2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

Leslie Forman · Post #1201 » by **Leslie Forman** » Tue Oct 6, 2020 9:26 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:Okongwu is a solid prospect and he's quicker than WCJ but as a draft prospect and in terms of potential to reach their ceiling, WCJ is better.

Well of course Carter has a much better chance of reaching his ceiling, it's about three feet lower.

MrFortune3 · Post #1202 » by **MrFortune3** » Tue Oct 6, 2020 9:37 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:Okongwu is a solid prospect and he's quicker than WCJ but as a draft prospect and in terms of potential to reach their ceiling, WCJ is better.

Well of course Carter has a much better chance of reaching his ceiling, it's about three feet lower.

That's just cold :lol:

I think they're similar players in terms of roster fit and what they can give you. Unless the plan is to trade Lauri or WCJ, you don't take Okongwu. That's like taking Gordon, Isaac and Mamba while you already have Vucevic and no balance to the roster.

ChettheJet · Post #1203 » by **ChettheJet** » Tue Oct 6, 2020 11:13 pm

I would say people base their low projection of Carter based on what he's done in the NBA, Any draft pick including Okongwu will look different when you've seen him play against men in the NBA and not kids in college.

Davell · Post #1204 » by **Davell** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 1:15 am

Wasserman’s latest mock had the Bulls trading down from 4 to 8 with the Knicks, picking up pick 38 and Kevin Knox. Then still got Hayes at 8.

TheSuzerain · Post #1205 » by **TheSuzerain** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 1:19 am

Davell wrote:Wasserman’s latest mock had the Bulls trading down from 4 to 8 with the Knicks, picking up pick 38 and Kevin Knox. Then still got Hayes at 8.

Trading down to still land Hayes sounds great!

But Knox and 38 is absolute trash compensation.

Jahensle · Post #1206 » by **Jahensle** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 1:22 am

Agreed. I would swap the 4th pick for their 8th/27th and swap our 44th for their 38th. We move up in the 2nd round and pick up a late 1st round pick while still having a shot at Hayes.

drosereturn · Post #1207 » by **drosereturn** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 1:57 am

MrFortune3 wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:Okongwu is a solid prospect and he's quicker than WCJ but as a draft prospect and in terms of potential to reach their ceiling, WCJ is better.

Well of course Carter has a much better chance of reaching his ceiling, it's about three feet lower.

That's just cold

I think they're similar players in terms of roster fit and what they can give you. Unless the plan is to trade Lauri or WCJ, you don't take Okongwu. That's like taking Gordon, Isaac and Mamba while you already have Vucevic and no balance to the roster.

WCJ isnt an untradeable core like your saying. He is very expendable for moving up or replacing him for Okongwu.
The Bulls can even draft Okongwu and bring him up as the 3rd big 20min garbage minutes to build up trade value.

Grodoboldo · Post #1208 » by **Grodoboldo** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 2:09 am

Davell wrote:Wasserman’s latest mock had the Bulls trading down from 4 to 8 with the Knicks, picking up pick 38 and Kevin Knox. Then still got Hayes at 8.

He must be a Knicks fan, because Knox **** sucks.

pipfan · Post #1209 » by **pipfan** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 2:20 am

Must get the 2021 Dallas pick if we move to #8

PlayerUp · Post #1210 » by **PlayerUp** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 2:54 am

#4 for #8 + Dallas Pick + #27.

I'd do this trade. The Dallas pick projected to be a lower 1st Rd Pick.

gobullschi · Post #1211 » by **gobullschi** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 2:56 am

Why the Dallas pick? Give me #8 & 2021 1st (NY)

PlayerUp · Post #1212 » by **PlayerUp** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 3:27 am

gobullschi wrote:Why the Dallas pick? Give me #8 & 2021 1st (NY)

That will never happen in this draft.

MrFortune3 · Post #1213 » by **MrFortune3** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 3:52 am

drosereturn wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:Well of course Carter has a much better chance of reaching his ceiling, it's about three feet lower.

That's just cold

I think they're similar players in terms of roster fit and what they can give you. Unless the plan is to trade Lauri or WCJ, you don't take Okongwu. That's like taking Gordon, Isaac and Mamba while you already have Vucevic and no balance to the roster.

WCJ isnt an untradeable core like your saying. He is very expendable for moving up or replacing him for Okongwu.
The Bulls can even draft Okongwu and bring him up as the 3rd big 20min garbage minutes to build up trade value.

I didn't say anything about WCJ being untradeable. My exact words were "Unless the plan is to trade Lauri or WCJ, you don't take Okongwu. That's like taking Gordon, Isaac and Mamba while you already have Vucevic and no balance to the roster."

If you take Okongwu...where is he going to play? Lauri and WCJ are going to command 30+ minutes a night each for their roles and development.
Gafford got over 14 mpg as a rookie, Thad was getting just under 25. If you eliminate Felicio and Kornet then that would free up almost 32 minutes a game, but OPJ if healthy is likely to get 30+. Assuming Gafford is getting around 20 mintutes, OPJ gets 30, that would leave around 19 minutes a game.
From a developmental standpoint, you have to trade either WCJ or Lauri to make that work. If you trade Thad, that would free up starter level minutes for Okongwu. But now you once again have to find a way to develop him, defensively he will be fine, offensively is where he is going to need the most work and he will need the ball to do that.
Lauri and WCJ also need the ball to help get their development back on track. You can't just take 3 young bigs, 4 if you include Gafford and say "Hey. let's put them all together and play them minutes and see what shakes out".
Now the exception to that is if the player has franchise altering potential. Okongwu does not. So you don't make that move.

MrFortune3 · Post #1214 » by **MrFortune3** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 3:54 am

Davell wrote:Wasserman’s latest mock had the Bulls trading down from 4 to 8 with the Knicks, picking up pick 38 and Kevin Knox. Then still got Hayes at 8.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug. No way that even happens. AK will laugh them off the phone.

gobullschi · Post #1215 » by **gobullschi** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 4:28 am

MrFortune3 wrote:
Davell wrote:Wasserman’s latest mock had the Bulls trading down from 4 to 8 with the Knicks, picking up pick 38 and Kevin Knox. Then still got Hayes at 8.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug. No way that even happens. AK will laugh them off the phone.

Maybe RJ Hampton

gobullschi · Post #1216 » by **gobullschi** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 4:33 am

PlayerUp wrote:
gobullschi wrote:Why the Dallas pick? Give me #8 & 2021 1st (NY)

That will never happen in this draft.

Then it’s not worth it. 2 late firsts to move up to 4 is pathetic value. Add a 1st Round pick swap & it’s closer.

MrFortune3 · Post #1217 » by **MrFortune3** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 4:50 am

gobullschi wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
Davell wrote:Wasserman’s latest mock had the Bulls trading down from 4 to 8 with the Knicks, picking up pick 38 and Kevin Knox. Then still got Hayes at 8.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug. No way that even happens. AK will laugh them off the phone.

Maybe RJ Hampton

You mean RJ Barrett?

gobullschi · Post #1218 » by **gobullschi** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 5:00 am

MrFortune3 wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
Cocaine is a hell of a drug. No way that even happens. AK will laugh them off the phone.

Maybe RJ Hampton

You mean RJ Barrett?

Can’t see Hayes falling past Detroit. RJ Hampton was interviewed by the Bulls, which could be a signal that he’s a target in a trade down scenario, but it’s more likely AK just doing his due diligence.

I would gladly take Barrett tho

MrFortune3 · Post #1219 » by **MrFortune3** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 5:08 am

gobullschi wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
Maybe RJ Hampton

You mean RJ Barrett?

Can’t see Hayes falling past Detroit. RJ Hampton was interviewed by the Bulls, which could be a signal that he’s a target in a trade down scenario, but it’s more likely AK just doing his due diligence.

I would gladly take Barrett tho

Hampton isn't even projected as a top 10 pick. Why would they trade out of #4 down to #8 to take Hampton?
He's more along the lines of a pick between #14 and #22 that you trade back into the 1st for to take as a extra 1st rounder.

Southpaw · Post #1220 » by **Southpaw** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 5:11 am

I feel like Wiseman is gonna be the best player in this draft and the chance he reaches his ceiling increases if the Warriors draft him. I wonder how much it would cost to trade up.

Who do you want?