 100 shots as Bam currently does, when in Toronto (there were 2 seasons he was higher, but that dropped off in the final 2 seasons). He went from shooting 0.3/20 shots to 4.2/14.5 in his final season. Again his FT shooting is better than Giannis’, but it’s not like Giannis is Shaq from the line.

Long story short: if we get Giannis I expect his 3pt percentage to increase in the first 2 years and his attempts to keep going up. We have good shooting coaches and a history of having some great shooters. This will alleviate the spacing issue, as will the need for his (& Jimmy’s & Bam’s) defender to know where they are and where they’re moving to. If you leave a player like any of those 3 too much you will pay. None of these three are Ben Simmons - they will shoot, score and make you pay if you play soft on them.

So, I’m not worried about fit. None of them are power hungry alphas who must have the ball (Harden Westbrook), and none of them are carbon copies of prime skill sets (LeBron/Wade). Fit won’t be an issue if Giannis comes to Miami - he’ll be coming here to win and improve.

[RexBoyWonder]

Ok i'll bite. Just for fun - How do you see our offense working with :

Herro (let's say he can play PG full time)
Jimmy
Robinson
Bam
Giannis


You basically have 3 non shooters on the floor in the era of spacing. The paint will be super crowded. Do you think it just won't matter because of the pure talent? Don't you think all 3 non shooter will have a hard time operating in the crowded paint?

Defense could be great, but how will the offense look?

We talk about Giannis being a non-shooter, but the reality is he currently launches just under 24% of his FGA from the 3 (this went up to over 24% in the PO - but also doesn’t account for the times he’s fouled and gets FTs - though they went down in the PO from 10 to 9 per game).

Anthony Davis (the unicorn we say is the perfect fit) has never launched more 3s per game, and only this year got higher than 15% (still hasn’t broken 20%). AD does hit at about 3% higher clip and is a better FT shooter, but is much prolific at getting to the line.

Our current stretch 5s (Meyer and Kelly) took 6 combined 3s per game this season. Giannis took 4.7. They shoot it better, but have had years being in that role.

Let’s look back at Bosh: he was shooting about as many 3s per 100 shots as Bam currently does, when in Toronto (there were 2 seasons he was higher, but that dropped off in the final 2 seasons). He went from shooting 0.3/20 shots to 4.2/14.5 in his final season. Again his FT shooting is better than Giannis’, but it’s not like Giannis is Shaq from the line.

Long story short: if we get Giannis I expect his 3pt percentage to increase in the first 2 years and his attempts to keep going up. We have good shooting coaches and a history of having some great shooters. This will alleviate the spacing issue, as will the need for his (& Jimmy’s & Bam’s) defender to know where they are and where they’re moving to. If you leave a player like any of those 3 too much you will pay. None of these three are Ben Simmons - they will shoot, score and make you pay if you play soft on them.

So, I’m not worried about fit. None of them are power hungry alphas who must have the ball (Harden Westbrook), and none of them are carbon copies of prime skill sets (LeBron/Wade). Fit won’t be an issue if Giannis comes to Miami - he’ll be coming here to win and improve.

To sum up - If your plan is to bring Giannis here so he can become a 3 point shooter - I don't think it makes any sense basketball wise. And it's unlikely to work on the court even if tried. (and I highly doubt you can sell Giannis that plan as a free agent).

[puppa bear]

Ok i'll bite. Just for fun - How do you see our offense working with :

Herro (let's say he can play PG full time)
Jimmy
Robinson
Bam
Giannis


You basically have 3 non shooters on the floor in the era of spacing. The paint will be super crowded. Do you think it just won't matter because of the pure talent? Don't you think all 3 non shooter will have a hard time operating in the crowded paint?

Defense could be great, but how will the offense look?

We talk about Giannis being a non-shooter, but the reality is he currently launches just under 24% of his FGA from the 3 (this went up to over 24% in the PO - but also doesn’t account for the times he’s fouled and gets FTs - though they went down in the PO from 10 to 9 per game).

Anthony Davis (the unicorn we say is the perfect fit) has never launched more 3s per game, and only this year got higher than 15% (still hasn’t broken 20%). AD does hit at about 3% higher clip and is a better FT shooter, but is much prolific at getting to the line.

Our current stretch 5s (Meyer and Kelly) took 6 combined 3s per game this season. Giannis took 4.7. They shoot it better, but have had years being in that role.

Let’s look back at Bosh: he was shooting about as many 3s per 100 shots as Bam currently does, when in Toronto (there were 2 seasons he was higher, but that dropped off in the final 2 seasons). He went from shooting 0.3/20 shots to 4.2/14.5 in his final season. Again his FT shooting is better than Giannis’, but it’s not like Giannis is Shaq from the line.

Long story short: if we get Giannis I expect his 3pt percentage to increase in the first 2 years and his attempts to keep going up. We have good shooting coaches and a history of having some great shooters. This will alleviate the spacing issue, as will the need for his (& Jimmy’s & Bam’s) defender to know where they are and where they’re moving to. If you leave a player like any of those 3 too much you will pay. None of these three are Ben Simmons - they will shoot, score and make you pay if you play soft on them.

So, I’m not worried about fit. None of them are power hungry alphas who must have the ball (Harden Westbrook), and none of them are carbon copies of prime skill sets (LeBron/Wade). Fit won’t be an issue if Giannis comes to Miami - he’ll be coming here to win and improve.

To sum up - If your plan is to bring Giannis here so he can become a 3 point shooter - I don't think it makes any sense basketball wise. And it's unlikely to work on the court even if tried. (and I highly doubt you can sell Giannis that plan as a free agent).

No, my plan is to not stress about him not shooting enough or well enough. Giannis isn’t as bad at shooting from range as we make him out to be, so we don’t have to create a whole new offence to fit him.

To directly respond to you original post:
I think having “3 non shooters on the floor” won’t matter because: a. Giannis isn’t as much of a non-shooter as this board considers him to be (see my points above); b. the player and ball movement in our offence won’t allow defences to pack the paint very easily (unless they zone and track shooters effectively), and c. while you can pack the paint against the Bucks you can’t drop that far off Jimmy (though you probably can off Bam at the moment), and if Giannis is weak side you can’t just ignore a two-time MVP off-ball.

[BFRESH44]

You discredit players like Giannis, Bam, and Jimmy categorizing them as “non shooters”. The versatility and different type of actions Spo can run out of all those guys is endless. Giannis is 2 time MVP...don’t overthink it.

[RexBoyWonder]

You discredit players like Giannis, Bam, and Jimmy categorizing them as “non shooters”. The versatility and different type of actions Spo can run out of all those guys is endless. Giannis is 2 time MVP...don’t overthink it.

I'm not saying we'll be the worst offense in the league.

But if you add all that kind of talent, it's with the expectation of wining multiple rings. That's what Giannis would be signing for.

So can a offense, in today's NBA, be good enough with 3 guys that that don't hit (or even really shoot) 3's?
3 guys that live in the paint and get 90% of their points in the restricted area?

We just saw how ineffective Giannis was when we walled of the paint, and that was with more spacing with the Bucks then he would have next to Jimmy and Bam. Unless those 3 magically improve their outside shots, you're building a team that is destined to struggle against any good playoff defense. Spo being creative and cutting will only get you so far. It will put alot of pressure on the defense to be elite on a nightly basis. You can't really stagger their minutes either since all 3 are too good and too young to not play in crunch time.

And I really don't want to put my hopes on Giannis learning to shot. That's not a smart assumption to build on for the short term.

Talent in important but the fit of those 3 seems super forced and awkward, maximizing their talent will be next to impossible. The Talent alone will carry us to probably to ECF, but that's not really the goal is it.

If it was anyone else my answer would simply be - Just trade Bam/Jimmy (or both) for better fitting pieces. But I can can't see us (or want us) to move those guys.

[RonaldSeikaly]

Giannis is talented enough that we’d make it work. He’s talented enough that it’s hard to believe we wouldn’t be a preseason favorite to go and win the finals every year.

it’s fun to speculate who would be an ideal fit. If we’re thinking Bigs, somebody like Nurkic may not make us as good of a team as a superstar like Giannis but he would complement the pieces we have better and allow them to achieve their potential.

But if we’re being honest our only tradable assets are considered core pieces besides KO (assuming he takes his player option) and maybe Nunn. we will likely have some expiring contracts that we sign up on one year balloon payments. But those contracts won’t really be in play until after the season starts. I suppose if a pending free agent made it known that they wanted to sign with us we’d have some leverage. But really we’re limited to role players on the trade market and stars through unrestricted free agency.

For next year, I’m curious who we can convince to sign up for big 1 year contracts. I really want to see Herro get some consistency. I want to see if Robinson can learn from this run and step up to big moments. Both Herro and especially Robinson need to develop in to at least neutral defenders. I want to see Bam be more assertive on the offensive end. I still think DJJ can develop a jump shot... I haven’t given up on him being a 35% 3-point shooter with reasonable volume.


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[BFRESH44]

You discredit players like Giannis, Bam, and Jimmy categorizing them as “non shooters”. The versatility and different type of actions Spo can run out of all those guys is endless. Giannis is 2 time MVP...don’t overthink it.

I'm not saying we'll be the worst offense in the league.

But if you add all that kind of talent, it's with the expectation of wining multiple rings. That's what Giannis would be signing for.

So can a offense, in today's NBA, be good enough with 3 guys that that don't hit (or even really shoot) 3's?
3 guys that live in the paint and get 90% of their points in the restricted area?

We just saw how ineffective Giannis was when we walled of the paint, and that was with more spacing with the Bucks then he would have next to Jimmy and Bam. Unless those 3 magically improve their outside shots, you're building a team that is destined to struggle against any good playoff defense. Spo being creative and cutting will only get you so far. It will put alot of pressure on the defense to be elite on a nightly basis. You can't really stagger their minutes either since all 3 are too good and too young to not play in crunch time.

And I really don't want to put my hopes on Giannis learning to shot. That's not a smart assumption to build on for the short term.

Talent in important but the fit of those 3 seems super forced and awkward, maximizing their talent will be next to impossible. The Talent alone will carry us to probably to ECF, but that's not really the goal is it.

If it was anyone else my answer would simply be - Just trade Bam/Jimmy (or both) for better fitting pieces. But I can can't see us (or want us) to move those guys.

The onus is on the coach to mold it together and I have no doubt we have one of the very best.


Spo will have Giannis and Bam operating at the elbows running endless dribble hand off actions with Herro and Duncan. Which will be impossible to guard. Imagine a 2-5 screen and roll with Giannis diving hard as the roll man in a two man game with Jimmy. The possibilities are truly endless. I wouldn’t be worry about fit at all.

[Bishop45]

I think what Rex is trying to say is that we need an all-time great scorer currently being leased by the Rockets

[puppa bear]

I think what Rex is trying to say is that we need an all-time great scorer currently being leased by the Rockets

The Brodie?

[oreon]

You discredit players like Giannis, Bam, and Jimmy categorizing them as “non shooters”. The versatility and different type of actions Spo can run out of all those guys is endless. Giannis is 2 time MVP...don’t overthink it.

I'm not saying we'll be the worst offense in the league.

But if you add all that kind of talent, it's with the expectation of wining multiple rings. That's what Giannis would be signing for.

So can a offense, in today's NBA, be good enough with 3 guys that that don't hit (or even really shoot) 3's?
3 guys that live in the paint and get 90% of their points in the restricted area?

We just saw how ineffective Giannis was when we walled of the paint, and that was with more spacing with the Bucks then he would have next to Jimmy and Bam. Unless those 3 magically improve their outside shots, you're building a team that is destined to struggle against any good playoff defense. Spo being creative and cutting will only get you so far. It will put alot of pressure on the defense to be elite on a nightly basis. You can't really stagger their minutes either since all 3 are too good and too young to not play in crunch time.

And I really don't want to put my hopes on Giannis learning to shot. That's not a smart assumption to build on for the short term.

Talent in important but the fit of those 3 seems super forced and awkward, maximizing their talent will be next to impossible. The Talent alone will carry us to probably to ECF, but that's not really the goal is it.

If it was anyone else my answer would simply be - Just trade Bam/Jimmy (or both) for better fitting pieces. But I can can't see us (or want us) to move those guys.

If we get Giannis it would have to be via Free agency because you wouldn't want to loose Herro and Robinson. I'd imagine the starting lineup with Giannis would him, Herro, Robinson, Bam and Butler. If that lineup doesn't work then Spo & Riles would need to have the difficult conversation with Butler about benching him. If you replace Butler with a 3 & d wing, the lineup balances out perfectly.
If you can have two elite shooters + a good shooter, a passing big with a midrange and Giannis, you can have an elite offense.

Unfortunately that means Butler goes down the pecking order. But these playoffs have proven the team needs to be built around Herro and Bam. Herro has shown he can absolutely make the leap to a no 2 option. Those two would fit well with Giannis.

[al bondiga]

Seeing the Lakers size, and the fact they'll likely be contenders for the next few years, I think we need to target Giannis. He's the only guy in the league who is arguably more of a freak from a physical/athletic standpoint than Davis.

Yes spacing is an issue with him, Bam and Jimmy, but Jimmy can shoot the three a little (he's shown it at times in the bubble) and if you flank them with Herro and Robinson, there's shooters on the floor. You also then get creative with your bench rotations and mixing and matching lineups during the course of a game to get adequate spacing around them.

It's a long shot, but I think we need to go all in on the Freak.

it is obvious we have to go for Gianni's ,Oladipo is just more of the same we already have... but what worries me is if we lose dragon and not get the freak

[Wiltside]

I love Gogi, and he’s had a terrific year. More than we could’ve possibly expected in every sense.

But if he’s wanting multiple years, we can’t do it this offseason. It jeopardizes everything we’ve been planning for, and we simply have to be players in 2021. It’s the only way we can sustainably be at the top of the East and a perennial contender for the next 5 odd years. We need to be topping up with another max player as Jimmy starts to potentially decline.

I still think Gogi will take the 1yr deal with a smaller 2 year deal in the 2021 offseason. Crowder is tougher to predict. If Jae goes, I think we need to consider what we want from that 4 spot. Is it size and shooting (eg Kelly if he opts in?) or is it 3&D (KZ? DJJ? Potential cheap FA?).

A lot of our success next year will depend on further internal improvement. Herro took a leap in the mini offszn, he will need to get in the lab and back to work. He’s going to have a big role to play next year. Bam needs to take another jump offensively, particularly with his J and face up game. Duncan HAS to improve defensively and get stronger. I’m pleased to see Nunn looking like the old Nunn and not Rona Nunn....but still feel he’s likely trade bait to get another starter.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Derrick Jones and his FA. He hasn’t played much in the postseason which may bring his FA price down, but I’m also not that interested in committing long term money/years into him. He’s a solid rotation piece but his J is too shaky and he’s too thin. He’s basically an undersized, skinny PF. If he gets a good offer, I hope we congratulate him and let him go.