Trade Talk (Part Four)

[SO_MONEY]

I think the best Knicks deal is...

#8 + Randle + Knox + 2021 or 2022 (unprotected Wolves option) + 2021 Dallas (unprotected)
FOR
#1 + Johnson + Spellman

The question becomes, can Wolves get the other Dallas 1st owed?

I am not sure I have seen a team trade a pick with the option to defer, but I know of no rule against it. It would have made the Stepian Rule tougher for NYK’s front office, but they have unprotected DAL picks to avoid it. This option would potentially give MIN two chances to get a top 4 lottery pick, so I estimate that it increases the value of their pick by 50%. I think that would make it too rich for the Knicks.

I love this out of the box thinking!

Slightly different scenario:
#1, Culver, Nowell, Spellman, Evans for #8 + 2021 Dallas (unprotected)+ 2022 NYK (unprotected)

Why for MIN: trade for two lottery future picks
Why for NYK: get Ball, speed up the development process by filling the roster with Culver, Nowell, Spellman

Then
#8, JJ for Caris LeVert
Why for MIN: trade for starting SF who can hit threes, slash and handle the ball
Why for BRO: they can aggregate #8, Dinwiddie, Allen, Prince and try to get third star.

Draft Tillman(#17), Grant Riller(#33). Re-sign Beasley, JMac, Juancho, Martin.

KAT/Reid/Tillman
Tillman/Juancho/Vanderbilt
LeVert/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Riller
DLo/JMac/LeVert

Tillman will add defense, passing and finishing at rim. KAT-LeVert-Beasley-DLo is an elite shooting unit. LeVert is a dynamic slasher and ballhandler which might fit well next to DLo.

That first deal is horrendous. Like really, really bad. I have no idea the logic behind it. Awful. Yikes. No thought behind it at all.

[Slim Tubby]

I am not sure I have seen a team trade a pick with the option to defer, but I know of no rule against it. It would have made the Stepian Rule tougher for NYK’s front office, but they have unprotected DAL picks to avoid it. This option would potentially give MIN two chances to get a top 4 lottery pick, so I estimate that it increases the value of their pick by 50%. I think that would make it too rich for the Knicks.

I love this out of the box thinking!

Slightly different scenario:
#1, Culver, Nowell, Spellman, Evans for #8 + 2021 Dallas (unprotected)+ 2022 NYK (unprotected)

Why for MIN: trade for two lottery future picks
Why for NYK: get Ball, speed up the development process by filling the roster with Culver, Nowell, Spellman

Then
#8, JJ for Caris LeVert
Why for MIN: trade for starting SF who can hit threes, slash and handle the ball
Why for BRO: they can aggregate #8, Dinwiddie, Allen, Prince and try to get third star.

Draft Tillman(#17), Grant Riller(#33). Re-sign Beasley, JMac, Juancho, Martin.

KAT/Reid/Tillman
Tillman/Juancho/Vanderbilt
LeVert/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Riller
DLo/JMac/LeVert

Tillman will add defense, passing and finishing at rim. KAT-LeVert-Beasley-DLo is an elite shooting unit. LeVert is a dynamic slasher and ballhandler which might fit well next to DLo.

That first deal is horrendous. Like really, really bad. I have no idea the logic behind it. Awful. Yikes. No thought behind it at all.

I disagree...#1 for 2020 #8, 2021 Unprotected NYK 1st and 2021 Unprotected DAL 1st? We’d be insane not to accept that considering that the 2021 draft might be the best in the last 20 years. At #8 this year, it could be Vassell, it could be Toppin or a few other quality players still on the board. If we keep the pick, draft Wiseman. If we trade it, target Simmons first and then chase this pipe dream.


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[Neeva]

Isn’t 2022 the strong double draft, 2021 does not seem all that great besides the top 7-8 and especially weaker after the top 12. I like Jalen Green though.

There are too many bad teams in the east I can easily see the knicks and thibs scratching their way to the 8th seed , and dallas pick will be early 20’s at best.

[Baseline81]

Slightly different scenario:
#1, Culver, Nowell, Spellman, Evans for #8 + 2021 Dallas (unprotected)+ 2022 NYK (unprotected)

Why for MIN: trade for two lottery future picks
Why for NYK: get Ball, speed up the development process by filling the roster with Culver, Nowell, Spellman

Then
#8, JJ for Caris LeVert
Why for MIN: trade for starting SF who can hit threes, slash and handle the ball
Why for BRO: they can aggregate #8, Dinwiddie, Allen, Prince and try to get third star.

Draft Tillman(#17), Grant Riller(#33). Re-sign Beasley, JMac, Juancho, Martin.

KAT/Reid/Tillman
Tillman/Juancho/Vanderbilt
LeVert/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Riller
DLo/JMac/LeVert

Tillman will add defense, passing and finishing at rim. KAT-LeVert-Beasley-DLo is an elite shooting unit. LeVert is a dynamic slasher and ballhandler which might fit well next to DLo.

That first deal is horrendous. Like really, really bad. I have no idea the logic behind it. Awful. Yikes. No thought behind it at all.

I disagree...#1 for 2020 #8, 2021 Unprotected NYK 1st and 2021 Unprotected DAL 1st? We’d be insane not to accept that considering that the 2021 draft might be the best in the last 20 years. At #8 this year, it could be Vassell, it could be Toppin or a few other quality players still on the board. If we keep the pick, draft Wiseman. If we trade it, target Simmons first and then chase this pipe dream.

Unless I am reading the post from minimus incorrectly, the 2021 Knicks first-round pick is not involved. New York's 2022 is, though.

[SO_MONEY]

Slightly different scenario:
#1, Culver, Nowell, Spellman, Evans for #8 + 2021 Dallas (unprotected)+ 2022 NYK (unprotected)

Why for MIN: trade for two lottery future picks
Why for NYK: get Ball, speed up the development process by filling the roster with Culver, Nowell, Spellman

Then
#8, JJ for Caris LeVert
Why for MIN: trade for starting SF who can hit threes, slash and handle the ball
Why for BRO: they can aggregate #8, Dinwiddie, Allen, Prince and try to get third star.

Draft Tillman(#17), Grant Riller(#33). Re-sign Beasley, JMac, Juancho, Martin.

KAT/Reid/Tillman
Tillman/Juancho/Vanderbilt
LeVert/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Riller
DLo/JMac/LeVert

Tillman will add defense, passing and finishing at rim. KAT-LeVert-Beasley-DLo is an elite shooting unit. LeVert is a dynamic slasher and ballhandler which might fit well next to DLo.

That first deal is horrendous. Like really, really bad. I have no idea the logic behind it. Awful. Yikes. No thought behind it at all.

I disagree...#1 for 2020 #8, 2021 Unprotected NYK 1st and 2021 Unprotected DAL 1st? We’d be insane not to accept that considering that the 2021 draft might be the best in the last 20 years. At #8 this year, it could be Vassell, it could be Toppin or a few other quality players still on the board. If we keep the pick, draft Wiseman. If we trade it, target Simmons first and then chase this pipe dream.


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It would at minimum require #8 and the NY 2021 (not 2022) pick to get you to #1, I am not trading Culver for a Dallas pick and I am not tossing in Nowell (who I am high on) and Spellman. The value is WAY off!!!!!

[Slim Tubby]

That first deal is horrendous. Like really, really bad. I have no idea the logic behind it. Awful. Yikes. No thought behind it at all.

I disagree...#1 for 2020 #8, 2021 Unprotected NYK 1st and 2021 Unprotected DAL 1st? We’d be insane not to accept that considering that the 2021 draft might be the best in the last 20 years. At #8 this year, it could be Vassell, it could be Toppin or a few other quality players still on the board. If we keep the pick, draft Wiseman. If we trade it, target Simmons first and then chase this pipe dream.

Unless I am reading the post from minimus incorrectly, the 2021 Knicks first-round pick is not involved. New York's 2022 is, though.

You are correct...I misread Money’s offer before posting. My bad.


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[minimus]

Isn’t 2022 the strong double draft, 2021 does not seem all that great besides the top 7-8 and especially weaker after the top 12. I like Jalen Green though.

There are too many bad teams in the east I can easily see the knicks and thibs scratching their way to the 8th seed , and dallas pick will be early 20’s at best.

Exactly, my friend.

The NBA seems to be targeting the 2022 draft as the first year where high school seniors can jump straight to the league. This would be a welcomed change and would help solve some of the problems with NCAA athletes not being allowed to receive financial benefits, and would be great for draft fans getting to see the most elite players go straight to the draft.

Superstar Emoni Bates seems like a lock to take advantage of the new rule and could even be the no.1 overall selection in the draft. Jalen Duran, who recently transferred to Montverde, is another name to watch as a possible prep to pros candidate. And if the past tells us anything there could be a dozen or more top high schoolers who attempt to jump straight to the league.

[minimus]

With brotherly love seemingly gone, is Buddy Hield eyeing a move to Philly?

https://theathletic.com/2109475/2020/10/02/with-brotherly-love-seemingly-gone-is-buddy-hield-eyeing-a-move-to-philly

MIN IN: Ben Simmons, #21
MIN OUT: JJ, Nowell, Evans, Spellman, Culver, #1

SAC IN: JJ, Evans, Spellman, Culver
SAC OUT: Hield

PHI IN: Hield, Nowell, #1
PHI OUT: Simmons, #21

Why for PHI: get an elite shooter, get starting PG (Lonzo Ball/Hayes)
Why for SAC: get expiring JJ, Culver, trade disgruntled star

Draft Grant Riller, Xavier Tillman. Re-sign Beasley, JMac, Juancho, Martin.

KAT/Reid/Tillman
Simmons/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Layman/Martin/Okogie
Beasley/Okogie/Riller
DLo/JMac/Simmons

[SO_MONEY]

Isn’t 2022 the strong double draft, 2021 does not seem all that great besides the top 7-8 and especially weaker after the top 12. I like Jalen Green though.

There are too many bad teams in the east I can easily see the knicks and thibs scratching their way to the 8th seed , and dallas pick will be early 20’s at best.

Exactly, my friend.

The NBA seems to be targeting the 2022 draft as the first year where high school seniors can jump straight to the league. This would be a welcomed change and would help solve some of the problems with NCAA athletes not being allowed to receive financial benefits, and would be great for draft fans getting to see the most elite players go straight to the draft.

Superstar Emoni Bates seems like a lock to take advantage of the new rule and could even be the no.1 overall selection in the draft. Jalen Duran, who recently transferred to Montverde, is another name to watch as a possible prep to pros candidate. And if the past tells us anything there could be a dozen or more top high schoolers who attempt to jump straight to the league.

Rumors are they are pushing it back further.

[KGdaBom]

With brotherly love seemingly gone, is Buddy Hield eyeing a move to Philly?

https://theathletic.com/2109475/2020/10/02/with-brotherly-love-seemingly-gone-is-buddy-hield-eyeing-a-move-to-philly

MIN IN: Ben Simmons, #21
MIN OUT: JJ, Nowell, Evans, Spellman, Culver, #1

SAC IN: JJ, Evans, Spellman, Culver
SAC OUT: Hield

PHI IN: Hield, Nowell, #1
PHI OUT: Simmons, #21

Why for PHI: get an elite shooter, get starting PG (Lonzo Ball/Hayes)
Why for SAC: get expiring JJ, Culver, trade disgruntled star

Draft Grant Riller, Xavier Tillman. Re-sign Beasley, JMac, Juancho, Martin.

KAT/Reid/Tillman
Simmons/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Layman/Martin/Okogie
Beasley/Okogie/Riller
DLo/JMac/Simmons

You're adding Nowell to 76ers and the #21 pick to us tweaking the deal originally proposed. Most people would say advantage Wolves at this point. Nowell has been sharp in our bubble camp so maybe not.

[SO_MONEY]

With brotherly love seemingly gone, is Buddy Hield eyeing a move to Philly?

https://theathletic.com/2109475/2020/10/02/with-brotherly-love-seemingly-gone-is-buddy-hield-eyeing-a-move-to-philly

MIN IN: Ben Simmons, #21
MIN OUT: JJ, Nowell, Evans, Spellman, Culver, #1

SAC IN: JJ, Evans, Spellman, Culver
SAC OUT: Hield

PHI IN: Hield, Nowell, #1
PHI OUT: Simmons, #21

Why for PHI: get an elite shooter, get starting PG (Lonzo Ball/Hayes)
Why for SAC: get expiring JJ, Culver, trade disgruntled star

Draft Grant Riller, Xavier Tillman. Re-sign Beasley, JMac, Juancho, Martin.

KAT/Reid/Tillman
Simmons/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Layman/Martin/Okogie
Beasley/Okogie/Riller
DLo/JMac/Simmons

You're adding Nowell to 76ers and the #21 pick to us tweaking the deal originally proposed. Most people would say advantage Wolves at this point. Nowell has been sharp in our bubble camp so maybe not.

Swap Nowell for #17 and that is in the ballpark of my willingness.

[Midw35t]

What if Philly looks to retool a bit around Simmons and Embiid?

Philly out: Harris, #34

Philly in: Hield, JJ

Kings out: Hield, Barnes

Kings in: Harris, #17, #34

MN out: JJ, #17

MN in: Barnes

Philly starters:
Milton/Hield/Richardson/Simmons/Embiid

Increase shooting and keep a deep bench.

Kings starters: Fox/Bogdan/Harris/Bjelicia/Bagley

Sign a big body for larger Center matchups?

Free up money to go after a core player next offseason and get another pick to take a stab to add to the young core.

Wolves starters:
DLO/Beasley/Culver or Okogie/ Barnes/KAT.

#1 pick can change the SG-PF rotation.

[Neeva]

What if Philly looks to retool a bit around Simmons and Embiid?

Philly out: Harris, #34

Philly in: Hield, JJ

Kings out: Hield, Barnes

Kings in: Harris, #17, #34

MN out: JJ, #17

MN in: Barnes

Philly starters:
Milton/Hield/Richardson/Simmons/Embiid

Increase shooting and keep a deep bench.

Kings starters: Fox/Bogdan/Harris/Bjelicia/Bagley?

Free up money to go after a core player next offseason and get another pick to take a stab to add to the young core.

Wolves starters:
DLO/Beasley/Culver or Okogie/ Barnes/KAT.

#1 pick can change the SG-PF rotation.

Barnes aint worth that, he sucks.

[Midw35t]

What if Philly looks to retool a bit around Simmons and Embiid?

Philly out: Harris, #34

Philly in: Hield, JJ

Kings out: Hield, Barnes

Kings in: Harris, #17, #34

MN out: JJ, #17

MN in: Barnes

Philly starters:
Milton/Hield/Richardson/Simmons/Embiid

Increase shooting and keep a deep bench.

Kings starters: Fox/Bogdan/Harris/Bjelicia/Bagley?

Free up money to go after a core player next offseason and get another pick to take a stab to add to the young core.

Wolves starters:
DLO/Beasley/Culver or Okogie/ Barnes/KAT.

#1 pick can change the SG-PF rotation.

Barnes aint worth that, he sucks.

Does he though?

38% on 3-4 attempts a game? Decent D, doesn't demand the ball on O. I think he would be a good fit to solidify our 3/4 position at a cheap cost.

[Neeva]

What if Philly looks to retool a bit around Simmons and Embiid?

Philly out: Harris, #34

Philly in: Hield, JJ

Kings out: Hield, Barnes

Kings in: Harris, #17, #34

MN out: JJ, #17

MN in: Barnes

Philly starters:
Milton/Hield/Richardson/Simmons/Embiid

Increase shooting and keep a deep bench.

Kings starters: Fox/Bogdan/Harris/Bjelicia/Bagley?

Free up money to go after a core player next offseason and get another pick to take a stab to add to the young core.

Wolves starters:
DLO/Beasley/Culver or Okogie/ Barnes/KAT.

#1 pick can change the SG-PF rotation.

Barnes aint worth that, he sucks.

Does he though?

38% on 3-4 attempts a game? Decent D, doesn't demand the ball on O. I think he would be a good fit to solidify our 3/4 position at a cheap cost.

With his contract, he does not have positive value.

[shrink]

I wrote this on the trade board, in response to the question: “What could MIN get for#1, #17, and Culver?”

Keep in mind that team control is very important to Minnesota. The 1 and 17 have four years of team control and Culver has three, and even after this, they’d have RFA and Bird rights on all three players. They can’t swap this package for anyone that could walk after one year.

They also have max deals on Towns and Russell, so adding a third player with a salary north of $20 is going to be rough to field the rest of the team.

I think this package would work best for a young player starting his third year. Obviously Luka and Trae are off the table, and this package is too valuable for most of the others. Two guys that could make some sense are Shai and JJJ. It would be tough for either franchise to trade these guys, but they are both rebuilding and MIN’s package has the most value to a rebuilding team. Maybe you could add MPJ to the list, if DEN was getting worried about paying him in two years. It wouldn’t surprise me though if all three players were off the table. I don’t have enough faith yet in Devonte Graham or Bagley.

It might give trademakers here a few new targets.

[KGdaBom]

I wrote this on the trade board, in response to the question: “What could MIN get for#1, #17, and Culver?”

Keep in mind that team control is very important to Minnesota. The 1 and 17 have four years of team control and Culver has three, and even after this, they’d have RFA and Bird rights on all three players. They can’t swap this package for anyone that could walk after one year.

They also have max deals on Towns and Russell, so adding a third player with a salary north of $20 is going to be rough to field the rest of the team.

I think this package would work best for a young player starting his third year. Obviously Luka and Trae are off the table, and this package is too valuable for most of the others. Two guys that could make some sense are Shai and JJJ. It would be tough for either franchise to trade these guys, but they are both rebuilding and MIN’s package has the most value to a rebuilding team. Maybe you could add MPJ to the list, if DEN was getting worried about paying him in two years. It wouldn’t surprise me though if all three players were off the table. I don’t have enough faith yet in Devonte Graham or Bagley.

It might give trademakers here a few new targets.

I'm nowhere near impressed enough with MPJ to be offering one overall by itself. Certainly not including Culver and 17 as well. 17 and Culver I might do.

[atlantabbq99]

Would Wolves fans be interested in trading #1 for #6 and a heavily protected 1st round pick (3yr lottery protection) ?

[Baseline81]

Would Wolves fans be interested in trading #1 for #6 and a heavily protected 1st round pick (3yr lottery protection) ?

Are you trolling? I honestly ask because you seem to think moving to the first overall pick can be done by simply including a future lottery-protected pick...

For that sort of jump, it would have to unprotected, and even then, I'm not sure that gets it over the line.

[Whole Truth]

Chicago trade - (Carter Jr, Porter, #4) for (Dieng, Anderson, Allen, #2).

Minnesota trade - (Culver, #1) for (Carter JR, Utah 2022, GS 2024)

Memphis trade - (Dieng, Anderson, Allen, Utah 2022, GS 2024) for (Porter, Culver, #4)

For Minnesota -

The Utah pick is only conveyed in 2021 if in the 8-14 range. In 2022 when Utah need to find solutions for Gobert & Ingles hitting free agency, the pick is top 6 protected. Top 3 in 2023.

The 2024 GS pick is top 4 protected, top 1 in 2025, unprotected 2026, when GS's core will be mid to late 30's & potentially looking to rebuild.

Financially, with picks being zero rated, Minnesota delay the cost of the #1 pick. Cut the 10m salary hit in this Covid market while netting a young big in Carter JF to play PF/C next to Kat & future multiple pick value.

For Bulls -

They give up a young big & an expiring Porter for the #2 pick (Wiseman or Ball) & 2 young wingmen under control in Anderson & Allen for some cheap wing depth.

For Memphis -

With their team scrapping the playoffs in the first year of their rebuild, They move up the value of their future picks for Culver & the #4 to add to the core sooner than later.