What has Jordan achieved without Pippen?

[twyzted]

Yeah and Pippen was better than him in 91, and when he came back briefly few years later.

....Pippen was better than 91 Magic?

Remember when MJ was getting cooked by Magic's trip dub in game 1 Lakers win.
Then Pippen took over the rest of the way and full court press the hell out of Magic and Bulls won 4 straight.
Ya that Pippen.

No thats a lie Jordan guarded magic

From reddit, i also watched highlights from the games.

“Pippen was Magic’s primary defender in the 91 finals”. This is probably the biggest myth ever. The media created this myth and Lebron fans have been running with this. This narrative is so false. I re-watched the finals a few months ago, so I know I can expose this myth.

Before I expose this, let me show you some of the narratives that make up the overall narrative and myth:

Jordan got torched by Magic in game 1
Phil put Pippen on Magic in game 2 because Jordan struggled in game 1
Pippen shut Magic down in games 2-5
"Game 1- Jordan guarded Magic for basically the entire game and played very good defense on him. Magic had to pass on many occasions because of how well Jordan was guarding him. Magic only scored once while being guarded by Jordan. Honestly, Jordan torched Magic.

Game 2- Jordan guarded Magic for most of the 1st quarter and was playing decent defense. However, around the 4-minute mark of the 1st quarter Jordan picked up 2 fouls, which caused Pippen to take over his role of guarding Magic. Pippen guarded Magic for the rest of the game and shut him down.

Game 3- Jordan guarded Magic for most of the game. He however struggled. I think it’s fair to say that Magic torched him. Pippen occasionally guarded Magic.

Game 4- Jordan guarded Magic for most of the game and was playing decent defense. Despite struggling at times, he wasn’t struggling anywhere near as much as in game 3. Pippen guarded Magic occasionally.

Game 5- Jordan guarded Magic for basically the entire game and played good defense on him. I don’t recall Pippen guarding him.

Conclusion- Pippen was Magic’s primary defender in only game 2, but only because Jordan got into foul trouble. Pippen shut down Magic in game 2 , but not in games 3-5. Jordan guarded Magic for most of the series and played decent defense on him."

https://www.reddit.com/r/VintageNBA/comments/fmjwop/pippen_guarding_magic_in_the_91_finals_myth/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[Danny11]

Jordan never forced his way out of his team before his contract ended just to specifically team up with another Star, a player who is the greatest player of our time.

AD is the new KD except KD didn't force his way out of OKC before his contract was up but their is questions whether he'll even get a FMVP since Lebron is so dominant.

You say this like it was bad for the Pelicans. Just look at European Soccer, teams do whatever they can to sell players before their contract expires so that a team is not left empty handed when the star inevitably leaves.

Dude straight up quit on his team and refused to even play, while under contract with a fake injuries.

I don't think you are understanding. Let's say you are the RealGM of the Pelicans and you knew this was going to happen, would you give him the extension of 5 years?

The answer is yes. Of course. Because the alternative is he signs somewhere else, you don't get 3.5 years of him playing for you and gaining attention, you don't get the Lakers trade package at the end, and you don't get the (albeit failed) chance of making a playoff run with a bonafide superstar.

[Danny11]

He has a right to leverage his body and contract however he likes but he also doesn't have absolute immunity from being criticized or judged for breaking out of his contract with the team while its still active.

The way AD handled his departure from THE Pels should not be emulated, announcing he wanted to get traded publicly, which got him fined by the league by the way, and then moping over the fact that he didn't get dealt at the trade deadline.

I dont value that, I respect someone that can honor the contract they sign. Doesn't matter who the it is. I know it will be brought up, Kawhi helped get my team a championship, that doesn't prevent me from acknowledging the San Antonio fans frustration with his exit, nor am I mad about him leaving the Raptors when his contract was up.

I dont value the way AD handled his departure, nothing can convince me it was handle well, don't care if he has the right to leverage his contract and body.

No doubt. Everyone is subject to criticism. He didn't break his contract. I'm sure he told the Pelicans that he wanted to be traded privately, and when it didn't happen, he went public. Lesson learned for the Pelicans. AD had more leverage than they did. Now they have Zion, maybe they should offer him only a 2 year extension so that he can walk away from the team instead of forcing a trade when he inevitably wants to leave. Let's see how that works. Spoiler: it won't.

This is happening because of the CBA, which is not in the superstars best interest. If there was no salary cap, or at least no max contract, no rookie scale, etc. teams would be forced to pay guys like AD more. This is a product of the same system that makes the organizations millions of dollars. There's no reason to feel bad for them.

Him coming out publicly is breaking contract. Its not up to the Pels to baby Zion into figuring out what contract is best for his long term interests, its up to Zion to decide if he'd rather sign an extension that works for him that doesn't result in him turning into a drama queen, diva in order to weasel out of the contract he signed.

Its up to the Pels to decide what they feel is best for their interests after knowing the terms set by the player, if they feel its worth it to let him potentially walk and sign him to that two year extension knowing that, thats on them.

The CBA rules have very little to do with ADs handling of his contract, thats on him. I dont need to speculate what he did or did not say behind close doors, he acted like a child on his way out and no Pels fan deserved that. The time between him signing with Klutch sports and wanting to be traded to L.A. to team up with Lebron is all the info I need to know.

It's not up to AD to baby the Pels and hold their hand and figure out what's best for their long term interests either. It's up to AD to figure out what is best for his career long term, and the Pels should make their own decision.

See the point I made in the post above ^^

Pelicans fans don't "deserve" anything, what happens happens. AD has no obligation to anyone but himself. He was drafted to this team. He didn't choose to live in New Orleans. He signed an extension there, and the Pelicans gave him guaranteed money with only a gentleman's agreement that he would honor it. What is the consequence for a regular employee of not honoring a contract? Maybe getting blacklisted? Well AD is not a regular employee, he is irreplaceable. The Pelicans are big boys and should account for that in their contract negotiations. And they did. They still gave a 5-year max extension because it is worth it. This is reality, not ideality.

[kazyv]

....Pippen was better than 91 Magic?

Remember when MJ was getting cooked by Magic's trip dub in game 1 Lakers win.
Then Pippen took over the rest of the way and full court press the hell out of Magic and Bulls won 4 straight.
Ya that Pippen.

No thats a lie Jordan guarded magic

From reddit, i also watched highlights from the games.

“Pippen was Magic’s primary defender in the 91 finals”. This is probably the biggest myth ever. The media created this myth and Lebron fans have been running with this. This narrative is so false. I re-watched the finals a few months ago, so I know I can expose this myth.

Before I expose this, let me show you some of the narratives that make up the overall narrative and myth:

Jordan got torched by Magic in game 1
Phil put Pippen on Magic in game 2 because Jordan struggled in game 1
Pippen shut Magic down in games 2-5
"Game 1- Jordan guarded Magic for basically the entire game and played very good defense on him. Magic had to pass on many occasions because of how well Jordan was guarding him. Magic only scored once while being guarded by Jordan. Honestly, Jordan torched Magic.

Game 2- Jordan guarded Magic for most of the 1st quarter and was playing decent defense. However, around the 4-minute mark of the 1st quarter Jordan picked up 2 fouls, which caused Pippen to take over his role of guarding Magic. Pippen guarded Magic for the rest of the game and shut him down.

Game 3- Jordan guarded Magic for most of the game. He however struggled. I think it’s fair to say that Magic torched him. Pippen occasionally guarded Magic.

Game 4- Jordan guarded Magic for most of the game and was playing decent defense. Despite struggling at times, he wasn’t struggling anywhere near as much as in game 3. Pippen guarded Magic occasionally.

Game 5- Jordan guarded Magic for basically the entire game and played good defense on him. I don’t recall Pippen guarding him.

Conclusion- Pippen was Magic’s primary defender in only game 2, but only because Jordan got into foul trouble. Pippen shut down Magic in game 2 , but not in games 3-5. Jordan guarded Magic for most of the series and played decent defense on him."

https://www.reddit.com/r/VintageNBA/comments/fmjwop/pippen_guarding_magic_in_the_91_finals_myth/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

*crickets*

i love this thread. some bull claim is made to prop up scottie and diminish mj. it get's refuted with hard facts. repeat ad infinitum

[twyzted]

Remember when MJ was getting cooked by Magic's trip dub in game 1 Lakers win.
Then Pippen took over the rest of the way and full court press the hell out of Magic and Bulls won 4 straight.
Ya that Pippen.

No thats a lie Jordan guarded magic

From reddit, i also watched highlights from the games.

“Pippen was Magic’s primary defender in the 91 finals”. This is probably the biggest myth ever. The media created this myth and Lebron fans have been running with this. This narrative is so false. I re-watched the finals a few months ago, so I know I can expose this myth.

Before I expose this, let me show you some of the narratives that make up the overall narrative and myth:

Jordan got torched by Magic in game 1
Phil put Pippen on Magic in game 2 because Jordan struggled in game 1
Pippen shut Magic down in games 2-5
"Game 1- Jordan guarded Magic for basically the entire game and played very good defense on him. Magic had to pass on many occasions because of how well Jordan was guarding him. Magic only scored once while being guarded by Jordan. Honestly, Jordan torched Magic.

Game 2- Jordan guarded Magic for most of the 1st quarter and was playing decent defense. However, around the 4-minute mark of the 1st quarter Jordan picked up 2 fouls, which caused Pippen to take over his role of guarding Magic. Pippen guarded Magic for the rest of the game and shut him down.

Game 3- Jordan guarded Magic for most of the game. He however struggled. I think it’s fair to say that Magic torched him. Pippen occasionally guarded Magic.

Game 4- Jordan guarded Magic for most of the game and was playing decent defense. Despite struggling at times, he wasn’t struggling anywhere near as much as in game 3. Pippen guarded Magic occasionally.

Game 5- Jordan guarded Magic for basically the entire game and played good defense on him. I don’t recall Pippen guarding him.

Conclusion- Pippen was Magic’s primary defender in only game 2, but only because Jordan got into foul trouble. Pippen shut down Magic in game 2 , but not in games 3-5. Jordan guarded Magic for most of the series and played decent defense on him."

https://www.reddit.com/r/VintageNBA/comments/fmjwop/pippen_guarding_magic_in_the_91_finals_myth/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

*crickets*

i love this thread. some bull claim is made to prop up scottie and diminish mj. it get's refuted with hard facts. repeat ad infinitum

That happens every time. Any time they get refuted they dont answer, and go to another thread with the same bs again and again

[Curmudgeon]

What did Pippen achieve without Jordan?

[IzzyT]

He carried him through a migraine and a backache... or two.

[jerok]

No thats a lie Jordan guarded magic

From reddit, i also watched highlights from the games.

“Pippen was Magic’s primary defender in the 91 finals”. This is probably the biggest myth ever. The media created this myth and Lebron fans have been running with this. This narrative is so false. I re-watched the finals a few months ago, so I know I can expose this myth.

Before I expose this, let me show you some of the narratives that make up the overall narrative and myth:

Jordan got torched by Magic in game 1
Phil put Pippen on Magic in game 2 because Jordan struggled in game 1
Pippen shut Magic down in games 2-5
"Game 1- Jordan guarded Magic for basically the entire game and played very good defense on him. Magic had to pass on many occasions because of how well Jordan was guarding him. Magic only scored once while being guarded by Jordan. Honestly, Jordan torched Magic.

Game 2- Jordan guarded Magic for most of the 1st quarter and was playing decent defense. However, around the 4-minute mark of the 1st quarter Jordan picked up 2 fouls, which caused Pippen to take over his role of guarding Magic. Pippen guarded Magic for the rest of the game and shut him down.

Game 3- Jordan guarded Magic for most of the game. He however struggled. I think it’s fair to say that Magic torched him. Pippen occasionally guarded Magic.

Game 4- Jordan guarded Magic for most of the game and was playing decent defense. Despite struggling at times, he wasn’t struggling anywhere near as much as in game 3. Pippen guarded Magic occasionally.

Game 5- Jordan guarded Magic for basically the entire game and played good defense on him. I don’t recall Pippen guarding him.

Conclusion- Pippen was Magic’s primary defender in only game 2, but only because Jordan got into foul trouble. Pippen shut down Magic in game 2 , but not in games 3-5. Jordan guarded Magic for most of the series and played decent defense on him."

https://www.reddit.com/r/VintageNBA/comments/fmjwop/pippen_guarding_magic_in_the_91_finals_myth/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

*crickets*

i love this thread. some bull claim is made to prop up scottie and diminish mj. it get's refuted with hard facts. repeat ad infinitum

That happens every time. Any time they get refuted they dont answer, and go to another thread with the same bs again and again

LOL, some people have lives and not on realgm 24/7.
Let me ask you, who was magic praising after game 2?

No one diminishing MJ, not me certainly he is GOAT in my eyes. LeBron is very close 2nd.
But I'm not blinded by facts. The notion that MJ did I solo is BS.

Let me ask the both of you again.
What has MJ done without scottie? Don't run from it. I'll wait.

[twyzted]

*crickets*

i love this thread. some bull claim is made to prop up scottie and diminish mj. it get's refuted with hard facts. repeat ad infinitum

That happens every time. Any time they get refuted they dont answer, and go to another thread with the same bs again and again

LOL, some people have lives and not on realgm 24/7.
Let me ask you, who was magic praising after game 2?

No one diminishing MJ, not me certainly he is GOAT in my eyes. LeBron is very close 2nd.
But I'm not blinded by facts. The notion that MJ did I solo is BS.

Let me ask the both of you again.
What has MJ done without scottie? Don't run from it. I'll wait.

I was not meaning you but there are other lebron fans who usually duck out when presented with facts or diffrent opinion. So apologies that comment was not aimed at you.

Ive never heard about magic praising pippen after game 2? Short googling turned up nothing except some archive which you need to subscripe to look at.

But that does not mean that Jordan did not guard magic because he was the primary defender on magic in those finals.

Im not blinded by fact or anytjing else or are under the elusion that jordan did it him self. Infact i have never said he did it alone.

But answer your question. It depends. When pippen was a rookie the bulls reached 2nd round, in his second year ecf.
He won mvp and dpoy in pippens rookie year which was Jordans 4th season. So would you say that pippen had anything to do with Jordans mvp and dpoy?

So if we are strict Jordan won roy and lead the league in scoring.
I would say scoring titles, mvp, dpoy, all star games, lead his team to ecsf and ecf.
But outside of the nba. Olimpic gold, ncaa title.

[stillgotgame]

Jordan was ruthless, wanted to take your soul. Pippen was a perfect wing man, but the roll wasn't hard to fill.

Watch on YouTube

[dc]

He nearly got a terrible Wizards team to the playoffs as a 40 year old.

[knicksNOTslick]

People still acting like Pippen was some life changing lottery pick for the Bulls. The man started out on the Bench and worked his way up into the lineup. He became a legend while working hard next to Jordan. It's funny to me how alot of the same people who ask such questions as this thread will turn around and try to remind someone else in another thread that the NBA is a team game.

This is exactly it. MJ made Pippen into the player he is by pushing him to get to his level. Lebron has not done that to any player he's played with. Ever.

Why? Because he just didn't have that mentality before. DWade had to show him how to be a Champ with their Big 3. Did he make anybody better there? Nope. Now the Cavs? Who got better? Kyrie had to make the game winning shots for him. But Lebron never really made anyone into an All Star. Same for the Lakers since Davis was already a top 5 player.

Lebron doesn't make his teammates better. Kyle Kuzma is useless. They all can't step up as role players. That's why with all his plans of stacking teams, Lebron only has half the rings.

[Infinite Llamas]

People still acting like Pippen was some life changing lottery pick for the Bulls. The man started out on the Bench and worked his way up into the lineup. He became a legend while working hard next to Jordan. It's funny to me how alot of the same people who ask such questions as this thread will turn around and try to remind someone else in another thread that the NBA is a team game.

This is exactly it. MJ made Pippen into the player he is by pushing him to get to his level. Lebron has not done that to any player he's played with. Ever.

Why? Because he just didn't have that mentality before. DWade had to show him how to be a Champ with their Big 3. Did he make anybody better there? Nope. Now the Cavs? Who got better? Kyrie had to make the game winning shots for him. But Lebron never really made anyone into an All Star. Same for the Lakers since Davis was already a top 5 player.

Lebron doesn't make his teammates better. Kyle Kuzma is useless. They all can't step up as role players. That's why with all his plans of stacking teams, Lebron only has half the rings.

Yes. People always point the finger at guys like Danny Green and JR Smith and are so quick to remind everyone that basketball is a “team game” and then Jordan gets the most out of guys like Paxson, Kerr and Luc Longley and people scream his teams were stacked. Even though half the role players Jordan played with were journeymen that were seemingly there just for the free ring. Trash Lebrons talent and hype up Jordan’s. Typical bull you see in all of these threads.

Jordan achieved a hell of a lot more on his own than Pippen did on his own.

[Capn'O]

Rodman= Ben Wallace on Roids

So.... just Ben Wallace?

[taikibansei]

Rodman= Ben Wallace on Roids

So.... just Ben Wallace?

[Triple7]

This is just a dumb, stupid thread!

[alebaba]

Jordan doesn't need Pippen, he just needed a second all star.

[Magic Is Magic]

Since nobody is answering the TS I will chime in with my response. Nothing. MJ did nothing in the 5 years without Scottie. And to be crystal clear, Scottie actually has won more playoff games without MJ than MJ has without Scottie. Scottie also has won more playoff series in his career than MJ has.

[spikeslovechild]

Since nobody is answering the TS I will chime in with my response. Nothing. MJ did nothing in the 5 years without Scottie. And to be crystal clear, Scottie actually has won more playoff games with MJ than MJ has without Scottie. Scottie also has won more playoff series in his career than MJ has.

If Lebron wins a chip this year it will be his first championship without a big three. So I think Jordan is allowed Pippen who is no AD.

And to answer your question he AVERAGED 45 points his sophmore year in the celtics playoff series without Pippen including 60+ point game on .500+ shooting. This thread is funny to me.

[fishfuego.]

Jordan calls Magic: “Hey Magic let’s team up, I’m putting together this super team that will include Bird, Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Barkley”.

Magic: “No thanks, I can win 5 championships on my own merits”.

Jordan: “ Who’s talking championships silly, I got 6 of those on my own merits as well lol, I’m talking DreamTeam”

Magic: “ haha silly me, we would at least have 10 chips each, or maybe I would have more than you and be undisputed GOAT lol. Nah not in this life”.