2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT)

[RHODEY]

Smart teams do sign players like Mitch. They just sign players like him to very cheap contracts.

However, there are a few caveats.

1) Mitch is younger and has more potential. More importantly, he has switchability and the potential to hit 3s. That gives him a lot more value than a traditional rim protector. Brook Lopez is basically a stiff rim protector but he's getting paid for his 3. And switchability...we don't see a lot of that in this league. At worst, the Warriors get a competent rim protector that can play C and save Draymond wear and tear during the regular season. At most, the Warriors develop him into a stud.

2) Mitch is also young AND established. If you're the Warriors, you're looking to maximize your window with Steph and Klay and Dray. At the very least, you know that Mitch can play. The fact that Mitch can lead the league in field goal percentage playing with the likes of Randle and Elfrid...imagine if you had Steph's gravity with Mitch's hops? And then consider that they can get Mitch with someone like Vassell or take a swing at another player? That's Steph - Klay - Vassell - Dray - Mitch. Shooting up and down the lineup. Defense up and down the lineup. Guys who know their roles, etc.

From my end, I wouldn't trade the 8 with Mitch just to move up to 2. We talk about how we haven't put Randle in the right position to succeed, but I think we should be prioritizing putting Mitch in the right position to succeed first. If we're trading Mitch, I want something substantial. If I'm the Warriors, I'm considering hitting up the Pacers first and offering the 2 for Myles Turner straight up.

Miles inst even the best centerthat team, is that good enough for the 2?

Think that's an irrelevant point. Myles would be the 2nd best center on the Sixers, Heat, Nuggets, etc. It only depends on how god Myles is, and I have a good opinion of him. Maybe others don't...willing to listen.

I guess you could make the point that the Warriors might ask for Sabonis first, but don't think Pacers would listen. I don't think the 2 in this draft is as valuable as years past...it's not getting an all star, but an above average player is doable.

I think its relevant when you consider Sabonis is nowhere near as good as the top centers from the teams you named. The Warriors will be looking for the best talent availble, your high opinion of Turner might be irrelevant to them...

[-YogiBiz-]

Miles inst even the best centerthat team, is that good enough for the 2?

Think that's an irrelevant point. Myles would be the 2nd best center on the Sixers, Heat, Nuggets, etc. It only depends on how god Myles is, and I have a good opinion of him. Maybe others don't...willing to listen.

I guess you could make the point that the Warriors might ask for Sabonis first, but don't think Pacers would listen. I don't think the 2 in this draft is as valuable as years past...it's not getting an all star, but an above average player is doable.

I think its relevant when you consider Sabonis is nowhere near as good as the top centers from the teams you named. The Warriors will be looking for the best talent availble, your high opinion of Turner might be irrelevant to them...

Turner is pretty switchable. And he can hit the three pretty well too for a big. He really needs to just go by his initials and be MC Turner. It's the only way he reaches true stardom.

[KnicksGadfly]

Miles inst even the best centerthat team, is that good enough for the 2?

Think that's an irrelevant point. Myles would be the 2nd best center on the Sixers, Heat, Nuggets, etc. It only depends on how god Myles is, and I have a good opinion of him. Maybe others don't...willing to listen.

I guess you could make the point that the Warriors might ask for Sabonis first, but don't think Pacers would listen. I don't think the 2 in this draft is as valuable as years past...it's not getting an all star, but an above average player is doable.

I think its relevant when you consider Sabonis is nowhere near as good as the top centers from the teams you named. The Warriors will be looking for the best talent availble, your high opinion of Turner might be irrelevant to them...

I think we're pretty much hitting on a same point, that it only matters what the Warriors think.

I just think your point about Turner being the 2nd best center on his team makes zero sense. Simply put, if you put him on some teams in the league (like the Hornets), he'd be the best center on that team. And if you put him on other teams, he'd be the second best center. But that doesn't matter. All that matters is what the Warriors objectively value him as. So yea, your point about him being the 2nd best center on the Pacers matters jack ****.

Now if you said, I think Sabonis is an average center, and why would the Warriors trade the 2nd pick for Myles, who is worse than an average center and paid more, then the argument comes down to how good Myles is. And in that case, I'd see your point.

[Cookies4Life]

I wish somehow all the players eligible for the draft could meet in one area to do private workouts for teams.

It's a bit concerning the only screening processes for these kids who haven't played organized basketball in over a half year will be video conferences where teams won't be able to see their actual on court play and if any of them have continued with their development.

[HEZI]

I wish somehow all the players eligible for the draft could meet in one area to do private workouts for teams.

It's a bit concerning the only screening processes for these kids who haven't played organized basketball in over a half year will be video conferences where teams won't be able to see their actual on court play and if any of them have continued with their development.

Impact has been uploading workouts daily on youtube. They have had quite a few guys workout there

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1NnpExUD627ny7prIzQqXA/videos

[thebuzzardman]

Makes perfect sense that D'Antoni goes to the Pacers, Rivers goes to the 76ers, and the Knicks wind up being on the outside looking in on various trades, getting LaMelo etc.

Just for once it would nice if the Knicks could get to the level of talent and respectability that they'd even be able to get IN on trades to make a difference to them, make them better.

Probably Rose and WWW wind up dry humping for a couple of years as the league has passed them by, and then they make some panic move for some washed up POS in year 3.

Good times.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Hayes is probably the better play if we are looking to move up. Can probably get him for a fraction of the cost of moving up to #2...or possibly we may not even have to move up.

[3toheadmelo]

Is it really though? Keep those 2021 picks.

Lamelo/CP3
Frank/—-
RJ/Iggy
Randle/Wooten
Steven Adams/—-

to this i would say, if we got lamelo we don't need cp3. if you're bringing him in as a mentor there are better and cheaper options available that don't involve us giving up assets to bring them in. I don't even think we need one though. just run lamelo out there and get ready for 2021

Did somebody say mentor?

[RHODEY]

Think that's an irrelevant point. Myles would be the 2nd best center on the Sixers, Heat, Nuggets, etc. It only depends on how god Myles is, and I have a good opinion of him. Maybe others don't...willing to listen.

I guess you could make the point that the Warriors might ask for Sabonis first, but don't think Pacers would listen. I don't think the 2 in this draft is as valuable as years past...it's not getting an all star, but an above average player is doable.

I think its relevant when you consider Sabonis is nowhere near as good as the top centers from the teams you named. The Warriors will be looking for the best talent availble, your high opinion of Turner might be irrelevant to them...

I think we're pretty much hitting on a same point, that it only matters what the Warriors think.

I just think your point about Turner being the 2nd best center on his team makes zero sense. Simply put, if you put him on some teams in the league (like the Hornets), he'd be the best center on that team. And if you put him on other teams, he'd be the second best center. But that doesn't matter. All that matters is what the Warriors objectively value him as. So yea, your point about him being the 2nd best center on the Pacers matters jack ****.

Now if you said, I think Sabonis is an average center, and why would the Warriors trade the 2nd pick for Myles, who is worse than an average center and paid more, then the argument comes down to how good Myles is. And in that case, I'd see your point.

Sabonis is an above average Center. Turners is not as good as him. I dont think the Warriors would give up the 2nd pick for him.

[god shammgod]

Makes perfect sense that D'Antoni goes to the Pacers, Rivers goes to the 76ers, and the Knicks wind up being on the outside looking in on various trades, getting LaMelo etc.

Just for once it would nice if the Knicks could get to the level of talent and respectability that they'd even be able to get IN on trades to make a difference to them, make them better.

Probably Rose and WWW wind up dry humping for a couple of years as the league has passed them by, and then they make some panic move for some washed up POS in year 3.

Good times.

i don't know what one thing has to do with the other. also, did the pacers hire d'antoni ?

[3toheadmelo]

Gobert has a max salary, he's due for a supermax as well, not making it to the final four is pretty much the point. You save that kind of money for centers that can create offense at an elite level, even Bam who is levels above Mitch is going to need a jumper to reach the next level. And because of Gobert's own lack of offense they had to play 4 perimeter players with him this year, they weren't even a top 10 defensive team as a result.


I don't really care if Mitch is an impact player on a bad team, rim runners shouldn't be getting $18 million per year. We have like a decade's worth of examples now, it's not exactly like we don't know how they're defended. I'm not pointing to the Rockets formula as a build to copy, I'm pointing out how they exposed Steven Adams, or how the Celtics made it to the ECF with their center making $5 million for the year, Bam is on a rookie deal, Dwight is on a vet deal etc etc.

I just can't understand how people don't see it, Wiseman is projected as being an offensive minded center, so yes I'd want him over Mitch. This is like talking about keeping an Ipod when the Iphone 4 was already out, where the league is going is pretty clear, and rim rolling centers are the running backs of the NBA.

I think Mitch's deal will be closer to Capela than Gobert, but all 3 are similar players in terms of rim protection and offensive efficiency.

Sure Adams had a bad playoff series, but conversely Gobert was great. it can go both ways

Wiseman is PROJECTED to be an offensive minded C, however, have we even seen him knock down 3's in games? it's a projection just like some are projecting Mitch will be able to shoot this season

of the 4 teams that made the conference finals, 2 of the Centers were offensive minded: Bam (great 2-way) and Jokic. both are excellent passers, something that Wiseman is not.

Average passer who shows questionable instincts

-ESPN https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable

I don't want Mitch at a Capella number, no offensively limited C is worth more than $14 million, and even that is pushing it. Almost everyone who wants to keep Mitch long term has all these ideas that he'll become a good shooter, a good passer or a poor man's Giannis, because everyone deep down knows that if he stays a rim runner it's limiting.


Gobert was great? He's a 2x DPOY and the guy he was guarding averaged 26ppg on 48% FG, he got pulled from the basket and couldn't even take it to a bad defender on the other end. He had a good game 7, but saying he was great is a big stretch, especially when you consider how much he makes.

Wiseman has solid form on his shot, good hands, flashes a really nice turn around jumper, and is a good freethrow shooter. I bet he hits more jumpers in the first week of his career than Mitch makes all year too.

Yeah I mean there’s a drastic difference in Wiseman’s shot and Mitch’s. Wiseman’s shot looks like Bosh and he can even hit shots off the dribble. It’s not a reach at all to say he’s going to be a threat on offense.

Read on Twitter

Wiseman even hit more jumpers in college than Mitch has hit the past 2 years lol

[god shammgod]

oh great. finally we're getting to this wiseman vs mitch debate. about time we tackled that.

[RHODEY]

Hayes is probably the better play if we are looking to move up. Can probably get him for a fraction of the cost of moving up to #2...or possibly we may not even have to move up.

Right and listening to various podcasts I dont get a solid answer on whether the Knicks would trade up for Hayes. The vague answer is no due due to ... "politics" or lack of interest? Or perhaps the Knicks are interested and are just holding their cards close to vest.

[Context]

oh great. finally we're getting to this wiseman vs mitch debate. about time we tackled that.

[HEZI]

This guy was cooking Malachi Flynn in workouts and now I know why

Watch on YouTube

[Deeeez Knicks]

Hayes is probably the better play if we are looking to move up. Can probably get him for a fraction of the cost of moving up to #2...or possibly we may not even have to move up.

Right and listening to various podcasts I dont get a solid answer on whether the Knicks would trade up for Hayes. The vague answer is no due due to ... "politics" or lack of interest? Or perhaps the Knicks are interested and are just holding their cards close to vest.

Yea, I think the Knicks are holding their cards close and people are just guessing. Every other day its a different rumor..between signings, trades and the draft. Just about every scenario has been covered

[3toheadmelo]

oh great. finally we're getting to this wiseman vs mitch debate. about time we tackled that.

Watch on YouTube

[stuporman]

If Melo is that transcendental generational player, one that is the engine of winning teams like LeBron, Kawai, Curry then yea, 8 and Mitch may in hindsight be worth it. Though, we don't know if his career is maybe only a little better than his brother then no it isn't worth it.

Is he a superstar or just a good to very good role player? What if he's a third best 'star' on a winning team, not the lead one? Who knows? If the Knicks have the chance to make that deal can the new FO risk the next few years on that experiment? Can they risk not doing it if there to do?

Balls and all of it may be a terrible move or a franchise making one.

Do you do it?

well for one if you knew he was a transcendental generational player like LeBron, Kawhi, Curry, I think it's an understatement to say "8 and Mitch may in hindsight be worth it", who wouldn't trade 8 and Mitch for one of those players? it would be a historic heist. Now not to bash him but to me Mitch isn't looking like more than a pretty solid role player at best, perhaps not even a starter or someone you can count on to close a game, and could the 8th pick really be anything great in this draft? I'd do the deal in a snap. Even if he wasn't a generational player but a franchise cornerstone starting PG or even just an above average NBA PG it would be worth it. Worst case scenario he is a total bust and we lost our backup center over it, still worth the gamble.

If he's just an above average NBA PG then I'd rather have Kira and Mitch than him.... Kira has as much of a chance to be an above average NBA PG too so why lose one of the few good things the Knicks have done recently to get just an above average PG?

Also you are already underselling Mitch as he is today let alone your lackluster projection of his potential so your opinions seem pretty sus

[Deeeez Knicks]

Wiseman shot 55% from FT and 14.8% from 3 in HS/EYBL. 0-1 from 3 in college. Dude is far from a proven shooter.

[stuporman]

Makes perfect sense that D'Antoni goes to the Pacers, Rivers goes to the 76ers, and the Knicks wind up being on the outside looking in on various trades, getting LaMelo etc.

Just for once it would nice if the Knicks could get to the level of talent and respectability that they'd even be able to get IN on trades to make a difference to them, make them better.

Probably Rose and WWW wind up dry humping for a couple of years as the league has passed them by, and then they make some panic move for some washed up POS in year 3.

Good times.

very nagative....