Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Also...

Nuggets had a 120 ORTG.

And Gobert played 38 minutes per game and had a 116 defensive rating... best of players that played significant minutes. So basically, any time he was out they got absolutely mauled. Maybe the Jazz should have gotten/retained more defenders instead of leaving Gobert on his own on that end

They had that the previous years, those defenders couldn't score and because Rudy can't space the floor it hurt their offense. With rim runners, you usually have to sacrifice spacing to play them.

A 1 way defensive center making over $15 million really kind of limits what you can do, that is the point of this thread. I'd rather have a poor defending center that can score like KAT or Jokic than one like Gobert.

[8516knicks]

People have mentioned Rudy G and Capella. Curious who the forum thinks are the top 5 rim runner centers and which you'd like on the Knicks (for comparison with Mitch @ 14M per year)?

[FutureKnicksGM]

The Heat run offense through Bam, he is their secondary playmaker right now to Butler, trying to paint he and Mitch as the same type of player is just wrong

He was 2nd on the Heat in APG this season, he's made 100+ jumpers this year as well, he and Mitch are comparable in the same way a Camaro and a Bugatti are, they're both cars, they both go fast...but there's a very clear difference.

Yes Mitch is no Adebayo in term of playmaking, but he doesn’t need to be. The point is you don’t need 5 shooters and playmakers on the floor, especially if Mitch can help in other areas. I can see Mitch gaining a short jumper to keep the D honest.

So why compare him to Bam if can't do the thing that keeps Bam effective on offense? Bam isn't just a rim roller, he is a legitimate secondary playmaker like Draymond or what Randle thinks he of himself. Just to put in perspective how different they are, Bam who isn't even 100% confident with his jumper took 368 of them this year, Mitch took 8, they couldn't be anymore different from one another on offense.

How many rim rollers ever developed a jumper?

Because Bam is a rum runner and doesn’t space out to 3, has barely taken any jumpers in the finals, especially not yesterday, yet you can still win on the ultimate stage with a player like that.

And yes Bam is a secondary playmaker, which Mitch will never be. But so what, get a secondary playmaker at another position (i.e on the wing), It doesn’t have to be at the 5. I know Jae Crowder ain’t playmaking for MIA so it’s not required at every position.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Yes Mitch is no Adebayo in term of playmaking, but he doesn’t need to be. The point is you don’t need 5 shooters and playmakers on the floor, especially if Mitch can help in other areas. I can see Mitch gaining a short jumper to keep the D honest.

So why compare him to Bam if can't do the thing that keeps Bam effective on offense? Bam isn't just a rim roller, he is a legitimate secondary playmaker like Draymond or what Randle thinks he of himself. Just to put in perspective how different they are, Bam who isn't even 100% confident with his jumper took 368 of them this year, Mitch took 8, they couldn't be anymore different from one another on offense.

How many rim rollers ever developed a jumper?

Because Bam is a rum runner and doesn’t space out to 3, has barely taken any jumpers in the finals, especially not yesterday, yet you can still win on the ultimate stage with a player like that.

And yes Bam is a secondary playmaker, which Mitch will never be. But so what, get a secondary playmaker at another position (i.e on the wing), It doesn’t have to be at the 5. I know Jae Crowder ain’t playmaking for MIA so it’s not required at every position.

A center being a secondary playmaker is the advantage, it makes him unique and hard to gameplan for. If Mitch had flashes of being a passer like that I'd be more inclined to stand down on my tirades against him, but he hasn't shown that, he's just a rim roller.

Bam is closer to Draymond than he is any standard rim runner, he creates offense for others.

[KnicksGadfly]

Think it's important to separate the defense and offense in this scenario.

I'd argue a guy like Gobert is actually a plus for the Jazz on offense, given that they have good floor spacers, Mitchell as the 1A, and his efficiency. It's just his defense that's the issue in the playoffs. The guy can get taken out of the game and burned by getting switched onto a good perimeter player. He's improved a bit in that regard, but that's going to be a big issue. Also, if Gobert is not there for the Jazz, I don't really have confidence in their defense.

[thebuzzardman]

People have mentioned Rudy G and Capella. Curious who the forum thinks are the top 5 rim runner centers and which you'd like on the Knicks (for comparison with Mitch @ 14M per year)?

I believe the answer you'll get is "none" or "it depends on timing", that maybe they'd tolerate that much money if it was going to Mitch when the Knicks were contending and then they went over the cap to reward him, or something like that.

I think Mitch is a piece, but there is value in considering what might be too much if the team hasn't gotten it's true #1 and #2 options.
Then again, it pays to hold onto talent.

My personal desire is to see him traded and become an all star on another team. But that's just me.

[Clyde_Style]

Is that the horse that No Dope On Sundays rode in on?

If anyone is riding horses it's the Mitch Mounties stuck in the industrial revolution preaching about coal, I'm off in the future in a Tesla P100 rocking a titanium buttplug and interstellar nipple clamps preaching about clean energy and the inviolable right to silently glide through the landscape while achieving a screaming climax

FFY (too many factual omissions)

[Deeeez Knicks]

Really, you can pay the mid level/min game with pretty much every position. Lakers have AD and Lebron with basically a roster filled with mid-level and min guys.

The crazy thing about this argument is Mitch is only making $1.5mil for the next 2 years. If we are talking about managing cap and building a team with min Cs well that is exactly what we have in Mitch. Out of every C in the league, he probably has one of the best values. We have 2 years and are able to spend a lot on other positions with a cheap, effective C. If we trade him we are likely to spend more on a C that is probably worse

This was addressed in the opening post, the whole thread is about how scary Mitch's next contract could be if he's coming off a season in which he starts and posts typical good rim runner numbers. People in here are fine with him getting Capela money, when Capela isn't even worth Capela money.

Yea, but his max extension would only be four-year, $56 million if we extended him early. With a max bonus it could be up to 4 years, $65mil.

Capela signed for 5 year $90mil. Gobert signed for 4 year $102mil.

Comparitively, we are in position to lock him up for a relative bargain, or keep him for cheap and take advantage of bird rights.

I just disagree with the premise that his contract puts us in a bad position. Its really a great deal that gives us a ton of options as long as we take advantage. No joke, it could be the best contract we have ever given in the past 20+ years.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Is that the horse that No Dope On Sundays rode in on?

If anyone is riding horses it's the Mitch Mounties stuck in the industrial revolution preaching about coal, I'm off in the future in a Tesla P100 rocking a titanium buttplug and interstellar nipple clamps preaching about clean energy and the inviolable right to silently glide through the landscape while achieving a screaming climax

FFY (too many factual omissions)

If that's what winning a title feels like with a modern team, lets go.

[bronxknicksfan1]

So the Jazz losing is all on Gobert, even though the Jazz played better when Gobert was on the court?

We need to keep Mitch and continue to develop him, especially with Thibs here.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Bam's inability to space the floor crippled the Heat's offense in the first half, and the Lakers stopped playing their own rim runner to open up their offense.

Not a good day, week, month or year to be a fan of these rimmers.

[knicksNOTslick]

Mitchell can guard out to the perimeter though. Some of these rim runners mentioned can't guard out to the 3. Robinson's rookie year he blocked 3pt shooters at an alarming rate and he didn't really play the full season. That is something that the Knicks can take advantage of. If we can field a team out there that can keep switching and not get exploited, our defense would be set. We just need to add more two-way players on the roster.

[Hes_On_Fire]

This kid needs to show more dedication to the game of basketball and improving his play. I don't want him becoming another Whiteside because I do get those vibes from him sometimes. He has all the talent in the world but let's see if he puts the effort in to get better.

Thibodeau will not hesitate to bench/trade this guy if he doesn't.

[thebuzzardman]

Is that the horse that No Dope On Sundays rode in on?

If anyone is riding horses it's the Mitch Mounties stuck in the industrial revolution preaching about coal, I'm off in the future in a Tesla P100 rocking a titanium buttplug and interstellar nipple clamps preaching about clean energy and the inviolable right to silently glide through the landscape while achieving a screaming climax

FFY (too many factual omissions)

If this post was a basketball player, it would be named "Rimmer Thejet" )

Not to be confused with:

[Nazrmohamed]

So why compare him to Bam if can't do the thing that keeps Bam effective on offense? Bam isn't just a rim roller, he is a legitimate secondary playmaker like Draymond or what Randle thinks he of himself. Just to put in perspective how different they are, Bam who isn't even 100% confident with his jumper took 368 of them this year, Mitch took 8, they couldn't be anymore different from one another on offense.

How many rim rollers ever developed a jumper?

Because Bam is a rum runner and doesn’t space out to 3, has barely taken any jumpers in the finals, especially not yesterday, yet you can still win on the ultimate stage with a player like that.

And yes Bam is a secondary playmaker, which Mitch will never be. But so what, get a secondary playmaker at another position (i.e on the wing), It doesn’t have to be at the 5. I know Jae Crowder ain’t playmaking for MIA so it’s not required at every position.

A center being a secondary playmaker is the advantage, it makes him unique and hard to gameplan for. If Mitch had flashes of being a passer like that I'd be more inclined to stand down on my tirades against him, but he hasn't shown that, he's just a rim roller.

Bam is closer to Draymond than he is any standard rim runner, he creates offense for others.

Sooooo, the moral is we should start Randle and ditch Mitch? I've been seeing this distaste for Mitch every since Bam and Miami started rising. I wonder how I should now feel that Javele McGee just beat Bam.

I know thats not the context, but just create the context. Knicks always wanna be reactionary. Bam did well so now that must mean I gotta find a new Bam. Before Bam it was 1in-4out. Am I already behind the times on that? So now Mitch sucks because of Bam? People also gotta understand that everything is relative to everything else. You drop Mitch on the Celtics with a half yr for chemistry and we would've had a Lakers/Celtics finals and maybe Mitch **** on Bam the whole series. That might've been the case even if he doesn't start. I don't think people realize how mitch of a garauntee he is to score by just throwing the ball anywhere near his airspace and I'll put Mitchs defense up against anybody. He plays on a **** team, that'll be further **** trying to get cute with thier money. Wait till the moments right, be fair yet not suckers and pay the talent you've drafted and developed. For chrissakes, once since 1990 can we just identify good talent and keep them past rookie contracts.

We'll hold firm and allow ourselves to think we're so savvy and then sign your THJs and Randles anyway. So just pay your talent.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Anthony Davis couldn't shoot 3's in his first 3 seasons either. Imagine giving up on him then

[god shammgod]

we should actually just lock the thread at this point. this is ridiculous.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Anthony Davis couldn't shoot 3's in his first 3 seasons either. Imagine giving up on him then

Anthony Davis was a 79% freethrow shooter those first 3 years and we have shot chart data from then, he made 116 jumpshots as a rookie, Mitch has made 6 in two years and has shot 58% from the line so far in 2 seasons. AD had all the signs that he could turn into a three point shooter, this is like comparing a Yorkshire terrier to a grey Wolf.

we should actually just lock the thread at this point. this is ridiculous.

Nobody is twisting your arm to be here, but deep down inside you know the thread is the truth, you keep coming back to feel the pain of the truth, it burns but soon you'll accept it. Until then, you'll keep denying the inevitable and swinging at air

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Because Bam is a rum runner and doesn’t space out to 3, has barely taken any jumpers in the finals, especially not yesterday, yet you can still win on the ultimate stage with a player like that.

And yes Bam is a secondary playmaker, which Mitch will never be. But so what, get a secondary playmaker at another position (i.e on the wing), It doesn’t have to be at the 5. I know Jae Crowder ain’t playmaking for MIA so it’s not required at every position.

A center being a secondary playmaker is the advantage, it makes him unique and hard to gameplan for. If Mitch had flashes of being a passer like that I'd be more inclined to stand down on my tirades against him, but he hasn't shown that, he's just a rim roller.

Bam is closer to Draymond than he is any standard rim runner, he creates offense for others.

Sooooo, the moral is we should start Randle and ditch Mitch? I've been seeing this distaste for Mitch every since Bam and Miami started rising. I wonder how I should now feel that Javele McGee just beat Bam.

I know thats not the context, but just create the context. Knicks always wanna be reactionary. Bam did well so now that must mean I gotta find a new Bam. Before Bam it was 1in-4out. Am I already behind the times on that? So now Mitch sucks because of Bam? People also gotta understand that everything is relative to everything else. You drop Mitch on the Celtics with a half yr for chemistry and we would've had a Lakers/Celtics finals and maybe Mitch **** on Bam the whole series. That might've been the case even if he doesn't start. I don't think people realize how mitch of a garauntee he is to score by just throwing the ball anywhere near his airspace and I'll put Mitchs defense up against anybody. He plays on a **** team, that'll be further **** trying to get cute with thier money. Wait till the moments right, be fair yet not suckers and pay the talent you've drafted and developed. For chrissakes, once since 1990 can we just identify good talent and keep them past rookie contracts.

We'll hold firm and allow ourselves to think we're so savvy and then sign your THJs and Randles anyway. So just pay your talent.

So, you come away from this thread thinking I want Randle at center?

And ontop of that, you think Mitch would have been the answer to the Heat's zone? You put Mitch on the Celtics and the zone works just the same because he can't shoot, pass or attack the middle of a zone. He would be in the dunkers spot, clogging up the lane for any potential drives by his teammates. The Heat's zone broke early against the Lakers because AD & LeBron could get in the heart of it, but they didn't throw many if any lobs that I can remember to AD or Dwight, because the Heat are quick enough to cover that up.

The main point is he isn't even half the player Bam is on offense, and Bam crippled his teams offense in the first half of that game, we all saw it. I don't think in regular season terms, I'm thinking about how a team with a rim roller will play in the playoffs, and if that rim roller is making too much money it will hurt us against teams that have two way, offensive centers or a smallball lineup that can shoot and rebound. There are a few of those players in our conference.

[thebuzzardman]

we should actually just lock the thread at this point. this is ridiculous.

Personally, I think we should sticky it.