How Good is Jimmy Butler?

[The 6ft Hurdle]

Jimmy Butler has become what Derrick Rose had been "destined" for. Who'd ever foresaw this in 2011? It really is a remarkable story.

I haven't been the most scrupulous of watchers the past 10 years, but I was definitely wrong about the ceiling of J-But. I didn't see it in a Bulls uni. (More importantly I thought that under Garpax it would go to waste anyway.)

I think all these very public losses and disputes in Minnesota and Philly helped him reach this new high. We grew him up, but he was made by those losses and what he's become in Miami is the absolute man --- almost at the Kawhi tier.

Seeing him play offense against Lebron as well as having to defend him, while driving in and icing absolutely necessary free throws, playing 47 minutes (which I initially thought was an exaggeration when I wrote it) was pretty effing amazing.

[fleet]

I was wrong.

Yes, you were.

[fleet]

I'm just gonna say it: He's better than Pippen.

He's not the playmaker or defender but he's significantly better as a scorer that it makes this a legitimate question.

Pippen will always be 'better' due to accolades, but pure peak and talent, this is an interesting talking point.

Jimmy has had the biggest heart in the NBA for awhile. Him and MJ together would have been something special too. Toughness, focus, and determination would have been GOAT for a duo.

[troza]

I'm just gonna say it: He's better than Pippen.

He's not the playmaker or defender but he's significantly better as a scorer that it makes this a legitimate question.

Pippen will always be 'better' due to accolades, but pure peak and talent, this is an interesting talking point.

Jimmy has had the biggest heart in the NBA for awhile. Him and MJ together would have been something special too. Toughness, focus, and determination would have been GOAT for a duo.

I would say that mentally he would be able to keep up with Jordan. The guy just wants to win... trash talks, big effort... just doing whatever it takes... like MJ. Although I doubt that he would be ok with Rodman's antics...

Of course for the Bulls he didnt' do as much as other players. And that's a shame.

[Ice Man]

If Danny Green's shot goes in, Jimmy would now have the record. But I'm sure that he's happier this way.

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[Mech Engineer]

Jimmy Butler has become what Derrick Rose had been "destined" for. Who'd ever foresaw this in 2011? It really is a remarkable story.

I haven't been the most scrupulous of watchers the past 10 years, but I was definitely wrong about the ceiling of J-But. I didn't see it in a Bulls uni. (More importantly I thought that under Garpax it would go to waste anyway.)

I think all these very public losses and disputes in Minnesota and Philly helped him reach this new high. We grew him up, but he was made by those losses and what he's become in Miami is the absolute man --- almost at the Kawhi tier.

Seeing him play offense against Lebron as well as having to defend him, while driving in and icing absolutely necessary free throws, playing 47 minutes (which I initially thought was an exaggeration when I wrote it) was pretty effing amazing.

No...he looked like a great player in 2015. His floor was he needed another legit top 15 Allstar to complement him. Who hasn't needed that in the history of the league? Even MJ and obviously Lebron have always needed that.

The only difference is the perception by some fans/media and bad GMs(who had more data than fans/media) since he was not the decorated one from the draft. For the Bulls fan base, it was because he was not a Derrick Rose level prospect from 2012.Even a few days back, people brought up all kinds of arguments about alpha, beta nonsense.

It took a lot for him to sell he can be a top 2 option on offense and he can make the clutch decisions. I can bet a guy like Paxson would have built around a Wiggins, Klay, Kyrie etc...in 2017 but gave up on Jimmy.

It is part perception of his physical traits, draft status, non-flashy game rather than looking at cold numbers which so many Bulls fans kept hammering about. I bet a Morey would never have traded Jimmy if he had him.

[CBS7]

Butler's supporting cast is good but not anything amazing. A decent FO could have put an equally good supporting cast around him here. Instead we got Doug McDermott. Although Spo is probably better than anyone we would have gotten.

I didn't love the trade, but justified it. I didn't think Butler was good enough to lead us anywhere. I was wrong.

[sco]

Butler's supporting cast is good but not anything amazing. A decent FO could have put an equally good supporting cast around him here. Instead we got Doug McDermott. Although Spo is probably better than anyone we would have gotten.

I didn't love the trade, but justified it. I didn't think Butler was good enough to lead us anywhere. I was wrong.

While I agree (now - duh) Jimmy is good enough to be the best guy on a contender, I still think the shortened season really helped him in the playoffs - I just don't think Jimmy is durable enough to make it all the way through a normal season and playoffs and still be near 100% at the end.

[SfBull]

Jimmy's trade looks more and more wrong as he keeps his path for being playoff's MVP.

[Mech Engineer]

Butler's supporting cast is good but not anything amazing. A decent FO could have put an equally good supporting cast around him here. Instead we got Doug McDermott. Although Spo is probably better than anyone we would have gotten.

I didn't love the trade, but justified it. I didn't think Butler was good enough to lead us anywhere. I was wrong.

While I agree (now - duh) Jimmy is good enough to be the best guy on a contender, I still think the shortened season really helped him in the playoffs - I just don't think Jimmy is durable enough to make it all the way through a normal season and playoffs and still be near 100% at the end.

He played deep last year with Philly but missed games as does everyone except Lebron. Don't you think he knows that. What is special about Kawhi when he has maintenance built in his schedule. I think that's a unfair take on Jimmy. Luka missed games. Would AD be even playing by now if it was not a shortened season?

[R3AL1TY]

Butler's supporting cast is good but not anything amazing. A decent FO could have put an equally good supporting cast around him here. Instead we got Doug McDermott. Although Spo is probably better than anyone we would have gotten.

I didn't love the trade, but justified it. I didn't think Butler was good enough to lead us anywhere. I was wrong.

While I agree (now - duh) Jimmy is good enough to be the best guy on a contender, I still think the shortened season really helped him in the playoffs - I just don't think Jimmy is durable enough to make it all the way through a normal season and playoffs and still be near 100% at the end.

He played deep last year with Philly but missed games as does everyone except Lebron. Don't you think he knows that. What is special about Kawhi when he has maintenance built in his schedule. I think that's a unfair take on Jimmy. Luka missed games. Would AD be even playing by now if it was not a shortened season?

LeBron actually missed a good amount of games for once last season with his groin injury, but one can also criticized him for not playing the rest of some games at the end of the season after he came back when they still had a chance at the 8th seed. Knowing LeBron, he realized the deck wasn't stack in his favor with no co-star player or 2 to win the championship, so why bother?

[Jcool0]

I'm just gonna say it: He's better than Pippen.

He's not the playmaker or defender but he's significantly better as a scorer that it makes this a legitimate question.

Pippen will always be 'better' due to accolades, but pure peak and talent, this is an interesting talking point.

Jimmy has had the biggest heart in the NBA for awhile. Him and MJ together would have been something special too. Toughness, focus, and determination would have been GOAT for a duo.

Jimmy and Jordan together.... That would not mesh at all. They are both alphas, can you imagine Jordan going after Butler. There would be fist fights at every practice.

[TheFinishSniper]

Jimmy Butler has become what Derrick Rose had been "destined" for. Who'd ever foresaw this in 2011? It really is a remarkable story.

I haven't been the most scrupulous of watchers the past 10 years, but I was definitely wrong about the ceiling of J-But. I didn't see it in a Bulls uni. (More importantly I thought that under Garpax it would go to waste anyway.)

I think all these very public losses and disputes in Minnesota and Philly helped him reach this new high. We grew him up, but he was made by those losses and what he's become in Miami is the absolute man --- almost at the Kawhi tier.

Seeing him play offense against Lebron as well as having to defend him, while driving in and icing absolutely necessary free throws, playing 47 minutes (which I initially thought was an exaggeration when I wrote it) was pretty effing amazing.

Derrick was always special. He was destined for greater things than whatever Jimmy ever accomplishes. And all that would have happen in Bulls uniform. Sounds bit cliche but that's why his downfall and injuries will always be reason for him being greatest what if.
This has taking nothing from Jimmy Butler and his success in league and what he become. In some alternate reality they would end up being 1A and 1B with Bulls again being greatest franchise NBA ever saw so when people would say how good this Bulls are I would say they are nowhere near good as 90's Bulls and MJ but yet we are on top of the world.

[nitetrain8603]

I think the difference between Pip and Jimmy is real tiny at this point. I’m not sure who is better, but Jimmy is cut from the same cloth as our dynasty boys. Jimmy really is like a stereotype of what a Chicago Bulls player should be like. It’s absurd that GarPax didn’t appreciate him more.

What's crazy is that the type of guys Paxson always identified with were hardworkers. That was Chicago Bulls basketball to him. People who would grind it out. Yet, his two best grinders, he ran out of town with Gar.

Thibs trained Jimmy for this. I want to see him win one so bad, but I know I'm also going to feel awful.

[Jimako10]

Im guessing that Butler isn't worth a player coming off an ACL injury, an old rookie who can't shoot, and moving up 9 spots in the draft with no additional picks?

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[Ice Man]

Jimmy and Jordan together.... That would not mesh at all. They are both alphas, can you imagine Jordan going after Butler. There would be fist fights at every practice.

Jimmy willingly took a back seat on the 2016 Olympics team, and has never attempted to take the spotlight with any of his All Star Game appearances. And of course he was a player in the background for the Bulls for three years. I'm guessing he could have figured out how to coexist with Mike, if that meant winning basketball games.

[Midway Bully]

He's not the playmaker or defender but he's significantly better as a scorer that it makes this a legitimate question.

Pippen will always be 'better' due to accolades, but pure peak and talent, this is an interesting talking point.

Jimmy has had the biggest heart in the NBA for awhile. Him and MJ together would have been something special too. Toughness, focus, and determination would have been GOAT for a duo.

Jimmy and Jordan together.... That would not mesh at all. They are both alphas, can you imagine Jordan going after Butler. There would be fist fights at every practice.

I'm sure they'd be fights in practice, but probably not for a lack of effort. From what I've seen, Jimmy only ever has a problem if effort isn't being put in, which is obviously the same mindset that the Bulls had under Thibs (all the stories about guys like Jo, JB, Rose etc calling each other out during games for not being focused). I don't think you're going to have issues from MJ and JB on the effort end. JB probably wouldn't have problems deferring to MJ in-game either. The guy is clearly comfortable playing within the flow of the game, and trusting someone as green as Herro to do his thing.

[Grodoboldo]

Truly historic stuff

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@StephNoh: Jimmy Butler has been the most valuable player through the first five games of the Finals.

Leading all players in minutes, assists, and steals per game, and by a wide margin in each category. Second in points and blocks per game. Third in rebounds per game. https://t.co/B6nI7pAL42

[bad knees]

I don't understand the people who talk about GarPax's ineptness as support for their thinking that trading Jimmy was a good idea. It's a hell of a lot easier to build a great team around one great two-way wing than it is to build one from scratch. GarPax built a great team around a healthy Derrick quite quickly; there is no reason to think that they couldn't have done the same around Jimmy, if they had appreciated his talent and upside. Seems like the references to GarPax are just an attempt by some posters to shift responsibility from having made a poor judgment. It's not a sin to make a poor judgment about a player's potential - we all do it. There's also no need to shift responsibility either.

And by the way, here is an article that sets forth in detail what we knew about Jimmy, his skills, his will to improve and his will to overcome odds, at the time that we decided to trade him. His trajectory was already off the charts. He had gone from homeless in high school, to the 30th pick in the draft, to an All Star and All-NBA defender. Yet we decided that his trajectory was going to stop and/or dramatically dip downward going forward. Remarkable really.

https://myhero.com/jimmy-butler-2

[TeamMan]

I don't understand the people who talk about GarPax's ineptness as support for their thinking that trading Jimmy was a good idea. It's a hell of a lot easier to build a great team around one great two-way wing than it is to build one from scratch. GarPax built a great team around a healthy Derrick quite quickly; there is no reason to think that they couldn't have done the same around Jimmy, if they had appreciated his talent and upside. Seems like the references to GarPax are just an attempt by some posters to shift responsibility from having made a poor judgment. It's not a sin to make a poor judgment about a player's potential - we all do it. There's also no need to shift responsibility either.

And by the way, here is an article that sets forth in detail what we knew about Jimmy, his skills, his will to improve and his will to overcome odds, at the time that we decided to trade him. His trajectory was already off the charts. He had gone from homeless in high school, to the 30th pick in the draft, to an All Star and All-NBA defender. Yet we decided that his trajectory was going to stop and/or dramatically dip downward going forward. Remarkable really.

https://myhero.com/jimmy-butler-2

It wasn't that they thought that his trajectory was going to end, it was profit.

They just simply didn't want to pay him.

It was only after he was gone, the Bulls started to miss the playoff, and JR started to miss that playoff revenue, that he finally woke up.

Many posters on the board said that JR never gave the Gar/Pax an ultimatum to get back to the playoffs, but now (after they failed) there has been a house cleaning.

And it must hurt JR (and Gar/Pax even more) to watch these NBA finals and have their noses rubbed in their mistake.