2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[rtblues]

Starting to look more at volume rather than just shooting percentages, especially when looking at small sample sizes.
It's very telling in many ways.

Markus Howard averaged 47 points per 100 possessions.

Yeah, Howard is one of the only guys that actually breaks the customary scouting minimum sample size of 1,000 attempts (Howard had 1,018 three-attempts). The problem is, especially in the case of one-and-done players, small sample sizes.
Example, another heralded 3-pt shooter in this draft, Aaron Nesmith, he only had 290 3pt attempts in his college career.

Do smaller sample sizes translate? Are larger sample sizes more reliable?
In any case, it's something I'd be paying closer attention to. Especially if the Bulls could grab a guy like Markus Howard with their 2nd round pick, I'd be looking to do that.

Lastly, reaching a certain minimum level of 3s attempted is also an indicator of a player's ability to create/get shots, and a confidence to take them, and no I'm not excusing or endorsing "gunners" or the irrationally confident types, Antonio Blakeney comes to mind here...

[PlayerUp]

Wiseman, Edwards, Ball, Toppin, Adjiva. Are all going to be productive players. I hope the bulls pick one of those players. I really like Wiseman, Edwards, And Toppin. My track record with the draft is very good. I’m trying to talk myself in to Hayes but having a hard time. If he goes to the right situation maybe he can be a good starter. But if it was a case of Drafting Hayes or playing Sato I would definitely take Hayes. Hopefully Sato doesn’t see the floor next season.

Toppin has already been discussed here. His defensive liabilities and questionable shot along with his age there is a greater chance he'll be a bust than boom. There is really 0 reason to consider Toppin with Wiseman and Okongwu on the board and I doubt we go bigman this draft.

[drosereturn]

Wiseman, Edwards, Ball, Toppin, Adjiva. Are all going to be productive players. I hope the bulls pick one of those players. I really like Wiseman, Edwards, And Toppin. My track record with the draft is very good. I’m trying to talk myself in to Hayes but having a hard time. If he goes to the right situation maybe he can be a good starter. But if it was a case of Drafting Hayes or playing Sato I would definitely take Hayes. Hopefully Sato doesn’t see the floor next season.

Toppin has already been discussed here. His defensive liabilities and questionable shot along with his age there is a greater chance he'll be a bust than boom. There is really 0 reason to consider Toppin with Wiseman and Okongwu on the board and I doubt we go bigman this draft.

Toppin actually has a high floor and as much as I have Toppin tier 2, it is Wiseman who has a higher bust chance.
I dont see any bust with Toppin esp if hes getting picked mid lotto and by a strong defensive minded team so he can focus on putting up 20 and 10. The only reason Edwards, Hayes is getting hyped is because they are guards but the Bulls dont really need one unless he is elite. Toppin is a 4 but if he can play the 5 with his blocking ability, hes pretty invaluable.
Anyone getting him in after 10 is major steal actually its the best value pick from this draft.

[Grodoboldo]

I agree that Coby doesn't have great positional size/wingspan, but I though he did fine as a rookie on defense. I do not expect him to be a liability on that end going forward.

Literally alligator arms all 3 of them. White had to tryhard to make up for his 30% shooting but he can pull a Harden and decide to ignore defense like Lavine after getting that 20ppg and superstar title from Bulls fans.
I just dont understand why even bother with a 3 pg lineup when it wont work. One of them has to go period or accept 6th man and that includes both Lavine/White whoever is worse.

Lmao at posters on this board. White with his alligator arms is way better defender than Sato. Lavine is also a better defender than Sato.

Yeah, sure. We're the ones being laughed at.
Coby did fine in defense as a rookie. My point is that while the 3 PGs lineup might not work, it's not as if our other line-ups were working. We're a **** team. And as such, we should go ahead, draft the BPA and try to make it work, testing things around, even a 3 PG line-up.

[Just_Bullz]

Insert Tyrese Haliburton and roll with it. He will be the Tayshuan Prince of PGs.

Tyrese - Zach - Coby

[Jvaughn]

Wiseman, Edwards, Ball, Toppin, Adjiva. Are all going to be productive players. I hope the bulls pick one of those players. I really like Wiseman, Edwards, And Toppin. My track record with the draft is very good. I’m trying to talk myself in to Hayes but having a hard time. If he goes to the right situation maybe he can be a good starter. But if it was a case of Drafting Hayes or playing Sato I would definitely take Hayes. Hopefully Sato doesn’t see the floor next season.

Toppin has already been discussed here. His defensive liabilities and questionable shot along with his age there is a greater chance he'll be a bust than boom. There is really 0 reason to consider Toppin with Wiseman and Okongwu on the board and I doubt we go bigman this draft.

Toppin actually has a high floor and as much as I have Toppin tier 2, it is Wiseman who has a higher bust chance.
I dont see any bust with Toppin esp if hes getting picked mid lotto and by a strong defensive minded team so he can focus on putting up 20 and 10. The only reason Edwards, Hayes is getting hyped is because they are guards but the Bulls dont really need one unless he is elite. Toppin is a 4 but if he can play the 5 with his blocking ability, hes pretty invaluable.
Anyone getting him in after 10 is major steal actually its the best value pick from this draft.

What blocking ability?? He's a mediocre shot blocker. Barely a block a game for someone with his athletic profile. He's piss poor at defense by almost every measurement. Any team that's looking to play him at the 5, is going to be bottom of the league defensively. He's also a bad perimeter defender, so he's going to struggle at the 4 as well.

[gobullschi]

Wiseman, Edwards, Ball, Toppin, Adjiva. Are all going to be productive players. I hope the bulls pick one of those players. I really like Wiseman, Edwards, And Toppin. My track record with the draft is very good. I’m trying to talk myself in to Hayes but having a hard time. If he goes to the right situation maybe he can be a good starter. But if it was a case of Drafting Hayes or playing Sato I would definitely take Hayes. Hopefully Sato doesn’t see the floor next season.

Toppin has already been discussed here. His defensive liabilities and questionable shot along with his age there is a greater chance he'll be a bust than boom. There is really 0 reason to consider Toppin with Wiseman and Okongwu on the board and I doubt we go bigman this draft.

I have Toppin ahead of Okongwu. His defensive rotations are a step slow but it might be because he changed positions after a late growth spurt. The athletic tools are there. Okongwu is definitely the better defensive player but he doesn’t have an outside shot.

Either way I hope the Bulls don’t draft a big man not named Wiseman.

[TheSuzerain]

Okongwu absolutely crushes Toppin as a prospect.

[TheSuzerain]

It's kind of bizarre that Okongwu is seemingly the only prospect where people aren't willing to consider the upside case.

Whereas with someone like Deni, people go way overboard with projecting him to add so much to his game and excel at these things at the NBA level.

Meanwhile, Okgonwu is some moderate skill development away from being quite fantastic.

[gobullschi]

It's kind of bizarre that Okongwu is seemingly the only prospect where people aren't willing to consider the upside case.

Whereas with someone like Deni, people go way overboard with projecting him to add so much to his game and excel at these things at the NBA level.

Meanwhile, Okgonwu is some moderate skill development away from being quite fantastic.

I’m not a fan of drafting a big man in the top 10 unless they have elite physical traits and legit offensive skill (more than rim running, lobs, put backs). Toppin has the athletic tools and the jumper which is why he is ahead of Okongwu on my board.

That doesn’t mean Okongwu is a bad NBA prospect. He has more potential than Toppin, but I have my doubts of a big man developing offensive skills this late in his career. Look at WCJ. People projected him to be shooting threes when he was drafted and that still hasn’t happened.

Comparing Deni and Okongwu outside shooting projection is silly. Okongwu wasn’t even shooting them. At least Deni has a sample size to critic.

[MrFortune3]

There’s more draft news to pass along:

Auburn’s Isaac Okoro believes he deserves consideration for the top pick in next month’s draft, writes Adam Zagoria for Forbes. Most of the discussion has focused on Anthony Edwards, LaMelo Ball and James Wiseman, but Okoro makes a case for the Timberwolves to take him first overall. “Yes, I feel I should be the No. 1 pick because I go out every game and I compete and I give 100% effort,” Okoro said. “I’m just willing to do whatever any coaches want me to do, so I feel like me bringing a winning culture I should be the No. 1 pick.”The 6’6″ forward had an outstanding season with the Tigers, averaging 12.9 points and 4.4 rebounds per game and earning spots on the SEC’s All-Defense and All-Freshman teams, along with second team all-conference honors. He believes he would be a good complement to the talent already in place in Minnesota.

Deni Avdija is likely to become the highest draft pick ever from Israel, notes Chase Hughes of NBC Sports Washington. The 19-year-old has spent the past two seasons in the EuroLeague, and although he hasn’t put up huge numbers, he has impressed scouts enough to be considered a top-10 selection. “It’s exciting. Any time you can make history or any kind of good thing to represent the Jewish community and the state of Israel, that’s an honor for me,” Avdija said.

Ball is taking an unusual path to the NBA, but he tells Jace Frederick of the St. Paul Pioneer Press that his experiences, which included leaving high school early and playing in Lithuania and Australia, helped prepare him for the challenges ahead. “When I made that first move to Lithuania, that’s really when I grew up and stuff,” Ball said. “I realized what was going on. I wouldn’t change my journey, because it’s one of one. I like it.”

Wiseman has moved into the second slot in the latest mock draft from Sam Vecenie of The Athletic. The writer sees Wiseman developing into a Defensive Player of the Year candidate, and players and trainers who have watched him work out say he looks “phenomenal.” Vecenie still has Ball as his No. 1 pick, with Edwards, Obi Toppin and Onyeka Okongwu rounding out the top five.

https://theathletic.com/2103507/2020/10/02/2020-nba-draft-big-board-the-post-playoffs-update-featuring-a-shakeup/?source=rss

I think Wiseman is going to end up being the best player to come out of this draft class. Legit franchise player and people will question why he didn't go #1.

[MrFortune3]

It's kind of bizarre that Okongwu is seemingly the only prospect where people aren't willing to consider the upside case.

Whereas with someone like Deni, people go way overboard with projecting him to add so much to his game and excel at these things at the NBA level.

Meanwhile, Okgonwu is some moderate skill development away from being quite fantastic.

Because we already have WCJ and they would basically be the same size, same skill set, same defense, nearly same offensive issues.

People talk about Hayes because he's a play maker at PG whereas Coby is more of a shooter and scorer.

People talk about Deni because he's a solid two way player with play making ability, potential and fits a need.

People talk about Wiseman because he's going to be a C and has great defensive potential and should grow on offense.

[TheSuzerain]

It's kind of bizarre that Okongwu is seemingly the only prospect where people aren't willing to consider the upside case.

Whereas with someone like Deni, people go way overboard with projecting him to add so much to his game and excel at these things at the NBA level.

Meanwhile, Okgonwu is some moderate skill development away from being quite fantastic.

Because we already have WCJ and they would basically be the same size, same skill set, same defense, nearly same offensive issues.

People talk about Hayes because he's a play maker at PG whereas Coby is more of a shooter and scorer.

People talk about Deni because he's a solid two way player with play making ability, potential and fits a need.

People talk about Wiseman because he's going to be a C and has great defensive potential and should grow on offense.

Okongwu is an another level athletically from WCJ and this gives him significantly more ceiling/upside.

WCJ basically has to have his skills develop significantly to even be a solid starting center. Okongwu on the strength of his physical abilities alone basically has that as his floor. If Okongwu's skills develop, you have an all-star.

WCJ clearly isn't good enough to be impacting who we draft. He's an MLE center at the moment.

[PlayerUp]

Okongwu on the strength of his physical abilities alone basically has that as his floor. If Okongwu's skills develop, you have an all-star.

You could say the same thing about Okoro then who is an elite athlete with physical strength who lacks skills.

Backcourt > Frontcourt

[TheSuzerain]

Okongwu on the strength of his physical abilities alone basically has that as his floor. If Okongwu's skills develop, you have an all-star.

You could say the same thing about Okoro then who is an elite athlete with physical strength who lacks skills.

Backcourt > Frontcourt

You can't though. Athletic wings who can't do anything else don't belong in the NBA at all (basically Hutch).

College basketball was beneath Okongwu from the moment he stepped on campus. On the other hand, it seemed like the appropriate level for Okoro to be playing as he wasn't too far ahead of his collegiate peers.

Okoro is not an elite prospect at all.

[JohnnyTapwater]

Does anyone think Okongwu is the athletic freak that John Collins is because I don't see it.

[TheSuzerain]

Does anyone think Okongwu is the athletic freak that John Collins is because I don't see it.

I think he is. Far better frame/wingspan/strength than Collins. He's going to be able to bully people.

Collins is a better leaper, but Okongwu really gets up too.

[PlayerUp]

Okongwu on the strength of his physical abilities alone basically has that as his floor. If Okongwu's skills develop, you have an all-star.

You could say the same thing about Okoro then who is an elite athlete with physical strength who lacks skills.

Backcourt > Frontcourt

You can't though. Athletic wings who can't do anything else don't belong in the NBA at all (basically Hutch).

College basketball was beneath Okongwu from the moment he stepped on campus. On the other hand, it seemed like the appropriate level for Okoro to be playing as he wasn't too far ahead of his collegiate peers.

Okoro is not an elite prospect at all.

They are in similar situations though. Both elite defensively at college level, athletic, strong frames and lack skills. If Okoro has improved hit shot, handles and developed some offensive moves over last 6 months well he'll shoot up into the Top 5.

[PlayerUp]

Does anyone think Okongwu is the athletic freak that John Collins is because I don't see it.

Speaking of John Collins, in the 2nd half of his sophomore season, the guy was a monster. It's no surprise he is doing well in the NBA. Kira Lewis Jr is this years John Collins who had a phenomenal 2nd half of the NCAA season.

[MrFortune3]

It's kind of bizarre that Okongwu is seemingly the only prospect where people aren't willing to consider the upside case.

Whereas with someone like Deni, people go way overboard with projecting him to add so much to his game and excel at these things at the NBA level.

Meanwhile, Okgonwu is some moderate skill development away from being quite fantastic.

Because we already have WCJ and they would basically be the same size, same skill set, same defense, nearly same offensive issues.

People talk about Hayes because he's a play maker at PG whereas Coby is more of a shooter and scorer.

People talk about Deni because he's a solid two way player with play making ability, potential and fits a need.

People talk about Wiseman because he's going to be a C and has great defensive potential and should grow on offense.

Okongwu is an another level athletically from WCJ and this gives him significantly more ceiling/upside.

WCJ basically has to have his skills develop significantly to even be a solid starting center. Okongwu on the strength of his physical abilities alone basically has that as his floor. If Okongwu's skills develop, you have an all-star.

WCJ clearly isn't good enough to be impacting who we draft. He's an MLE center at the moment.

Okongwu is a solid prospect and he's quicker than WCJ but as a draft prospect and in terms of potential to reach their ceiling, WCJ is better.

The only thing WCJ has to develop to be a quality starting C is health. He was 0.6 rebounds away from average a double double in his 2nd season in the league.
With the focus on player development, he will be a big focal point for our team and a top notch player in the NBA.