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[PrimzyBulls81]

Jimmy was tired and they had no solution on offense again in 4th Q, they missed Dragic badly.
LeBron, Rondo and AD played to their strengths and with experiance.

[TheStig]

There's very little point to Robinson and Herro if they can't make a flipping shot. Well, maybe the second half ... but I've been waiting 3 1/2 games in the Finals now for these guys, and they haven't yet showed up.

Even if they are missing, they'll always keep the defense honest and make things easier for Jimmy and Bam.

And their only other guard, Nunn, was absolutely dreadful tonight.

[TheStig]

It's a shame they decided to do the finals every other day. You can clearly tell that Jimmy is really tired.

[johnnyvann840]

All those people saying the Heat were a really deep team and that's why they were winning…nah. It's Jimmy and Bam and a bunch of random nobodies with Dragic out.

Jimmy was completely worn out. He has to do all the ballhandling, and guard LeBron, and play help defense to make up for all the terrible defense from Herro/Robinson/Nunn/Olynyk. I'm still not really sure how a team playing those four guys in their top 7-8 is somehow even in the Finals right now. It's kind of insane.

Exactly

[Jeffster81]

Lakers are not going to care but when the win this title it will be the least respected and memorable of the Lakers franchise and James career. People will say, "oh yeah, they did win that year. I forgot about it." Basically, if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound. Of course it does but who gives a crap.

I will say this, if NBA starts the new season before 2021, the Lakers will have VERY little time to celebrate. I really hope the season starts around XMas because that would give Lil Bitch Goat and the Lakers roughly a 1 month and half to enjoy their "off-season" before training camp starts back up.

[ZOMG]

All those people saying the Heat were a really deep team and that's why they were winning…nah. It's Jimmy and Bam and a bunch of random nobodies with Dragic out.

Jimmy was completely worn out. He has to do all the ballhandling, and guard LeBron, and play help defense to make up for all the terrible defense from Herro/Robinson/Nunn/Olynyk. I'm still not really sure how a team playing those four guys in their top 7-8 is somehow even in the Finals right now. It's kind of insane.

Jimmy is EXACTLY in the role he wants.

Sometimes it comes back to bite him.

[dougthonus]

I read this in an unconvincing tone and the general scepticism still reads through. I'd appreciate it if you take this more seriously and deliver a more optimistic message.

LeBron actually has a history of choking in big moments, and it would literally be the greatest thing since the 2011 finals if he were to lose. Anthony Davis could theoretically bail him out, but he's never done anything in the playoffs before, and it wouldn't be a surprise if the moment is too big for him either. One more win by Miami tonight, and the pressure on those guys will be overwhelming, and they could easily break.

Better. Much better.

Well it didn't turn out that way, but glad we had hope for a couple days there The Heat did come closer than I expected in game 4, will be interesting to see if they fold or come out hard in game 5. I could see them winning game 5, they don't look like a team that will drop the rope. Just not talented enough.

[Ice Man]

Nobody on the Heat could score on LeBron and Davis, and nobody on the Lakers could score on Butler and Bam. So the offenses were constantly setting screens, trying to isolate defenders they could score on.

It's curious that Butler had a prime Scottie Pippen game of 22/10/9 on 8-17 shooting with 3 steals and unbeatable defense. yet people are suggesting that he wasn't good enough because he was tired. I don't know what to make of that.

[Ice Man]

Even if they are missing, they'll always keep the defense honest and make things easier for Jimmy and Bam.

I gotta admit, the Heat could really use Zach LaVine. Tyler Herro is supposed to be that guy, and probably will be, but he's not there yet.

Edit: Well of course, and more likely than LaVine, Goran would have helped too.

[Michael Jackson]

Nobody on the Heat could score on LeBron and Davis, and nobody on the Lakers could score on Butler and Bam. So the offenses were constantly setting screens, trying to isolate defenders they could score on.

It's curious that Butler had a prime Scottie Pippen game of 22/10/9 on 8-17 shooting with 3 steals and unbeatable defense. yet people are suggesting that he wasn't good enough because he was tired. I don't know what to make of that.

Jimmy isn’t good enough unless he out preforms career numbers by Jordan. That stat line is paltry and the on,y way Jimmy remains in the NBA is if he outperforms Mike every night.

[Ice Man]

Jimmy isn’t good enough unless he out preforms career numbers by Jordan. That stat line is paltry and the on,y way Jimmy remains in the NBA is if he outperforms Mike every night.

I don't think it's intentional with this group. There are Jimmy bashers on this board, but they're not here, for this conversation. Rather, I think it's a bit of compartmentalization. The expectations are that Butler can and should, if he plays well, do things that Scottie Pippen could not, even as just about everybody thinks that Pippen was clearly and obviously the better player. There's a logical inconsistency.

[Mech Engineer]

Nobody on the Heat could score on LeBron and Davis, and nobody on the Lakers could score on Butler and Bam. So the offenses were constantly setting screens, trying to isolate defenders they could score on.

It's curious that Butler had a prime Scottie Pippen game of 22/10/9 on 8-17 shooting with 3 steals and unbeatable defense. yet people are suggesting that he wasn't good enough because he was tired. I don't know what to make of that.

Jimmy isn’t good enough unless he out preforms career numbers by Jordan. That stat line is paltry and the on,y way Jimmy remains in the NBA is if he outperforms Mike every night.

He is not Harden or Lillard who take a bunch of nobodies to the finals. He is not Lebron who usually has allstars in their prime playing with him. Well, he is not MJ become he doesn't have a Pippen/Rodman on his team.

The guy is literally playing with the best complimentary offensive weapon being a 20 year old rookie against a team of veterans and 2 top 5 players.

They do need another playmaker/scorer like Dragic.

[Mech Engineer]

Even if they are missing, they'll always keep the defense honest and make things easier for Jimmy and Bam.

I gotta admit, the Heat could really use Zach LaVine. Tyler Herro is supposed to be that guy, and probably will be, but he's not there yet.

Edit: Well of course, and more likely than LaVine, Goran would have helped too.

Dragic was the release valve for Jimmy. I would say he is more valuable than Bam in a way because Bam needs to improve on his jumpshot. You can sag off him and you can't do the same with AD.

[troza]

Nobody on the Heat could score on LeBron and Davis, and nobody on the Lakers could score on Butler and Bam. So the offenses were constantly setting screens, trying to isolate defenders they could score on.

It's curious that Butler had a prime Scottie Pippen game of 22/10/9 on 8-17 shooting with 3 steals and unbeatable defense. yet people are suggesting that he wasn't good enough because he was tired. I don't know what to make of that.

Jimmy isn’t good enough unless he out preforms career numbers by Jordan. That stat line is paltry and the on,y way Jimmy remains in the NBA is if he outperforms Mike every night.

He is not Harden or Lillard who take a bunch of nobodies to the finals. He is not Lebron who usually has allstars in their prime playing with him. Well, he is not MJ become he doesn't have a Pippen/Rodman on his team.

The guy is literally playing with the best complimentary offensive weapon being a 20 year old rookie against a team of veterans and 2 top 5 players.

They do need another playmaker/scorer like Dragic.

I agree with this but the point is that for him to be the best player on the team, his numbers aren't a big deal for 2020 standards.

I still think he is an amazing leader and that the teams he has been on were better with him. Here is one guy that, for me, shows that numbers aren't it all.

[Mech Engineer]

Jimmy isn’t good enough unless he out preforms career numbers by Jordan. That stat line is paltry and the on,y way Jimmy remains in the NBA is if he outperforms Mike every night.

He is not Harden or Lillard who take a bunch of nobodies to the finals. He is not Lebron who usually has allstars in their prime playing with him. Well, he is not MJ become he doesn't have a Pippen/Rodman on his team.

The guy is literally playing with the best complimentary offensive weapon being a 20 year old rookie against a team of veterans and 2 top 5 players.

They do need another playmaker/scorer like Dragic.

I agree with this but the point is that for him to be the best player on the team, his numbers aren't a big deal for 2020 standards.

I still think he is an amazing leader and that the teams he has been on were better with him. Here is one guy that, for me, shows that numbers aren't it all.

That's the point. He is showing that the standard way they measured numbers doesn't make sense and that's why Westbrook's numbers are less impactful than similar numbers from Lebron or Jimmy. The game has changed and the well publicized numbers in general don't measure that.

The bottom line is he impacts winning and that's all you need from a star. The other things like the cast, scheme are not under his control. He obviously needs another all-star wing or PF like AD to help him out. Bam might get there but he is not there yet.

Even one of those guys on Boston like Tatum, Brown, Kemba, Hayward would have helped the Heat.

[othawhitemeat]

Even if they are missing, they'll always keep the defense honest and make things easier for Jimmy and Bam.

I gotta admit, the Heat could really use Zach LaVine. Tyler Herro is supposed to be that guy, and probably will be, but he's not there yet.

Edit: Well of course, and more likely than LaVine, Goran would have helped too.

Zach Lavine on that team in place of Herro and I believe the Heat are at least tied in the series. Herro will be good, but Zach offensively would just be destroying teams off of the Heat's ball movement and Jimmy/BAM passing.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I dont even see how the Thunder want Kevin Knox. Hes horrible. They obviously haevnt been watching the Knicks the past 2 years but no one else has either lol

If they think Knox is a player maybe we can sell Felicio being a great young center of the future.

[Ice Man]

I am firmly, completely in the camp of Butler = Pippen.

Butler, 2020 playoffs - 22/6/6, 2 steals, 3 turnovers, 61% TS$, nobody scores on him
Pippen, 1994 playoffs - 23/8/5, 2 steals, 4 turnovers, 52% TS%, nobody scores on him

Scottie was somewhat higher volume when you adjust for the lower-scoring league, but Jimmy the more efficient scorer, even after also adjusting for different times. Otherwise very similar.

You can win a title with that guy as your best player, but it really helps to have another 20+ point scorer next to him. The '94 Bulls didn't have that for Scottie and with Goran out the Heat don't have that for Butler. Which makes the offense dicey, because you can't count on Butler/Pippen to score 30+. They will do it on occasion, but it's not a regular thing. (Indeed, Pippen's high in the 7 games against the Knicks was 25 points.)

[Ice Man]

Zach Lavine on that team in place of Herro and I believe the Heat are at least tied in the series. Herro will be good, but Zach offensively would just be destroying teams off of the Heat's ball movement and Jimmy/BAM passing.

I agree. Herro is very promising for a 20 year old, but he has overhyped because he's the new toy. His good offensive games are Zach's routine offensive games.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Another thing on the game last night, I actually think Bam returning hurt the Heat.

With Bam coming back, it plays to the Lakers strengths. On top of that, it totally clogs up the lane for Jimmy.

As we have seen with Kelly Olynyk he scored 24 and then 17 thats still more than Bam scored. Bam with 15/7 while limiting Jimmy is not going to beat the Lakers.

I think with Kelly Olynyk or Lenard out there, it creates the space for Jimmy or whomever to work.

AD had 4 big blocks last night because he wasnt sitting at the 3pt line trying to guard Olynyk.