2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT)

[god shammgod]

every once in awhile buzz hits like a 10 on the fatalistic dread meter. today is one of those days. lol

[3toheadmelo]

https://theathletic.com/2116444/2020/10/08/lets-fire-up-the-trade-machine-for-the-knicks-and-see-what-we-can-pull-off/

me looking at melo when mitch is still here and dennis and randle are traded

Your boy Trier couldn't even last longer in the NBA than DSJ/Frank. Get outta here

the turkey story was false

Yeah but no NBA team wants him. Brooklyn even signed Lance Thomas over him

[Chanel Bomber]

Mitch and RJ are the only two players on the roster that I like. I couldn’t care less about the other guys, in fact they can all go or burn in hell in some cases.

Difference between Mitch and Rudy/DAJ is Mitch’s ability to defend on the perimeter. Y’all drooling over AD’s defense in the Finals only to hate on Young Pterodactyl two posts later when he’s arguably the only player in the league who can replicate that, it makes no God damn sense.

[god shammgod]

Your boy Trier couldn't even last longer in the NBA than DSJ/Frank. Get outta here

the turkey story was false

Yeah but no NBA team wants him. Brooklyn even signed Lance Thomas over him

he wasn't eligible for the playoffs

[Manhattan Project]

The f*ck is happening in this thread?

[3toheadmelo]

the turkey story was false

Yeah but no NBA team wants him. Brooklyn even signed Lance Thomas over him

he wasn't eligible for the playoffs

Nobody claimed him off waivers cause he sucks

[KnicksGadfly]

And the Knicks max out Randle with a 5 year deal

You've gone too far you sick pervert!

[TheGreenArrow]

GB send to mostly think Knicks packaging Mitch and 8 for 2 is a good deal for us

It's true. One of them even said what most Knicks fans don't want to hear.

If their intention is to draft Wiseman, they should definitely do it. Mitchell Robinson is a nice player with potential but he's always going to be limited on the offensive end. Mitchell would be a nice complementary player on a winning team, but he's a DeAndre Jordan or Rudy Gobert at best. The Knicks seriously need someone to build around and Wiseman is the only guy in the top three that I see superstar potential in. Wiseman has a lot of work to do right now, but he has the potential to be an elite two-way player

[RHODEY]

GB send to mostly think Knicks packaging Mitch and 8 for 2 is a good deal for us

It's true. One of them even said what most Knicks fans don't want to hear.

If their intention is to draft Wiseman, they should definitely do it. Mitchell Robinson is a nice player with potential but he's always going to be limited on the offensive end. Mitchell would be a nice complementary player on a winning team, but he's a DeAndre Jordan or Rudy Gobert at best. The Knicks seriously need someone to build around and Wiseman is the only guy in the top three that I see superstar potential in. Wiseman has a lot of work to do right now, but he has the potential to be an elite two-way player

[thebuzzardman]

And throw a bag of money at Elfrid Payton.

none of this phases me. losing all hope is freedom

[knickstape4ever]

GB send to mostly think Knicks packaging Mitch and 8 for 2 is a good deal for us

It's true. One of them even said what most Knicks fans don't want to hear.

If their intention is to draft Wiseman, they should definitely do it. Mitchell Robinson is a nice player with potential but he's always going to be limited on the offensive end. Mitchell would be a nice complementary player on a winning team, but he's a DeAndre Jordan or Rudy Gobert at best. The Knicks seriously need someone to build around and Wiseman is the only guy in the top three that I see superstar potential in. Wiseman has a lot of work to do right now, but he has the potential to be an elite two-way player

but he's a DeAndre Jordan or Rudy Gobert at best

...so a pretty damn good player?

[stuporman]

I am assuming you never watched a Knicks game the past 2 years. Mitch’s FG% is high because he only does wide open dunks.
Deandre Jordan also had averaged 71% FG in one season. Pretty sure no one here thinks Jordan can hit jumpers. So your take shows -100 intelligence

Do the points off dunks count on the scoreboard?

I don't see anyone suggesting he will become a long range sniper overnight but to say the havoc a guy who crashes the rim as effectively and score the points as efficiently as he does isn't offense is nonsense.

...and thank you, I know my take is 100% intelligence because..... it's 100%.

It's not nonsense, guys who can't create offense for themselves are a liability when it matters and if crashing the rim is your main mode of generating offense chances are your team is going to lose in the playoffs. His shot profile looks almost exactly like every other rim runners, nearly 70% of his shots are assisted. He shot a high percentage sure, but he was also going against primarily second units.

Rudy Gobert shot 69% against starters, nobody would ever say he causes havoc on offense. We should look at the playoffs as a predictor of the future, last year the Raptors won using a box and 1 zone, this year the Heat made it to the finals with a 2-3 zone. Bigs are going to need to be able to do more than just rim roll soon, it's a copycat league and teams with bad individual defenders are going to start using zones more.

You're moving the goalposts. I responded to a nonsense idea that Mitch is 0 offense so changing the point doesn't discredit my comment .

Whether Mitch would be useful in the playoffs is not what I was speaking to and it is something to consider but your point that any player that doesn't create their own offense is a liability lacks context.

Maybe you meant something else but not every player is going to be able to create their own shot or offense and that doesn't necessarily mean they are a liability if they don't .

[knickstape4ever]

pretty much. we are letting perfect be the enemy of good. anthony davis isn't coming through that door fans and wiseman ain't him either

this is perfectly said

[Cookies4Life]

I'm perplexed by some of these takes on MItchell Robinson.

He started basketball at a late age and didn't play a single game in college. Since he's been in the league, the coaches haven't maximized his game on the offensive end and we haven't had average level PG play. This team can barely operate a basic pick and roll.

I'm surprised he's been as productive as he's been given our roster turnover the past 2 seasons and the extremely questionable offseason signings last year. I still don't understand why Gibson starts over him; Mitchell showed in the last half of his rookie season that he can limit his foul issues yet for some reason they decided to start Gibson over him and forced Mitchell to come off the bench. He ended up being foul prone in his sophomore season but just like his rookie year his foul woes decreased as the season went along.

Let's get competent PG play here before we put the nail in the coffin of Robinson's career. When Allonzo Trier is efficiently running the PnR with MItchell, that's all you need to know about how piss poor the PG play has been for a few seasons.

I don't like the Denadre or Gobert comparisons- MItchell can cover the perimeter and in situational schemes, he can cover all 5 positions. And lest we forget, the guy has an incredible motor, something I don't see from Jordan or Gobert. He has arguably the best motor for any big man in the league and we're talking about him like he doesn't have DPOY potential.

If they max him at those numbers of about 13 million per year, that would be a steal. Let him start next season with a PG that actually knows how to maximize his potential on the offensive end and we're talking about a 15+ ppg scorer easily. He's also a demon on the offensive boards and obviously an elite level shotblocker.

His game isn't antiquated whatsoever, he's a very valuable piece with much room to improve on both sides of the ball.

[3toheadmelo]

GB send to mostly think Knicks packaging Mitch and 8 for 2 is a good deal for us

It's true. One of them even said what most Knicks fans don't want to hear.

If their intention is to draft Wiseman, they should definitely do it. Mitchell Robinson is a nice player with potential but he's always going to be limited on the offensive end. Mitchell would be a nice complementary player on a winning team, but he's a DeAndre Jordan or Rudy Gobert at best. The Knicks seriously need someone to build around and Wiseman is the only guy in the top three that I see superstar potential in. Wiseman has a lot of work to do right now, but he has the potential to be an elite two-way player

but he's a DeAndre Jordan or Rudy Gobert at best

...so a pretty damn good player?

A phased out player in 2020

[mpharris36]

Hollinger response to a Mitch + 8 for Poole +2

Spoiler:

Hollinger: I agree with you. The Warriors would need to put a little bit more vig into this if they would want to parlay the second pick into Robinson. I could see why this would make a lot of sense for Golden State once you consider the financial aspect. The Warriors are up to their ears in luxury tax, and Robinson will make a mere $1.6 million in 2020-21 and $1.8 million in 2021-22. Additionally, trading down to No. 8 would save the Warriors about another $4 million because of the lower salary owed later draft picks. Dropping off Jordan Poole on the Knicks’ doorstep after a rough rookie year provides another $2 million in savings ,and the Warriors could add to that by also including Kevon Looney ($4.8 million). All of that combine would make for about $10 million in direct payroll cuts, plus some ancillary savings from having Robinson’s minimum contract among your top-seven players (and presumably not needing to use exception money on same). Add in the luxury tax penalties the Warriors face and that puts the total savings in the $40 million range.

But the Knicks wouldn’t be doing a trade like this just to be nice to the Warriors and save them some money. Dropping off Robinson just to jump to No. 2 in a draft without a sure thing is an overpay on New York’s part.

The good news is that the Warriors’ first-round pick in 2021 becomes trade-eligible as soon as the current draft ends. That means the Knicks and Warriors could agree to a trade and then execute it on draft night (this is common) to include an additional first-round pick.

Moreover, the Knicks would likely try to gain some additional upside on a future pick from Golden State by “reverse protecting it” and pushing the obligation to 2022 if it doesn’t fall in the top 20 picks in 2021. (They can only push it out one year, since Golden State is prohibited from trading it’s 2023 first-round pick).

Would a deal like that — Looney, Poole and the No. 2 pick for Robinson and the No. 8 pick, with an additional first from the Warriors — be more palatable from New York’s perspective?

He says GS would have to throw in another 1st round pick to make it good value for the knicks.

[robillionaire]

I'm perplexed by some of these takes on MItchell Robinson.

He started basketball at a late age and didn't play a single game in college. Since he's been in the league, the coaches haven't maximized his game on the offensive end and we haven't had average level PG play. This team can barely operate a basic pick and roll.

I'm surprised he's been as productive as he's been given our roster turnover the past 2 seasons and the extremely questionable offseason signings last year. I still don't understand why Gibson starts over him; Mitchell showed in the last half of his rookie season that he can limit his foul issues yet for some reason they decided to start Gibson over him and forced Mitchell to come off the bench. He ended up being foul prone in his sophomore season but just like his rookie year his foul woes decreased as the season went along.

Let's get competent PG play here before we put the nail on the coffin of Robinson's career. When Allonzo Trier is efficiently running the PnR with MItchell, that's all you need to know about how piss poor the PG play has been for a few seasons.

I don't like the Denadre or Gobert comparisons- MItchell can cover the perimeter and in situational schemes, he can cover all 5 positions. And lest we forget, the guy has an incredible motor, something I don't see from Jordan or Gobert. He has arguably the best motor for any big man in the league and we're talking about him like he doesn't have DPOY potential.

If the max him at those numbers of about 13 million per year, that would be a steal. Let him start next season with a PG that actually knows how to maximize his potential on the offensive end and we're talking about a 15+ ppg scorer easily. He's also a demon on the offensive boards and obviously an elite level shotblocker.

yeah I agree with this. if we can get an actual point guard and with coaches like thibs and developmental guys like payne to work with these young players, maybe they can turn a corner in their progress that they wasted the past few years

[TheGreenArrow]

Hollinger response to a Mitch + 8 for Poole +2

Spoiler:

Hollinger: I agree with you. The Warriors would need to put a little bit more vig into this if they would want to parlay the second pick into Robinson. I could see why this would make a lot of sense for Golden State once you consider the financial aspect. The Warriors are up to their ears in luxury tax, and Robinson will make a mere $1.6 million in 2020-21 and $1.8 million in 2021-22. Additionally, trading down to No. 8 would save the Warriors about another $4 million because of the lower salary owed later draft picks. Dropping off Jordan Poole on the Knicks’ doorstep after a rough rookie year provides another $2 million in savings ,and the Warriors could add to that by also including Kevon Looney ($4.8 million). All of that combine would make for about $10 million in direct payroll cuts, plus some ancillary savings from having Robinson’s minimum contract among your top-seven players (and presumably not needing to use exception money on same). Add in the luxury tax penalties the Warriors face and that puts the total savings in the $40 million range.

But the Knicks wouldn’t be doing a trade like this just to be nice to the Warriors and save them some money. Dropping off Robinson just to jump to No. 2 in a draft without a sure thing is an overpay on New York’s part.

The good news is that the Warriors’ first-round pick in 2021 becomes trade-eligible as soon as the current draft ends. That means the Knicks and Warriors could agree to a trade and then execute it on draft night (this is common) to include an additional first-round pick.

Moreover, the Knicks would likely try to gain some additional upside on a future pick from Golden State by “reverse protecting it” and pushing the obligation to 2022 if it doesn’t fall in the top 20 picks in 2021. (They can only push it out one year, since Golden State is prohibited from trading it’s 2023 first-round pick).

Would a deal like that — Looney, Poole and the No. 2 pick for Robinson and the No. 8 pick, with an additional first from the Warriors — be more palatable from New York’s perspective?

He says GS would have to throw in another 1st round pick to make it good value for the knicks.

That’s a win win for both teams honestly.

[3toheadmelo]

Mitch and RJ are the only two players on the roster that I like. I couldn’t care less about the other guys, in fact they can all go or burn in hell in some cases.

Difference between Mitch and Rudy/DAJ is Mitch’s ability to defend on the perimeter. Y’all drooling over AD’s defense in the Finals only to hate on Young Pterodactyl two posts later when he’s arguably the only player in the league who can replicate that, it makes no God damn sense.

If Mitch was anything close to AD’s offense then you would have a point. But he’s not

[knickstape4ever]

It's true. One of them even said what most Knicks fans don't want to hear.

but he's a DeAndre Jordan or Rudy Gobert at best

...so a pretty damn good player?

A phased out player in 2020

lol, Rudy Gobert is not phased out

DeAndre is just older, and not good defensively anymore; he's a different story