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[MrSparkle]

To be fair, like what some posters already pointed out, most couldn't see Jimmy's current level of play coming on a consistent basis when it mattered the most. And back then, him getting the supermax was arguably an overspend, but it was one you could live with if GarPax truly knew how to build around Jimmy with the right coach. But we already got the result. They didn't trust in Jimmy, they decided to tank, Boylen turned out to be a bozo, and Jimmy is now in the Finals with couple rookies and undrafted guys.

I think it’s fair to say nobody is “worth” the supermax. It takes so much of your cap and flexibility to add players. Even Lebron has proven he can’t win without 1-2 other elite star talents and a load of ring chasers. You either have to have a preset deep roster with potential or an owner committed to the deep luxury tax or it’s a bust. So you have to acknowledge that you need to be really aggressive and “go for it” when you do have top-15 talent(s).

So really, you plan ahead and sign/draft/trade all the talent you needed before Jimmy’s supermax. The Bulls had 3 long years and off-seasons to make something happen. Instead they nervously twirled their thumbs at the idea of paying somebody other than Jordan or Lebron a super max. We now know they were basically banking on an another bargain rookie panning out: Niko, Portis, Snell, Valentine, Jerian, Payne. All terribly cheap and poor talent evaluations.

I agree it’s risky signing anybody to that contract, but fearing it 2-3 off-seasons in advance makes no sense considering the guy had top-10 analytics and low mileage. It was just an acknowledgement that they wasted 4 years of picks and signings with a junk coaching staff and didn’t know how to build a good team anymore. Also they didn’t really consider Jimmy’s willingness to recruit talent.

[TheStig]

To be fair, like what some posters already pointed out, most couldn't see Jimmy's current level of play coming on a consistent basis when it mattered the most. And back then, him getting the supermax was arguably an overspend, but it was one you could live with if GarPax truly knew how to build around Jimmy with the right coach. But we already got the result. They didn't trust in Jimmy, they decided to tank, Boylen turned out to be a bozo, and Jimmy is now in the Finals with couple rookies and undrafted guys.

I think it’s fair to say nobody is “worth” the supermax. It takes so much of your cap and flexibility to add players. Even Lebron has proven he can’t win without 1-2 other elite star talents and a load of ring chasers. You either have to have a preset deep roster with potential or an owner committed to the deep luxury tax or it’s a bust.

So really, you plan ahead and sign/draft/trade all the talent you needed before Jimmy’s supermax. The Bulls had 3 long years and off-seasons to make something happen. Instead they nervously twirled their thumbs at the idea of paying somebody other than Jordan or Lebron a super max.

I agree it’s risky signing anybody to that contract, but fearing it 2-3 off-seasons in advance makes no sense considering the guy had top-10 analytics and low mileage. It was just an acknowledgement that they wasted 4 years of picks and signings with a junk coaching staff and didn’t know how to build a good team anymore. Also they didn’t really consider Jimmy’s willingness to recruit talent.

It's funny that the supermax was put into place to keep star players but it's actually forced more guys out. Cousins, Jimmy, Kemba all left because they wouldn't get it. Guys like KD, Leonard, Kyrie, PG passed it up. And the handful of guys who got it, it's been a mixed bag. Like Curry and Harden good, Wall and Westbrook bad.

Clearly I don't think it's working and has actually done more harm then good. Maybe they do 6 year deals instead of 5 for your own guy. But not the monster salary and raises.

[MrSparkle]

Whatever happens (probably LA in 6, hope not) it’ll be interesting to see what Riley does with this Heat team. They’re very good, with light potential (Herro and Bam), but they definitely need another piece to build on this year’s success, and have a lot of cap options. Who could be a replacement for Dragic? That’s what they really need imo; an offensive PG who can shoot and pass. Doesn’t everybody need that? Would McCollum or Oladipo work as an alternate idea, if they proceed with the point-Jimmy idea? I’m not sure what Goran brings after this season, unless he signs on a big discount. Would Rose or Paul make sense? They’ll have a few non-guaranteed contracts (Olynyk, Iguodala) to make something happen.

[Andi Obst]

Whatever happens (probably LA in 6, hope not) it’ll be interesting to see what Riley does with this Heat team. They’re very good, with light potential (Herro and Bam), but they definitely need another piece to build on this year’s success, and have a lot of cap options. Who could be a replacement for Dragic? That’s what they really need imo; an offensive PG who can shoot and pass. Doesn’t everybody need that? Would McCollum or Oladipo work as an alternate idea, if they proceed with the point-Jimmy idea? I’m not sure what Goran brings after this season, unless he signs on a big discount. Would Rose or Paul make sense? They’ll have a few non-guaranteed contracts (Olynyk, Iguodala) to make something happen.

I think they should and will bring back Dragic and Crowder for big one-year-deals if possible, maybe sign DJJ to a tradable value contract but let him go if a team falls in love with him and go all in in 2021. The 2020 free agency class won't help them, you won't get a player better than Dragic.

[R3AL1TY]

To be fair, like what some posters already pointed out, most couldn't see Jimmy's current level of play coming on a consistent basis when it mattered the most. And back then, him getting the supermax was arguably an overspend, but it was one you could live with if GarPax truly knew how to build around Jimmy with the right coach. But we already got the result. They didn't trust in Jimmy, they decided to tank, Boylen turned out to be a bozo, and Jimmy is now in the Finals with couple rookies and undrafted guys.

I think it’s fair to say nobody is “worth” the supermax. It takes so much of your cap and flexibility to add players. Even Lebron has proven he can’t win without 1-2 other elite star talents and a load of ring chasers. You either have to have a preset deep roster with potential or an owner committed to the deep luxury tax or it’s a bust. So you have to acknowledge that you need to be really aggressive and “go for it” when you do have top-15 talent(s).

So really, you plan ahead and sign/draft/trade all the talent you needed before Jimmy’s supermax. The Bulls had 3 long years and off-seasons to make something happen. Instead they nervously twirled their thumbs at the idea of paying somebody other than Jordan or Lebron a super max. We now know they were basically banking on an another bargain rookie panning out: Niko, Portis, Snell, Valentine, Jerian, Payne. All terribly cheap and poor talent evaluations.

I agree it’s risky signing anybody to that contract, but fearing it 2-3 off-seasons in advance makes no sense considering the guy had top-10 analytics and low mileage. It was just an acknowledgement that they wasted 4 years of picks and signings with a junk coaching staff and didn’t know how to build a good team anymore. Also they didn’t really consider Jimmy’s willingness to recruit talent.

I agree that nobody is really worth the supermax from a team building perspective. Even during MJ's era, if he had gotten the money he deserved or even more, it would've been difficult for the FO to add key pieces, especially for the 2nd 3 peat. As for Jimmy's situation, GarPax basically gave up on the Thibs' era and whoever was left over from it. They figured why spend big money if the team was barely an 8th seed and the top free agent options weren't in their favor. Let's save and start a new era. But the problems that lingered were the injury bugs and the lack of a strong environment.

To be fair, like what some posters already pointed out, most couldn't see Jimmy's current level of play coming on a consistent basis when it mattered the most. And back then, him getting the supermax was arguably an overspend, but it was one you could live with if GarPax truly knew how to build around Jimmy with the right coach. But we already got the result. They didn't trust in Jimmy, they decided to tank, Boylen turned out to be a bozo, and Jimmy is now in the Finals with couple rookies and undrafted guys.

I think it’s fair to say nobody is “worth” the supermax. It takes so much of your cap and flexibility to add players. Even Lebron has proven he can’t win without 1-2 other elite star talents and a load of ring chasers. You either have to have a preset deep roster with potential or an owner committed to the deep luxury tax or it’s a bust.

So really, you plan ahead and sign/draft/trade all the talent you needed before Jimmy’s supermax. The Bulls had 3 long years and off-seasons to make something happen. Instead they nervously twirled their thumbs at the idea of paying somebody other than Jordan or Lebron a super max.

I agree it’s risky signing anybody to that contract, but fearing it 2-3 off-seasons in advance makes no sense considering the guy had top-10 analytics and low mileage. It was just an acknowledgement that they wasted 4 years of picks and signings with a junk coaching staff and didn’t know how to build a good team anymore. Also they didn’t really consider Jimmy’s willingness to recruit talent.

It's funny that the supermax was put into place to keep star players but it's actually forced more guys out. Cousins, Jimmy, Kemba all left because they wouldn't get it. Guys like KD, Leonard, Kyrie, PG passed it up. And the handful of guys who got it, it's been a mixed bag. Like Curry and Harden good, Wall and Westbrook bad.

Clearly I don't think it's working and has actually done more harm then good. Maybe they do 6 year deals instead of 5 for your own guy. But not the monster salary and raises.

Yep, for the most part, the players who are getting it are being stuck in bad situations with their teams not reaching far, not being the destination of choice for top free agents, and not having the right circumstances or luck to land the next big thing from the draft.

[TheStig]

To be fair, like what some posters already pointed out, most couldn't see Jimmy's current level of play coming on a consistent basis when it mattered the most. And back then, him getting the supermax was arguably an overspend, but it was one you could live with if GarPax truly knew how to build around Jimmy with the right coach. But we already got the result. They didn't trust in Jimmy, they decided to tank, Boylen turned out to be a bozo, and Jimmy is now in the Finals with couple rookies and undrafted guys.

I think it’s fair to say nobody is “worth” the supermax. It takes so much of your cap and flexibility to add players. Even Lebron has proven he can’t win without 1-2 other elite star talents and a load of ring chasers. You either have to have a preset deep roster with potential or an owner committed to the deep luxury tax or it’s a bust. So you have to acknowledge that you need to be really aggressive and “go for it” when you do have top-15 talent(s).

So really, you plan ahead and sign/draft/trade all the talent you needed before Jimmy’s supermax. The Bulls had 3 long years and off-seasons to make something happen. Instead they nervously twirled their thumbs at the idea of paying somebody other than Jordan or Lebron a super max. We now know they were basically banking on an another bargain rookie panning out: Niko, Portis, Snell, Valentine, Jerian, Payne. All terribly cheap and poor talent evaluations.

I agree it’s risky signing anybody to that contract, but fearing it 2-3 off-seasons in advance makes no sense considering the guy had top-10 analytics and low mileage. It was just an acknowledgement that they wasted 4 years of picks and signings with a junk coaching staff and didn’t know how to build a good team anymore. Also they didn’t really consider Jimmy’s willingness to recruit talent.

I agree that nobody is really worth the supermax from a team building perspective. Even during MJ's era, if he had gotten the money he deserved or even more, it would've been difficult for the FO to add key pieces, especially for the 2nd 3 peat. As for Jimmy's situation, GarPax basically gave up on the Thibs' era and whoever was left over from it. They figured why spend big money if the team was barely an 8th seed and the top free agent options weren't in their favor. Let's save and start a new era. But the problems that lingered were the injury bugs and the lack of a strong environment.

I think it’s fair to say nobody is “worth” the supermax. It takes so much of your cap and flexibility to add players. Even Lebron has proven he can’t win without 1-2 other elite star talents and a load of ring chasers. You either have to have a preset deep roster with potential or an owner committed to the deep luxury tax or it’s a bust.

So really, you plan ahead and sign/draft/trade all the talent you needed before Jimmy’s supermax. The Bulls had 3 long years and off-seasons to make something happen. Instead they nervously twirled their thumbs at the idea of paying somebody other than Jordan or Lebron a super max.

I agree it’s risky signing anybody to that contract, but fearing it 2-3 off-seasons in advance makes no sense considering the guy had top-10 analytics and low mileage. It was just an acknowledgement that they wasted 4 years of picks and signings with a junk coaching staff and didn’t know how to build a good team anymore. Also they didn’t really consider Jimmy’s willingness to recruit talent.

It's funny that the supermax was put into place to keep star players but it's actually forced more guys out. Cousins, Jimmy, Kemba all left because they wouldn't get it. Guys like KD, Leonard, Kyrie, PG passed it up. And the handful of guys who got it, it's been a mixed bag. Like Curry and Harden good, Wall and Westbrook bad.

Clearly I don't think it's working and has actually done more harm then good. Maybe they do 6 year deals instead of 5 for your own guy. But not the monster salary and raises.

Yep, for the most part, the players who are getting it are being stuck in bad situations with their teams not reaching far, not being the destination of choice for top free agents, and not having the right circumstances or luck to land the next big thing from the draft.

I wouldn't say that. Curry is in a good situation. Harden is also in a good situation. He's just not a playoff performer. The game has passed Russ by. And Wall has been injured.

[Andi Obst]

The only thing I really hate about the Lakers (most likely) winning it all: Dwight Howard's annoying ass gets a ring. I can't stand the guy and never could, but he's making it worse every game.

[Ice Man]

The 2020 free agency class won't help them, you won't get a player better than Dragic.

DeRozan has a player option. He quietly was very good last year, definitely better than Dragic, plus Goran is 34 years old. If I'm Miami, I sign DD in a heartbeat. You can pay for his contract by letting Goran go and jettisoning Iggy. Or better yet, talk Goran into taking an old-man ring-chasing discount deal, and keep him as DD's backup.

[Andi Obst]

The 2020 free agency class won't help them, you won't get a player better than Dragic.

DeRozan has a player option. He quietly was very good last year, definitely better than Dragic, plus Goran is 34 years old. If I'm Miami, I sign DD in a heartbeat. You can pay for his contract by letting Goran go and jettisoning Iggy. Or better yet, talk Goran into taking an old-man ring-chasing discount deal, and keep him as DD's backup.

I wrote this yesterday when you brought up DeRozan, but I disagree. DeRozan may be better than Dragic, but definitely not for Miami. DeRozan is way too similar to Butler on offense, which will cause all kinds of problems (but mainly spacing). They need what Dragic brings.

DeRozan also isn't opting out unless you offer him multiple years. The Heat would be crazy to do that IMO.

[MrSparkle]

The 2020 free agency class won't help them, you won't get a player better than Dragic.

DeRozan has a player option. He quietly was very good last year, definitely better than Dragic, plus Goran is 34 years old. If I'm Miami, I sign DD in a heartbeat. You can pay for his contract by letting Goran go and jettisoning Iggy. Or better yet, talk Goran into taking an old-man ring-chasing discount deal, and keep him as DD's backup.

I wrote this yesterday when you brought up DeRozan, but I disagree. DeRozan may be better than Dragic, but definitely not for Miami. DeRozan is way too similar to Butler on offense, which will cause all kinds of problems (but mainly spacing). They need what Dragic brings.

DeRozan also isn't opting out unless you offer him multiple years. The Heat would be crazy to do that IMO.

Yeah- DeRozan is basically the really soft version of Jimmy. Their roles are so similar that I don’t think you could play them together. Whoever they add needs a 3P shot.

[bledredwine]

Lebron embodies everything that I can’t stand about the league today. When he teamed up with LA, I specifically told my friends that he’d suck this year but did it because he’d have Kawhi or Davis a year later. Now look. I also dislike his game- he struggles, barreling to the rim and then misses many at-rim shots or turns it over. He can’t hit freethrows or midrange shots.

I’m tired of excuses for his inability to close and the irrational goat talk. I’m tired of the whining and disrespect of other players. I love that he said “you’re in trouble” and then Jimmy lit him up. He’s 38-11 now in elimination games. Considering that he’s been a contender in the East for a long time, that’s not near the reputation that his fans give him.

This and my love for Jimmy is why I hope that LA loses.

[Ice Man]

I wrote this yesterday when you brought up DeRozan, but I disagree. DeRozan may be better than Dragic, but definitely not for Miami. DeRozan is way too similar to Butler on offense, which will cause all kinds of problems (but mainly spacing). They need what Dragic brings.

Hmmm. My apologies for missing that. I am not entirely sold. Goran is a score-first PG and DD has become a good passing wing, so they have ended up at the same place as playmakers, each creating about 6 assists per 36 minutes this season. I will grant that DeRozan isn't a 3-point shooter while Goran is ... maybe that's a problem. On the other hand, Herro, Robinson, Dunn, and Olynyk give the Heat some petty good range.

I can see the argument that DeRozan may want a longer contract than makes sense for Heat.

[RedBulls23]

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[Butler4thewin]

Man I will always wonder what butler at sg and another bigtime sf in the paint surrounded by 2 3 point range bigs and a 3 and d pg would of done

[Andi Obst]

I am not entirely sold. Goran is a score-first PG and DD has become a good passing wing, so they have ended up at the same place as playmakers, each creating about 6 assists per 36 minutes this season. I will grant that DeRozan isn't a 3-point shooter while Goran is ... maybe that's a problem. On the other hand, Herro, Robinson, Dunn, and Olynyk give the Heat some petty good range.

I don't even disagree on the playmaking part. DeRozan, like Jimmy, has improved a ton in that regard. But the fit with Jimmy is just awful. You can play Butler/DeRozan/Bam with 2 elite shooters and that's still too many non-shooters. My main issue with DeRozan in any context is that he always needs the ball in his hands to be effective and he's not good enough to justify that. For the Heat, having a guy who provides no off-ball value makes no sense to me since you still want Jimmy on the ball most of the time. I just don't see how DeRozan can improve this particular team, especially if he essentially replaces Dragic, although he certainly is a useful player.

[PrimzyBulls81]

Miami should keep everyone, especially Dragic and Crowder. They are very valuable to their team, system and to Spoelstra. They can squeeze in one more helpful good FA I think.

[TheStig]

Miami should keep everyone, especially Dragic and Crowder. They are very valuable to their team, system and to Spoelstra. They can squeeze in one more helpful good FA I think.

It's worth remembering that there are not really any good FA's outside of Davis, who likely resigns. So I would think guys like Crowder and Dragic who never made the finals before would be willing to take large 1 year deals. I could see them both coming back for 15 mill for the year and hitting FA in the bigger FA year after next year

[R3AL1TY]

I think it’s fair to say nobody is “worth” the supermax. It takes so much of your cap and flexibility to add players. Even Lebron has proven he can’t win without 1-2 other elite star talents and a load of ring chasers. You either have to have a preset deep roster with potential or an owner committed to the deep luxury tax or it’s a bust. So you have to acknowledge that you need to be really aggressive and “go for it” when you do have top-15 talent(s).

So really, you plan ahead and sign/draft/trade all the talent you needed before Jimmy’s supermax. The Bulls had 3 long years and off-seasons to make something happen. Instead they nervously twirled their thumbs at the idea of paying somebody other than Jordan or Lebron a super max. We now know they were basically banking on an another bargain rookie panning out: Niko, Portis, Snell, Valentine, Jerian, Payne. All terribly cheap and poor talent evaluations.

I agree it’s risky signing anybody to that contract, but fearing it 2-3 off-seasons in advance makes no sense considering the guy had top-10 analytics and low mileage. It was just an acknowledgement that they wasted 4 years of picks and signings with a junk coaching staff and didn’t know how to build a good team anymore. Also they didn’t really consider Jimmy’s willingness to recruit talent.

I agree that nobody is really worth the supermax from a team building perspective. Even during MJ's era, if he had gotten the money he deserved or even more, it would've been difficult for the FO to add key pieces, especially for the 2nd 3 peat. As for Jimmy's situation, GarPax basically gave up on the Thibs' era and whoever was left over from it. They figured why spend big money if the team was barely an 8th seed and the top free agent options weren't in their favor. Let's save and start a new era. But the problems that lingered were the injury bugs and the lack of a strong environment.

It's funny that the supermax was put into place to keep star players but it's actually forced more guys out. Cousins, Jimmy, Kemba all left because they wouldn't get it. Guys like KD, Leonard, Kyrie, PG passed it up. And the handful of guys who got it, it's been a mixed bag. Like Curry and Harden good, Wall and Westbrook bad.

Clearly I don't think it's working and has actually done more harm then good. Maybe they do 6 year deals instead of 5 for your own guy. But not the monster salary and raises.

Yep, for the most part, the players who are getting it are being stuck in bad situations with their teams not reaching far, not being the destination of choice for top free agents, and not having the right circumstances or luck to land the next big thing from the draft.

I wouldn't say that. Curry is in a good situation. Harden is also in a good situation. He's just not a playoff performer. The game has passed Russ by. And Wall has been injured.

Yeah, but when you compare those 2 + Lillard to guys like Westbrook, Wall, Walker, then you got those who left or got traded from their teams due to not being interested in the franchise anymore or the team underachieving with Cousins, KD, Leonard, CP3 and PG, the numbers aren't in the pro-supermax favor. Then when you throw in other guys who probably think they deserve this supermax too, but they're affected by another supermax player with Klay (warriors should still be good for a while), Beal, AD at the time with the Pelicans, and CJ, it's still hard seeing this type of contract keeping good teams intact for the long-haul due to the pyramid of money + ego. I think the NBA is just better off getting rid of the salary cap anyway, but they should keep the luxury tax at a high premium since top players still may not stay with their initial teams, but their initial teams can still have a premium budget to prevent from falling off completely. Plus, the fear of certain top players leaving their teams may not be as bad if the salary cap isn't around, especially if the team is a contender making good money.

[troza]

If everyone goes to the Lakers with salary cap, imagine without it... Instead of Lebron, Davis and some cheap vets this Lakers team would be much more strong.

I'm not good with those rules but for me a supermax would be more useful if a player got more money but counted way less for salary cap.

[Mech Engineer]

I think CJ McCollums, Bradley Beal will be very valuable this off-season. You can see that both Miami and the Lakers can use one of them. Even other young combo guards can be valuable. I am not sure about Oladipo in terms of his health but he is also valuable. These guys can be a great 3rd option. I also think Kemba Walker can be got easily as he didn't do well as the 2nd option behind Tatum. He is probably a good choice as a 3rd option.